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[Primethius]

What an incredibly moronic FB post. Some people in the gaming industry need to stop embrassing themselves with how ignorant they are on these matters.

Neil Druckmann yesterday too, ugh.

 

[Backfoggen]

i didn't expect anything different after the piss thing

You mean the prop for The Witness outro?

 

[Fat4all]

Giving up on some of your values while fighting for your values is probably not the right approach.

Blow is right in that regard.

But people are panicking right now and for a good reason.

The country that once stood for "freedom" is being turned to a modern dictatorship at a shockingly fast pace.

The feeling that you can´t do anything about that probably turns into aggression and that´s understandable.

Being German and seeing the development from the outside (being able to see a lot of parallels to our history) I still feel the anger in me every time I look at the news in the morning.

Everything is horrible.

In-fucking-deed.

Telling people to how to react is a non-essence when those people will react how they should react to what's happening to this country, not out of conscious, but out of necessity.

i didn't expect anything different after the piss thing

That was a prop.

 

[Heckler456]

Who said riots at every turn? A toxic dweeb that endangers people's lives.

And why would I have to worry about my house getting torn up? I'm not inviting facists and people with Nazi like beliefs to my house.

Some fucking guy just said we should drag trump out of the white house and hang him.

 

[d00d3n]

How does context work?

They were very obviously saying "no knowledge of anything relevant to this situation". Like they're talking about his comments on Facebook, implying that they know he knows English. Eyeroll

Ahhh, I see. I guess I have to go back to the drawing board and learn to interpret political statements in good faith.

 

[jay]

Giving up on some of your values while fighting for your values is probably not the right approach.

Blow is right in that regard.

But people are panicking right now and for a good reason.

The country that once stood for "freedom" is being turned to a modern dictatorship at a shockingly fast pace.

The feeling that you can´t do anything about that probably turns into aggression and that´s understandable.

Being German and seeing the development from the outside (being able to see a lot of parallels to our history) I still feel the anger in me every time I look at the news in the morning.

Everything is horrible.

While I appreciate that you are being understanding, it is incorrect to assume both that all principles are equally valued by a person and that freedom of speech is inherently cherished by the left. As you are aware, Europe is generally further left than we are yet countries also have more strict laws about hate speech.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Some fucking guy just said we should drag trump out of the white house and hang him.

One forum goer saying something means the entire left = just as bad!

Maybe when that forum goer assumes the highest office in this country and starts enacting his disgusting viewpoints we can chat.

 

[Chairman Yang]

man fucking richard spencer tweeted this yesterday

there are no space for debate with NAZIS, i don't wanna know how much clear this must get for liberals to understand

I don't think you understand the purpose of debate with Nazis. It's not to convince those Nazis--it's to convince everyone else.

Right now, with Nazis being a fringe minority in the US (albeit an emboldened one), violence against them will only garner sympathy and boost their support. "Punching Nazis" is something that feels good but will lead to disaster: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-01-28-punching-nazis

 

[Anung]

What an incredibly moronic FB post. Some people in the gaming industry need to stop embrassing themselves with how ignorant they are on these matters.

Neil Druckmann yesterday too, ugh.

Noooo not Deuckmann

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Riots are not ok, but Milo's culture of hate and fascism doesn't fucking belong in a university campus.

Maybe if schools didn't validate cancer like him, then the following, problematic episodes wouldn't have occurred.

 

[EGM1966]

As I noted in the other thread on this: given Milo a platform was a mistake. Protecting free speech doesn't mean giving someone like him a platform just to prove the point he has freedom of speech.

Neither were the riots a good idea or justified. He was scheduled to talk. You protest that level of issue with peaceful non violent means: there's no need to the high profile destructive option.

That said it's also important to note free speech is a principle but one that of necessity as a society can't be 100% depending on context. Certain speech has to be curtailed if its actively leading to crimes: such as hate speech that incites violence and actions that break other laws of the land.

Myself I don't really lean heavily to any particular ideology (left or right) because they are both dogged with extreme elements and individuals and they both try and promote a certain stability when in fact we need a society based on change and understanding that every element of it will change over time.

