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[nynt9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T15-xfUr8z4

It's 1h52m long, but I'd say it's worth it. Here's it in text form if that's too much. It also contains spoilers.

https://jphanderson.wordpress.com/2017/04/03/breath-of-the-wild-script/

I think this covers some ground that hasn't been addressed before, and is really analytical.

He talks about how great the exploration is. He has some complaints about some shrines and has some interesting ideas as to how they could have been fixed (how shrines are all uniform looking so they could be dynamically scaled when you enter one based on how many you've solved).

He's spent the effort to figure out how damage and armor scaling works, and he points out how fodder enemies in the late game can deal more damage than the final boss, which is problematic. Also, how armor scales as a flat value instead of a percentage seems like an issue as well. He points out that the game prevents you from getting one-shotted, except for when sometimes it doesn't.

The dodge system seems really inconsistent, both in terms of hitboxes and timing. He points out that you can seemingly only get the flurry attack when you dodge attacks that wouldn't have hit you anyway. He also points out issues with the lock-on controls and how they make dodging inconsistent.

He talks about encounter design, durability, and where the system works and it doesn't. He says that the argument for durability is that it forces you to use a variety of weapons, but almost all weapons have the same attack animation so it makes no difference.

There's a lot more to the video. And just so you don't think this is only criticism, let me remind you that he also loves it:

I loved parts of this game. I know that I’ll play it again with the DLC features and hard mode later on in the year but, without those additions, I don’t know if I would want to. There’s still so much left to see and find in the world, but the thought of having to do just some of the shrines again is enough to turn me off.

Breath of the Wild is undoubtedly the best open world game I have ever played, when I am playing it as an open world game. It has so many smart decisions.

In general; he thinks the game is a mix of some aspects that are basically the best game ever, and some decisions that seem very poor. I agreed with basically everything he said in the video, despite having nearly 100 hours in the game and loving most of the stuff in it.

I know not every random hot take on a game should get its thread, but I think that this video has enough unique viewpoints and effort put into it that there's worth to discussing it.

 

[Uzukii]

/sigh

I want to watch it but can't stand the way he talks.

 

[Blobbers]

loved this guy's fallout 4 video. will watch

 

[3DShovel]

I tend to find this guy a little nitpicky but he usually puts out a few good points.

I liked his analysis of the combat, an area where I feel Nintendo could've focused more.

Still didn't sour me on the game at all.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

I've definitely had some lock on issues. I'll lose the lock on for the enemy and lock on to a position in front of me.

 

[Plum]

Watched this earlier today, very good video. Whilst I don't particularly care for some of his criticisms regarding the nuances of combat (I don't 100% share his playstyle), I can definitely agree with most of his other ones. Though despite the video pointing out many flaws that I, in hindsight, very much agree with, the game's still my GOTY. As he says, when playing it as an open world game it is incredibly good.

 

[Kuro]

He brings up a lot of good points about how bad the combat in the game is.

 

[Red]

He brings up a lot of good points about how bad the combat in the game is.

 

[PhilipDoesMatter]

Hes got a point.

 

[Rodin]

He brings up a lot of good points about how bad the combat in the game is.

Except it isn't.

(Edited the rest and expanded my point under here)

 

[nynt9]

Except it isn't, and the points listed in the op are mostly bullshit (which convinced me not to waste 2 hours on this video).

Instead of calling it bullshit and moving on you can elaborate on how you disagree, and that would make for far better discussion.

 

[JerkShep]

I enjoy his videos a lot even if most of the time I disagree on a lot of things. This analysis raises a lot of good points, especially on combat and balance. His stance about shrines seems a little extreme, especially since he basically disregards the hidden chests which most of the time are that further step in complexity that he'd like to see. He briefly mentions them but it didn't seem that he took them in consideration in his analysis as a whole.

