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Kotaku Rumor: PS4 out in November, control with your phone/tablet, maybe $429/529

F

FordGTGuy

Banned
oops double post. D:

Kiyo said:
This isn't true. They tried requiring Gold with the first Gears of War on PC I believe it was and it absolutely failed.
Click to expand...

If I remember correctly online play itself was always free but matchmaking and cross-platform play required gold.

This is a misconception we’re working hard to correct. There is no charge for Games for Windows – LIVE membership, and it offers a multiplayer experience PC gamers expect while introducing completely new functionality to online gaming on Windows. A no-charge Silver membership offers PC to PC multiplayer play, in-game voice chat, cross-game chat, single-player achievements and a unique identity across multiple games.

We do offer a paid Gold subscription that adds features you can’t find on other services, like cross-platform with the Xbox 360, enhanced matchmaking to find gamers of the same skill or rank and the ability to earn multiplayer achievements. Anyone who already has a Gold membership on Xbox LIVE automatically has a Gold membership on Games for Windows – LIVE with their same gamertag. It’s the same network. And for gamers who aren’t Gold already, the subscription is about US$4 a month – and works on both Xbox 360 and Games for Windows- LIVE compatible games.
Click to expand...

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/features/2007/jul07/07-11gamesforwindows.aspx
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
Razgreez said:
Do elaborate as to exactly how they are different? Because the infrastructure is exactly the same
Click to expand...

One is open, the other is behind a closed wall and thus isn't able to take advantage of the same environment or offer the same options the open approach allows.

Looking at infrastructure alone only gives you partial picture.
 
F

Fistwell

Member
FordGTGuy said:
The point, that you seem to be ignoring as it negates your point, is that as bad as Xbox Live might be there are pay to play services on PC even worse, World of Warcraft and Eve Online to name a few.
Click to expand...
Lol that same model exists on consoles, as mentioned in my previous post. However, on xbox, it exists on top of the pay-for-p2p-wall. In addition, that does not negate the fact that if I want to play cod online on PC (or most any other online game) I pay nothing extra. If I want to do that on xbox, I have to pay for a subscription for it. Which was my original point.
 
O

Ozzykamikaze

Member
FordGTGuy said:
For one without the service provided by AT&T and the product supplied by Samsung you wouldn't be able to buy the apps on your phone.

In other words you might not be buying the app from AT&T or Samsung but the service from AT&T is needed to do so.

The completely wrong and funny part is that you implied that people don't buy apps and media on their phones.

By the way some providers and manufacturers do in fact have their own app and media stores you can purchase from.
Click to expand...

That is entirely unrelated to the discussion. The point is that you purchase the phone to use their service. You don't exclusively buy a console to use their services, not necessarily.

You can use a console completely divorced of any of its services. You can not use a cell phone without the services.

Its about as simple as its gonna get.

As far as the price... if you could set aside a couple dollars every day and send it to me, that'd be great, thanks. After 8 years, it'll be thousands, but don't worry, its only a couple dollars a day, you won't even notice it.
 
F

fallagin

Member
Miles Quaritch said:
One is open, the other is behind a closed wall and thus isn't able to take advantage of the same environment or offer the same options the open approach allows.

Looking at infrastructure alone only gives you partial picture.
Click to expand...

But Microsoft is the one that puts up the closed wall in the first place. It's not like they are restricted by it, in fact it has tended to make them a lot of money.
 
F

FordGTGuy

Banned
Ozzykamikaze said:
That is entirely unrelated to the discussion. The point is that you purchase the phone to use their service. You don't exclusively buy a console to use their services, not necessarily.

You can use a console completely divorced of any of its services. You can not buy a cell phone without the services.

Its about as simple as its gonna get.

As far as the price... if you could set aside a couple dollars every day and send it to me, that'd be great, thanks. After 8 years, it'll be thousands, but don't worry, its only a couple dollars a day, you won't even notice it.
Click to expand...

Plenty of people do in fact buy a Xbox 360 to use the services it provides.

You can in fact buy a cell phone without the services, modern cell phones can even be useful off the network with Wi-Fi.
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
fallagin said:
But Microsoft is the one that puts up the closed wall in the first place. It's not like they are restricted by it, in fact it has tended to make them a lot of money.
Click to expand...

That's my point. We're comparing a closed wall approach that offers no options to one that offers a considerably large number of options. In that way, bringing up PC gaming doesn't serve to help the discussion.

Anyway, I fear we're derailing the thread with all this talk, so let's get back on point.
 
O

Ozzykamikaze

Member
FordGTGuy said:
Plenty of people do in fact buy a Xbox 360 to use the services it provides.

You can in fact buy a cell phone without the services, modern cell phones can even be useful off the network with Wi-Fi.
Click to expand...

Alright, I'm done. Too late at night to play semantics. Xboxes also make excellent paper weights, but we were talking about the primary purposes.
 
T

tzare

Member
Ozzykamikaze said:
That is entirely unrelated to the discussion. The point is that you purchase the phone to use their service. You don't exclusively buy a console to use their services, not necessarily.