Everything we do is based on trying to create and maintain a certain stability: it's a function of our evolution and lifespan. But we know intellectually that this in fact is un-achievable and that change is a certainty. Our politics and society should be adjusting to this fact but in reality lags way, way behind.

Anyway both elements of this incident from even giving the guy a platform to the violent response weren't the right way to go about it.

Blow I'll note sounds as naive as I'd expect I guess.

 

[Yoshi]

that's one of these 'what if?' situations again and not at all what is happening here.

Milo is Breitbart's superstar. Steve Bannon is the founder of Breitbart. Steve Bannon is literally sitting in the oval office on a daily basis. Milo is not an "ordinary person". He's as close to being part of the current political establishment and "in power" as you can be without holding public office.

When I said powerful, I meant powerful in the stricter sense, not being someone who is successfull rhethorically. As far as I know, Milo is just a writer, without any legislative power. If so many people are of different opinion at this campus (as I'd hope!) they should give speeches rivaling his theses, fight with their minds instead of their fists.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Giving up on some of your values while fighting for your values is probably not the right approach.

Blow is right in that regard.

But people are panicking right now and for a good reason.

The country that once stood for "freedom" is being turned to a modern dictatorship at a shockingly fast pace.

The feeling that you can´t do anything about that probably turns into aggression and that´s understandable.

Being German and seeing the development from the outside (being able to see a lot of parallels to our history) I still feel the anger in me every time I look at the news in the morning.

Everything is horrible.

So when we get more violence like this over the coming weeks and eventually Trump has to address the issue by sending in more police, you'll just point a finger and say 'see'. Well done main stream media.

 

[Lime]

Was that shooter defended by people he ideologically identifies with? If not then there probably was no real reason for him to speak up.

Let's just say that it was first co-opted by the nazis to feign outrage over anti-racist protesters and 'mug freedom of speech to be a nazi', and then when it turned out to be one of their own, they were silent as hell

 

[Catvoca]

I don't agree with Blow, but I don't think he's an asshole or whatever for holding that view.

 

[SpacLock]

I mostly agree with him.

 

[Lime]

Blow and those in agreement with him:

 

[Buckle]

I think one of the most poisonous things I've seen pop up in the last few years is this idea that it's not cool to confront objectively bad people.

Some people are so consumed with the idea of being nice and polite above everything else that they can't even see a monster for what they are anymore.

They want to ruin lives and take away our rights but sure, lets politely listen to them and go quietly.

 

[DeanBDean]

I don't think that despising Milo and defending his right to free speech are mutually exclusive. I agree with the ACLU in this one actually, as they are a group that fought for and won the right for neo Nazis to have a parade in a predominantly Jewish community

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/188739

 

[jakonovski]

And let's just put the privilege mumbo jumbo in common terms:

people like Blow are rich and set for life. The first time they will in actual honest fact feel an American dictatorship is when the orange cheeto starts a nuclear war.

 

[Heckler456]

One forum goer saying something means the entire left = just as bad!

Maybe when that forum goer assumes the highest office in this country and starts enacting his disgusting viewpoints we can chat.

Dude, he asked me "who said riots at every turn". What are you talking about with this "left = just as bad" thing? That's not even the point Blow is making, yet people seem to keep insisting that he is, as if they don't want to give the benefit of the doubt to any single person that isn't on their extremity of the spectrum.

Noooo not Deuckmann

And Rami Ismail. But I guess we're giving him a pass?

 

[Zemm]

dude who has no knowledge of anything gives his uninformed opinion on a complex issue

yup

 

[HeatBoost]

Polite political discourse is for rational actors with morally justifiable points of view who deal in reality

When you threaten people, advocate for locking people up for their religion/nationality/ethnicity, and compulsively lie, then fuck you.

