Brofist
Member
Replace Sega with Konami and you'd have a point.
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Japanese mobile game sales are now bigger than regular Japanese game + hardware sales
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Replace Sega with Konami and you'd have a point.
I have heard this version is not very good, but these types of devices will only get better as mobile gaming grows.
If traditional game companies discover that they can craft games with a guaranteed revenue stream for an audience that is both comparatively untapped and indifferent to the complaints of the hardcore gamers, you bet your ass they'll jump ship. No rationally acting company would do otherwise. Particularly public companies beholden to shareholders.
There's nothing preventing companies from making good games (subjectively speaking) for mobile devices. But if consumers are indicating with multi-million monthly revenue numbers that they're willing to pay for shitty IAP driven 'gameplay', you can expect a lot more of them.
Even here on GAF, bastion of gaming purity (cough), you'll see plenty of people bemoaning their weakness as they purchase a bunch of shittily overpriced DLC for some game or another. Extend that behavior to a whole different breed of consumer who have been raised on their mobile games demanding payment as a matter of course and it's easy to see where Candy Crush or Puzzle & Dragons numbers come from.
But more interesting to me is what it means for series that could potentially end up as a 'normal' handheld game. Will we see cross platform releases? Or will they just straight up target ipad/android devices?
In a generation or two we're going to have pocket super computers on our phones, and at that point the limitations come down almost entirely to input mechanics and creativity, not raw horsepower (they're already at a point where a lot of what we consider to be traditional handheld games will work just fine on almost any phone, much less retro or old game rehashes/rereleases).
As long as there are billions of dollars to be made on traditional console and pc games, they're not going anywhere, but I'd expect every major publisher to have several devs working in the mobile space in the near future, if they don't already.
There's nothing preventing companies from making good games (subjectively speaking) for mobile devices. But if consumers are indicating with multi-million monthly revenue numbers that they're willing to pay for shitty IAP driven 'gameplay', you can expect a lot more of them.
Even here on GAF, bastion of gaming purity (cough), you'll see plenty of people bemoaning their weakness as they purchase a bunch of shittily overpriced DLC for some game or another. Extend that behavior to a whole different breed of consumer who have been raised on their mobile games demanding payment as a matter of course and it's easy to see where Candy Crush or Puzzle & Dragons numbers come from.
But more interesting to me is what it means for series that could potentially end up as a 'normal' handheld game. Will we see cross platform releases? Or will they just straight up target ipad/android devices?
In a generation or two we're going to have pocket super computers on our phones, and at that point the limitations come down almost entirely to input mechanics and creativity, not raw horsepower (they're already at a point where a lot of what we consider to be traditional handheld games will work just fine on almost any phone, much less retro or old game rehashes/rereleases).
As long as there are billions of dollars to be made on traditional console and pc games, they're not going anywhere, but I'd expect every major publisher to have several devs working in the mobile space in the near future, if they don't already.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Yeah.... industry is doomed.
Konami already creatively bankrupt before the mobage craze started, I don't think whatever they do with mobage release have any impact like Capcom and SE did.
They can look as good as they want but shitty control or lack of control will always equal shitty game play. As a formula.
Shitty Gameplay = shitty games
Touch screens are great in tandem with traditional controllers without them they are useless.
Precision Platformers >>>>>> Endless Runners
Full Control FPS >>>>>> Tap the bad guy to shoot bang bang
I just don't see the appeal the games we love will all die in the future because they aren't phones. I wanted the PSP to be a phone, Why the fuck isn't the PS Vita phone capable. I seen the writing on the wall long ago these machines must evolve.
childplease
Banned
Same will happen to console and console sales in the US and Europe.
Thats mildly surprising. The size of the feature phone market (which are basically the dumb phones of these days) even more so.
I'm not sure how long it'll take to replicate this feat elsewhere. With consoles still presumably being very popular in the west (which is not 100% certain) and the high hardware costs, maybe never. But I'm sure that mobile software sales will overtake regular console+handheld software sales sooner than later. Its probably already overtaken handhelds alone.
"Actual games". I believe a losing argument was once made about most of the popular Wii and DS games not being "actual games". The more things change...
