Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Dont think so considering that smartphones have become an important part of the lives of many people in "modern" society today. Unlike social platforms like facebook in your example.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Japanese mobile game sales are now bigger than regular Japanese game + hardware sales
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Dont think so considering that smartphones have become an important part of the lives of many people in "modern" society today. Unlike social platforms like facebook in your example.
TheXfactor
Member
Why dont you ask the GBA, or the Gameboy, or the PSP.
It's Because consoles sell differently, they peak interest differently, what if i told you "why didnt the 360 do incredibly well in america till later on its in life span, i mean the wii did it early on"
Price cuts, new models(which the 3ds hasnt even gotten a proper one yet), new games(pokemon releasing later this year, and monster hunter 4 for that matter), ect.. people get into things different. If the 3DS sells 5 million+ next year as well or even 6 million+(which it could easily do), how could you possibly tell me it didn't do great. It would have beaten the GBA in less than 4 years.
Im not even disagreeing the fact that phones will do well, in fact i even said nintendo should make a phone just for the fact that they could dominate the market in japan(rest of the world, different story, though they do have a strong brand worldwide), i just dont know how anyone could deny that the 3DS is doing great in japan. its on pace to being the 3rd best selling gaming device in japanese console gaming history.
Lets be honest with ourselves, IPs like BOF, Suikoden, Star Ocean, and the like were only supported by dedicated, but very small fanbases. You cant expect these companies to pour AAA budgets into games that wont even make enough back to break even.
Do they have to be AAA?
I don't think that's what's being asked
Well to be fair 2012 wasn't a spectacular year for Japanese hardware and software. Wii being completely abandoned, 3DS still struggling to gain steam, PS3 nearing the end of a console cycle and Wii U being launched with next to nothing interesting.
Mobile gaming is part of the future but I still don't believe it will be that for everyone. The competition will only get fiercer from now on.
Mobile gaming is part of the future but I still don't believe it will be that for everyone. The competition will only get fiercer from now on.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
People in Japan generally care more about gameplay than things like AAAAAAAAAAAAA budgets / graphics. So if companies here want to actually make money, they need to go back and focus on what the market wants. Usually when they try to make some halfassed hybrid in an attempt to appease the east and west, front mission evolved being one example showed a product that did fine for what it was domestically originally, but this so called rebranding just fell on its face in both markets.
PotionBleue
Member
Do these figures include revenue generated from ads?
According to many of the people who enjoy carrying the mobile gaming hate flags, only the highest of budgets will be allowed. If its not "AAA" then its garbage.
Many in this thread have laid claims that all games for mobile are garbage, but this is simply not the case, and is only claimed (imo) out of insecurity that mobile gaming continues to grow while consoles stagnate, and companies go bankrupt creating games for them.
A ton of people equip their smart phone devices with social media apps that are essentially free anyways. I don't think when some makes a phone purchase a primary consideration for them is gaming, that's just a bullet point. Anyways the reason why I think he speculated on the smart phone market imploding like Facebook games is because they both have the same audience
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
I think one problem is people are thinking that its encroaching on their territory, when all it is is really just a different base camp on the horizon. Those who are in the mobile market are those who just want quick time wasters that they have easy access too without having to invest in a secondary device. Gamers will still have all that gamers need for the most part so there really isnt any reason to be up in arms.
Besides when companies do make poor decisions to bring out a game in a series that has been on consoles and or handhelds out onto the mobile market where the chances of those who would purchase it would appreciate / know about its origins, instead of just making a whole new IP for that. Those kind of things I say let folks release the hounds on.
But the whole general freaking out over the mobile market itself is pretty silly.
While its the same, its still yet not the same as its an extra gateway people need to go through and does not always function the same as other apps depending on the games design. Proof of that is the market now and the majority of the titles making bank are ones that are not attached to a social platform these days, while there is candy crush as a current example of a social platform based game which is raking in cash with recent reports. Unless you consider the portal sites here in Japan for example Gree + Mobage a social platform, which in some extent it is. Facebook isnt essential to peoples daily lives. A smartphone on the other hand is, which is always in hand and accessible, sure facebook is too, but accessing that is done through said smartphone. Just because a user has a smartphone doesnt meant that they will be accessing facebook or have an account for that matter.
sublimit
Banned
In case of BoF and Suikoden they haven't even tried to make a console game this generation.Yes it is definitely a more riskier business but these were IPs that were established by the core gamer which is still there expecting those IPs to return in the same (but improved) form that he/she once loved them.
