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[PopcornMegaphone]

/thread

Shut it down.

This was actually a pretty interesting read. Thanks for posting this.

 

[soco]

Having to use the GPU... that does not sound good.
How much of the system processing is required to process kinnect after all?

the GPU can probably make the calculations much more efficiently than the 360's CPU. it's a good thing.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Impulse buy incoming :lol :lol :lol

 

[Iced_Eagle]

Kinect now works perfectly fine with sitting.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/08/19/kinect-dashboard-navigation-works-while-seated

We've been told before that the Xbox 360's Kinect would work when "an experience is developed with sitting in mind," but we hadn't had the opportunity to really test that. In a Gamescom meeting, where we saw the Kinect version of the Xbox dashboard, we tried out the menu system and movie controls to test its recognition of seated users:

•Sitting in a chair: Definitely works.
•Sitting on the floor: Works.
•Reclining while facing the Kinect: Works.
•Reclining with the Kinect at our side: We couldn't get this to work, but we've been told that it will by launch.
•Using another human as a coffee table (should have taken photos!): Kinect recognized the person behind the human coffee table trying to control the movie.
According to Microsoft, Kinect was running on an improved version of the software used during E3 in June. The manufacturer is set to make further improvements before the camera's November debut.

 

[shaowebb]

Let's see.

• A "new" system that does not work as a stand alone, and requires the purchase of another $200+ system just to work. Check.
• Promising features that are way more limited than advertised. Check.
• Having no decent titles at launch. Check.
• Having no titles that appeal to the original system's core demographic. Check.
• Having a bizarre counter productive E3 launch party to celebrate this system. Check.
• Pissing off 3rd party developers during the launch. Check

Holy shit you guys...this Kinect is the new SEGA-CD!!!

 

[soco]

Holy shit you guys...this Kinect is the new SEGA-CD!!!

welcome to last year's jokes!

 

[fernoca]

welcome to last year's jokes!

Give him a break, he was probably laughing while he wrote that.

 

[shaowebb]

Give him a break, he was probably laughing while he wrote that.

Actually, I've been posting it since last year. It just stays funny to me. How can Microsoft not realize that they are LITERALLY recreating the same mistakes that killed another system in the past?

 

[soco]

Actually, I've been posting it since last year. It just stays funny to me. How can Microsoft not realize that they are LITERALLY recreating the same mistakes that killed another system in the past?

you and lots of other people.

because for the last few years people have been paying 100+$ for stupid peripherals that are much more limited? how well has rockband sold? how many games does it work with?

 

[shaowebb]

you and lots of other people.

because for the last few years people have been paying 100+$ for stupid peripherals that are much more limited? how well has rockband sold? how many games does it work with?

How big is it's demographic?

Music is something you can always make appealing. Limited functionality is not. Promising features that are gimped compared to what was originally promised is not a good reputation to start with. Rockband delivered what it promised to fans. Microsoft didn't.

Forcing dev kits at 3rd party titles that are already well into production is irritating to coders. It can be made into an optional feature instead of a core one, but it's still something that drives up costs to code since now you have to code that on top of everything else AND test it for bugs.


Name ONE title that has you stoked for Kinect as a member of the core demographic that the 360 was originally targeted at. Kinectimals? Dancey dancey look like a tard the game? The line-up is geared towards either women wanting to work out or insanely small children who have no wallets that are easier to passify with floodware, or license titles by parents.

Kinect needs to find something that appeals as universally as music does if it ever has a hope of appealing to a market in the manner Rockband did. Until then it's just a big expensive pain in the ass that most parents wont buy for their kids, and wont need since they probably already got Wii's for party family games, and exercising back when it was marketed at them for HALF the cost of a 360 slim, and Kinect.

 

[RedStep]

Actually, I've been posting it since last year. It just stays funny to me. How can Microsoft not realize that they are LITERALLY recreating the same mistakes that killed another system in the past?

A "new" system that does not work as a stand alone, and requires the purchase of another $200+ system just to work. False. This is a controller for an existing system. Last time I checked, Wii Fit also requires a $200 system to operate. They're giving it the attention of a system launch, but it's not.

Promising features that are way more limited than advertised. Undetermined. We don't know what the final features / performance will be like.

Having no decent titles at launch. Subjective. I'll be picking up Kinectimals and Dance Central, at least. Ah, and Children of Eden.

Having no titles that appeal to the original system's core demographic. Subjective.

Having a bizarre counter productive E3 launch party to celebrate this system. Subjective.