I'm not sure how long it'll take to replicate this feat elsewhere. With consoles still presumably being very popular in the west (which is not 100% certain) and the high hardware costs, maybe never. But I'm sure that mobile software sales will overtake regular console+handheld software sales sooner than later. Its probably already overtaken handhelds alone.
"Actual games". I believe a losing argument was once made about most of the popular Wii and DS games not being "actual games". The more things change...
At least consoles evolved since current gen on they are media boxes.
Femmeworth
Banned
This will probably only get worse barring major changes in Japanese society.
UltraGunner
Banned
But man, looking at those numbers and its crazy how not even the 3ds is doing all that great. I starting the fear that 3ds and vita might be it for traditional handhelds. Once those are gone, its only a matter of time before consoles go and all the pubs with it. I can see PC still trudging along thanks to all the MMOs and F2P titles, but everyone else will either be dead or making mobile garbage. This is the future GAF, cherish your hobby while you still have time.
See my post above, lack of traditional controls on mobile platforms is easily fixable, the costs of developing "real games" on consoles is not.
They're choosing to run with their smartphones in hand.
Hopefully they'll make one that's good and has a D-Pad. Do a lot of mobile games support gamepads?
I have heard this version is not very good, but these types of devices will only get better as mobile gaming grows.
It's already happening.
People who are so sure ps4/xbone will resurrect console gaming are in denial.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Settle down chicken little, the sky isnt falling.
Snapshot King
Member
Well this topic sure is making my fearful for the industry. Least it points at the japanese games biz dying ASAP to chase mobile garbage that focuses more in IAP and gambling than actual games.
TheXfactor
Member
in Japan it is certainly doing great, 5 million each year is very good and considering this year it might get 6 million, and next year a revision(just guessing) its gonna be fine. Only way you could make it negative is If your gonna compare it to those two absolutely ridiculously years of the ds in 2006 and in 2007, but that was incredibly odd and surprising. It wasnt usual for handhelds at all. The next years after it went to 4 milllion, to 4 million, to 3 million.Its the rest of the consoles people are worried about, which are doing poorly
1st Course
Member
I have heard this version is not very good, but these types of devices will only get better as mobile gaming grows.
Apple introduced a standardized controller layout for iOS7 devices this past WWDC too:
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2013/06/15/apple-shows-ios-7-game-controller-plans/1
I can see this really taking off if the price was right and devs showed interest in it.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
3DS is doing just fine here. Not to mention MH4 in about a month from now will boost the numbers yet again. Pretty much all of the LE versions of the 3DS LL are sold out on the official capcom store.
3DS is doing its own thing and making money just fine here in Japan.
I'm gobsmacked that it's larger. Even though I'm bullish on mobile games, I wouldn't have guessed that. I'd wager that number probably doesn't include ad revenue either. There's immense growth potential in the market as feature phone users move over.
As a predominantly handheld gamer, I'm OK with it. Devs that would never have touched a traditional handheld are dipping their toes in, some more than others. Hardware is much nicer than non Sony handhelds and many high profile games are updated or designed to take advantage of newer hardware, just like with a PC. The account systems are rock solid and being able to play most games on my phone and tablet with a single purchase is fantastic.
There is a lot of work to be done though. F2P is currently too prevalent, and too aggressive. Larger scale projects are few and far between, though I trust this will slowly change. The standardised controllers with iOS7 are going to need something of a push if they're going to hold sway over what titles make their way to the App Store. Android needs to start putting up some serious competition because an iOS monopoly on gaming is good for nobody.
Overall though, I'm ok with this current trend. I get to play more handheld games than ever, pay less than ever and I don't even need to carry a separate device. I'm confident that the market is only in its infancy, and that many of the wrinkles will be ironed out as companies vie to attract 'core' gamers.
Still, I can't believe the numbers. Dizzying growth.
As a predominantly handheld gamer, I'm OK with it. Devs that would never have touched a traditional handheld are dipping their toes in, some more than others. Hardware is much nicer than non Sony handhelds and many high profile games are updated or designed to take advantage of newer hardware, just like with a PC. The account systems are rock solid and being able to play most games on my phone and tablet with a single purchase is fantastic.
