One of the reasons, yes. Japan has a history playing the victim card at every possible turn when it comes to the nukes while simultaneously downplaying/dodging all of its own sins.I think this shows why China hates Japan.
It's disgusting.
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Japan is using NHK to rewrite its role in WWII
- Thread starter richiek
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It's disgusting.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
America & Britain committed a lot of war crimes during WWII that they were never prosecuted or convected of.
Try learning history from something other than a Hollywood movie.
because that implies that they are equivalent. I would sincerely hope that no one believes this
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Its about the same as all the dumbshits in the US who go around wearing Ernesto "Che" Guevara shirts.
Pretty much in any country you will find fucking idiots who dont know history from their own ass.
You can take your avatar assumptions and shove 'em where the sun don't shine. I'm just as interested in Japan's geopolitical and internal nationalistic bullshit as anyone in this thread.
The allies didn't commit crimes on the scale of the axis of course, but the allies weren't squeaky clean
Turning a blind eye to war crimes doesn't solve anything, Japan.
Interesting how China loves to point at Japan for denying Nanking, yet they continue to stand their ground on Tibet and the Tibetan uprising.
Interesting how China loves to point at Japan for denying Nanking, yet they continue to stand their ground on Tibet and the Tibetan uprising.
not_so_special
Banned
its bullshit because is a very malelevolent argument used to just justify the acts of the axis powers..
war is war...but you seriously want to compare the way the american or the english army behave with the german or japanese troops on china and russia?
Hilarious considering imperial japan was just aping what it perceived as it's right after watching the west run roughshod all over Asia. The west shouldn't get to aggressively colonize and exploit Asia...we should!
So what is the Allies equivalent of the Holocaust?
airmangataosenai
Member
There will always be this sort of nationalist movement in Japan, but I'd say that it is overstated how accepted it actually is by the majority.
They like to stir up the pot a lot.
They get pissy when Japan gets a new naval ship, while at the same time they are rapidly building up their own armed forces.
China blasts Japan for visiting a shrine that out of 2 million, 1000 or so are war criminals yet on their yuan contains a man responsible for mass genocide
It's sad to see the direction Japan is heading towards under Abe. I love Japan but I've had an active boycott against travelling there since Abe won his second term. Despite most people seemingly apathetic towards politics in Japan, it is the Japanese people's responsibility to vote in somebody not batshit insane at the earliest opportunity possible.
Given the rising economic might and influence of China in Asia, I cannot see the actions of the Abe government being beneficial to Japan's economic future, especially given the quagmire they're currently in. Abe had pledged to restore stability to the Japanese economy and so far, he has done shit all towards that goal but a shitload of attempts to implement his ultra-right-wing agenda.
I can't see how anything his done to implement his agenda is doing any good for Japan's long-term security either. All it has done so far is piss off what may be their most important regional partners in the decades to come and seeded uncertainly for Japan's future.
Abe is certainly treading a dangerous path for Japan.
I also wonder where all the posters went who gave unequivocal support for Japan in any territorial disputes between Japan and China or Korea in the other threads. Also those who immediately endorsed Abe's attempt to end Japan's military pacifism citing it as necessary to defend against China, despite the fact that they already have adequate SELF DEFENCE FORCES and America readily on their side.
Given the rising economic might and influence of China in Asia, I cannot see the actions of the Abe government being beneficial to Japan's economic future, especially given the quagmire they're currently in. Abe had pledged to restore stability to the Japanese economy and so far, he has done shit all towards that goal but a shitload of attempts to implement his ultra-right-wing agenda.
I can't see how anything his done to implement his agenda is doing any good for Japan's long-term security either. All it has done so far is piss off what may be their most important regional partners in the decades to come and seeded uncertainly for Japan's future.
Abe is certainly treading a dangerous path for Japan.
I also wonder where all the posters went who gave unequivocal support for Japan in any territorial disputes between Japan and China or Korea in the other threads. Also those who immediately endorsed Abe's attempt to end Japan's military pacifism citing it as necessary to defend against China, despite the fact that they already have adequate SELF DEFENCE FORCES and America readily on their side.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Yes, total war is not squeaky clean. The Allies could certainly have been "nicer", suffered additional casualties, and taken longer to defeat the Nazis and Imperial Japan as they murdered their way through Europe and Asia before rebuilding the societies and ensuring they became prosperous and peaceful. Hollywood doesn't tell you that.
Soyongdori
Member
Both Russia and japan going back to their old ways.
I knew this was gonna happen eventually.
I knew this was gonna happen eventually.
Certainly not, but what's the actual point you have though in relation to the topic
I don't think neither Fritz, you and I are in any disagreement on this case, it's just that I think you're falsly interpreting Fritz' statement as an example of patriotism. When he said "efforts made by this country" he didn't necessarily mean efforts done by the government or a vast majority of the population, but just people in Germany that thought it was just to paint these crimes as what they are.
No shit. No one would argue this. Like I said, saying that "both sides were horrific in WWII" is wrong because it implies equivalence. That's why its bullshit.
Bububu Mao was in Civilization! It's not like the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution were two of the greatest tragedies in human history
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Exactly
Its mostly the old farts who need to die off that are really the nationalistic ones and the neets on 2ch that have nothing better to do. The younger generation are pretty disconnected from not only history but politics in general. As in they dont give a fuck usually. Which of course is part of the problem.
Interesting how you like to redirect a topic about Japan to lay blame on China.
This is like if people of influence in Germany started denying the Holocaust and then you come in and say "Oh, pot is calling kettle black! What about all the bad things Russia and America have done since the end of the war!"
