SinShep
Member
But remember that PW was originally going to be MGS V, until Konami said otherwise and made him change the name.
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Kojima was too expensive apparently
- Thread starter Jindrax
- Start date
But remember that PW was originally going to be MGS V, until Konami said otherwise and made him change the name.
Its hard to say that Kojima made Fox Engine... his team made it possible, and of course, its tech that will most probably stay with Konami.
Kojima might've had certain direction or need from the engine based on how he likes to work.
Just think its kinda funny when people say one man is responsible for something that comes from a big team. I am sure Fox Engine is the work of tons of people.
Not buying the he said she said reason personally. I understand that he was on a fixed salary but this wasn't out of the ordinary.
What would Konami be waiting for to not comment on this earlier? I remember they said they will say what happened when they are at liberty to do so. What would have been holding them back if it were just a case of Kojima mishandling the business side of things?
There is something Konami is waiting for. Something they are not at liberty to share before it is announced. There's something going on. Legal battle? poaching? something.
What would Konami be waiting for to not comment on this earlier? I remember they said they will say what happened when they are at liberty to do so. What would have been holding them back if it were just a case of Kojima mishandling the business side of things?
There is something Konami is waiting for. Something they are not at liberty to share before it is announced. There's something going on. Legal battle? poaching? something.
Spaced Harrier
Member
I'm fucking cringing in this thread.
TLG is peanuts compared to AAA budgets. I don't remember where to find the info but it's budget has been relatively meager iirc.
Metal Gear Solid isn't Grand Theft Auto, but I get the impression that Kojima was nearing a budget akin to that.
He had a game studio in LA built for a portion of the game.
If Konami fired him because they didn't think he was making the right business decisions (and he wasn't, following MGS4 with a fully-fledged MGS game for the PSP isn't the smartest move) I understand, but it's still a huge mistake.
They ought to have given MGSV 6 months before firing Kojima.
He had a game studio in LA built for a portion of the game.
If Konami fired him because they didn't think he was making the right business decisions (and he wasn't, following MGS4 with a fully-fledged MGS game for the PSP isn't the smartest move) I understand, but it's still a huge mistake.
They ought to have given MGSV 6 months before firing Kojima.
If a publisher doesn't make profits then they will kill that franchise or go bankrupt.
I dont really see the whole Kojima trying to stand up for gamers rather than him just being himself. It sucks how everything went down, hopefully one day the full story will come out.
JuanLatino
Member
so youre telling me Kojima is an Director that is not driven by profit, trying to throw out the game as fast as possible, milking the franchise, not caring about performance.....because this is how the industry works
So kojima doesn't know how the industry works??
Hes an perfectionist, and i love that about him. But its also understandable from Konamis perspective....i guess
but why did they have to act this irrevently? Putting out his name from the games and the logo from kojima productions
All this theater is what disgusts me most about Konami and how they threat this man
So kojima doesn't know how the industry works??
Hes an perfectionist, and i love that about him. But its also understandable from Konamis perspective....i guess
but why did they have to act this irrevently? Putting out his name from the games and the logo from kojima productions
All this theater is what disgusts me most about Konami and how they threat this man
I'm sure Kojima had a lot of input in the development of the Fox Engine, but I don't think it would be accurate to say he created it himself.
thomasmahler
Member
A few things. I'd ASSUME that the Multiplayer / Online stuff probably was a request from Konami, not Kojima himself. I'm just guessing here, but I'd think that Kojima would be perfectly happy not doing Multiplayer, but instead just focus on the Single Player and the stories he writes. I'd guess that Multiplayer was something Konami thought would add tremendous value to the value proposition of MGS4. We'll probably never know, but I'd think that this wasn't necessarily a Kojima decision.
You'd be surprised... It could easily be that Kojima didn't make a lot of friends cause he wanted to follow his visions and wouldn't give in. This kinda shit has ALWAYS been the problem between creatives and business people - Creatives want to strife for perfection and release products that are absolutely perfect in every way. And business people's job is to let these people do just that, but keep the spending in check. In an ideal world, that could work fine and a good producer and some limits can absolutely help the creative process... but he's been one of their prime creators for 20+ years and probably just wanted to do more and more and go crazier and crazier. He probably thought he deserves that after all the work he put into creating this IP for Konami and Konami probably thought he'd be reasonable since they gave him a lot of freedom to create. In the end, things just don't always work out.
TLG ?
Lets not forget Sony's DemonNite posted in Kojima and Del toro's next project thread and said this "Good - can't wait to see what it is 
"
Also this guy seems to know something too.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=172925543&postcount=280
So i think chances are pretty good that Sony will take care of Kojima and his team.
It's either Sony or Kojima will leave the industry is my prediction.
"Also this guy seems to know something too.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=172925543&postcount=280
So i think chances are pretty good that Sony will take care of Kojima and his team.
It's either Sony or Kojima will leave the industry is my prediction.
Round of applause for Kojima wanting to stick to his guns by following the artistic vision and make a perfect product with no short cuts and downgrades.
Let him find a place that shares the same vision as him where the product comes first. This game will be worth every penny come release, I can tell.
Let him find a place that shares the same vision as him where the product comes first. This game will be worth every penny come release, I can tell.