Pissing off 3rd party developers during the launch. ????

You didn't make one factual statement. Should have addressed the price. I think most agree that it's priced out of (or mostly out of) the casual purchase zone.

 

[Dead Man Typing]

Don't forget Rez fans, Child of Eden is something I really want to play. But it probably isn't a launch title....

 

[PSGames]

How big is it's demographic?

Music is something you can always make appealing. Limited functionality is not. Promising features that are gimped compared to what was originally promised is not a good reputation to start with. Rockband delivered what it promised to fans. Microsoft didn't.

:lol

Exactly what features are you talking about?

Name ONE title that has you stoked for Kinect as a member of the core demographic that the 360 was originally targeted at. Kinectimals? Dancey dancey look like a tard the game? The line-up is geared towards either women wanting to work out or insanely small children who have no wallets that are easier to passify with floodware, or license titles by parents.

I for one loved Dance Central and Kinect Sports when I tried them at E3. So yes I'll be buying those 2 games. Maybe Fighters Uncaged depending on reviews and such.

 

[soco]

How big is it's demographic?

you've got an axe to grind and your post is full of misinformation and contradictions that isn't worth the time to point out. good luck with all of that!

 

[shaowebb]

A "new" system that does not work as a stand alone, and requires the purchase of another $200+ system just to work. False. This is a controller for an existing system. Last time I checked, Wii Fit also requires a $200 system to operate. They're giving it the attention of a system launch, but it's not.

Promising features that are way more limited than advertised. Undetermined. We don't know what the final features / performance will be like.

Having no decent titles at launch. Subjective. I'll be picking up Kinectimals and Dance Central, at least.

Having no titles that appeal to the original system's core demographic. Subjective.

Having a bizarre counter productive E3 launch party to celebrate this system. Subjective.

Pissing off 3rd party developers during the launch. ????

You didn't make one factual statement. Should have addressed the price. I think most agree that it's priced out of (or mostly out of) the casual purchase zone.

View my list however you want to, but it doesn't change the fact that this is NOT creating the kind of buzz either the Wii, the balance board, or Rockband did when they hit the market within their intended audiences. I work in retail right now while I'm in college. The responses we're seeing are ones of mild interest if any among casuals, distaste at the cost from both parents and core 360 audiences, and no interest whatsoever from the major 360 audience of FPS fans, and sports fans.

It just lacks appeal at this price, and lacks anything to draw a large audience. The 360 slim sells, but no one really seems to buy one wanting Kinect. Try to hold out hope if you want, but until this add-on that is marketed as a system that costs close to a system in price delivers a AAA title to the market that makes full body motion control something incredible instead of just tiring then you can pretty much count on it flopping.

 

[skyfinch]

:lol

Exactly what features are you talking about?



I for one loved Dance Central and Kinect Sports when I tried them at E3. So yes I'll be buying those 2 games. Maybe Fighters Uncaged depending on reviews and such.

Not being able to sparta kick Milo into the pond.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

Name ONE title that has you stoked for Kinect as a member of the core demographic that the 360 was originally targeted at. Kinectimals? Dancey dancey look like a tard the game? The line-up is geared towards either women wanting to work out or insanely small children who have no wallets that are easier to passify with floodware, or license titles by parents.

Except that Dance Central has been getting fantastic buzz on gaming sites and forums, and most hands-on impressions for the first party titles from the gaming press, i.e. not women or small children, has been positive. If you think core gamers are all laughing at the "dancey dancey look like a tard game" (really?), you couldn't be more wrong.

Regardless of who is interested in it though, your post even openly admits that the launch games have an audience, and it just so happens to be the same audience that also fell in love with the Wii. So I'm not even sure how you reached your own SEGA-CD FAIL!!! conclusion.

 

[shaowebb]

http://www.gamedot.co.uk/2010/08/03/kinect-failing-to-impress/?

"A mere 19% of those surveyed were impressed with the Kinect launch line-up, however some comfort for Microsoft comes from the fact that 61% were interested in how the integration of voice control would pan out."

TECH FAILS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v01bm9iLtAI&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXN7vLPsDSM&feature=player_embedded



"5 reasons why Kinect could fail"

http://www.conceivablytech.com/1377/products/5-reasons-why-xbox-360-kinect-could-fail/

• Limited camera and sensor capability
• Limited body recognition
• Legacy control and compatibility
• Content
• Pricing

Four out of five of these things have happened already. Good luck Kinect fans. You're gonna need it.