If they gave them a chance,ugraded the gameplay and invested some decent budget into marketing i think console versions of those games could also be profitable.
The problem is that publishers always prefer the easy and safe route of the quick buck and they don't give a shit about the legacy of those series.
IdreamofHIME
Member
Not sure about Nintendo, but I still think it was crazy for Sony not to put some kind of smart phone into the Vita.
I love my Vita as it is, but it's not setting the world on fire and I think it will have a pretty short life. Being a phone could have helped there.
I love my Vita as it is, but it's not setting the world on fire and I think it will have a pretty short life. Being a phone could have helped there.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Seeing how the terrible PSP release turned out of their latest suikoden game, Im glad that they didnt attempt a console version which would have put them even more in a hole with production costs. They seriously sent that game / series out to die with the lack of marketing and development effort.
Maneauleau
Member
I am not worried, mobile phone games and console games are not the same and will coexist no problem. Like reflex cameras and compact cameras, movies and TV series, books and digital books etc...
But of course video games companies will try to get a piece of that pie which can bring lots of money (because of the huge user base) for a small investment since mobile game development is much cheaper.
In that sense I really respect Nintendo for not going that road and I hope they never will (I don't mind them making apps though but no games).
But of course video games companies will try to get a piece of that pie which can bring lots of money (because of the huge user base) for a small investment since mobile game development is much cheaper.
In that sense I really respect Nintendo for not going that road and I hope they never will (I don't mind them making apps though but no games).
UltraGunner
Banned
Yeah cause the N-GAGE set the world on fire right? Or how about that xperia play? I can barely find one its selling so well.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
The PSP GO apparently was originally supposed to be a phone / game system combo from what I understand. But the whole phone part fell through and then they had the bright idea to release the GO when nobody wanted it for the most part. Sales numbers reflected that, hell even the stores didnt want it originally as they knew 1 it wasnt going to sell and 2 they cant make money off of software sales once said unit sold due to the nature of it being digital only.
petran79
Banned
its something more naughty......
sublimit
Banned
How many times we've seen this thing happening in the current gen?For example was it really the lack of interest by core gamers that killed both console and portable versions of Valkyria Chronicles or was it the terrible,inexistent marketing from Sega that killed that IP?
Nice generalization there. I'm not a fan of mobile games, that means I only accept AAA games? Bullshit. You do realize that there's middleground between typical low budget mobile and AAA budget... right?
3DS/Vita is a nice middleground for them. Plus, they have a reasonably-sized JRPG userbase. If BoF6 was developed for them (and is an actual traditional BoF game), there wouldn't be an outcry.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Number 2 went in the wrong direction, they fixed that with 3 and now we are just waiting to see if they will continue the series on the next platform once it takes off more (The PS Vita) which will have to be after the PS4 launches and the functionality of the VITA + PS4 comes into play more Sony hopes that it will drive the sales of the VITA more also.
In Japan more developers are warming up to the VITA itself including smaller ones since I think people are realizing the system isnt as bad as folks may make it out to be. That and with the PSP itself slowly winding down and the VITA will be taking its place as the "portable PS3" as how the PSP was the "portable PS2" it will get there and when that threshold is reached am sure we will potentially see another Valkyria game on the VITA.
That and well Sega just seems to be shit at marketing anything past the Ryu Ga Gotoku series which they drop a ton of money on. A lot of that has to do with Nagoshis grasp on the type of age group that surrounds the game too which is why the marketing while expensive is targeted specifically at the more mature crowd that has money apparently.
The title itself is a niche one which is why the move to the portable handhelds to allow for further development of the series and lower development costs was understandable. Its not like it hurt the games quality all that much unless one is a graphics whore. While as pretty as the PS3 version was, Im still glad that they made the decision to move the series as thanks to that we got 2 & 3 here.