To put it in corny childhood metaphors, this is like a disinterested teacher telling a long-suffering party to "settle down" because they've been riled up by a shitty bully who has no incentive to stop making their life miserable. Obviously the mature thing to do is suffer in silence so that you don't make Mr. Blow have to intervene, right? Everyone has their own point of view that's equally valid, right? There wouldn't have been trouble if one side had just "been the bigger man", right?

eat shit you hack

 

[Fliesen]

When I said powerful, I meant powerful in the stricter sense, not being someone who is successfull rhethorically. As far as I know, Milo is just a writer, without any legislative power. If so many people are of different opinion at this campus (as I'd hope!) they should give speeches rivaling his theses, fight with their minds instead of their fists.

Do you think every student at the university gets the chance to hold a speech there?
People were simply unwilling to grant that privilege to Milo because they consider his hateful, vile and discriminatory ways diametrically opposed to what a university should represent.

And Rami Ismail. But I guess we're giving him a pass?

don't worry, thankfully he got '''''bullied'''''''' into writing an addendum with regards to the last third of the video.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I don't think you understand the purpose of debate with Nazis. It's not to convince those Nazis--it's to convince everyone else.

Right now, with Nazis being a fringe minority in the US (albeit an emboldened one), violence against them will only garner sympathy and boost their support. "Punching Nazis" is something that feels good but will lead to disaster: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-01-28-punching-nazis

I don't really understand how this isn't the conversation at every turn

"Oh no that guy got punched!"
"Oh it's fine, he advocates for black sterilisation"
"Oh fair enough then lol"

Like, what? "Garner sympathy"? The only way that happens is if you prioritise a lack of public violence in familiar environments above a lack of structured ethnic cleansing programs.

 

[maquiladora]

 

[Loudninja]

I think one of the most poisonous things I've seen pop up in the last few years is this idea that it's not cool to confront objectively bad people.

Some people are so consumed with the idea of being nice and polite above everything else that they can't even see a monster for what they are anymore.

They want to ruin lives and take away our rights but sure, lets politely listen to them and go quietly.

This is what make me so angry they always more worry about anything else then what is being protested.

 

[Fat4all]

damn, it's been a hot minute since i've seen those panels

 

[GlamFM]

So when we get more violence like this over the coming weeks and eventually Trump has to address the issue by sending in more police, you'll just point a finger and say 'see'. Well done main stream media.

Sorry, don´t get what you are trying to tell me.

 

[Yoshi]

Giving up on some of your values while fighting for your values is probably not the right approach.

Blow is right in that regard.

But people are panicking right now and for a good reason.

The country that once stood for "freedom" is being turned to a modern dictatorship at a shockingly fast pace.

The feeling that you can´t do anything about that probably turns into aggression and that´s understandable.

Being German and seeing the development from the outside (being able to see a lot of parallels to our history) I still feel the anger in me every time I look at the news in the morning.

Everything is horrible.

Let's just hope that Germany is not treading on a similar path. We have our own demagogic parties with CSU and AfD. If we have another great coalition, more and more people may be dirven to the extreme right and I fear what happens when Merkel gets replaced with someone way more on the right. Imagine a CDU/CSU/AfD coalition...

 

[fabricated backlash]

This is probably the single most stupid meme I've ever seen.

I fucking hate what pop culture has become.

 

[plagiarize]

When I said powerful, I meant powerful in the stricter sense, not being someone who is successfull rhethorically. As far as I know, Milo is just a writer, without any legislative power. If so many people are of different opinion at this campus (as I'd hope!) they should give speeches rivaling his theses, fight with their minds instead of their fists.

Protesting the speech and trying to get it cancelled is fine. No one is owed a platform. The people who offered that platform are themselves sending a message that speech like Milo's is fine. Plus, he has incited violence towards his critics in the past.

But it shouldn't have turned to property damage. It shouldn't have turned violent. Any hope of people on the fence, or leaning slightly towards Milo and people like him turning away from him, went out the window when they saw someone who they empathize (a Trump supporter) with getting pepper sprayed on TV. Fuck the anarchists and the antifas movements.

We got *much* more done with peaceful protests the last two weekends, and what happened in Berkley is only working to undermine all that good.