Personally, I'm taking any publicly given reason not coming from Kojima/Konami as to the reason for Kojima and Kojima Productions dismissal with a grain of salt. Too much "He said, she said" type stuff coming out, and while it could be true it could also be false. I dislike people talking trash against Kojima and Konami (Yes, even Konami, despite how shitty they've been lately in regards to other things) without knowing the the truth and facts.
At this point, I just hope that Phantom Pain is everything that's been promised and winds up as a glorious send off to one of my favorite gaming franchises ever.
At this point, I just hope that Phantom Pain is everything that's been promised and winds up as a glorious send off to one of my favorite gaming franchises ever.
HE represents his team and his team represents him. No doubt he had a commanding hand in that engine though.
I find it BS that Konami is totally scrubbing Kojima Productions from the game.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Since Metal Gear Solid 4, which came out in 2008, he has worked on Peace Walker (2010) and, since then, Fox Engine (used by two years of PES games) and Ground Zeroes (2014) have been worked on. In just over a month we will see the fruits of the labours of that development in The Phantom Pain.
He also worked as Executive Producer on Castlevania Lords of Shadow (2010) and producer on Twelve Tender Killers (2008) and Gaitame Baibai Trainer: Kabutore FX (2009). His involvement in these was probably limited though.
He was also the producer of the Sdatcher radio drama in 2011 and pretty much the face of every single Metal Gear and Zone of the Enders collection.
I don't think Konami values having their own engine that much simply because their output is so infrequent. I have to peg that as a vanity project of Kojima's......everyone else would have been likely satisfied using 3rd party middleware, but he has to build his own engine from the ground up.
How are they going to profit off of the Fox Engine? The market for licensing technology is already overcrowded.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
I figured this was more the case if true than anything else... if anyone needed someone to keep them in check in this day and age it was him.
Sad, but I'm sure he's gonna land on his feet just fine.
Sad, but I'm sure he's gonna land on his feet just fine.
Exactly. Konami and Kojima have had issues for YEARS. It didn't just start with this game. Which is why I'm taking this with a grain of salt as well.
It's possible this just gave them a reason to give him the axe though.
SuperInuit
Member
That is so unsurprising, but props to the guy for being about the quality of the product and general artistry over business sense. Not many of that kinda person left.
SinShep
Member
Even if it Konami's decision made sense, this still means that TPP is likely going to be the best Metal Gear to date.
The simply fact that it is it can be scaled up or down. Kinda agree now it won't be used as much now that Kojima is gone but I'm sure it would have gotten heavy use had he still been there.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
He'd fit in with Rockstar.
lol no
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Snatcher, outside of a couple of references, has zero to do with metal gear.
Come on now, a lot of big devs use their own proprietary engine to realise the vision of their games now.
FrostBite, AnvilNext, CryEngine, RAGE etc. It's not crazy that Kojima wanted an engine that would work for an open world and had the bonus of being used in other franchises like PES.
Exactly lol... Conan is hilarious.
I completely agree... but its the sad truth of this kind of corporations... everything you make with this entity belongs to them. Like here at work... everything i make in the building is owned by the company. NO other way around.
I do think Kojima being a pillar of Konami makes a big impact when leaving. Specially when its all under wraps. I hope at some point we learn more about his departure and how it was handled. Because right now it looks really bad.
Exactly why I'm taking this with a grain of salt. Kojima and Konami's issues didn't just start with this games budget. I think they've been having issues since MGS2
I believe it was his kojipro team but yeah the man didn't go in a corner by himself and made the fox engine.
OT- None of the MGS games have flopped, Konami didn't let him do nothing else, so yeah if a man has nothing else but rep of being a perfectionist who always creates profits for the company. I don't see Konami side on the matter if it was costs. If they wanted they could have used the leftover tracks to make albums. Konami was still in the wrong here
Not exactly surprising that Konami finally balked when the series went from 3-4 year development cycles for linear content to a 7 year development cycle for open world content with a big name actor. Shouldn't have signed off on it in the first place, really, but hindsight and all that.
MG2 came out in 1990, MG3's design document was written up in 1994. Not much of a break.
MG2 came out in 1990, MG3's design document was written up in 1994. Not much of a break.
Love Deterrence
Member
For games, yes. Lol
RevolverRoden
Member
So I'm guessing September is still too early for Kojima. Heh.
Fuck
Aaronrules380
Member
I honestly hate this idea that artistic vision requires a completely uncompromising attitude. I feel like there are always little things that most won't notice that can easily be cut down on. I feel like a totally uncompromising attitude is more for the creator's ego than the fans
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
I like Kojima a lot and Kinami did fuck up how the managed the PR about it... But this is not surprising and makes sense about Konami cutting ties.
It ties into metal gear repeatedly. The two series' plots are very heavily linked, and continue to be linked in modern metal gear games.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Again, if Kojima negotiated for the use of his name after leaving Konami, they'd have to scrub Kojima Productions from the game. I seriously doubt this is some bizarre action out of spite like so many people are making it out to be.
They don't really need games...so no. If Kojima links with some other company, you can bet your ass he doesn't get to fuck around with big money the same way anymore.
Kojima doesn't seem like the sort off developer Nintendo would want. At all.
THIS! Just tell him to chill out and we're not paying for this extra shit.