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[Opiate]

How is it bullshit?

Axis or Allies, both did horrific crimes.

That is true. Further, both Republican and Democratic politicians do bad things, both police officers and criminals have done terrible things, and both Hitler and Obama have done something nice for someone else.

 

[wsippel]

Human experimentation is a special kind of evil but those rocket scientists were still responsible for a lot of human suffering as the V-2s were specifically used against cities. About 2750 Londoners were killed in the rocket attacks and massive swathes of the city were reduced to rubble on top of the massive damage inflicted by the Luftwaffe a few years previously. My family are all Londoners so I have heard plenty of stories.

By that logic, everybody involved in the Manhatten Project should have died in jail. And basically every engineer developing strategic bombers and most bombs, especially that truly evil delayed fuse shit the British loved to use to kill as many civilians as possible. All those weapon systems had no or very little use outside of eliminating civilian targets.

 

[not_so_special]

America & Britain committed a lot of war crimes during WWII that they were never prosecuted or convected of.
Try learning history from something other than a Hollywood movie.

im pretty sure i know more of history than you..believe me

 

[not_so_special]

I don't think German rocket scientists did anything remotely as bad as unit 731.

i have red that the people of unit 731 were protected by the american gov?

Having been granted immunity by the American Occupation Authorities at the end of the war, Ishii never spent any time in jail for his crimes and died at the age of 67 of throat cancer.

yo..they were protected by the american authorities

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread725825/pg1

 

[Upsidedown Fuji]

Fresh news on this topic just dropped: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/02/09/national/nhk-governors-back-abe-agenda-minutes-reveal/

Apparently the higher ups of NHK are in lock step with Abe. Good grief.
I wonder if anything will actually come off it, probably not. In other sad news the new Tokyo mayor just elected this evening is also backed by Abe and has quite a history of gaffes and scandals of his own. Sometimes I wish I didn't care about this stuff. My life would be so much easier.

 

[BumblebeeCody]

They can do that?

 

[Guileless]

Deal with your own shit first. And perhaps Japan will take a lesson then.

I can't imagine many people who received a BA in the US think imperialism isn't dealt with sufficiently, and I think it's the same in Europe and Canada. And even if it weren't, what problem are we solving by ignoring Japanese nationalism and the extreme reactions it provokes in its neighbors?

 

[Delusibeta]

the truth is probably somewhere in the middle

As a general rule, if a statement contains the phrase "the truth is somewhere in the middle", then the statement is bullshit.

 

[dan2026]

Why the fuck does anytime someone talks about something bad one country did, some moron has to derail it with 'you can't talk, because your country did xyz!'

Maybe we should ignore all problems ever, because nobody is a perfect saint.
Absolute halfwits.

 

[Dead Man]

That is true. Further, both Republican and Democratic politicians do bad things, both police officers and criminals have done terrible things, and both Hitler and Obama have done something nice for someone else.

Hah

 

[Kapsama]

I can't imagine many people who received a BA in the US think imperialism isn't dealt with sufficiently, and I think it's the same in Europe and Canada. And even if it weren't, what problem are we solving by ignoring Japanese nationalism and the extreme reactions it provokes in its neighbors?

Japan has apologized several times to Korea for instance. When has the US apologized to the Natives or to Vietnam? Philippines? When has France apologized for turning Haiti into a shithole? When have they apologized for killing 1.5 million Algerians in the 60s? When has the UK apologized for torturing Obama's grandfather in Kenya?

Not only have they not apologized to anyone each of those countries is still killing people in the thirld world on a daily basis today. When was the last time Japan took over a neighbor?

If you're concerned about those things, why not start a new thread to raise awareness and encourage discussion about them? I don't understand people coming in to a thread about a present issue and saying "What about these guys or those guys?" By that logic, nobody is ever allowed to raise objections about anything because they should engage in some self-criticism first.

There are some atrocities that I have never heard of until I read about them in the news in the last couple years, some via GAF. It would be more enlightening to make a thread explaining what happened rather than to come into another thread and say "Yo, nobody ever talks about this!"

Well I would if I cared enough and had an agenda to push. The problem here isn't Neogaf threads though. It's Western media covering everyone's dirty laundry but their own.

Hooray whataboutism!
I promise you to give equal shit to any colonial apologist in the UK, okay?
It's much healthier to condemn all atrocities than to condemn non.

Call it what you want. The West needs to stop their propaganda mongering and deal with their own shady past first. Otherwise there is a credibility gap.

No one even really talks about what the belgium did in the congo. Up there with the greatest atrocities in history but hardly anyone talks about it compared to japan or other countries.

Why would they? Belgium is so sweet and innocent. Did you know they make waffles and chocolate? So adorable. (besides kill blacks if you want to get away with it)

 

[Amir0x]

and both Hitler and Obama have done something nice for someone else.

...well...now that you mention it... :O

 

[FrostuTheNinja]

Just heard the term "Abe-nomics" the other day.

Yeah.

 

[Amir0x]

Japan has apologized several times to Korea for instance. When has the US apologized to the Natives or to Vietnam? Philippines? When has France apologized for turning Haiti into a shithole? When have they apologized for killing 1.5 million Algerians in the 60s? When has the UK apologized for torturing Obama's grandfather in Kenya?

Link

"The United States, acting through Congress," states Sec. 8113, "apologizes on behalf of the people of the United States to all Native Peoples for the many instances of violence, maltreatment, and neglect inflicted on Native Peoples by citizens of the United States;" and "expresses its regret for the ramifications of former wrongs and its commitment to build on the positive relationships of the past and present to move toward a brighter future where all the people of this land live reconciled as brothers and sisters, and harmoniously steward and protect this land together."