You can use a console completely divorced of any of its services. You can not use a cell phone without the services.

Its about as simple as its gonna get.

As far as the price... if you could set aside a couple dollars every day and send it to me, that'd be great, thanks. After 8 years, it'll be thousands, but don't worry, its only a couple dollars a day, you won't even notice it.
Click to expand...


there is no discussion if you are not going to play online, as you won't be paying anything on any console. It affects people that play online, which is the main reason why people pay for live. Ans you may not notice a couple of dollars a day, lucky you, bot others do, especially if there is more than one user in the same house, because online is tied to account, not he console itself.

but we were talking about the primary purposes.
Click to expand...
primary purpose is to play games, and considering most sold games are for example COD, with a heavy online component, i would say you are wrong
 
F

FordGTGuy

Banned
tzare said:
there is no discussion if you are not going to play online, as you won't be paying anything on any console. It affects people that play online, which is the main reason why people pay for live. Ans you may not notice a couple of dollars a day, lucky you, bot others do, especially if there is more than one user in the same house, because online is tied to account, not he console itself.
Click to expand...

$.16 a day, where are you guys getting a few dollars a day from?

If Xbox Live was $2 a day it would cost $730 a year....

If you can get 3 people you can trust on a family plan you could be paying $25 a year instead of $60.

That would be $.06 a day instead.
 
F

funkystudent

Member
If Sony can create a premium online service that has value to it more then "we put youtube/netflix/the browser behind a paywall" then I am for it.

Features like Gakiai, cloud storage and Live gameplay streaming and video storage are good premium features that I cant see existing if they are not paid for.

I just want them to keep basic online gaming and access to apps free.
 
RoadHazard

RoadHazard

Gold Member
FordGTGuy said:
Do you really want to start this discussion because it won't end well.

Looks at every pay to play MMO on PC.
Click to expand...

There's a very, very large difference between a game that is completely dependent on and mostly runs on remote servers provided by a company, and a game that relies completely upon P2P connections provided by the people playing it. Paying for the latter is rather outrageous.
 
E

Evoga

Member
$529!! They need to understand the world financial problems that are only going to get worse. People will have less available spending resources so they need to lower the price by a big margin.
 
H

Hindle

Banned
I thought Sony would charge next gen. The only reason they made online free was to try and stop Live, they failed. Now MS make billions whilst Sony make pennies lol.

They'll probably offer a barebones service that's free, but in order to get the best experience you will need to pay
 
J

jamsy

Member
Late to the thread, but is it conceivable that if you pay for PS Plus in its current form, then that would allow you to also play online once (if?) Sony starts charging for its online services?
 
B

Black Republican

Member
i donno if its been done before but what about if Sony offers Free online gaming but you can only play people in your own region? Example: Free online users in North America vs other North Americans, Europe/UK vs UK etc. Paying users get worldwide MP.
 
S

spock

Member
I dont see the uproar in paying yearly sub for premimum access. I do see a problem charging above $400 for the damn console.
 
A

alstein

Member
spock said:
I dont see the uproar in paying yearly sub for premimum access. I do see a problem charging above $400 for the damn console.
Click to expand...

It's an uproar because it's something that is free on PC. It's a junk fee and everyone knows it. It also adds up over 5 years. I'd rather pay 500 with no online free than 400 with an online fee (unless the online fee was like 10/yr)

Lets put it this way: 350+ 5*60 online fee= 650. That's worse than 500, even if you factor in 5 years of inflation. I just wish more people did the math.

Given how my PS3 has exclusively become a FG machine, and these days I only play one fighter- I think next-gen if I get a console at all, it will effectively be for one game. So a ripoff junk fee will really annoy me.
 
E

Endo Punk

Member
funkystudent said:
If Sony can create a premium online service that has value to it more then "we put youtube/netflix/the browser behind a paywall" then I am for it.

Features like Gakiai, cloud storage and Live gameplay streaming and video storage are good premium features that I cant see existing if they are not paid for.

I just want them to keep basic online gaming and access to apps free.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly.
 
D

Drayken

Neo Member
alstein said:
It's an uproar because it's something that is free on PC. It's a junk fee and everyone knows it. It also adds up over 5 years. I'd rather pay 500 with no online free than 400 with an online fee (unless the online fee was like 10/yr)

Lets put it this way: 350+ 5*60 online fee= 650. That's worse than 500, even if you factor in 5 years of inflation. I just wish more people did the math.



There's always food stamps. ^_^
Click to expand...

So it's confirmed: you can buy a PS4 with food stamps and then eat it to survive :D
 
C

CLEEK

Member
alstein said:
It's an uproar because it's something that is free on PC. It's a junk fee and everyone knows it. It also adds up over 5 years. I'd rather pay 500 with no online free than 400 with an online fee (unless the online fee was like 10/yr)

Lets put it this way: 350+ 5*60 online fee= 650. That's worse than 500, even if you factor in 5 years of inflation. I just wish more people did the math.

Given how my PS3 has exclusively become a FG machine, and these days I only play one fighter- I think next-gen if I get a console at all, it will effectively be for one game. So a ripoff junk fee will really annoy me.
Click to expand...