Also, both his experience with the Lynel in early game and him having the Master Sword before attempting the first dungeon are kind of unusual, I can understand that it was his first playthorugh and colored his experience as a whole...but it should be a given that if you have the prerequisites for the Master Sword

Spoiler

so at least 40 shrines completed, one third of the whole game

you're gonna obliterate the easiest of the dungeon bosses.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Except it isn't, and the points listed in the op are mostly bullshit (which convinced me not to waste 2 hours on this video).

I played BotW for 160 hours and it made me feel like a kid again and I've never had a gaming experience that affected me in such a powerful and unique way as leaping off of the Great Plateau for the first time.

But if you can't face and acknowledge the problems the game has, we may never get a sequel that rights BotW's many wrongs. Breath of the Wild is an extremely ambitious and experimental game that sets a foundation that can only be improved upon. That's why videos like this one are important for fans to consider.

 

[Kuro]

Wow the edge. The combat is seriously flawed. The dodge mechanic is extremely inconsistent and later on in the game enemies just become damage sponges where you need to stack attack food all the time or just plain avoid them because while they're just as easy as the starting enemies in terms of AI I don't like wasting 3 weapons and like 5 minutes on just one group of silvers. I don't even like flurries because its gets so repetitive and they could have done so much more with it like the counter in Windwaker looked a lot cooler.

 

[doop_]

This thread is off to a great start !

 

[Armoured Titan]

Except it isn't, and the points listed in the op are mostly bullshit (which convinced me not to waste 2 hours on this video).

Why so defensive? Some valid points were brought up with well thought out reasons, that's more we can say for your reasoning?

Frustrates me how some people are pre-occupied with praising how great the game is that they won't take into consideration the flaws and frustrations which there are many.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Definitely agree about Ganon being weaker than some mobs and the inconsistency in some areas of combat.

 

[Reptars Revenge]

Wow the edge. The combat is seriously flawed. The dodge mechanic is extremely inconsistent and later on in the game enemies just become damage sponges where you need to stack attack food all the time or just plain avoid them because while they're just as easy as the starting enemies in terms of AI I don't like wasting 3 weapons and like 5 minutes on just one group of silvers. I don't even like flurries because its gets so repetitive and they could have done so much more with it like the counter in Windwaker looked a lot cooler.

Lol dude there are no bullet sponges in this game, are you beating enemies with only a torch.

 

[Truant]

Why so defensive? Some valid points were brought up with well thought out reasons, that's more we can say for your reasoning?

Frustrates me how some people are pre-occupied with praising how great the game is that they won't take into consideration the flaws and frustrations which there are many.

Maybe some people don't care that much about those aspect of the game?

I see that the game is flawed, but the highs outweigh the lows so much that it doesn't really matter to me.

 

[Seik]

He's right about the dodge system, many time I activated the slo-mo by dodging an attack that wouldn't have hit me anyway.

That's my biggest negative about the game, but honestly, I exploited it to win a few fight I wouldn't have otherwise. So... not that much of a negative. :lol

 

[doop_]

Lol dude there are no bullet sponges in this game, are you beating enemies with only a torch.

Yes there are, example number one: White Lynels.

 

[Armoured Titan]

Maybe some people don't care that much about those aspect of the game?

I see that the game is flawed, but the highs outweigh the lows so much that it doesn't really matter to me.

That's fair enough. Every person has a different perspective on things, but that's no reason to rubbish someone else's criticisms or gripes with the game just because they themselves have nothing but praise for it.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Lol dude there are no bullet sponges in this game, are you beating enemies with only a torch.

There are absolutely damage sponges. White enemies take a lot of hits to down without introducing any added complexity to the encounter. You just have to hit them more, in most cases a lot more, and that is the very definition of a "bullet sponge."

Whether or not it bothers you as a player is another question entirely, but I think it's fair to say most players generally dislike enemies that demand more hits but no extra strategy.

 

[Death Penalty]

Come on guys, can we address points constructively and with reasoning rather than throwing out "HOT TAKE" and "lol what a shit opinion"? A game can be genuinely great and still have criticism that makes for interesting discussion. The person who made the video even outright loves the game, and it strikes me that this video addressing the weak points of the title is a labor of love not an attempt to pick it apart and "ruin" it.

