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[Bombillazo]

That doesn't take away that during that time they where second party developers. Insomniac use to be second party developer, but is not anymore.

It's like saying Rare was never a second party developer for Nintendo. Yet, they did it for years and that doesn't mean it did not happen.

Nintendo had shares in Rare that established a partnership which is my basis for a 2nd party, they sold those shares to Microsoft after the founders of Rare sold theirs to Microsoft. So now Rare is a 2nd party for MS.

Affinity from a 3rd party to a specific console doesnt make it a 2nd party, unless a exclusivity partnership is established.

 

[themadcowtipper]

Why can't they be an MS second party and still license out their engine?

Does the fact that Gears of War is exclusive to the 360 stop other devs using Unreal?

Epic is not a Ms 2nd party they are a 3rd party who made an exclusive. If they were a 2nd party to MS, MS would get a % of the royalties of the license. You really think Nintdndo and Sony would pay money to MS.

 

[TheOddOne]

No Silicon Knights did an exclusive for MS they were a 2nd party because Nintendo own part of them

The link you posted proves my point though:

The term "second-party" developer is a common misnomer used (erroneously) in place of subsidiary. It is colloquially used in reference to a type of first or third-party developer that specializes in development for a particular platform.
Some of these studios may have exclusive publishing agreements or other business relationships with a particular manufacturer while maintaining independence.

Epic, Insomniac, Crytek are independent, but by exclusive publishing agreement they can be labeled as second party. Which in case of all those three companies that is the case.

I don't quite see the offense in calling them second party, those companies can licence out their engines to whoever they want.

 

[themadcowtipper]

The link you posted proves my point though:

Epic, Insomniac, Crytek are independent, but by exclusive publishing agreement they can be labeled as second party. Which in case of all those three companies that is the case.

I don't quite see the offense in calling them second party, those companies can licence out their engines to whoever they want.

Did you miss the part where it states that the 2nd party specialises in the development of a particular platforms. All those companies you listed development for multiple platforms with an exclusive here and there.Isomniac is diffrent because up until recently they only made games for Sony.

The term "second-party" developer is a common misnomer used (erroneously) in place of subsidiary. It is colloquially used in reference to a type of first or third-party developer that specializes in development for a particular platform.

 

[gaming_noob]

Very curious to see Crytek's MS exclusive.

 

[Satchel]

Epic is not a Ms 2nd party they are a 3rd party who made an exclusive. If they were a 2nd party to MS, MS would get a % of the royalties of the license. You really think Nintdndo and Sony would pay money to MS.

In general? Or in the gaming world?

Because I'm pretty sure Sony and Microsoft have dealings a lot.

Also, didn't a couple of MGS games come out on DS? Banjo and Blue Dragon?

 

[iamshadowlark]

I perhaps should have solidified my claim; what I meant was that while the system may not be physically present at GDC, it will be discussed amongst developers, press etc., and people that have seen the system and have knowledge about it's capabilities and current configuration will be there. I doubt someone starts to shout details about clock frequencies and who is manufacturing the processor, but here and there I think we can expect a few hints. And I would be surprised if the system is not mentioned (perhaps not by name, but as a concept) at Epic Games' preview of Unreal Engine 4.

Thats all possible. We'll just have to wait and see.

I wonder if Durango is the thing the internet will go bananas for (an Eurogamer journalist said last week, that he saw something very impressive, the internet will go bananas for).

I doubt any press will see anything Durango for a while. And like I said earlier software can't be in a presentable form yet.

 

[specialguy]

IGN's next gen reporting continues to be abjectly horrible: http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/121/1219595p1.html

They write up the Durango story but dont credit Kotaku who broke it, or GAF who was surely the reason they associated the name with the next Xbox.

At least they weren't wrong, the only time IGN hasn't been wrong on next gen reporting is when they're just stealing from more reliable sources.

Anyways next gen news is coming along in a steady stream now, it's great to see. 2013-14 seems a lock, with 2013 seemingly becoming more likely.

 

[Chittagong]

If I had the energy, I would go through some dev twitters and see who else tweets about a London trip

 

[dragonelite]

Thats all possible. We'll just have to wait and see.

I doubt any press will see anything Durango for a while. And like I said earlier software can't be in a presentable form yet.

