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Japan’s G7 host city under fire for 'obscene and sexist' mascot

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Theodran

Member
I've been twice up to Mie this year (and going there again next month) and this is the first time I hear about this mascot. It's not very prominent on the Shima city website, either. I wonder if this is just another storm in a teacup?

When you exit the train in Toba city, the most prominent pearl industry city in Japan, you are greeted with a poster of a photo of three generations of ama girls - no sexual contents included.
 
Man, you guys really like showing your insecurity by constantly making fun of anime fans, huh.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but how does making fun of anime / anime fans = insecurity?

I mean let's be fair; anime has produced some very, very awkward/strange/downright obscene stuff. Even some of the more "tame" anime have highly questionable content.

It's not like people are bashing two girls / guys kissing or something else.
 

Spider from Mars

tap that thorax
plv5JOw.gif
 

vityaz

Member
Oh wow, was expecting the source of the complaints to be some foreign country. Interesting to see it coming from the Japanese, good stuff. They need more of this over there.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
oh jeez that mascot is not what i was picturing when reading the topic title lol.

Seems innocent and harmless enough to my eyes, but I guess the original divers don't like animafication or something ?
 
I don't have a dog in this fight, but how does making fun of anime / anime fans = insecurity?

I mean let's be fair; anime has produced some very, very awkward/strange/downright obscene stuff. Even some of the more "tame" anime have highly questionable content.

It's not like people are bashing two girls / guys kissing or something else.
image.php
 
oh jeez that mascot is not what i was picturing when reading the topic title lol.

Seems innocent and harmless enough to my eyes, but I guess the original divers don't like animafication or something ?

A group of 170 doesn't like it. That doesn't appear to be a majority of people there but it doesn't or shouldn't stop the town to take it seriously, perhaps some small changes are enough to make all happy.

It's basically a non news in a larger scale. Also Japan isn't a hive mind but can have quite differently opinions about even trivial things like in all other countries.
 

Boem

Member
Japan is fucking weird when it comes to stuff like this.

I always feel bad for fans of actual quality Japanese animation films, because it's heavily outnumbered by this kind of heavily sexualized/bordering on child pornography nonsense. It's just creepy.

I know there are a lot of fans of this kind of stuff on Gaf, and I'm sure they're decent people, but I just can't take that stuff seriously when you see pictures like that. 'High school culture is important in Japan' seems like a bit of a bullshit excuse. Sexualizing it like that just seems unhealthy, especially for young girls growing up, or the attitudes towards women from young men. It's indicative of a large amount of emotional immaturity in the entertainment industry.

Good to see more and more people seem to be getting sick of it in Japan as well though. Here's hoping the industry will move towards being a bit more healthy and progressive in the next couple of years.
 

Dennis

Banned
Japan is fucking weird when it comes to stuff like this.

I always feel bad for fans of actual quality Japanese animation films, because it's heavily outnumbered by this kind of heavily sexualized/bordering on child pornography nonsense. It's just creepy.

I know there are a lot of fans of this kind of stuff on Gaf, and I'm sure they're decent people, but I just can't take that stuff seriously when you see pictures like that. 'High school culture is important in Japan' seems like a bit of a bullshit excuse. Sexualizing it like that just seems unhealthy, especially for young girls growing up, or the attitudes towards women from young men. It's indicative of a large amount of emotional immaturity in the entertainment industry.

Good to see more and more people seem to be getting sick of it in Japan as well though. Here's hoping the industry will move towards being a bit more healthy and progressive in the next couple of years.

I always wondered how Japanese who aren't anime or manga fans view this kind of thing.
 

rpmurphy

Member
"verges on child pornography"

Lol. Sounds a bit like prudishness to me, since there isn't much to be obscene with the character art, unless that neckline or exposed knees are just too much.
 

faridmon

Member
She's actually a 10,000 year old goddess.

Lol

This is what I wanted to post!

Japan is fucking weird when it comes to stuff like this.

I always feel bad for fans of actual quality Japanese animation films, because it's heavily outnumbered by this kind of heavily sexualized/bordering on child pornography nonsense. It's just creepy.

I know there are a lot of fans of this kind of stuff on Gaf, and I'm sure they're decent people, but I just can't take that stuff seriously when you see pictures like that. 'High school culture is important in Japan' seems like a bit of a bullshit excuse. Sexualizing it like that just seems unhealthy, especially for young girls growing up, or the attitudes towards women from young men. It's indicative of a large amount of emotional immaturity in the entertainment industry.

Good to see more and more people seem to be getting sick of it in Japan as well though. Here's hoping the industry will move towards being a bit more healthy and progressive in the next couple of years.

Meh, while the majority of Animation is filled with this moe shit, there are few that comes from Japanese Animation studios that are drawn maturely and have Great, atmospheric storytelling. Too bad they don't make money because Moe is what sells, that is also the reason why you get series such as Working and Shirabako drawn as they are, because cute artstyle is what sells.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
"verges on child pornography"

Lol. Sounds a bit like prudishness to me, since there isn't much to be obscene with the character art, unless that neckline or exposed knees are just too much.

her position and demeanor are more "oh are you looking at me? *blush*" then they are "look at me I'm a pear diver whooo!" which miiiight have been the way to make a mascot like this work.