 

[MrPliskin]

Except that Dance Central has been getting fantastic buzz on gaming sites and forums, and most hands-on impressions for the first party titles from the gaming press, i.e. not women or small children, has been positive. If you think core gamers are all laughing at the "dancey dancey look like a tard game" (really?), you couldn't be more wrong.

Regardless of who is interested in it though, your post even openly admits that the launch games have an audience, and it just so happens to be the same audience that also fell in love with the Wii. So I'm not even sure how you reached your own SEGA-CD FAIL!!! conclusion.

I want to be excited for Dance Central, I really do, but at the end of the day, just going out to a night club and getting hammered and dancing with people, ultimately making bad decisions...well, it's much more fun than Dance Central could ever be.

 

[Dante]

http://www.gamedot.co.uk/2010/08/03/kinect-failing-to-impress/?

"A mere 19% of those surveyed were impressed with the Kinect launch line-up, however some comfort for Microsoft comes from the fact that 61% were interested in how the integration of voice control would pan out."

TECH FAILS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v01bm9iLtAI&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXN7vLPsDSM&feature=player_embedded



"5 reasons why Kinect could fail"

http://www.conceivablytech.com/1377/products/5-reasons-why-xbox-360-kinect-could-fail/

• Limited camera and sensor capability
• Limited body recognition
• Legacy control and compatibility
• Content
• Pricing

Four out of five of these things have happened already. Good luck Kinect fans. You're gonna need it.

:lol @ the first vid.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

http://www.gamedot.co.uk/2010/08/03/kinect-failing-to-impress/?

"A mere 19% of those surveyed were impressed with the Kinect launch line-up, however some comfort for Microsoft comes from the fact that 61% were interested in how the integration of voice control would pan out."

TECH FAILS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v01bm9iLtAI&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXN7vLPsDSM&feature=player_embedded



"5 reasons why Kinect could fail"

http://www.conceivablytech.com/1377/products/5-reasons-why-xbox-360-kinect-could-fail/

• Limited camera and sensor capability
• Limited body recognition
• Legacy control and compatibility
• Content
• Pricing

Four out of five of these things have happened already. Good luck Kinect fans. You're gonna need it.

Well, you've convinced me. A limited survey of gamers (despite you openly admitting that 90% of the launch titles appeal to the casual market) before the marketing campaign has begun, and a couple of fail videos of unfinished hardware and software that sit amongst a sea of none-fail videos. Thanks for the input though, those fail videos have taught me that I should never attempt a kick when playing Kinect 2 years before it's release, and to never attempt to play a game working on the visual detection of light whilst in a room full of flash photography fetishists.

I want to be excited for Dance Central, I really do, but at the end of the day, just going out to a night club and getting hammered and dancing with people, ultimately making bad decisions...well, it's much more fun than Dance Central could ever be.

You're right, but I fail to see how that will stop me from enjoying Dance Central? Hanging out with buddies at a club is better than virtually every video game. Dance Central is for when I'm in the house with my friends, it's not something that's going to form a mental tug of war between living room dancing and club dancing, because clearly if I'm even considering going to a club, real life dancing will win, just like playing an actual gig is much more fun than Rock Band.

 

[Psychotext]

TECH FAILS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v01bm9iLtAI&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXN7vLPsDSM&feature=player_embedded

You know... there are a lot of dodgy kinect vids out there, so I really don't understand why you picked the two which failed with good reason.

The first... well, why might a technology which relies on infra-red and visible light not work properly when there's a bunch of flashes and infra-red (autofocus) being blasted all over the subjects trying to use it? It's a mystery.

The second... the tech that was a year and a half from being launched, and he was trying to do something which the system didn't know how to handle properly at that point (for what little it's worth, you can now see the bottom of an avatar's shoe, if that's important to you).

 

[Safe Bet]

I can understand this, not sure what the fuss is about.

nvm

just noticed date on op

 

[Maxwell House]

Shaowebb's attempts at trolling Kinect are embarrassing.

 

[Bru]

Name ONE title that has you stoked for Kinect as a member of the core demographic that the 360 was originally targeted at. Kinectimals? Dancey dancey look like a tard the game? The line-up is geared towards either women wanting to work out or insanely small children who have no wallets that are easier to passify with floodware, or license titles by parents.

Child of Eden.

Standing in front of my 67 inch DLP
Lights out
Sound system thumping.

Rocking out while I use my hands to fire laser death

You can count me stoked.

 

[DangerousDave]

Child of Eden.

Standing in front of my 67 inch DLP
Lights out
Sound system thumping.