Palette Swap
Member
I was wondering about that in the other thread, thanks for the clarification Nirolak. To be fair, comparing software only, I guess mobile passed "traditional" gaming last year.
It would be really interesting to have profitability data as well and to see how these markets are distributed, ie are these just a few top earners representing the market or is it evenly distributed? (for both markets)
It would be really interesting to have profitability data as well and to see how these markets are distributed, ie are these just a few top earners representing the market or is it evenly distributed? (for both markets)
This is incredibly saddening in a way. On the other hand, perhaps one day we really will be able to have a singular device that can do all our computing and gaming in a small portable package with excellent battery life.
Who am I kidding. That isn't now and it won't be for at least another 10-15 years.
Who am I kidding. That isn't now and it won't be for at least another 10-15 years.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Right now in Japan its Gree + DeNA (mobage) who are sitting at the top from what I understand. Due to the types of numbers their userbases have its one huge reason why most developers will want to go under them in an attempt to tap that existing market vs. trying to sell it on their own via own portal / app store for i products + android.
People thought the whole mobile gaming would go the way of the dodos when the anti kompu gacha regulations came into play but even though the companies took a huge hit, they are still going strong as is apparently and evolving to match the new laws that attempt to bind them.
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/TylerYork/20120525/171124/
another interesting article
http://www.serkantoto.com/2013/03/28/social-casino-games-japan-2/
Red Liquorice
Member
Are they abandoning the fanbases? Most people have smartphones these days it isn't an either/or purchase between a phone and a handheld. Why buy a dedicated £200 handheld that will get updated in 18months when your phone does so much more.
Can Nintendo really hold on to the handheld market in this climate? Who cares enough about Mario 17 and Mario Kart 9?
Not saying I like it or agree, but the situation is what it is. The best I can see coming of it is casuals will grow tired of games and the market will develop.
Would I have to buy a clown's jacket to fit that in my inside pocket? Brilliant(!)
Magicpaint
Member
That explains the shift we're gradually witnessing.
That1BlackGuy
Member
Like I said in the other thread it is just good business sense, especially if you're a large corporation. Mobile profits are coming in hand over fist and shows no sign of slowing down; the potential of garnering huge earnings for relatively smaller costs is just too good to ignore.
I will never understand why people consider smartphones and consoles together, it's obviously all marketing for smartphones.
I mean smartphones outsold dedicated photo/videocameras/mp3/consoles? An almost essential general purpose device and all its relative things sell more than absolutely unnecessary dedicated devices and relative things? SHOCKING NEWS!
When people will understand that smartphones and photo/videocameras/mp3/consoles have not the same target?
I mean smartphones outsold dedicated photo/videocameras/mp3/consoles? An almost essential general purpose device and all its relative things sell more than absolutely unnecessary dedicated devices and relative things? SHOCKING NEWS!
When people will understand that smartphones and photo/videocameras/mp3/consoles have not the same target?
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
nope, they just dont know how to manage their money correctly
DragonSworne
Banned
What is a feature phone?
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Basically the phones that existed before smartphones.
Heres the real definition.
Example
I'm not so sure.
It will be interesting to see how gaming evolves in the west. Remember the console manufacturers, like Nintendo did with the Wii, wanted to go after more casuals? Well they went to mobile. Young gamers have too. I think its just a matter of time.
I have seen some games pop up that honestly are great on mobile platforms, and lately I too have been playing them more and more. I expected this from others but not myself.
One thing that makes mobile phone gaming catch on - You have a gaming device that you can take anywhere. (Example work where a 3DS would be frowned upon, a phone is not heck it may even have been given to the person for work). Then if the person gets hooked, they pick it up at home as well instead of picking up their console controller or using a PC.
curlyfriski
Banned
This thread is about smartphone video game software sales being higher than traditional hardware and software sales combined, not smartphones in general selling more than consoles, so your complaint is irrelevant to the discussion here. To your point about the two not having the same target, 1) I doubt there isn't some overlap, 2) devs are going to pursue the more favorable market, so traditional gaming will still feel the pinch even if it's traditional consumer base remains.
MaschinenZimmer
Banned
Just wait GAF, in a few years people will talk about consoles like they talk today about arcades.
I said "and the relative things" meaning accessories, games etc.