Either way the backstory is a bit gross and I don't particularly think calling it "sexist" is out of line, I'm fine supporting the actual workers in the industry who don't like it
 

Arthrus

Member
oh jeez that mascot is not what i was picturing when reading the topic title lol.

Seems innocent and harmless enough to my eyes, but I guess the original divers don't like animafication or something ?

Would you represent male divers with a sexy teenage boy who is trying to find a girlfriend?

The cartoon image of a voluptuous 17-year-old aspiring “ama” diver in search of a boyfriend drew fire from the real divers, who traditionally harvest seaweed, clams and, in some areas, pearls.

That's some textbook sexism there.

A large group of women, who the mascot is supposed to represent, feels it is clearly sexualized. They are right. The huge breasts pushed outward, the legs showing, presented as 17 years old, everything about the pose.... The women should not be objectified by the mascot that represents them.
 

Boem

Member
"verges on child pornography"

Lol. Sounds a bit like prudishness to me, since there isn't much to be obscene with the character art, unless that neckline or exposed knees are just too much.

You can't see how her pose, look and weirdly specific backstory (underage high school girl looking for a boyfriend) is problematic?

I wasn't saying that this was the worst I have ever seen (the sad and troublesome fact of it is that there's a lot of this stuff out there, and often even creepier than this), but I do think it's mindboggling how a group of adults approved this to promote an industry towards other adults. Try to imagine an actual 17 year old girl in that exact pose, used to promote the exact same thing. There would be a shitstorm, and rightfully so.

People often say 'it's just Japanese culture' as if that excuses anything. It's not some sort of magical place in fairyland. It's just another country full of people like you and me. Accepting and respecting another culture doesn't mean you shouldn't be critical of certain problematic aspects of it. Like I said before, my main concern is in the message this sends to young women and men. It sends a very warped and unhealthy view of reality. When you consider that media spreading these kinds of images is also made and consumed by actual adults, that's certainly a sign that there are - as often reported - some big societal issues there.

Like some other user said, I'm very interested how your average Joe in Japan looks at this kind of stuff, or if the large presence of this is overstated by its presence on the (western part) of the internet.
 

rpmurphy

Member
her position and demeanor are more "oh are you looking at me? *blush*" then they are "look at me I'm a pear diver whooo!" which miiiight have been the way to make a mascot like this work.

Either way the backstory is a bit gross and I don't particularly think calling it "sexist" is out of line, I'm fine supporting the actual workers in the industry who don't like it
Yeah, the backstory they could do with rework lol. The character art is attractive to me, but anyway, if they don't like the design and how it portrays them, that's definitely a valid reason to protest. It is their city and business after all. I wonder what the need was for this mascot in the first place though.
 
So after reading some articles. The main point of the group appears that a 17 years old girl is a bad way to represent such a proud but also dangerous profession.
Though the opinions under the divers are divided about it. The place has a community of 250 divers and 100 of them support the petition so her design will most likely change, though the design and character is quite popular and successful around the place.

But damn at all the projection and just using that news bit as platform for some unrelated rant.
 
"verges on child pornography"

Lol. Sounds a bit like prudishness to me, since there isn't much to be obscene with the character art, unless that neckline or exposed knees are just too much.

Child porn is too much. But what's on display here is embarrassing. Big tits, a sexually submissive pose (submissive poses are the most common theme I see with female anime characters) and then her stupid story. Like I said before, leave that stuff off the table.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Yeah, the backstory they could do with rework lol. The character art is attractive to me, but anyway, if they don't like the design and how it portrays them, that's definitely a valid reason to protest. It is their city and business after all. I wonder what the need was for this mascot in the first place though.
I mean, you do find it attractive but do you see how the art is sexualized?
So after reading some articles. The main point of the group appears that a 17 years old girl is a bad way to represent such a proud but also dangerous profession.
Though the opinions under the divers are divided about it. The place has a community of 250 divers and 100 of them support the petition so her design will most likely change, though the design and character is quite popular and successful around the place.

But damn at all the projection and just using that news bit as platform for some unrelated rant.
Sexism also seems to be a complaint if the protesters
 

Crocodile

Member
Obscene? LOL ok and I don't even mean that in context of "there's worse stuff out there" like I just don't see how this remotely reaches that threshold.

However, for a mascot supposed to represent a group of older female divers, this seems like a complete mismatch. I can understand why they want it changed and it seems weird to me that this was ever created to represent them. Like clearly someone just straight wasn't thinking. This is stupid and a total mismatch so I think its cool they want it changed. Calling it gross and obscene is a pretty big stretch and feels click-baity unless I'm missing something here.
 

Boem

Member
So after reading some articles. The main point of the group appears that a 17 years old girl is a bad way to represent such a proud but also dangerous profession.
Though the opinions under the divers are divided about it. The place has a community of 250 divers and 100 of them support the petition so her design will most likely change, though the design and character is quite popular and successful around the place.

But damn at all the projection and just using that news bit as platform for some unrelated rant.

