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[Kenzodielocke]

Kickstarter, huh ?

Spoiler

half-joking.

 

[Aaronrules380]

He also creates Fox Engine and addition updates on it so Konami can make new games on the engine more efficiently.
So in the end, Kojima isn't just about MGS.
Konami will profit a lot from Kojima Fox Engine.

How involved was he in that though? Can you honestly say it couldn't have been created without him? Because I highly doubt that he was anywhere near as integral to the process as the lead programmers and people like that

 

[SolidSnakex]

The thing about Silent Hills is that it even had non gamers very interested in it. Just based on P.T. alone it looked like a big comeback for that franchise and it looked like Kojima was about to give it the proper attention it deserved.

I definitely think that Silent Hills would've been the best selling game in the series. But would it have sold enough to make up for the budget? There's no telling if he was planning on picking up even more people from Hollywood with that game, which would boost the budget even more. Like I said before, neither Del Toro or Reedus were needed for a Silent Hill game.

So, Kojima is now bad guy?

No, nothing about this should really surprise anyone. He's always been a guy that's obsessive about details to the point that it's going to be expensive. There was no reason to have ice cubes melt in MGS2, but it's something he wants so it happened. That's also why we love him. He's one of the few designers that was allowed and would just go all out for a project. Even with the tiniest details.

 

[Ikuu]

I'd love to see the mess that would be a Kojima Kickstarter.

 

[Ryan_MSF]

"The main reason for the falling out, at least in her opinion..."

I don't know if this is newsworthy. She obviously didn't work on MGS V herself so the only knowledge she really has is that he didn't use a lot of her songs back in the day. Everything else simply seems to be her jumping to conclusions because of her past experiences (which happened over 10 years ago).

This is exactly my frame of mind, a lot of the comments seemed to be "the music has taken a hit since i'm not involved" if she's been a major part of the series from the beginning it's natural she'd a bit pissed about it and make comments that come off a bit on the salty side.

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

It's as if they're unfamiliar with MGS 1, 2, 3, AND 4.

 

[dmr87]

Please look forward to our next Metal Gear game, coming exclusively to iOS and Android in 2016.

 

[plutoknight]

How involved was he in that though? Can you honestly say it couldn't have been created without him? Because I highly doubt that he was anywhere near as integral to the process as the lead programmers and people like that

Yeah but they disbanded his entire team, not just him......unless no one at KojiPro worked on the engine at all, which is highly unlikely.

 

[TGO]

Has a MGS game ever flopped? If not I don't see the problem other then being picky.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Why do you care so much about publishers profits? You're a gamer first of all. Kojima was sacked because he was trying to stand up for you and all us gamers. That's why fuck Konami.

Huh.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

Has a MGS game ever flopped?

Peace Walker

and it's a flop when considered against expectations. If it takes Kojima 5 years to make a metal gear game and it makes it's money back but only a small profit after that then it might as well have been a loss. From a business perspective, that money could've instead been used throughout those years on different projects that would've brought in more money overall. they see it as a chance to have had more and bigger ROIs.

 

[WickedLaharl]

So basically kojima's uncaring unlimited budget attitude killed other konami franchises.

 

[BadWolf]

How involved was he in that though? Can you honestly say it couldn't have been created without him? Because I highly doubt that he was anywhere near as integral to the process as the lead programmers and people like that

Have you seen what happened to the original Metal Gear Rising without his involvement?

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

"you're all going to be ashamed when you find out why Kojima has been removed from everything."

-Konami

 

[blakep267]

I think there's a difference between not shipping a broken game and not shipping a perfectly fine game but you wanna keep increasing the scale just because.

Things have a budget and time table. If I'm investing x amount of dollars and I want a return in this time period, you can't keep pushing stuff back for your own issues. That's not how business works. Not unless you are running the company yourself.

Plus from the quotes, it seems that the fact that he's salaries rubbed people the wrong way. He has no stake in a sense since he's still getting his no matter what

That may have been okay before mobile and pachinko games weren't the new draw and more profitable

 

[thomasmahler]

Why do so many people here think he'll do a Kickstarter? Pretty sure he could go to most publishers and ask for a sizable budget for the next series he wants to create and get it.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what he'll do. He'll get representation and just make another deal with a publisher and form his own, new studio. That makes the most amount of sense.

Maybe a Kickstarter will be part of this, just to get some extra money in and for the marketing value, but I doubt he'd have to rely on a fully Kickstarter-funded project at all.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

This doesn't really change anything... he's the director, he has to have the creative freedom and it's expected of him to know where to take things. Sure it sucks if he's going over budget, but fucking hell, if a person creates a series like Metal Gear Solid, which made huge amounts of money for Konami and by now is the only worthwhile franchise they have left that hasn't been left in the dust, he's probably still worth it. I'm very surprised to hear that Kojima didn't even ask for a larger cut of the profit his games made.