There is a lot of work to be done though. F2P is currently too prevalent, and too aggressive. Larger scale projects are few and far between, though I trust this will slowly change. The standardised controllers with iOS7 are going to need something of a push if they're going to hold sway over what titles make their way to the App Store. Android needs to start putting up some serious competition because an iOS monopoly on gaming is good for nobody.
Overall though, I'm ok with this current trend. I get to play more handheld games than ever, pay less than ever and I don't even need to carry a separate device. I'm confident that the market is only in its infancy, and that many of the wrinkles will be ironed out as companies vie to attract 'core' gamers.
Still, I can't believe the numbers. Dizzying growth.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
what makes you think the 3DS isnt doing fine? especially in japan?
Eh, even if the console market shrinks a bit there's more than enough money to be made off of traditional games. That market isn't going away anytime soon.
Phone games being a thing doesn't mean traditional games are doomed. Maybe it's because i experienced well liked devs switching from PC to consoles at the beginning of the gen but sometimes you just have to let go. Others will take their place / it doesn't mean that they ONLY do mobile stuff.
Apple introduced a standardized controller layout for iOS7 devices this past WWDC too:
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2013/06/15/apple-shows-ios-7-game-controller-plans/1
I can see this really taking off if the price was right and devs showed interest in it.
Yeah, funny enough I would likely buy the version in that picture, it looks slim enough though i would be curious to see how long it would be though.
Its really only a matter of time imo until mobile phones are capable of doing pretty much everything a console can. Hell just make it so you can connect the phone to your television and its game over. As the tech gets better its only going to eat away at consoles overall.
Japanese game audience question themselves why do they buy games.
Do they buy games to enjoy them, or just to stay on the "trend" because everyone else is buying games as well?
Obviously later is the major audience, as I see my buddies around me in Japan. So once gaming falls of from their main interest, there will be a landslide. Actually this is what is happening now IMHO...
Do they buy games to enjoy them, or just to stay on the "trend" because everyone else is buying games as well?
Obviously later is the major audience, as I see my buddies around me in Japan. So once gaming falls of from their main interest, there will be a landslide. Actually this is what is happening now IMHO...
This post from the last thread has some crazy numbers in it. The software drop from DS to 3DS is savage.
I think the 3DS is doing reasonably, all things considered. It hasn't been eaten by the smartphone monster. That said, it certainly isn't in the 'Beast Mode' that many would have you believe.
CadetMahoney
Member
If it's true that the console market is shrinking and the mobile market is increasing that would be less worldwide sales for PS4 so more emphasis would be put on Europe and USA to make big numbers.
I was having a discussion with some friends about this earlier. It's already been possible to live a laptop-life for quite a few years if you didn't give a shit about high end PC gaming.
But at the rate parts are shrinking, we're not far off from being able to use a tablet and a docking station with a kb/mouse/monitor as your 'desktop' pc. Add hdmi out and a controller and you have your console as well. You can probably already pull this off if your PC computing needs are minimal.
A few years past that and you'll be able to use a phone in the same way as the laptop... and then the tablet.
I know at least one friend who had their desktop pc break, then their laptop and... they don't care. Their smartphone does what they need.
Its doing fine against the other traditional gaming devices, but against IOS/Android devices its it would likely be seen in the same light as the Vita is by many. Why own a dedicated handheld when I can have a phone that is superior in almost every way?
This is going to happen and when it does a mobile company will overnight have the largest "console" install base.
TheXfactor
Member
it doesnt include digital, and im talking all digital like pushmo streetpass, not just the main games.
and that was when the ds sold literally 8 million and 7 million in two years in japan, no crap its software sales were better. That was not normal then, it ended up selling half of that the next 3 years.
Software?
My main concern about mobile games becoming dominant has nothing to do with the hardware; mobile devices are becoming more sophisticated at a faster rate than any other category of device. I'm concerned about the business model that comes with mobile games; F2P with blatant overuse of IAP. Do you want a world where every game is just like Candy Crush Saga, where in app purchases constantly dangle over you like a sword of Damocles, and the concept of 'buying a game outright' is completely gone?