Rocking out while I use my hands to fire laser death

You can count me stoked.

Child of Eden can be used also with a regular controller, so it's not a Kinect killer app.

 

[supermackem]

Ive said this since two e3s ago, will this be able to pick up finger movements etc for precise movements or it is like wii without m+ gestures?. If its the bigger gesture movements i cant see this ever being moulded into real core games.

 

[Alx]

Child of Eden can be used also with a regular controller, so it's not a Kinect killer app.

If kinect adds a new layer to the game, it could be a killer app, even if it can be played with a regular controller. I don't think it will, to be honest, because like Rez it looks like an "experience" that will appeal to a specific public, but not a very big one.

Ive said this since two e3s ago, will this be able to pick up finger movements etc for precise movements or it is like wii without m+ gestures?

At full-body scanning distance (1.8m+), it probably won't be able to have enough precision to pick finger movements. With shorter distances, it will have the precision, but from what we know the software doesn't handle it (yet ?).

I noticed that in the TED Milo demo, "Dimitri" was moving the cursor with his hand, spreading two fingers. I wonder if there is a purpose behind this hand position, but if there is it means that there is already some sort of finger gesture management.

 

[Bru]

Child of Eden can be used also with a regular controller, so it's not a Kinect killer app.

But he didn't ask for a killer app....

Name ONE title that has you stoked for Kinect as a member of the core demographic that the 360 was originally targeted at. Kinectimals?

Shaowebb asked for a title that has you stoked for Kinect as a "core gamer". Child of Eden may be playable with a pad - but playing with Kinect is what actually has me stoked. I simply answered his question.

 

[Woo-Fu]

If kinect adds a new layer to the game, it could be a killer app, even if it can be played with a regular controller. I don't think it will, to be honest, because like Rez it looks like an "experience" that will appeal to a specific public, but not a very big one.

It will add a new layer, a new layer of delay between you and your avatar. Have you watched the videos?

Definitely be interesting to compare kinect versus controller highscores a couple weeks in.

 

[Alx]

It will add a new layer, a new layer of delay between you and your avatar. Have you watched the videos?

Yes it was laggy, but I won't look much into the E3 demos since in the last months and according to different hands-on, we have seen several evolutions of the software, both on performance and features. And Child of Eden isn't even a launch game. The E3 piqued my curiosity, but I'll wait for a more final version to have an opinion on how it controls. (loved the visuals, though...)

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

It will add a new layer, a new layer of delay between you and your avatar. Have you watched the videos?

Definitely be interesting to compare kinect versus controller highscores a couple weeks in.

Because it's all about the scores and not the enjoyment you get out of playing the game.

And the videos are fine.

 

[Alx]

Because it's all about the scores and not the enjoyment you get out of playing the game.

True.
And I'm not even sure that motion control would be at a disadvantage. Lag or not, it is faster to point your fingers in several directions rather than move a cursor around with an analog stick. And there may be "shortcuts" like switching hands allowing for faster reaction than what is possible with a standard cursor.

 

[travisbickle]

Kinect now works perfectly fine with sitting.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/08/19/kinect-dashboard-navigation-works-while-seated

GTA4 something something oscar winning script something

(or any other crap games media regurgitates to appease the games companies)

I'm not saying it doesn't work, but in an age where it would have been easier to upload a video of the thing working, a bullet pointed text of known problems supposedly rectified is a bit suspect.

 

[Alx]

I'm not saying it doesn't work, but in an age where it would have been easier to upload a video of the thing working, a bullet pointed text of known problems supposedly rectified is a bit suspect.

there :
http://www.ted.com/talks/peter_molyneux_demos_milo_the_virtual_boy.html

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

GTA4 something something oscar winning script something

(or any other crap games media regurgitates to appease the games companies)

I'm not saying it doesn't work, but in an age where it would have been easier to upload a video of the thing working, a bullet pointed text of known problems supposedly rectified is a bit suspect.

Seriously? It's a list made by a member of the press who, along with others, got to thoroughly test it out first hand at a gaming conference. This isn't some list Microsoft PR sent out, so to be suspect of it is to suspect that the press are outright lying about Kinect working, which just sounds a bit desperate. Especially the comparison to the GTAIV review. Because playing Kinect sitting and having it work might have just been Joystiq's hyped opinion at the time, right? :lol Regardless, you can see it working fine in the Milo vid so there is your proof.