Why can't early software not presentable yet we knew if i remember correct that even Cry Engine 2 had a lot of researched tech that could be used for next gen.

I think developers would find the transition from this gen to the next go really well as far as i know we dont have a massive paradigm shift like going Multicore or high res art work.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Why can't early software not presentable yet we knew if i remember correct that even Cry Engine 2 had a lot of researched tech that could be used for next gen.

I think developers would find the transition from this gen to the next go really well as far as i know we dont have a massive paradigm shift like going Multicore or high res art work.

Oh there will be next gen tech there like there always is, just not from next gen consoles.

 

[Syphon Filter]

I think it will be at e3 with the code name and they will show some tech demos similar to how they handled natal.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

its a second party if they are affiliated for working exclusively with that console maker or they are owned partly by the console maker.

I wouldnt consider EPIC, Crytek, not even Insomniacs to be 2nd parties

On the other hand, RARE, Retro Studios would be considered second party

Retro is completely owned by Nintendo now. They're a first party studio.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Those things were obviously referencing price cut and halo in the quoted material. MS has a publicly stated strategy of forward compatability, and I fully expect that enhanced Halo 4 will be a launch title. MS also loves segmenting its customers. With a price cut, MS will no longer have a $399 SKU. I expect 720 to launch with 399 and 499 SKUs, while maintaining 149/199/249/299 360 SKUs. Halo 4 will ship in sept for 360 and likely as a launch title in Nov or next march. If supply/yield is good, then they should launch in Nov. Given the publicly available information that is the optimal launch window. Non-public information may alter that, but given what we know that is the time.

I could for sure see a special edition Halo 4 whenever this launches, but suggesting that Halo 4 and a theoretical price cut in any way points to Xbox next coming this year is garbage. Garbage that you are already backing away from after two posts with your "or next march" statement, which fits in line with my original "nonsensical" statement. I could see it before next summer, but I don't think it will be out by this Christmas at all.

And when has MS done forward compatibility or segmented the user base when it comes to Xbox?

EDIT: Just to be clear, forward and backward compatibility are not the same thing. The rumor of being forward compatible means that the games will have features added if played on the new hardware, not just up scaling and adding AA, which is just backwards compatibility.

 

[Nirolak]

Deleting tweets and such is always a great way to draw further attention to it, once it's already gotten attention. Ignoring it would have been wiser.

Nice catch.

Deleting your entire Twitter account is even more suspicious!

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

What part of forward compatibility do you not get? All of those games are going look and run better on 720. Having that software line-up for at least a year ahead of PS4 will be a huge strategic advantag, especially since Sony probably won't have the financial capability to create a machine that meaningfully outperforms a 2012 launch 720 in 2013.

None of these games (RE6, Halo 4, Black Ops 2, Borderlands 2, Assassin's Creed 3, GTA 5, etc) are going to run better online, and no one is going to buy new expensive hardware to play games that play just fine on their current box. It's like people have learned nothing from the 3DS launch. You don't sell pricy hardware with BC, you need compelling new experiences. Why would someone buy a new console when they can buy a 360 for less than $149 this fall? Or a PS3 for that matter? Why would a 360 owner spend money to upgrade when that money could be spent on more of the games that will play exactly the same? The answer has to be better than "lol here's some 360 games with some extra AA."

In reference to the Xbox platform, your market segmentation argument makes no sense. The 360 had no competition from the Xbox when it launched.

 

[Monumental]

You guys are arguing over the definition of Second Party for the longest while, and there seems to be 3 different variations of use.

1) Refers to a company that is partially owned by one of the hardware manufacturers.

• In this instance, RARE would be considered a Nintendo second party because Nintendo owned 49% of RARE.

• Silicon Knight would be second party to Nintendo because Nintendo owns a minority stake in them. Yet, Silicon Knights had an exclusive publishing agreement with Microsoft for Too Human.

• SquareEnix would be second party to Sony, yet they've become totally multiplatform this generation, in fact they even have exclusive for Microsoft and Nintendo.

• EPIC, Crytek, and Insomniac would all be considered third party.

2) Refers to an independent company that develops exclusively for one of the hardware manufacturer in a publishing agreement specifically with that hardware manufacturer.

• In this instance, Insomniac would be a second party developer for Sony.

• Bungie was a second party developer for Microsoft for Halo ODST and Halo Reach.