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
The industry is expanding so there is no stagnation.
Ignoring f2p abuse, you can't for a second think that companies don't want 'games as a service' over 'games as a product'
And consumers are apparently perfectly happy with it, soooooo
Digital wouldn't make much of a difference. Even the Vita can't fall back on that one and it seems to have a much higher digital adoption rate from what little info we have.
Why isn't that happening with the 3DS? There are more gamers out there than ever and the 3DS library looks stronger than the DS at first glance. Nintendo have thrown everything they've got at the 3DS these last two years.
I don't think you can explain away the hammered software sales on account of userbase. As you can see from the figures, the LTDs aren't as far apart as the software sales would suggest.
To be honest, 3DS sales probably need a thirty page thread of their own. For every two posters, you'll get three opinions on how the device is performing.
Can I get Breath of Fire 6 on a 3DS? With companies like Capcom, 2K, Ubisoft, EA, many of the larger indie projects, now setting their sights on mobile gaming the software will only get better. Xcom being on IOS is already evidence of this, and it did well according to 2k. Your never going to get rid of shovelware its on everything, but the game selection on mobile devices had only gotten better, and will continue to do so.
Oh, they absolutely do. Companies salivate over the idea of gamers literally holding an arcade in their pockets, more than willing to feed a non-stop series of quarters (and dollars) into their games.
However, I don't want that. I like the idea of paying a few bucks for a game and knowing that everything's included, and that the game mechanics weren't designed around the IAP, but instead were designed around a decent idea. Unfortunately, considering how many people I know who play Candy Crush Saga (and pay!), I accept that I'm in the minority.
Sure, but it's not there yet. At the moment it makes perfect sense to own a 3DS if you like playing on handhelds.
Also, i don't expect BoF 6 to be good. Sticking the big console brand on a game rarely leads to good mobile games in my experience. Most of the good stuff is original or a port.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
I really do think a lot of the problems stem from the type of unrealistic sales expectations which are put in games in the console scene here. Problem comes from those up top seeing the kind of numbers the big western blockbusters pull then expect the same thing from their own titles. When it doesnt shit either gets shelved or pushed off to a western developer in hopes of making something that would resonate with the market. That usually ends poorly.
So now its little effort in & big payout. Which apparently seems to be working.
In some ways its similar to companies who have made profits on the pachinko scene with developing the software behind the machines. Small team for production with big payouts.
Half would be a bit high given it's for 2012 as opposed to 2013.
sublimit
Banned
I wonder if this smartphone games boom ever going to crash just like fb games did.
I don't have a problem with this type of games personally,my problem is when i see console established IPs making the jumb to mobiles while their publishers ignore the fanbases who supported those IPs in the first place.
As someone else said in the other thread they are basically burning the image of those IPs just to gain some quick bucks and i think this will probably bite them in the ass a few years down the line.
I don't have a problem with this type of games personally,my problem is when i see console established IPs making the jumb to mobiles while their publishers ignore the fanbases who supported those IPs in the first place.
As someone else said in the other thread they are basically burning the image of those IPs just to gain some quick bucks and i think this will probably bite them in the ass a few years down the line.
Fiscal 2012 for Japan, through April 1st? Okay, then it's more like 1/6 of the 2+ billion, but that's still a crazy number that skews any conclusions you'd rationally draw under "normal" circumstances, and it is still going strong, so for the full 12 months of FY 2013, it will be a much larger part.
I do have to wonder sometimes if some peoples opinion of many mobile games has more to do with the platform itself then it does with the actual game. For instance I wonder how many will be quick to declare BOF6 a failure, but if Capcom released the exact same game on handhelds it would automatically be better.
Rpgs in general imo are a genre that can easily translate to mobile devices with little lost in the process. Im not aware of how othet Capcom mobile games have turned out though.
That's like comparing consoles to PCs and saying console gaming is dead since PCs sells billions.
BoF6 being on mobile isn't even the biggest issue about it for many people. I've never played BoF and even I realize that.