Senator Dan Inouye, a World War II Medal of Honor winner and Hero of the famed 442nd Regimental Combat Team, said:

“In our early days as a nation, we entered into treaties with Native Americans pursuant to the provisions of the U.S. Constitution that recognize them as sovereigns. But later, we abandoned the path of an honorable course of dealings, and turned to war. Thousands lost their lives through these battles and horrific massacres. The native population everywhere was decimated.
“Forced marches to relocate the native people from their traditional homelands to areas west of the Mississippi in the dead of winter cost thousands of more lives…. The treaties could have signaled a return to a course of honorable dealings … had the United States not proceeded to break provisions in every single one of the treaties….”

Senator Daniel Akaka, another World War II veteran, said:

“In many ways, the United States broke these treaties and engaged in acts of war against our Native peoples, taking lands by force, displacing Native peoples and leaving them in poverty and suffering. At times, the United States informed indigenous, Native peoples that their continued residence on their original lands would be considered an act of war against the U.S. and if they did not leave, U.S. military forces commenced wars, imprisoned and killed Native leaders and people, and tragically at places like Sand Creek and Wounded Knee massacred Native men, women and children.”

Senator Brownback, now the Governor-elect of Kansas, said:

“What this amendment achieves is recognition, honor, and the importance of Native Americans to this land and to the United States in the past and today and offers an official apology for the poor and painful path the U.S. Government sometimes made in relation to our Native brothers and sisters by disregarding our solemn word to Native peoples. It recognizes the negative impact of numerous destructive Federal acts and policies on Native Americans and their culture, and it begins — begins — the effort of reconciliation.”

At the time of its passage, U.S. Representatives Kildee, Cole, Napolitano, Honda, Boren, Walz, Reyes, Richardson, Kennedy, Teague, McCollum, Baca, and Herseth-Sandlin wrote to the President in favor of the Resolution, and said:

“Indian tribes aided George Washington and his troops during the American Revolution, and through more than 370 treaties, our Nation pledged to protect Indian tribes and Indian lands. Yet as a Nation, we later … engaged in warfare to seize Indian lands, destroyed Indian villages, and thousands lost their lives through battles and horrific massacres, at places like Sand Creek and Wounded Knee. Many Indian leaders, Osceola, Mangus Colorado, Crazy Horse, Sitting Bull and many others died at the hands of, or in the custody of, Federal officers and agents. Thousands died on forced marches from their homelands….”

Link, Obama signs Native American Apology Resolution

We have issued apologies toward the natives of Hawaii, and of course the first sin of slavery.

We have not yet apologized for Vietnam because not enough time has passed for that sort of thing, and there is still intense scholarly debate over who is culpable and for what crimes. So it'll take time to get there too.

Of course all this says is that talk is cheap. What is the action? Your larger point over us still attacking third world countries is more "on the nose", but naturally it's not as simple as some of these past crimes which were black & white. We got rid of a bad individual in Saddam Hussein, for example, and left after so many years, returning the country to its people. Whilst I would never agree the war was right, and would point to countless abuses during the war, compared to past wars they were relatively restrained and not wide spread. I mean, that's just the statistical truth behind it. That does not make it right, but I think you'll find apologies for such thing a bit harder to extract. They are not at all equivalent to the Nanking Massacre, for example, or even remotely as clear cut.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Just heard the term "Abe-nomics" the other day.

Yeah.

What about it? It's referring to his economic policies. Kind of like "Obamacare" refers to the Affordable Care Act.

 

[hirokazu]

As a general rule, if a statement contains the phrase "the truth is somewhere in the middle", then the statement is bullshit.

In this thread: people who can't accept their own views may be skewed and that there're views different from their own.

What part of that post do you actually have a problem with? You just pointed out a figure of speech rather than flaws in my statement.

I wonder if anything will actually come off it, probably not. In other sad news the new Tokyo mayor just elected this evening is also backed by Abe and has quite a history of gaffes and scandals of his own. Sometimes I wish I didn't care about this stuff. My life would be so much easier.

Whelp, this is why I hold the Japanese people ultimately responsible for all this. Despite all this going down, they're still OK about voting in more nut bags.

 

[Kapsama]

Link





Link, Obama signs Native American Apology Resolution

We have issued apologies toward the natives of Hawaii, and of course the first sin of slavery.

We have not yet apologized for Vietnam because not enough time has passed for that sort of thing, and there is still intense scholarly debate over who is culpable and for what crimes. So it'll take time to get there too.

Of course all this says is that talk is cheap. What is the action? Your larger point over us still attacking third world countries is more "on the nose", but naturally it's not as simple as some of these past crimes which were black & white. We got rid of a bad individual in Saddam Hussein, for example, and left after so many years, returning the country to its people. Whilst I would never agree the war was right, and would point to countless abuses during the war, compared to past wars they were relatively restrained and not wide spread. I mean, that's just the statistical truth behind it. That does not make it right, but I think you'll find apologies for such thing a bit harder to extract. They are not at all equivalent to the Nanking Massacre, for example, or even remotely as clear cut.

Alright let's cut the US Vs You crap. I'm not Japanese. I'm an American citizen.

As for the Obama apology, it's a good start. But the fact that it only happened in 2009 is embarrassing. Still waiting on the European apologies.

As for the Imperialism of today, the only way that it's not black and white is that any nation in the US's position would and has done the same. But to try to spin 1 million civilian deaths in Iraq into something positive is laughable. Or attacking wedding parties and other peaceful gatherings with drones from Yemen to Pakistan which is still going on, on a daily basis.

As for the Nanking massacres, the US activities against the Natives, Filipinos and Vietnamese are very much the equivalent, thank you.