3) Refers to an independent company that develops some exclusives for one of the hardware manufacturer, but simultaneously develops other titles on multiple platforms.

• In this instance, EPIC would be a Microsoft second party developer for Gears.

• Team Ninja was a Microsoft second party developer for Ninja Gaiden.

• Bioware was a Microsoft second party developer for Mass Effect.

As you can see, the debate is stupid, because it shows that in any and ALL meaning of second party, the developers never remain exclusive. Even while owning a developer and it technically being second part, the developer may release multiplatform games.
No dev remain exclusive forever so the second definition inevitably turns into the third one, in which case those game might be published exclusively by one of the hardware manufacturers (Ninja Gaiden 2, Mass Effect 2), but nothing guarantees the exclusivity of those games.

So at the end of the day, all you're arguing about the term "second party" is stupid and inconsequential anyway,

 

[McHuj]

Deleting your entire Twitter account is even more suspicious!

Shit. I hope he didn't get deleted. refs unperson.

 

[Sheikh]

Deleting your entire Twitter account is even more suspicious!

LOL..thats like a comment of a mod

on topic . i expect them to come up with a CRYTEK exclusive or an INSOMNIAC exclusive just to have people talking ...OMGGG sony lost insomniac ...nooooooo

 

[subversus]

Radical Entertainment (Prototype) are retooling their engine for DX11.

well, at least we know that the new console will be heavily focused on DX11 that means 79xx series ballpark. or at least 69xx.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

No dev remain exclusive forever so the second definition inevitably turns into the third one, in which case those game might be published exclusively by one of the hardware manufacturers (Ninja Gaiden 2, Mass Effect 2), but nothing guarantees the exclusivity of those games.

I fully agree with you, but Mass Effect 2 was not published by a platform holder.

 

[Troll]

iOS 4.4 had the code name Durango, too. Is it really that cool sounding? I think its kind of lame, maybe that's just me.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

iOS 4.4 had the code name Durango, too. Is it really that cool sounding? I think its kind of lame, maybe that's just me.

Microsoft is known to use a lot of geographic code names.

 

[eso76]

i just watched 'Rango' yesterday, and 'Durango' is where the chameleon gets his name from.

So this means next gen xbox will be capable of Rango in real time. Confirmed.

 

[TheOddOne]

Did you miss the part where it states that the 2nd party specialises in the development of a particular platforms. All those companies you listed development for multiple platforms with an exclusive here and there.Isomniac is diffrent because up until recently they only made games for Sony.

It says particular platform. Not Platforms.

 

[specialguy]

Durango kinda sucks as a code name. Might as well officially say that.

Just doesn't sound badass enough. Also keeps bringing to mind the Dodge Durango, of course.

 

[Globox_82]

Epic is not a Ms 2nd party they are a 3rd party who made an exclusive. If they were a 2nd party to MS, MS would get a % of the royalties of the license. You really think Nintdndo and Sony would pay money to MS.

I guarantee you Epic will continue to make Gears games for xbox consoles, and I see them making another IP for nextbox (Samaritan most likely)

 

[Globox_82]

Durango kinda sucks as a code name. Might as well officially say that.

Just doesn't sound badass enough. Also keeps bringing to mind the Dodge Durango, of course.

to me it sounds like a porn star name. Deep voice saying "Hi, my name is Durango...and here is why (actress looks down and goes OMG )" lol

 

[Cookychan]

Durango and Cafe are equally meh codenames for consoles.

Haha, they sound like hipster kids names. "This is Durango, Cafe and ByeolKkotDabal. It's an obscure Korean name meaning "Star Bouquet"."

 

[specialguy]

I guarantee you Epic will continue to make Gears games for xbox consoles, and I see them making another IP for nextbox (Samaritan most likely)

There's actually a rumor of a 300 million dollar mega deal where Epic is working on "multiple" core IP's for MS.

Course grain of salt and all. Not sure what else the company is doing as far as huge projects right now though.

 

[Globox_82]

There's actually a rumor of a 300 million dollar mega deal where Epic is working on "multiple" core IP's for MS.

Course grain of salt and all. Not sure what else the company is doing as far as huge projects right now though.

won't be surprised if true. Gears is a system seller. Samaritan is a tech demo but it looks like a game many would love to play. Blade runner look a like universe, guy with powers - x man.

