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[Kinyou]

None of this discredits his work but it's a real shitty feeling to know that he, allegedly, hurt a lot of women and abused his power to make that work happen.

I don't think there's reason to spin this bigger than it is. So far one woman, his ex-wife, says she was hurt by him and she doesn't even accuse him of abusing his power

The serial cheater accusation is something to be taken a lot more serious than the power abuse one which is pure conjecture

 

[Goodstyle]

(As a man) Never call yourself a feminist unless you have to

It's a super loaded term that has a lot of people immediately wary of your intentions. Nothing wrong with being a male feminist, just don't advertise it or people will think you're a PUA creep.

To elaborate, I don't think women are wrong to feel this way. I've seen good threads like this one explaining why this sentiment exists.

A lot of guys who go around talking about how "feminist" they are, tend to be huge dicks in the end. There's even a great SNL sketch on this exact thing. The whole "vocal male ally" brand has turned to shit because of the huge amount of entitled guys who use it to get in women's pants.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

^ I'm a woman and I have no problem with men declaring themselves feminists. It only sucks when they are hypocrites or fake, the problem isn't with the simple notion of men calling themselves feminists. Jesus christ. Also stop speaking for women by claiming "they hate this" when you have a bunch of women telling you otherwise.

It's a joke about how every now and then some guy who needs to tell everyone they are a 'top male feminist' in their Twitter bio ends up getting egg on their face when their private life is unleashed for the world to see.

It's the "puritanical preaching" part that made me go "huh?". Whedon's brand of feminism (in his fiction, that is) has always been sex positive so this makes no sense.

 

[Krowley]

Fuck this. I've never cheated, my brother's have never cheated, my parents have never cheated. And this isn't about cheating once, it's about serial cheating with those working under him, and FANS ffs

Yes people make mistakes, but are we not supposed to feel something in this situation? The gall to just brush this shit under the carpet is infuriating

Sorry, but I'm not quite so comfortable sitting around passing judgement on other people's private lives. I haven't walked in his shoes. Would I do any better? I hope so.

I know some people like to climb up in an ivory tower and pretend to be saints. I know myself better than that.

People are complicated. They do bad things, and then they do good things. They hold a view honestly in their heart, then contradict it with their behavior, then find a way to rationalize that failing. Very few people can be defined by only one subset of their actions. You can criticize these particular actions--not disputing that--but people are literally condemning the man as some kind of power-mongering monster in this thread, and it's all hilarious hyperbole.

Obviously cheating really hits a nerve for some people. Like I said, I've always seen it as a misdemeanor, not a felony.

 

[Nekofrog]

Director who claims he's feminist exploits his being a famous director to cheat on his wife with actresses who work under him even though he should be well aware of the fucked up power-dynamics between actresses and their male directors which still persist because Hollywood is still a boy's club. To top it off he uses his reputation as a feminist to mislead his wife about the women he was meeting and secretly sleeping with and becoming a serial-cheater in the process.
He literally exploited his "feminism" to cheat on his wife.

GAF: Well just because he cheated doesn't mean he's not feminist.

Yup. The situation is way more fucked up than hand waivers here are willing to admit.

 

[Goodstyle]

^ I'm a woman and I have no problem with men declaring themselves feminists. It only sucks when they are hypocrites or fake, the problem isn't with the simple notion of men calling themselves feminists. Jesus christ. Also stop speaking for women by claiming "they hate this" when you have a bunch of women telling you otherwise.

I... I don't know how else to explain it to you that I don''t think literally all women feel this way. I'm just pointing out that there are a lot that do. There's a lot of hypocrites who make feminism part of their brand to get close to women and then do heinous things. It's a common trope among dudes that people have caught on to and a lot of woman are wary of.

I'm not saying literally all male feminists are creeps. I'm not saying literally all women think all male feminists are creeps. I'm just saying this is a dynamic that exists and am commenting on.

 

[Nekofrog]

That's probably the better answer. Don't talk about it, just let women lead the way on the subject.



I'm not speaking for literally every woman, I'm just talking about a really common sentiment I've seen.

You're mansplaining feminism while also putting down feminism.

 

[BoogieWoogie]

Can someone give me a synopsis of what was happening in his Wonder Woman script? I never read it.

 

[Wollan]

Nvm

 

[ZeoVGM]

What is the other side of the story? He fell and his dick landed into actresses and fans repeatedly?

You serious?

The other side of the story is that what you just said didn't happen.

 

[Doc_Drop]

I know some people like to climb up in an ivory tower and pretend to be saints.

but people are literally condemning the man as some kind of power-mongering monster in this thread

I'm glad you're above hilarious hyperbole..