And yeah, sometimes you create work during development that just doesn't come together and then you ditch it, that's a natural part of the process. A painter puts down a couple of brushstrokes and if he doesn't like them, he paints over them. The same applies to everything art-related. How many pages does a writer write and then throws them away only to come up with something better. The trick is in keeping the process going, you keep doing it to get that idea that you've been looking for.

On Ori, I designed countless levels and decided they weren't good enough. Our composer also created quite a few tracks that weren't good enough for us, so they were re-made. It's all good and throw-away work is ALWAYS part of the creative process.

If a publisher doesn't understand that there's throw-away work, then they just don't get how the development process works. Disney used to throw out twice the amount of animation that'd actually go into their final films, simply because you HAVE TO fuck around with things a little in order to move things forward.

In the end, I always think that the only thing that matters is the final output - and business wise, the only thing that matters is what the games make, bottom-line. I just fancy a guess, but I'm thinking even with his budget-overruns, the MGS series probably still is very, very, very profitable for Konami. Ditching Kojima, who's been the director of their most lucrative series for almost 20 years is just not a good move.

Great post just one thing, he worked on the Metal Gear series for almost 30 years and not 20.

ssssssh S4nic, no tears now

The shit you posted isn't even confirmed, so you completely failed to put "RUMOR" in the thread title. Good job.

 

[AWizardDidIt]

This always seemed self-evident to me. I found it so strange how people jumped to assume some kind of conspiracy that Konami was out to screw Kojima when it was always much more likely they couldn't continue to indulge his extravagant requirements as a producer.

 

[Corpsepyre]

*Salutes Big Boss*

Fuck Konami as usual.

 

[Tabris]

Creative types will always be like that. Kojima was just acting like most movie directors. Which is a good thing.

Konami was just a bad producer to not be able to reign him in.

Next publisher Kojima ends up working with most likely won't have same issues.

 

[Hatchtag]

Apparently Kojima was super expensive, he was getting payed a fixed rate regardless of how much the game sells.

Well no shit that's going to end up super expensive. There's no reason for him not to spend everything he can. It's not his money.

 

[hal9001]

Not like ordinary people suffer when a company is doing poorly, mirite. Who cares if one man's poor business decisions might lead to a bunch of people losing their jobs as a way of dealing with the costs. I mean, screw compassion for other human beings as long as we get an awesome game. I'm not even siding with Konami in particular in this case so much as saying that a business trying to make money isn't evil. Businesses making money is what drives the economy, and ultimately that can come back to other people as well.

It's super entitled to think businesses shouldn't care about making money so that you can have a product you like for entertainment. Real people can suffer from that. As is, companies like Konami are moving away from games because it hasn't been making as much money as it used to, and I honestly think part of that is because consumers like us often make demands that aren't really reasonable

I can see where you are coming from, but then again my role as a gamer is to demand the very best for my money's worth. Gaming is expensive these days alike for both creators and consumers. While I concede that companies primarily try to make the most profit they can that doesn't mean they should hold back on features or shipping broken/incomplete games. Maybe Kojima wanted more and more but can we really blame him? He's an old school developer always trying to outdo himself. He's main priority was to make the best game possible for us and as a result he was punished for it.

 

[SinShep]

If Sony does end up picking up Kojima after this, does anyone think they'd be willing to give him the budget and schedule he'd want for his next game, considering this is the reason why he got fired?

 

[Aaronrules380]

Yeah but they disbanded his entire team, not just him......unless no one at KojiPro worked on the engine at all, which is highly unlikely.

Yeah, but that's how businesses work in all honesty. Not saying that's right either, but f course they'll fire a team if they have nobody else to lead them. Especially since Konami isn't captivated by the industries prospects anymore in general. Konami certainly isn't blameless, but if Kojima's been making poor business decisions for the sake of perfectionism, he also has a good share of the blame for getting all the people on his team fired. When you get to a position like that, you are responsible for the people under you, not just yourself. So yeah, I feel that makes parading Kojima's "artistic vision" kind of bad, since your applauding actions that got a lot of people fired, many of whom probably had no fault of their own

 

[Village]

You do realize videogames aren't their main source of income right? They have plenty of money.

Actually I thought it was all the slot machine, pachinko , gambling business they are trying to get started up in japan

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

If Sony does end up picking up Kojima after this, does anyone think they'd be willing to give him the budget and schedule he'd want for his next game, considering this is the reason why he got fired?