 

[Nanashrew]

Yes there are, example number one: White Lynels.

I don't mind it tbh since there are so few of them. Lynels in past games were always among the deadliest in the games they were in, but only a few ever in each game. They increased their lethality tenfold in BotW.

 

[HStallion]

Its a great game and still has several areas to improve on. Not sure why people get so butt hurt over the fact the game isn't 100% flawless.

 

[Max_Po]

Will watch.... Bookmarked...

I have no intention to buy any Nintendo Consoles for now but I want to see whats with all the 10s ...

 

[Finale Fireworker]

I don't mind it tbh since there are so few of them. Lynels in past games were always the deadliest in the games they were in, but only a few ever in each game. They increased their lethality tenfold in BotW.

I also don't think White Lynels are a big problem. When you encounter one, you know what you're getting into. It's when you come across a normal enemy camp with a White Lizalfos or a White Moblin that turns a routine encounter into a routine encounter with one enemy you have to hit ten extra times.

They sort of make it worth it by having them drop gems, this makes fighting white mobs more productive, but it can still be a real chore to have to invest so many hits into something as paltry as a Bokoblin.

Overall, I really like the idea of the white enemies, I just wish they had more moves or more unique weapons that made fighting them feel different and not just longer.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Yeeeeeeees

So glad I found this guy on YT a while ago, he's ace with his in depth looks.

 

[Speely]

People are so sensitive about this game. It's literally my favorite game ever, but I can see where there is room for some critical commentary. Hell, I welcome it because it means that I can maybe learn more about my favorite game.

 

[sazzy]

The biggest problem with the game is that it uses some well-established gaming systems: buffs, re-speccing, armor upgrades, voice acting, weapon choice, etc., in really basic and simplistic ways, as if its the developer's first attempt at it.

 

[Kuro]

I mean I still had a great time with the game in terms of exploration and the world they created is so interesting to look at but by the time I was halfway through the maps it just felt like more of the same shrines and koroks. It would have been cool if each region had more varied challenges besides the same like 10 or so korok hunts. I would have traded 80% of the korok seeds for more quests that involved puzzles. There were some really cool areas that were the challenge to reach the shrine. I wish there were more of those.

 

[DecoReturns]

Aonuma already said that they want to surpass Breath of the Wild.

Critical analysis is welcome. They listen to SS criticism, I'm sure they'll continue to listen

 

[hamsjams]

Wait, is the video asserting that the only way to get flurry attacks is to dodge attacks that would've missed you? Anecdotally, that claim is quite false. Or am I reading the OP wrong?

I don't find the dodging inconsistent at all, but the game certainly has room to improve. I think that's one of the most exciting things about it; Breath of the Wild is easily one of my favorite games of all time and incredibly impressive but still has such huge potential for growth. It feels like we're back to Zelda 1 and have all the different evolutions of the series to look forward to again.

 

[Vena]

Yes there are, example number one: White Lynels.

Silvers? They're only bullet sponges if you fight them with bad weapons and don't head shot them regularly. They will go down very quickly when Flurry Rushed and regularly headshot. Mounting them deals true damage and doesn't degrade your weapons.

Or you can just one shot them with an Ancient Arrow.

 

[PillarEN]

Will watch.... Bookmarked...

I have no intention to buy any Nintendo Consoles for now but I want to see whats with all the 10s ...

Probably easier just to look at a few reviews in written or video form to save you the time.

Spoiler

This probably made me sound like I'm being an ass to you. I don't mean to come off that way haha. Just that it would be a huge time saver for you to take in 3 or 5 reviews from various perspectives than one very long one.

 

[Rodin]

Instead of calling it bullshit and moving on you can elaborate on how you disagree, and that would make for far better discussion.

(how shrines are all uniform looking so they could be dynamically scaled when you enter one based on how many you've solved).