 

[CryptiK]

We all like to complain about what Trump is doing pushing people to the wrong side when it comes to ISIS, then shit like Berkeley happens where people are beaten unconscious in a riot because they hold a different(read awful) opinion and you guys dont think this will just incite more people into joining Trump? Milo could have had his little shitty speech but now he has had a week of amazing advertisement out all this horseshit happening, he actually feeds on this and you are doing exactly what he wants.

 

[Corleth the Fey]

Sigh, and I was enjoying my renewed play through of The Witness last night.

At what point is the USA - no - the world, going to realise that if these people get their way there is only one recourse for the good people of this world to stop them. Violence. It will be the only way to remove them from the places of power they are currently entrenching themselves in. I wish there was another way, but polite discourse is how these evil people will keep us crushed under their jackboots.

 

[Anung]

And Rami Ismail. But I guess we're giving him a pass?

What exactly did they both say?

 

[Primethius]

Also, maybe some of these folks defending Milo's right to speech should actually look up the first amendment and the various laws?

This notion that free speech is unfettered and always has a right to be unencumbered is ridiculous. Even more so when the government isn't even the acting agent.

Don't expose yourself as ignorant on politics, then doubly so on the law.

 

[Nheco]

So much negativity in this thread just because someone politely expressed his opinion.

There are lots of people who agree with Jonathan, they just don't say anything because they´re fucking scared of such behavior or, simply doesn't want to try to argue with someone that comes to a debate with stones in his hand.

That's sad as fuck.

 

[Yoshi]

Do you think every student at the university gets the chance to hold a speech there?
People were simply unwilling to grant that privilege to Milo because they consider his hateful, vile and discriminatory ways diametrically opposed to what a university should represent.

I don't know about the left in the US, but the left in Germany is actually quite capable of organising demonstrations and counter speeches. I would suspect the same holds for the left in the US, as well. No need for cooperation here.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

But this violence and destruction wouldn't have existed if the speaker hadn't focussed his carreer on spreading hate and intolerance.

Free speech should not apply to hateful rhetoric. It is emotional terrorism.

Violent protests suck. But it is almost better than the damage that Milo causes when he does his thing. And if anything, this type of anarchy is probably what he revels in.

 

[Costia]

I really don't understand some of the people here.
You can't punch people in the face or destroy property if you dislike them. Even if you call them Nazis.
You live in a democratic country. That's what laws and courts are for.
You are not allowed to take law into your own hands. That's not how it works.
If you feel so strongly about it, make sure the law changes to ban speakers like Milo.
Get people to vote. Get people to be involved in politics.
You cant just ignore the laws of you country because your favorite candidate lost the election.
Protest, write letters to media,senators or whatever you do in the USA. That's fine.
But advocating violence?
You are not living in Africa or the middle east (I am) where the governments can be corrupt or religious beyond repair. In that case I might have accepted "violence is the only way". But in the USA? No way.

I live in Israel. Here is a picture of a protest in Tel Aviv University against a lecture by an actual terrorist who served 4 years in prison for it (probably released due to some political deal):

That's how it's supposed to work in a democratic country.
And you guys are trying to defend using violence over a speech by Milo? That sounds insane to me.

 

[Heckler456]

What exactly did they both say?

They dared to give a Colin Moriarty video the thumbs up, because it advocated reaching out a hand to Trump supporters who aren't beyond saving.

 

[Lime]

And Rami Ismail. But I guess we're giving him a pass?

They dared to give a Colin Moriarty video the thumbs up, because it advocated reaching out a hand to Trump supporters who aren't beyond saving.

He amended it, please don't spread misinformation

 

[GlamFM]

Let's just hope that Germany is not treading on a similar path. We have our own demagogic parties with CSU and AfD. If we have another great coalition, more and more people may be dirven to the extreme right and I fear what happens when Merkel gets replaced with someone way more on the right. Imagine a CDU/CSU/AfD coalition...