Sony write blank cheques for Polyphony Digital on an ongoing basis, they basically let Naughty Dog do whatever they want, they keep funding The Last Guardian.

 

[RM8]

Why do you care so much about publishers profits? You're a gamer first of all. Kojima was sacked because he was trying to stand up for you and all us gamers. That's why fuck Konami.

Because now you MGS fans will never get another Kojima MGS game. I can only hope the games I enjoy are produced with at least some business sensibility, so that they don't become non-viable.

 

[Ryan_MSF]

Yeah, but that's how businesses work in all honesty. Not saying that's right either, but f course they'll fire a team if they have nobody else to lead them. Especially since Konami isn't captivated by the industries prospects anymore in general. Konami certainly isn't blameless, but if Kojima's been making poor business decisions for the sake of perfectionism, he also has a good share of the blame for getting all the people on his team fired. When you get to a position like that, you are responsible for the people under you, not just yourself. So yeah, I feel that makes parading Kojima's "artistic vision" kind of bad, since your applauding actions that got a lot of people fired, many of whom probably had no fault of their own

tldr: this is all kojimas fault and konami are completely blameless.

 

[Boke1879]

This doesn't really change anything... he's the director, he has to have the creative freedom and it's expected of him to know where to take things. Sure it sucks if he's going over budget, but fucking hell, if a person creates a series like Metal Gear Solid, which made huge amounts of money for Konami and by now is the only worthwhile franchise they have left that hasn't been left in the dust, he's probably still worth it. I'm very surprised to hear that Kojima didn't even ask for a larger cut of the profit his games made.

And yeah, sometimes you create work during development that just doesn't come together and then you ditch it, that's a natural part of the process. A painter puts down a couple of brushstrokes and if he doesn't like them, he paints over them. The same applies to everything art-related. How many pages does a writer write and then throws them away only to come up with something better. The trick is in keeping the process going, you keep doing it to get that idea that you've been looking for.

On Ori, I designed countless levels and decided they weren't good enough. Our composer also created quite a few tracks that weren't good enough for us, so they were re-made. It's all good and throw-away work is ALWAYS part of the creative process.

If a publisher doesn't understand that there's throw-away work, then they just don't get how the development process works. Disney used to throw out twice the amount of animation that'd actually go into their final films, simply because you HAVE TO fuck around with things a little in order to move things forward.

In the end, I always think that the only thing that matters is the final output - and business wise, the only thing that matters is what the games make, bottom-line. I just fancy a guess, but I'm thinking even with his budget-overruns, the MGS series probably still is very, very, very profitable for Konami. Ditching Kojima, who's been the director of their most lucrative series for almost 20 years is just not a good move.

You worked on Ori? Wow. Thanks for the post by the way.

 

[border]

It was always painfully obvious that Kojima was basically burning money over at Konami. 5-7 year development time, massive investment into an MGS online mode that nobody will give 2 fucks about, hiring Hollywood voice actors instead of talent that would probably work for scale.

But there was a subset of fans who were content to stick their heads in the sand over the whole thing. "Konami just hates Kojima 'cause Konami is stupid and doesn't know what they are doing!" As if they would kill the goose that laid the golden egg out of stupidity or spite or something?

 

[Aaronrules380]

I can see where you are coming from, but then again my role as a gamer is to demand the very best for my money's worth. Gaming is expensive these days alike for both creators and consumers. While I concede that companies primarily try to make the most profit they can that doesn't mean they should hold back on features or shipping broken/incomplete games. Maybe Kojima wanted more and more but can we really blame him? He's an old school developer always trying to outdo himself. He's main priority was to make the best game possible for us and as a result he was punished for it.

The problem is a lot of people under him were punished for his actions as well. And I honestly do think we as gamer's are to blame for this system as well in part. We keep demanding super high tech specs and production values, which leads to games being made on unreasonable budgets. Gaming is expensive, but it's actually less expensive than ever when you account for stuff like inflation. The cost of games rise a ton each generation, but the price we pay remains relatively constant, which ultimately is just as much a part of why they need to aim for unreasonably high sales

 

[LordBaztion]

I can just imagine how insanely expensive Silent Hills would have to be, mostly being a forgotten IP in a limited genre.

 

[outunderthestars]

If Sony does end up picking up Kojima after this, does anyone think they'd be willing to give him the budget and schedule he'd want for his next game, considering this is the reason why he got fired?

After The Last Guardian? Nope.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Not like ordinary people suffer when a company is doing poorly, mirite. Who cares if one man's poor business decisions might lead to a bunch of people losing their jobs as a way of dealing with the costs. I mean, screw compassion for other human beings as long as we get an awesome game. I'm not even siding with Konami in particular in this case so much as saying that a business trying to make money isn't evil. Businesses making money is what drives the economy, and ultimately that can come back to other people as well.