I've talked way too much about this, i'd rather not return on the argument tbh.

he points out how fodder enemies in the late game can deal more damage than the final boss, which is problematic.

Not true in my experience, but there are many games where this actually happens and i'm not sure why that would be "problematic". It always depends on the context, what kind of quest is (if said enemy is quest related) and why that particular enemy deals more damage than the final boss. Off the top of my head, both Xenoblade games do this quite effectively.

He points out that the game prevents you from getting one-shotted, except for when sometimes it doesn't.

The game doesn't "prevent you from getting one shotted". Some attacks can oneshot you based on your equip, which enemy is attacking you and what attack he's using, and others can't. Like in... most games in existence.

The dodge system seems really inconsistent, both in terms of hitboxes and timing.

Hitboxes are extremely accurate, playing the game for 30 minutes should be proof enough but there are also tons of gifs that show this. If hitboxes are a problem in this game, i don't know what should be said about the Souls games, which are far more combat oriented, and it can be ridiculuos at times in this aspect.

He points out that you can seemingly only get the flurry attack when you dodge attacks that wouldn't have hit you anyway.

"Only"? Nah. I don't even know what to say here, flurry rush saved my ass against lynels many times.

He also points out issues with the lock-on controls and how they make dodging inconsistent.

Not sure what this means?

He talks about encounter design, durability, and where the system works and it doesn't. He says that the argument for durability is that it forces you to use a variety of weapons, but almost all weapons have the same attack animation so it makes no difference.

Absolutely not true. I mean, it shouldn't even be an argument when there are several different types of weapons with different weight, speed and movesets that work differently against different enemies (for example fast weapons with a lot of reach are more effective against lizalfos compared to a slow axe that they can dodge easily, while when fighting a Hinox a slow weapon that deals more damage is more effective). Either way, a spear clearly works differently than a two-handed sword.

But the biggest problem in his argument (if this is all he says in the video) is that this is not the only reason why weapons durability is a thing in this game, and why it works like this. Considering that you're free to go wherever you want after you complete the Plateau, you can easily find a 50+ weapon within the first 4-5 hours (like i did, and that includes the time spent in the tutorial area). If the weapon didn't break i could've easily trivialized the game and use this sword to breeze through the entirety of the early game and most of the mid parts, while also ignoring the stealth mechanics and all the other gameplay systems in place (which are what makes the game special in the first place). Thanks to weapons durability though i only used it when i was at a true disadvantage, because abusing it against little shits would've meant breaking it, and i was encouraged to think creatively before attacking an enemy camp and make the most of what i had and of the environment. And because the gameplay systems are so deep and interconnected, many, many fights felt pretty unique, which isn't something that can be said about most other open world games. In a way weapons durability is basically what holds the systemic gameplay together, and i can't think of many ways they could've handled this better, especially when the alternative would've likely been the introduction of tons of rpg stats and mechanics that don't belong in a Zelda game.

In general; he thinks the game is a mix of some aspects that are basically the best game ever, and some decisions that seem very poor.

There are quite a few questionable choices and decisions but i can't think of anything that is "very poor" in this game. I don't know if you somehow misrepresented what he said or if i'm reading some of these things the wrong way (i.e. he's talking about this stuff but in a different context than what i'm reading) but otherwise yes, from my 120 hours with the game most of the things you listed are absolutely not true. That doesn't mean that the game is perfect (no game is or ever will be), but the problems with it lie somewhere else.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Aonuma already said that they want to surpass Breath of the Wild.

Critical analysis is welcome. They listen to SS criticism, I'm sure they'll continue to listen

The great thing about BotW is, unlike SS, the game's foundation is incredibly solid and is ripe for refinement and overall improvement. The next open-air Zelda game is going to be something to behold. Can't wait.

 

[Plum]

I played BotW for 160 hours and it made me feel like a kid again and I've never had a gaming experience that affected me as such a powerful and unique way leaping off of the Great Plateau for the first time.