Tallshortman
Member
It's bullshit because it's some straight false equivalency nonsense. Besides, the way the allies treated the japanese in comparison was a cake walk. Most of the bad treatment allies gave was on the eastern front.
But like it's been said before, there is always a GAF defense force for everything.
Soyongdori
Member
Difference is that the Axis were the aggressors.
So you could sorta say "they had it coming" to their nations. Soviet's rape of Berlin was the reaction to the mass Russian deaths during Operation Barbarossa committed by the Nazis.
I'm sure the Chinese are about as thrilled to have Mao on every single one of their banknotes as we are to have Andrew Jackson on ours, but there is a clear difference between civilians using state-authorized currency and political figures honoring shrines of war criminals. Stop being silly.
No it doesn't mean that all. War crimes should not be erased or forgotten just because the other army did worse. The idea that the rape of German and Japanese women should just be ignored or not given equal recognition is a sick and misogynist one. None of the women of any country had any say in what happened in WW2 (or any war). It was a war started by men, waged by men with crimes committed by men. Women were just passengers, treated like plunder by men if they were unlucky to be in an occupied country.
No shit I thought it was just the Soviets that raped after the Battle of Berlin.
“Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster..." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Definitely. The fact is that a large majority in Japan are totally apathetic and disinterested in the politics of their country. They just want to see their economy pick up and restored to it's former glory, so the government has been a revolving door of leaders failing to fix that.
The problem is that you get crazies like Abe come in because of that and fill in prominent positions with people who share his ideology.
Soyongdori
Member
So you would think the Soviets would've just let it slide after massive amount of deaths in Russia that was responsible by the Germans? No. It was an eye for an eye to them.
I'm obviously speaking from human characteristic's side of view. This was still 20th century after all.
Yes, because I TOTALLY said that. Where the hell did I say that we should forget about all the bad shit that the allies did? And yes, it does mean that. Saying that both did awful shit in WWII implies equivalence unless stated otherwise. but I am not really surprised because from what Ive seen from your posts is that you don't understand distinctions at all.
Came here for this, not disappointed.
"They had it coming" implies they deserved it, which from any objective point of view, no they did not. Civilians caught up in war never deserve the awful things that can happen to them.
If you want to take "they had it coming" to a subjective point of view, it becomes easy for Japan to justify their atrocities in Korea and China as well.
You're as much a rape apologist as the Japanese nationalists are, you even use the same logic.
Soyongdori
Member
Big difference is that both China or Korea didn't invade Japan and killed their civilians or raped their women. That means Japan invaded China reactionary to something what China did to them something similar in the past.
Didn't the US let a lot of the war criminals involved in Unit 731 and related camps off in exchange for the data obtained from such experiments?
A lot of German scientists and engineers went to work for NASA too.
The reason so many people in China absolutely dislike Japan is because of the government's insistence to shove it down their throats at every opportunity (while painting the Communist party as the ones who saved China and brought it prosperity and stability). The propaganda machine is still pretty strong there.
The Chinese government is ultimately responsible for inciting many of the anti-Japanese riots and unrest that happened in the last few years. It's arguably as alarming as the extremist views we're seeing coming out of Japan.
Captain Tuttle
Member
If Japan tried to pull the stuff that they did in the 30's and 40's today they'd be ground into paste.
It's a shame that people with a voice and influence feel this way in Japan though. I feel like the Japanese in general have never really come to terms with how the war ended.
The winners aren't much better. Ask any Native American.
one of the MANY reasons, yes. I mean, China (and Korea) were Japan's (and Russia, UK etc.) bitches during the 19-20th century, especially China.I think this shows why China hates Japan.
Atraveller
Banned
It's well known that the Chinese government like to play the nationalist card, but all they did was just a gentle push, the attitude of the Japanese government did most of the job.
I don't think German rocket scientists did anything remotely as bad as unit 731.
Human experimentation is a special kind of evil but those rocket scientists were still responsible for a lot of human suffering as the V-2s were specifically used against cities. About 2750 Londoners were killed in the rocket attacks and massive swathes of the city were reduced to rubble on top of the massive damage inflicted by the Luftwaffe a few years previously. My family are all Londoners so I have heard plenty of stories.
There was a guy who was incredibly persistent about trying to collect those fees where I lived. Even with the lights off and the shades down, he'd still bang on the door for 10 minutes straight. I used to enjoy opening the door and pretending to not understand a single word he said...and then saying that I didn't speak English when he pulled out a pamphlet for foreigners, lol.
Then I got married and I think he got some money out of my wife once.
But I don't want them ground into paste
. That's why we don't need some angry dudes with inferiority complexes sitting on Japan's shoulder telling them to remember the "good old days when Japan was respected and feared". Someone might take that shit seriously and commit to policies we might all regret.I'm just pointing out that the allies also did some terrible things as well. It is bullshit to compare the scale of crimes of what the axis did to what the allies but it isn't bullshit to say that the allies weren't clean.
I'm in no way defending what the Japanese did during the war. I love Japan, but I will never come to their defense of what they did to millions of people (Unit 731, Rape of Nanking, etc)
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
Meanwhile in Britain, the government claims the BBC has an anti-government/left wing bias.
Nobody has said the Allies were clean, so if you didn't set out to achieve some kind of bullshit false equivalency, what exactly did you aim to do with your post?
Well I was responding to a guy who said theres a defense force for everything, implying I'm coming to the defense of what the Japanese did. (unless I read it wrong)
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