The article is about the sexism present in the picture, as well as the inappropriateness of her age. This certainly isn't the first time that a story like this has come out. That's what the discussion generally seems to be about. I don't see anything in this thread that seems unrelated.

It's fine to disagree, but dismissing points made by others that don't fit with what you feel about an issue as unrelated (or a rant for that matter) seems a bit much.
 
I mean, you do find it attractive but do you see how the art is sexualized?

Sexism also seems to be a complaint if the protesters

I have no idea what you are trying to say. But most artworks of her is done in chibi style so more cute than sexy. So they could just scrap that one picture in OP and everyone should be happy if that is the problem of the group.

But the group has more a problem with having a young girl as mascot character than all the social critical stuff you guys are talking about.
 

collige

Banned
We did it guys, we finally found the single piece of real life clothing that comes in underneath and clings to each boob to give definition the way every anime girl's shirts, blouses, combat gear, "traditional costumes etc do

And yet they don't use it for the design for some reason. The design really is uninspired in the laziest way possible.
 

rpmurphy

Member
I mean, you do find it attractive but do you see how the art is sexualized?
Sure, the pose of the character is suggestive and I can see how it can make people uncomfortable and leaves a bad initial impression. Given that this is a human mascot though, I would assume that there would be other art that would follow that would be of normal scenarios (being a bit too optimistic, I know, considering the first picture).
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I have no idea what you are trying to say. But most artworks of her is done in chibi style so more cute than sexy. So they could just scrap that one picture in OP and everyone should be happy if that is the problem of the group.

But the group has more a problem with having a young girl as mascot character than all the social critical stuff you guys are talking about.
Citation? Because I also read a handful of other articles and "obscene" came up as much as "dangerous"
 

Boem

Member
I have no idea what you are trying to say. But most artworks of her is done in chibi style so more cute than sexy. So they could just scrap that one picture in OP and everyone should be happy if that is the problem of the group.

But the group has more a problem with having a young girl as mascot character than all the social critical stuff you guys are talking about.

I think you're willfully trying to dismiss an important part of the discussion here. There are actual quotes in the article about how the protesters find the sexist nature of the picture problematic. Me and some other posters also think there is something uncomfortable about how sexist and widespread this kind of imagery can be. Why shouldn't we be allowed to discuss that?

Again, you might not agree that it is sexist, you might find the idea that some people think it is uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean you can claim it's a non-existent issue. There are clearly people here and among the protesters who think so. Trying to claim a different point of view doesn't exist doesn't mean it really doesn't exist - it's just an attempt to silence it.

For the record, before this gets out of hand: I'm not trying to say you're sexist or into child porn or whatever. I'm sure there are ways to appreciate this kind of art without that context. But for a lot of people that context is there, and therefore it turns into a real issue.
 
Citation? Because I also read a handful of other articles and "obscene" came up as much as "dangerous"

I'm on my phone with some technical problems but you could read the articles in Japantoday and Japantimes about that topic.

That obscene and pedo statement is basically a result of that quote of the old woman. And doesn't appear in all other quotes but if you google the other artworks that image in OP is really the worst you can get the others are all way tamer in that regard.
 
I think you're willfully trying to dismiss an important part of the discussion here. There are actual quotes in the article about how the protesters find the sexist nature of the picture problematic. Me and some other posters also think there is something uncomfortable about how sexist and widespread this kind of imagery can be. Why shouldn't we be allowed to discuss that?

Again, you might not agree that it is sexist, you might find the idea that some people think it is uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean you can claim it's a non-existent issue. There are clearly people here and among the protesters who think so. Trying to claim a different point of view doesn't exist doesn't mean it really doesn't exist - it's just an attempt to silence it.

For the record, before this gets out of hand: I'm not trying to say you're sexist or into child porn or whatever. I'm sure there are ways to appreciate this kind of art without that context. But for a lot of people that context is there, and therefore it turns into a real issue.

I didn't claim anything. I'm not even against the opinion of the group but I'm only saying that you guys and the divers are fighting different wars.
 

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
I don't have a dog in this fight, but how does making fun of anime / anime fans = insecurity?

I mean let's be fair; anime has produced some very, very awkward/strange/downright obscene stuff. Even some of the more "tame" anime have highly questionable content.

It's not like people are bashing two girls / guys kissing or something else.

Considering how you are attacking supposed anime fans who'd defend this - people who simply don't even exist in this thread -, yeah, it does.

The need to lash out with ad hominen towards people who aren't even here is pretty telling. It's basically an anime hater circlejerk at this point.
 
Im betting two pages unless someone brings out, without anyone asking, the difference between pedophile, ephebophile and hebephile. The user might or might not have an anime icon.
I had to look up what a hebephile was and I feel worse for humanity as a result, so thanks for that.
 

Log4Girlz

Member
Traditionally they used to dive topless. I've seen some very interesting classic photo journals of them. But I'm just adding an interesting part of that history, I'm not condoning the immature character.
 

Zoe

Member
Where is the website for that character? This is the one on the city's official site:

VPlAImq.jpg

Shimako-san
 
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