But if you can't face and acknowledge the problems the game has, we may never get a sequel that rights BotW's many wrongs. Breath of the Wild is an extremely ambitious and experimental game that sets a foundation that can only be improved upon. That's why videos like this one are important for fans to consider.

Exactly. You can have games polished to a mirror sheen that fail to impress, and you can have flawed games that go on to be one the greats. Anderson in the very video calls it "one of the best games I've ever played," and I fully trust that he actually believes that. Dark Souls is still my favorite game I have ever played (I'm so original!) despite it having many flaws. After playing a decent amount of Persona 5, which I've found fewer flaws in overall, I still feel that BotW is my favourite for GOTY.

Though it definitely goes both ways. There's already plenty of examples in the comment section of the video where people who don't agree with all the 10/10 scores are using it to get their feelings reinforced by implying all those reviewers are dishonest. Anderson himself fell into the same trap with his "I don't get all the 10/10 reviews" tweet and the rhetoric of his introduction, he ignores just how in-depth he gets into games and how his reviewing style doesn't really work for your typical short-form written/video review.

 

[nynt9]

I've talked way too much about this, i'd rather not return on the argument tbh.


Not true in my experience, but there are many games where this actually happens and i'm not sure why that would be "problematic". It always depends on the context, what kind of quest is (if said enemy is quest related) and why that particular enemy deals more damage than the final boss. Off the top of my head, both Xenoblade games do this quite effectively.


The game doesn't "prevent you from getting one shotted". Some attacks can oneshot you based on your equip, which enemy is attacking you and what attack he's using, and others can't. Like in... most games in existence.


Hitboxes are extremely accurate, playing the game for 30 minutes should be proof enough but there are also tons of gifs that show this. If hitboxes are a problem in this game, i don't know what should be said about the Souls games, which are far more combat oriented, and it can be ridiculuos at times in this aspect.


"Only"? Nah. I don't even know what to say here, flurry rush saved my ass against lynels many times.


Not sure what this means?



Absolutely not true. I mean, it shouldn't even be an argument when there are several different types of weapons with different weight, speed and movesets that work differently against different enemies (for example fast weapons with a lot of reach are more effective against lizalfos compared to a slow axe that they can dodge easily, while when fighting a Hinox a slow weapon that deals more damage is more effective). Either way, a spear clearly works different than a two-handed sword.

But the biggest problem here is that this is not the only reason why weapons durability is a thing in this game, and why it works like this. Considering that you're free to go wherever you want after you complete the Plateau, you can easily find a 50+ weapon within the first 4-5 hours (like i did, and that includes the tutorial part). If the weapon didn't break you could easily trivialize the game and use this sword to breeze through the entirety of the early game and most of the mid parts, while also ignoring the stealth mechanics and all the other gameplay systems in place. Thanks to weapons durability though i only used it when i was at a true disadvantage, because abusing it against little shits would've meant breaking it. In a way weapons durability is basically what holds the systemic gameplay together, and i can't think of many ways they could've handled this better, especially when the alternative would've likely been the introduction of tons of rpg stats and mechanics that don't belong in a Zelda game.


There are quite a few questionable choices and decisions but i can't think of anything that is "very poor" in this game. I don't know if you somehow misrepresented what he said or if i'm reading some of these things the wrong way (i.e. he's talking about this stuff but in a different context than what i'm reading) but otherwise yes, from my 120 hours with the game most of the things he said are absolutely not true. That doesn't mean that the game is perfect (no game is or ever will be), but the problems with it lie somewhere else.

This post is based on misinterpretations of the points in the video so I can't really say anything other than "watch the video".

 

[Vena]

The ne shot mechanics are consistent, if you have full health, there is no way to be one shot. If you do not have full hearts, you will be one shot even if you have 19.5 hearts.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

Yes there are, example number one: White Lynels.

There's like 10 of them in the entire game, and they're engaging enough and difficult enough to not be such a pain and actually fun.