No online free, or fee? Your post doesn't make any sense.

And WTF is math behind 5x60? Five payments of $60 in a year?
 
D

Daante

Member
Sony is definitely on the right track if they have designed the PS4 to be a more "OPEN" console, that integrates well with other tech devices that most people already have, aka smartphone/iphone and tablets.

Exciting times tonight!
 
S

stalker

Member
vdawg5 said:
Late to the thread, but is it conceivable that if you pay for PS Plus in its current form, then that would allow you to also play online once (if?) Sony starts charging for its online services?
Click to expand...

Well, I would say than more than just conceivable that would be the normal course of action:
present PS+ (world) for PS4 as an extension to what there exists now for PS3 but including on-line gaming, thus making it almost mandatory. The game rentals would be the distinctive flavour Sony would offer, which I guess they can do quite easily using mostly their first-party games once they are old.
 
T

tzare

Member
FordGTGuy said:
$.16 a day, where are you guys getting a few dollars a day from?

If Xbox Live was $2 a day it would cost $730 a year....

If you can get 3 people you can trust on a family plan you could be paying $25 a year instead of $60.

That would be $.06 a day instead.
Click to expand...

sorry i misread your comment, that happens when i am supposed to be working and i am reading gaf :p
 
A

alstein

Member
SPE said:
No online free, or fee? Your post doesn't make any sense.

And WTF is math behind 5x60? Five payments of $60 in a year?
Click to expand...

No online pay to play. That's my "Red line".

Yep, 5*60 over a 5 yr period. Even if you find discounts for 40 (which will disappear if both charge the same price), that's still 200. Over 5 years I could find $200 worth of games on PC that would provide me more hours than what I'd get out of the console.

I have no problem with Sony offering PS+ or charging for Gaikai. PS+ is a good deal if you're into gaming beyond one genre, and Gaikai could be useful. I just really don't like core functionality hidden behind a paywell, and online play is core functionality (it's free on Wii U, PC, and PS3)


I really think if both console try to hides behind a paywall, we get a crash. I will say this: if one console had a paywall, and the other console had free online but no second-hand sales, I'd choose the second option.
 
D

Des0lar

will learn eventually
5 years of online for 60 a year makes a lot of sense to me. 5 years is also a conservative number, probably more like 6-7.

I don't think Sony will charge for online play. Reason: it's a bullshit practice.
 
O

omonimo

Banned
I hope 429$/529 not will be the only model available because will be repeat ps vita problems again. It's really too much for those times, sony don't be stupid.
 
A

alstein

Member
Des0lar said:
5 years of online for 60 a year makes a lot of sense to me. 5 years is also a conservative number, probably more like 6-7.

I don't think Sony will charge for online play. Reason: it's a bullshit practice.
Click to expand...

You're not a PC gamer are you?

Also if it's 6 or 7, it becomes 360-420.

I do think online junk fees do end up alienating the genre fans most, we'll probably see a fighting game crash at a minimum next-gen if both consoles to go the paid online model- or at best a hard move to PC.
 
Duallusion

Duallusion

Member
Pezking said:
Sometimes I'm just glad that I don't even like online gaming.

I'm immune to these rumors!
Click to expand...

tumblr_mglcotbR181qzwh1uo1_500.gif
 
K

Kazuma Kiryu

Member
i've been thinking about it, if they do something like integrate online MP into ps+ (which i subscribe to, but because of the games they give you and the discounts), i would be okay with that i guess, as long as they keep giving me free games :)
 
A

alstein

Member
Kazuma Kiryu said:
i've been thinking about it, if they do something like integrate online MP into ps+ (which i subscribe to, but because of the games they give you and the discounts), i would be okay with that i guess, as long as they keep giving me free games :)
Click to expand...

That would do jack for me, and I guarantee if they throw the online play in, the rentals would stop or become less useful really quickly, as they wouldn't be needed. The PS3 was exclusively a FG machine for me, and the PS4 would be the same. I have Steam for everything else. If Fighting Games moved to PC (particuarly VF)- I'd be done with consoles and happy about it.

There's a reason Microsoft never had a program like PS+, they didn't need it, they had a massively captive audience already.
 
G

Graphics Horse

Member
funkystudent said:
If Sony can create a premium online service that has value to it more then "we put youtube/netflix/the browser behind a paywall" then I am for it.

Features like Gakiai, cloud storage and Live gameplay streaming and video storage are good premium features that I cant see existing if they are not paid for.

I just want them to keep basic online gaming and access to apps free.
Click to expand...

Yep. Anything else would be a bad move. I pay for PS plus but not with the idea that online games would stop working if I stopped. Coincidentally I don't think I've played any of my IGC games online.
 
A

alstein

Member
Beer Monkey said:
Tell me in detail exactly what Sony is going to do with Gakai? No guesses. If you know it's worth money you must know how they are going to use it and what the user is going to get.
Click to expand...

It's being assumed on here it would be used for backwards compatibility. I'm going on that assumption.
 
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