I'd hope that your future or current partner is aware of your feelings towards cheating being a misdemeanor

 

[Staccat0]

This sounds... condescending. It might just be better to say it's inappropriate for your working relationship and that you're married.

That's the joke. It's super sexist in it's sentiment.

 

[Inferno313]

You serious?

The other side of the story is that what you just said didn't happen.

is it? because he doesn't seem too concerned with denying that.

 

[Goodstyle]

That's the joke. It's super sexist in it's sentiment.

Derp. My bad lol. Hard to tell these days.

 

[Bobo Dakes]

You serious?

The other side of the story is that what you just said didn't happen.

You're assuming he'd deny it. The other side of the story is simply what YOU want to be the truth.

 

[ZeoVGM]

is it? because he doesn't seem too concerned with denying that.

Perhaps he doesn't want to get into a public back and forth with his ex-wife who put out a blog post attacking him?

If I were accused of something like that, I would be sure to speak to my lawyers about the situation first before putting out any sort of statement.

 

[Inferno313]

Perhaps he doesn't want to get into a public back and forth with his ex-wife who put out a blog post attacking him?

If I were accused of something like that, I would be sure to speak to my lawyers about the situation first before putting out any sort of statement.

So what, you're just assuming that he didn't do it because.... why?

 

[Nekofrog]

So what, you're just assuming that he didn't do it because.... why?

Hero worship I imagine.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Hero worship I imagine.

Really? Because you're in the thread acting as if you already know this to be complete fact.

Neither you or I have any idea what's true in this situation.

 

[Inferno313]

Really? Because you're in the thread acting as if you already know this to be complete fact.

Neither you or I have any idea what's true in this situation.

We've got one person who basically says: "He cheated on me."

We've got another person who basically says: "I'm not talking about this."

How do you get "He didn't do it." out of that?

I hope none of you guys who are arguing that this woman is lying don't consider yourselves feminists. Because this is outright sexist behavior.

 

[Bobo Dakes]

Really? Because you're in the thread acting as if you already know this to be complete fact.

Neither you or I have any idea what's true in this situation.

Sounds like you're only willing to take his word as fact. You don't see anything wrong with that? Also, if her claim is true, then there will be plenty of sides to this.

 

[Doc_Drop]

I wonder if the allegations were regarding rape, which I'm obviously not implying, people's responses would be different with regards to taking the statement from her as legitimate.

Such a surprise victims of abuse are not often inclined to come out and actually say anything when doubt is cast so definitively against them

I repeat, I'm not implying rape or saying rape is the same as cheating

 

[Goodstyle]

So what, you're just assuming that he didn't do it because.... why?

People think not believing an accuser is a neutral stance, but it actually isn't. It's the assumption that the accuser is a liar. I'm not going to give someone grief for thinking she's lying, but I question the impulse to imply that everyone who does believe her is aggressively naive.

I think she's telling the truth for a lot of reasons, it's fine if you don't, just don't act like you aren't taking a stance.

 

[Nekofrog]

I wonder if the allegations were regarding rape, which I'm obviously not implying, people's responses would be different with regards to taking the statement from her as legitimate.

Such a surprise victims of abuse are not often inclined to come out and actually say anything when doubt is cast so definitively against them

I repeat, I'm not implying rape or saying rape is the same as cheating

I'm glad someone bought this up actually. Because if he used his power to leverage women into sex to advance their careers, that's pretty much as close to rape as you get without holding her down

 

[ZeoVGM]

We've got one person who basically says: "He cheated on me."

We've got another person who basically says: "I'm not talking about this."

How do you get "He didn't do it." out of that?

I didn't say that's what I got out of it. I'm saying I'm not going to say "Fuck that creep" after a single accusation from an ex.

And it's not simply "he cheated on me." The issue is her description of the cheating and his use of power in the situation.

But come on, be honest here.

If Joss came out and said, "None of that is true," are you or especially Nekofrog going to then say, "Well I guess it's a he-said/she-said situation and we'll never know the truth?"

Those demonizing him now have already decided he's guilty of the accusations and it damn well won't matter if Joss releases a statement saying otherwise.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Yikes!

I hope he doesn't ruin the good feminist work of the Snyders.

 

[border]

We've got one person who basically says: "He cheated on me."

We've got another person who basically says: "I'm not talking about this."

He alleges there are inaccuracies and misrepresentations in this account, but recognizes that getting into a very public game of He Said/She Said is not really going to fix this disaster. It's only going to prolong it. At the moment his PR team more than likely wants to give this time to blow over.

 

[Sanjuro]

I'm not going to pretend to understand the complexities their relationships. Some individuals have their own moral compass or love supermarket tabloid stories enough to fall somewhere on this.