Not a single mainstream party in Germany would partner with the AfD. They need 50%+ if they want to rule anything and thankfully this is not happening - even in this crazy times we´re living in.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

This is worse and more ridiculous than creationists asking for their fairy tales to be taught in schools. Why the fuck are people like Blow trying to validate this garbage as just a "different view point"?

 

[dracula_x]

So protest or even "riot" against fascism is a fascist too? This is news for me.

Please educate yourself, Jonathan – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising
Is that riot also was fascist?

Ok, maybe it's not a fair comparison, but it's what will happen in foreseeable future if you grant nazi freedom of speech. Why people always repeat mistakes from the the past?

 

[Jackpot]

"Won't someone please think of the fascists!"

I think what you wanted to say is that Blow is a genius game developer that made one of the most thoughtful and intelligent puzzle games of the last couple of years, but that you disagree with his political opinions.

The Witness was a painfully dull puzzle game dressed up with meaningless pretentious quotes.

 

[Primethius]

They dared to give a Colin Moriarty video the thumbs up, because it advocated reaching out a hand to Trump supporters who aren't beyond saving.

Lol, what a take on the matter.

Colin "I'd vote for Trump over Hillary" Moriarty preaching to the left on how to conduct themselves. Yawn.

Druckmanns retweet was very telling of his understanding of the current issues.

 

[Loudninja]

I really don't understand some of the people here.
You can't punch people in the face or destroy property if you dislike them. Even if you call them Nazis.
You live in a democratic country. That's what laws and courts are for.
You are not allowed to take law into your own hands. That's not how it works.
If you feel so strongly about it, make sure the law changes to ban speakers like Milo.
Get people to vote. Get people to be involved in politics.
You cant just ignore the laws of you country because your favorite candidate lost the election.
Protest, write letters to media,senators or whatever you do in the USA. That's fine.
But advocating violence?
You are not living in Africa or the middle east (I am) where the governments can be corrupt or religious beyond repair. In that case I might have accepted "violence is the only way". But in the USA? No way.

I live in Israel. Here is a picture of a protest in Tel Aviv University against a lecture by an actual terrorist who served 4 years in prison for it (probably released due to some political deal):

That's how it's supposed to work in a democratic country.
And you guys are trying to defend using violence over a speech by Milo? That sounds insane to me.

Oh yes the laws and courts works so well for black people.

Look you think this stuff has not been tried time and time again and fail us every single time?

 

[Scrawnton]

I really don't understand some of the people here.
You can't punch people in the face or destroy property if you dislike them. Even if you call them Nazis.
You live in a democratic country. That's what laws and courts are for.
You are not allowed to take law into your own hands. That's not how it works.
If you feel so strongly about it, make sure the law changes to ban speakers like Milo.
Get people to vote. Get people to be involved in politics.
You cant just ignore the laws of you country because your favorite candidate lost the election.
Protest, write letters to media,senators or whatever you do in the USA. That's fine.
But advocating violence?
You are not living in Africa or the middle east (I am) where the governments can be corrupt or religious beyond repair. In that case I might have accepted "violence is the only way". But in the USA? No way.

I live in Israel. Here is a picture of a protest in Tel Aviv University against a lecture by an actual terrorist who served 4 years in prison for it (probably released due to some political deal):

That's how it's supposed to work in a democratic country.
And you guys are trying to defend using violence over a speech by Milo? That sounds insane to me.

I agree with you 100% but things have gotten bleak in USA with people's outrage. You're just going to get ignored

Spoiler

=(

 

[Bold One]

What about these "rich white guys"?

Blow's right. Non-violent protests and asses on the streets is what enacts change in a civilized society.

Fascists do not deserve a seat at the table of civilised society,

The right of non-whites to exist is not a subject that should be up for debate.

9 out of 10 protests have been (surprisingly) peaceful,

as for the video you linked, it included the black panthers, an organisation that was willing to use violence if necessary, so get out of here with you apologist bull.

If any Nazis steps up to anyone, it is your constitutional duty to show them some hands and bats. Fascist cunts prey on the appeasement and softness of the liberal left.