Now Silver Bokobolins, Moblins, and Lizafos, those are damage-sponges. I've reached the point where most groups of enemies have 2 to 3 of them in their group. I have ways to take care of them decently enough, but.. yeah.. I can't defend them. Especially not when they bring nothing new to the table except being a reskined blue variant of enemies but with a shit ton of health.

 

[sanstesy]

This post is based on misinterpretations of the points in the video so I can't really say anything other than "watch the video".

I don't think seemingly trying to summarize a 2 hour video with a few paragraphs is the way to go. People will more than likely go with your paragraphs rather than watching the video itself.

 

[dh4niel]

I've definitely had some lock on issues. I'll lose the lock on for the enemy and lock on to a position in front of me.

When you're not near any enemies it's used to centre the camera behind you as well. Been that way since OoT.

 

[Rodin]

This post is based on misinterpretations of the points in the video so I can't really say anything other than "watch the video".

Then maybe you should remove or fix the summary in the op, because that's what my post was about. If you make a summary i expect it to mirror what's said in the video, not everyone has the time to watch a 2 hours analysis.

And about that, thanks but i'd rather go back to Persona 5 than spending 2 hours watching an analysis of a game i already finished and i already have a strong opinion on, both on its positive and negative aspects. I can remove the "bullshit" part of my previous post if that works for you.

 

[faridmon]

I agree with him on so many points, especially about the combat being wonkey and inconsistent. Sometimes moves that I am supposed to dodge, connects and others don't. Enemies have way more health than their attacks convey and bosses are largely weak compared to your normal 'minions' in the overworld.

 

[Red]

Come on guys, can we address points constructively and with reasoning rather than throwing out "HOT TAKE" and "lol what a shit opinion"? A game can be genuinely great and still have criticism that makes for interesting discussion. The person who made the video even outright loves the game, and it strikes me that this video addressing the weak points of the title is a labor of love not an attempt to pick it apart and "ruin" it.

How do you constructively address "the combat is so bad"? Youre already starting from a useless qualitative statement, itself with no underlying support.

To meet that kind of criticism on its own level, you got to channel your inner fourth grade recess and snort "nu-uh!!"

It's intentionally provocative and does not signal good intent, or a willingness to have a conversation.

 

[The Dude]

Its a solid 8 out of 10 game, that's about it. Fun game but has plenty of flaws overall. Although it's harder to to spot them early on.

 

[Won]

Boy, he goes all in on the shrines. I understand the disappointment and the longing for real dungeons, but I still think Nintendo did the right thing here for the most part and favored pacing over difficulty.

Gonna watch the combat stuff another time.

 

[Smeags]

I'm only five minutes into the video and he seems a bit... extreme in both his position of the game and the verbiage he uses to describe his experiences.

He first bemoans the "perfect scores" and "10/10's", saying the game has "huge critical problems" that somehow 60+ reviewers "ignored". So either it's a conspiracy (he obviously doesn't think that, but here we are), or these "problems" aren't as problematic to the vast majority of players as it was to him.

And it's fine that he can have those problems. But it was a bit of an odd rail against the other reviewers/opinions of the game that stuck out immediately (I mean, it's basically his introduction).

He then goes on to call some aspects of the game "unfinished", calling the developers who were involved in the areas he criticizes a "team of amateurs". Later on he says that in fact that some parts of this game are "diseased" (He's made it very clear so far that he absolutely abhors the shrines haha).

And that's just 3:07 into the video. Whew! It's... a bit much, when in fact myself and the vast majority of players have had a very different experience with the game. And again, that's fine. But he's made it pretty clear that he's right and everyone else is either ignoring these issues or are compartmentalizing them... when in fact they could actually be very much enjoy them! Other than probably two gyro controlled Shrines (the "mini golf" Shrine actually was one of my favorites!), I thought that was a brilliant aspect of the game (and can totally understand the issue of the shrines not being aesthetically pleasing/diverse).

I can definitely agree that some improvements can be made, but with such verbiage, I'm very hesitant to continue further into the video. Kinda just want to wait for Mark Brown's "Boss Keys" video. Those are some good stuff.