That being said, some of the people reacting to this should be interesting. I feel like many stories in this realm have overwhelmingly toxic results.

 

[TrumanBurbank]

Basically used his talent to try to have his cake and eat it too on every level.

Be the family man and have that life.
Be the lothario and have that life too.

I'm sure he loved the idea that his wife KNOWS that he is cheating but she stays with him anyways. He probably loved that control he had over her.

Like Walter White said "I did it because I liked it"

 

[H.Protagonist]

Studies show that in about 1/3 of marriages one or both spouses cheat. That's a huge amount.

I suppose it's more directed towards those posters saying it. Are they basically saying they're unable to control themselves if they were/are married? Does the number of people doing it according to the studies somehow make it okay to them just because it's prevalent? I just don't get why people get married if they're not prepared to actually honor it. And while I do understand that relationships are complicated and that people are as well and we make mistakes even when we intend to be true, it's the serial cheating (which is the case here) that also seems to be getting a pass. That's not the same as a mistake or a marriage that's not working out. Just seems a bit mind boggling.

I don't know if it's impossible, I'd say from what I've seen in my life, and according to most stats, fidelity and infedelity are about as common as one another, and even then it's mostly due to environment and circumstances. And I don't know why you're calling out guys in particular, since, at least where I'm from, women are more likely to cheat than men. I guess it's a cultural issue, the way (not just, but mostly) americans treat cheating as some assault on decency that has to be adjudicated in the public square always seemed a little backwards to me. I'll just back away from this thread though, since people are getting so worked up they're already asking for permabans.

I'm addressing men in particular because in this situation it's a man cheating on a woman, and I believe those responding with 'whatever everyone cheats' are also men. As far as I know, I still think men do more of the cheating statistically, but that the numbers are getting closer between sexes as women become more financially independent. Also not sure why you think you need to back out of the thread. If you're not being an asshole when discussing the issue (you're not), a troll, or just driveby shitting up the thread, then what exactly are you afraid of? Saying you think cheating is whatever or lol is not ban-able. It's just an opinion, and one you're allowed to have if you truly think that way. It's how you express it that matters, I'm sure.

 

[themaskedndi]

Sorry but this is only anti-feminist if we are supposed to believe Parker was justified in his beliefs or something. And beer has nothing to do with feminism here.

I was simply rebutting the idea that Whedon doesn't punish characters for sex, which he clearly does. Again, Buffy's sexual history is:

- Loses her virginity to her 200-year-old vampire boyfriend on her 17th birthday. This act turns him into a murderous monster.

- Has sex with a seemingly sweet guy that was only using her. She becomes depressed and drinks, which causes her to devolve into a Neandrathal.

- Starts a consensual relationship with the TA in her Psych class. Over the course of the relationship, they are influenced by poltergeists to have nonstop sex, manipulated into having a nonconsensual encounter when Buffy's body is stolen, and secretly videotaped during sex.

- Has a toxic sexual relationship with a murderous vampire. When she tries to break off the relationship, he attempts to rape her.

And again, that's only Buffy Summers. Cordelia probably had it worse on Angel, considering that she was used as an alien broodmare after a one-night-stand and was possessed by a demon that used her body to bang a teenager and get pregnant.

I have no interest in declaring Joss Whedon's oeuvre as feminist or anti-feminist. I'm a huge fan of Buffy and love many of the characters he has created. I also have an abundance of issues with his shows, from his treatment of sex to the Buffybot to the mess that is Xander Harris.

For years, both Whedon's feminism has been used as a shield against criticism of his work. (It was apparently also used as a shield for his affairs) But truthfully, Whedon's feminism -- or lack thereof -- shouldn't matter at all here. Feminism isn't an excuse that you can use to get away with questionable writing, and men that treat women poorly are still capable of writing compelling female characters.

 

[Timeaisis]

Don't take this the wrong way, Joss lovers, but I've always quietly seen him as a phony, so this (if all true), would really not surprise me in the slightest.

 

[Kurtofan]

anyone here ever cheated? Or slept with a person who is already in a relationship?

just curious, wonder how taboo this is.

 

[Doc_Drop]

anyone here ever cheated or have an affair with a person in a relationship?

just curious, wonder how taboo this is.

I think it's shitty but understandable as a crime of passion. Repeated and unrepentant episodes is just straight up bullshit though

 

[Kinsei]

anyone here ever cheated or have an affair with a person in a relationship?

just curious, wonder how taboo this is.

I haven't.

If you do cheat then the least you can do is tell your partner.

 

[ZeoVGM]

anyone here ever cheated or have an affair with a person in a relationship?

just curious, wonder how taboo this is.