It's super entitled to think businesses shouldn't care about making money so that you can have a product you like for entertainment. Real people can suffer from that. As is, companies like Konami are moving away from games because it hasn't been making as much money as it used to, and I honestly think part of that is because consumers like us often make demands that aren't really reasonable

Then the business shouldn't be in an artistic industry.

If they want to move product, they should go move product in either the AAA or mobile space. But if they're making money off of making art, there are sacrifices that have to be made in terms of profitablility.

 

[Spaghetti]

given the fact that konami has asked him to keep making mgs for years and years, plus the fact he helped them merchandise the shit out of that series, i have a hard time thinking only this year konami said "he costs too much".

 

[brau]

You can't put a price on Greatness.

Greatness awaits.

 

[nded]

I'd like to see what Kojima can actually do on a limited budget.

 

[Heroman]

If Sony does end up picking up Kojima after this, does anyone think they'd be willing to give him the budget and schedule he'd want for his next game, considering this is the reason why he got fired?

no, I took t him almost 7 years to make a mgs5, no game company in the planet would allow him to do that.

 

[thomasmahler]

Great post just one thing, he worked on the Metal Gear series for almost 30 years and not 20.

If you count the NES series, sure. It's part of the whole deal, but there were a good 10 or so years where he didn't work on Metal Gear and then he just rebooted it - I always felt like MGS really started and became successful with Solid.

 

[Aaronrules380]

tldr: this is all kojimas fault and konami are completely blameless.

No, Konami isn't blameless. But neither is Kojima. Konami has done a lot of things poorly in the situation, like trying to get rid of all traces of Kojima's name. But just because Konami is wrong doesn't mean Kojima is right either. Sometimes both sides are in the wrong.

 

[brau]

No, Konami isn't blameless. But neither is Kojima. Konami has done a lot of things poorly in the situation, like trying to get rid of all traces of Kojima's name. But just because Konami is wrong doesn't mean Kojima is right either. Sometimes both sides are in the wrong.

It has been discussed that the removal of his name might be something that Kojima requested or negotiated. As a lot of us are sure, when he starts his own studio or whatever he does next, he'll want to use the same tag line.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

After The Last Guardian? Nope.

TLG never had a big budget.

 

[L Thammy]

I had figured that internal politics were also involved. It seemed like Kojima had way more power than a single game developer usually did. Recently, it seemed like their classic franchises were only allowed to live if they had Kojima's name on them.

 

[Boke1879]

It was always painfully obvious that Kojima was basically burning money over at Konami. 5-7 year development time, massive investment into an MGS online mode that nobody will give 2 fucks about, hiring Hollywood voice actors instead of talent that would probably work for scale.

But there was a subset of fans who were content to stick their heads in the sand over the whole thing. "Konami just hates Kojima 'cause Konami is stupid and doesn't know what they are doing!" As if they would kill the goose that laid the golden egg out of stupidity or spite or something?

Kiefer is the only voice talent so far. Highly doubt he ballooned the budget. Also lets not forget. Kojima made the Fox Engine which makes everything more efficient. Konami owns that and will no doubt profit off the engine he created.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Then the business shouldn't be in an artistic industry.

If they want to move product, they should go move product in either the AAA or mobile space. But if they're making money off of making art, there are sacrifices that have to be made in terms of profitablility.

You realize this is exactly why Konami is moving away from gaming. And the thing is, compromise is a fact of life. If you're unwilling to accept and work within the rules and limitations laid out for you, you'll get nothing. I think we as gamers are part of the problem. We make a lot of really unreasonable demands, so it's no wonder companies don't really want to work with us anymore.

 

[The Lamp]

no, It him almost 7 years to make a mgs5, no game company in the planet would allow him to do that.

Isn't this dishonest? He made Peace Walkers, bro. And was involved with stuff like Metal Gear Rising.

 

[Rymuth]

XD

*saved*

 

[BadWolf]

After The Last Guardian? Nope.

The Last Guardian isn't using a huge budget.

Horizon has a much bigger budget than TLG.

 

[TheChaos]

It's as if they're unfamiliar with MGS 1, 2, 3, AND 4.

Keep in mind those games came out prior to the Japanese market shift.

 

[Krejlooc]

If you count the NES series, sure. It's part of the whole deal, but there were a good 10 or so years where he didn't work on Metal Gear and then he just rebooted it - I always felt like MGS really started and became successful with Solid.

The MSX games were hugely popular (relative to their audience), and the main series he worked on in between - Snatcher - is a spin off of Metal Gear.