 

[TheOddOne]

There's actually a rumor of a 300 million dollar mega deal where Epic is working on "multiple" core IP's for MS.

Course grain of salt and all. Not sure what else the company is doing as far as huge projects right now though.

That isn't true, that 300 million is being used to fund "core" games from different developers (including Epic).

The Core publishing group is another division within Microsoft that has been staffing up next to 343 Industries and Microsoft Studios Vancouver.

No so much a rumour, it is fact.

 

[Maxrunner]

So Crytek has a 720 and WiiU games, being busy it seems...

 

[Globox_82]

So Crytek has a 720 and WiiU games, being busy it seems...

not sure why this is relevant. It's not like Crytek is a good developer. Good engine but their games suck

 

[Globox_82]

That isn't true, that 300 million is being used to fund "core" games from different developers (including Epic).

The Core publishing group is another division within Microsoft that has been staffing up next to 343 Industries and Microsoft Studios Vancouver.

No so much a rumour, it is fact.

Thanks. Wasn't aware of this. Hmm it seems like MS wants to have more exclusive in next gen. Great.

 

[Maxrunner]

Timesplitters says otherwise.

 

[specialguy]

not sure why this is relevant. It's not like Crytek is a good developer. Good engine but their games suck

Crysis 2 was probably my GOTY 2011. It has warts, lots of them, but as an overall experience it's a tour de force imo, mostly due to the stupendous visuals.

Anyway, it seems like a combo of Crytek and Epic are the grandaddys, the big boys, the representatives, of western technology leadership, basically. It's evolved into that.

If you're making some cutting edge graphics tech of any sort, you'd probably have those guys look at it first outside your own company.

 

[Maxrunner]

Crysis 2 was probably my GOTY 2011. It has warts, lots of them, but as an overall experience it's a tour de force imo, mostly due to the stupendous visuals.

yeah the crysis games are as generic as they come, but yeah the tech is great...

 

[shinobi602]

It's not like Crytek is a good developer. Good engine but their games suck

 

[DarkChild]

Yap... I said "what the fuck have I just read". Two AAA titles and one AA because its plagued with bugs is not bad in my book.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

not sure why this is relevant. It's not like Crytek is a good developer. Good engine but their games suck

In what world does Crysis "suck"?

 

[StevieP]

Radical Entertainment (Prototype) are retooling their engine for DX11.

well, at least we know that the new console will be heavily focused on DX11 that means 79xx series ballpark. or at least 69xx.

Or a 66xx, or a 67xx (and so on for the 76, 77xx). Regardless, it will be a customized chip - it will have DX11 (as chips have had for a couple generations now).

not sure why this is relevant. It's not like Crytek is a good developer. Good engine but their games suck

Well, Crysis 1 was decent.

Very curious to see Crytek's MS exclusive.

Ryse?

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

In what world does Crysis "suck"?

Or Far Cry. It's just the usual hyperbole.

 

[Alxjn]

not sure why this is relevant. It's not like Crytek is a good developer. Good engine but their games suck

What? Crysis 1 is one of the best shooters I've ever played. It's pretty much the perfect combination of sandbox and linear progression.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

not sure why this is relevant. It's not like Crytek is a good developer. Good engine but their games suck

I just picked up Crysis XBL and it was fantastic, and I'm not talking only from a visual perspective. Ignoring the end of the game where things weren't nearly as good it stood out as one of the more fun sandbox shooters I have played. Even though the alien part of the game wasn't nearly as strong I found the game pretty solid, and certainly more exploratory than the modern CoD games.

Now, I haven't played Crysis 2, but I can also vouch for FarCry which was also a blast.

 

[StevieP]

Word on the rumour mill is that this guy was let go from Crytek...

 

[Kibbles]

Word on the rumour mill is that this guy was let go from Crytek...

Making it even more obvious.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Word on the rumour mill is that this guy was let go from Crytek...

Maybe he can land a job in Microsoft France.

 

[Infinite Justice]

Word on the rumour mill is that this guy was let go from Crytek...

on one hand that fucking sucks

on the other this whole thing could be seen as legit.



*assuming this let go rumor is true*

 

[Neuromancer]

Word on the rumour mill is that this guy was let go from Crytek...

You shitting me? That sucks. =\