I haven't. I've been cheated on during a very rough period in a relationship though. But I was partly at fault for pushing the person away. It ended up making the relationship stronger, however.

Relationships and life in general is complicated as hell. I don't believe cheating makes someone a bad person. There are always different factors in a relationship that can lead to such things.

What isn't complicated is using your position of power to prey on younger women. And obviously, if that's true, that to me is the problem here. Not the act of cheating in general -- as no one will ever know what was going on in that relationship other than the two involved -- but the act of abusing your position of power to enact the cheating.

 

[Ralemont]

I was simply rebutting the idea that Whedon doesn't punish characters for sex, which he clearly does.

Whedon punishes his characters for a great many things. Of course sex would be included in that. What couldn't fill in the blank for "Whedon punishes his characters for ___".

Know who, out of everyone in the Buffy-verse, is punished the most for sex? Hint: it's not a woman!

I point that out because, again, the context of this thread makes it so that bringing up Buffy being punished for sex is clearly intended to undermine the feminist text of Whedon's work. When Whedon's stance on sex is actually not that related to feminism.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Whedon punishes his characters for a great many things. Of course sex would be included in that. What couldn't fill in the blank for "Whedon punishes his characters for ___".

Know who, out of everyone in the Buffy-verse, is punished the most for sex? Hint: it's not a woman!

I point that out because, again, the context of this thread makes it so that bringing up Buffy being punished for sex is clearly intended to undermine the feminist text of Whedon's work.

Yeah, I feel that looking at Whedon's work for how he treats the idea of sex is unfair. Whedon's work is about making characters lives terrible. The deaths of Fred and Wash were not punishment for sex. It was because Whedon believes that having terrible things happen to characters is good drama.

Someone earlier used "Tara dying after making love to Willow" as an example of a character being punished for having sex and that just seems like a huge stretch to me. Tara's death was to make a point about the seriousness of guns, not to punish her for having sex. That's silly.

 

[Tunahead]

For the longest time, Joss Whedon has been a very typical example of someone who probably genuinely believes he's a feminist, but all the while continues to create art that in no way reflects this self-image. (See also: Ernest Cline, Patrick Rothfuss)

Remember Buffy's endless quest for a strong male love interest? Remember how in Firefly Companions were supposedly some kind of respected profession, but people would just casually call them whores to their faces? Remember when Black Widow's "strong female" moment consisted entirely of her wearing a skimpy leather outfit and being tied to a chair? Remember his Wonder Woman script? And so on.

 

[Goodstyle]

So Joss Whedon liked this tweet.

 

[JeTmAn81]

So Joss Whedon liked this tweet.

Perhaps he's sliding into that DM right now

 

[Puck Beaverton]

Celebrities generally fuck their fans. We have a term for it, they're called groupies.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

So Joss Whedon liked this tweet.

Doesn't want to make a statement for the sake of his kids.
Favorites a tweet about cheating.

 

[xJavonta]

What does infidelity have to do with feminism?

My question too. Cheating is fucking shitty, but I don't see how that disqualifies someone from being a feminist. Just a shitty person.

 

[WrenchNinja]

So Joss Whedon liked this tweet.

I'm just human guys! I emotionally tortured my wife enough to give her ptsd but that just makes me a flawed human being.

 

[LordKasual]

Sarcasm. If that's not clear.

sorry, it wasn't lol.

these threads are full of people who be deadass and emotional like that

Celebrities generally fuck their fans. We have a term for it, they're called groupies.

So what, you condone a man abusing his power to take sexual advantage of easily impressed younger women, you sick fuck?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I'm just human guys! I emotionally tortured my wife enough to give her ptsd but that just makes me a flawed human being.

now I'm going to like tweets that condone my cheating and defend my so called feminism!

 

[Random Human]

So Joss Whedon liked this tweet.

Not a great look, Joss.

 

[Galactic Specter]

Joss Whedon on casting Batgirl

"What I'm looking for in a Batgirl is probably somebody new," Whedon told us on the red carpet. "Somebody who is willing to go the distance. It is going to be hard. I want somebody who's going to get in the trenches with me."

We see you, Whedon.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

My question too. Cheating is fucking shitty, but I don't see how that disqualifies someone from being a feminist. Just a shitty person.

I think that people in this thread are trying to skirt the issue by bringing up that not all cheating is black and white. Which, while true, is nowhere near the context of this situation.

It's safe to say that we can argue all day and night over whether any of Cole's allegations are true or not, but within the context of this specific situation, if true, Joss Whedon is 100% not a feminist. He would have cheated on his wife and mother of his children for years. That's the direct opposite of respecting women, in general and as equals.