 

[Chrange]

Seriously? It's a list made by a member of the press who, along with others, got to thoroughly test it out first hand at a gaming conference. This isn't some list Microsoft PR sent out, so to be suspect of it is to suspect that the press are outright lying about Kinect working, which just sounds a bit desperate. Especially the comparison to the GTAIV review. Because playing Kinect sitting and having it work might have just been Joystiq's hyped opinion at the time, right? :lol Regardless, you can see it working fine in the Milo vid so there is your proof.

What am I supposed to believe, preconceived notions or MY LYING EYES?

 

[Wrestlemania]

Child of Eden.

Standing in front of my 67 inch DLP
Lights out
Sound system thumping.

Rocking out while I use my hands to fire laser death

You can count me stoked.

Child of Eden is going to really suffer with the lag. Move is going to be the best way to control that game, by far.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Child of Eden is going to really suffer with the lag. Move is going to be the best way to control that game, by far.

Actually, the game might not have Move support at all, Mizuguchi is still looking into it. And his intended way of playing it is controller-free, the game is being designed around that.

By the way, we have no idea what the lag is going to be like when playing Child of Eden with Kinect. It's not only unfinished, there's also the often mentioned fact that the way you perceive lag when playing a Kinect game differs from the way you perceive it when watching somebody else play it - say, on video.

 

[Bru]

Child of Eden is going to really suffer with the lag. Move is going to be the best way to control that game, by far.

I take it you've played the finished game on both of the final platforms?

 

[NemesisPrime]

Child of Eden is going to really suffer with the lag. Move is going to be the best way to control that game, by far.

This has been confirmed as bullshit by EuroGamer. It works perfectly.

 

[Krev]

Child of Eden is going to be amazing with Kinect.

 

[Maleficence]

Actually, the game might not have Move support at all, Mizuguchi is still looking into it. And his intended way of playing it is controller-free, the game is being designed around that.

That's one bullshit reason for not including Move support when it supports a standard controller.

 

[jiggles]

And his intended way of playing it is controller-free, the game is being designed around that.

Didn't he recently say that wasn't the case in an interview with NowGamer or something?

EDIT: Found it. http://www.nowgamer.com/news/3932/child-of-eden-kinect-not-lead-platform

 

[Wrestlemania]

I take it you've played the finished game on both of the final platforms?

I've played enough of Natal to know there's an inherent lag which is going to be more problematic in this sort of game.

This has been confirmed as bullshit by EuroGamer. It works perfectly.

Where? The preview where they watched it being played by Miziguchi? They didn't mention lag in that.

 

[Psychotext]

Where? The preview where they watched it being played by Miziguchi? They didn't mention lag in that.

I hope you're not basing your lag impressions off the massive screen vs his movements... because those things add serious lag to everything, including demonstrations of the Wii, and that EA fitness thing.

There's a lot of processing going on there, and they're not exactly designed with lag as a consideration.

Edit - Ahh, I see, you're talking about "inherent" lag you've noticed whilst playing it yourself.

 

[El-Suave]

I'm really curious about if and how voice control will work. We haven't seen much if anything post E3 if I'm not mistaken.
The Kinect mic will have to catch the voice command while you're watching a movie or playing a game, that's a competing soundscape.

 

[Wrestlemania]

I hope you're not basing your lag impressions off the massive screen vs his movements... because those things add serious lag to everything, including demonstrations of the Wii, and that EA fitness thing.

There's a lot of processing going on there, and they're not exactly designed with lag as a consideration.

Edit - Ahh, I see, you're talking about "inherent" lag you've noticed whilst playing it yourself.

I'm not saying it'll definitely be there, obviously I haven't played it and there's no impressions from people who have, but it's there in other games I've played which are using 'pointer' controls. Maybe as people get to grips with it they'll be able to minimise it, but I'm not expecting it to disappear completely.
Eurogamer also mentioned that it looks like there's a weight to the cursor as if there's some resistance to it's movement. Sounds like it could be a result of lag to me.
I think Move pointer control, if it makes it into the PS3 version, will be the best control method. The Move wand has vibration as well, right?

 

[Shurs]

Having no decent titles at launch. Subjective. I'll be picking up Kinectimals and Dance Central, at least. Ah, and Children of Eden.

Children of Eden doesn't come out until next year.

 

[NemesisPrime]

I'm really curious about if and how voice control will work. We haven't seen much if anything post E3 if I'm not mistaken.
The Kinect mic will have to catch the voice command while you're watching a movie or playing a game, that's a competing soundscape.

There is a chip (dsp?) inside the Kinect device that does that (as good as possible). Voice recognition is not always easy.