If the install base is insanely bigger for OBVIOUS reasons(not for gaming merits), obviously even the worst games have some chance to sell something on a insanely bigger and more casual target.
I agree with your two points, but this doesn't mean that smartphones and consoles markets are the same, they are completely different and should not be compared if not for smartphones marketing purposes, if you don't agree then for parity we should compare smartphones and photo/videocameras/mp3 etc too.
razgriz417
Member
True but that seems like a typical western feature phone, IIRC before the Iphone dominated, Japan had some amazing feature phones
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
That they did, but it still didnt make it any less of a bitch to develop apps for. Considering one had to make various versions for all the different types out there.
While there were a lot of mobile gaming, its nothing like what it is now due to ease of development + how one obtains said applications.
Small visual example.
Now imagine each drawer filled with a different phone model. Which a single application / game needs to be made for and tailored to for each phone due to firmware / hardware differences. Compounded by testing / approval processes for each domestic carrier.
Not a pretty picture eh?
Compared to having to work on the few firmwares / platforms that exist now in comparison to the past here, its a lot better for developers thats for sure. Its why the focus from games / apps on feature phones have switched to smartphones.
DracoBlade
Member
BoF6 the thread?
Brofist
Member
Why would you gloss over install base as if it was nothing when it comes to smart phones? Why does it matter if most of those people bought their phones for reasons other than gaming? Not so long ago Sony positioned the PS2 as a low cost DVD player with the intent on getting the device into more living rooms therefore selling more software. Seems like the same logic here pretty much. In this case you are being sold the ecosystem, not only the device.
As for them not being in the same market, I'm not sure what you are getting at. Would you consider handhelds and consoles in the same market? If so why are smartphones exempt. Does the device have to be a purebred gaming device for it to count as a gaming platform to you? If you were to separate consoles as a separate entity from handhelds here consoles would look pretty insignificant.
It is the fear that more developer and publisher will focused their production to mobage instead having it developed together with console game under different targeted market that makes me hate mobage. If somehow I can get assurance that no more old game companies chasing that money and forsake console market, like Nintendo did, I would not hate mobage like I do now.
I agree with all your point here on VC. Their platform move was understandable and I respect that in order to keep the series alive. But its the direction of VC2 that pretty much killed the game in the west, while the platform move just being nail to the coffin. Maybe if they maintain the direction with VC2, the game wouldn't bombed as hard.
I think it have to do with the fact that you mostly get embarassed if you play dedicated gaming handheld in public while playing games on smartphone wouldn't makes you much different to next guy who just texted his girlfriend/browse the internet/read blog novels.
Bigmac1910
Member
Maybe console gaming is truly on it's last leg. On the other hand, what difference does it make what platform it's on? As long as I can hook it up to a TV and controller when I'm not on the move, I'm all good. In the end it's all about the games, would love to have a Nintendo phone with TV out 
, Sony Xperia seems to go in that direction.
, Sony Xperia seems to go in that direction.Maybe console gaming is truly on it's last leg. On the other hand, what difference does it make what platform it's on? As long as I can hook it up to a TV and controller when I'm not on the move, I'm all good. In the end it's all about the games, would love to have a Nintendo phone with TV out
I would not be surprised if console gaming gets absorbed into PC gaming by the end of the decade. PCs become the new consoles. Valve will end up winning the console war at this point unless they do something stupid. (though Steam won't be able to do what Nintendo did in the 80s because you won't need Steam to release on PC)
The question is, will we get a viable phone that can be hooked to your TV to play games? That might be a gamechanger. I think Ouya is fascinating for what it could lead to, though Ouya itself isn't the answer.
There will always be a market for serious games, because there will always be demand for serious games, and folks will want to make those games because they are awesome. It just might not be AAA and big-budget anymore. Crowdfunding will ensure things get made as well.
Jon Shafer's at the gates might be a good test for how strat games that are serious can do on mobile, because I believe he's planning an Android version in addition to PC.
I'm not worried at all, I don't have to swim with the rest of the market as long as sufficient is made for me in other areas, and it will be.
I don't even own a smartphone, and I"ve never played a mobile game- that might change one day, but I find it doubtful at this time unless the mobile game industry changes.