If true , it sets a bad precedent going forward for console gaming. Consoles aren't PC's, they're supposed to be good performers for an optimal price point.. 8 year generations are too long, 2 years is waaaaaay too short, especially when the first 2 years of this generation has been pretty disappointing.. I built myself a gaming PC a year ago, and the PS4 gets less and less use as time goes on.. If they do this, they're sealing their fate with people like me. I won't be back.. I already think moving forward I'll be strictly a PC gamer, but if they do release an upgraded PS4, I'll be ditching my PS4 NOW..
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Kotaku: Sony is working on a PS4.5; briefing devs on plans for a more powerful PS4
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Omnistalgic
Member
I don't think as many people would be as bothered by this as you think. Ever heard of Apple tax? People know they are paying more money for Apples phone or tablet, but they like the brand, the design, the software, etc...
And why are consoles becoming more like PC's such a negative thing, they are still dedicate gaming hardware and simpler OS tailored towards entertainment applications. A PC is still a multi-purpose computation device.
Makes no sense what you said. At that rate why buy anything there's always better out there. Why buy a house,why buy a tv, why buy one bread over another if there's better more expensive healthier bread, why why should I even live there's people who are better than me. We should all be the same at the same level. That'll improve things.
Why not just release one system and never release another ever again. Why do it if people going to get upset? By your logic I don't want a another PlayStation ever again.
It's ok to not want the upcoming system if you think it's expensive your current games will still work, games will still be released for your system. Pc won't be better for you if that's your reason. There will always better graphics cards CPUs etc.
if things are to expensive for you that's one thing to say, to say there's better than what I have doesn't make sense because that's all around you in life.
So people with phones and tablets that they upgrade in 2-3 years don't get to enjoy them? And why would a mid-gen bump gimp anything? If anything, it'll be the PS4.5 that gets gimped as games will still target the lower end machine so you'll have a similar situation to PS3 games being ported to PS4 and not taking advantage of the increased performance. Real improvements in things like world density etc won't properly be seen until each 'full' gen transition just like now, when the older machine stops being supported.
Omnistalgic
Member
lol...yeah that about sums it up. Should be at the top of every page hahaha...
Ah, you're right, I forgot about this. Even if it didn't, I'd doubt Sony would've gone for higher resolution, I think. PS4 would have a bit of trouble pushing, say 1440p/60fps without making a good deal of graphical sacrifices.
The Mad Draklor
Member
The smartphone and console markets are too different for comparison. When it comes to smartphones, as long as it can send texts, make calls, and web browse for me, I'm perfectly happy. I won't notice the difference in specs that much, if at all.
However, getting a home console is a long term investment and the difference will be significant if Sony is proposing a significantly more powerful 'PS4.5'. Of course I'll be annoyed, especially since I just got my PS4 a few months ago.
Finally posting in this thread.
I am fine with the idea of a PS 4.5.
I am guessing if thi thing did come out, it would maybe be late next year.
I am ok with a 4 year upgrade cycle as I am a tech junkie.
I know some want more like 6 year or maybe even 8 year. Thats just too long IMO.
PS1 to PS2 - 5 years
PS2 to PS3 - 6 years
PS3 to PS4 - 7 years
5 is max to me and 4 years is even better.
If one wants yearly upgrades, get a PC.
I am fine with the idea of a PS 4.5.
I am guessing if thi thing did come out, it would maybe be late next year.
I am ok with a 4 year upgrade cycle as I am a tech junkie.
I know some want more like 6 year or maybe even 8 year. Thats just too long IMO.
PS1 to PS2 - 5 years
PS2 to PS3 - 6 years
PS3 to PS4 - 7 years
5 is max to me and 4 years is even better.
If one wants yearly upgrades, get a PC.
Really so when phones are released there are no spec upgrades done to them. They are literally the same exact thing? No higher res no anything, just trying to clarify. And there is difference, this is 3 years apart phones are one year apart. Those complaining about just buying a ps4, no one told you to wait this long. That's of your own choice, and no one here will be upset at you because of that. That's the point people in this thread are trying to get across, we just want choices.
Papacheeks
Banned
Consoles are about Simplicity, it's why people by them in droves and not custom built PC's. I mean there are people buying PC's, but the amount at which people buy consoles on yearly basis.
Consoles are just: open the box, hook it to your tv, hook it to internet, turn it on and play.
PC's are not like that, even with steam box's. There's sometimes configurations that are needed, if let's say your firewall, or antivirus is blocking third party server manager. Or is blocking the game period over the internet. Then there's tweaking depending on your monitor, and system to get the game running like you want it.
Consoles are for Simplicity and ease of use. Having more options as in specs causes confusion. PS3 had that going on when they started phasing out the 60gb and replaced it with the 40, then had and 80gb, then a slim 120 all in a span of couple years.
That confuses your customer population. They want to know that what their getting is the only version they need.
After some thought over the weeked. I have come to the conclusion that I think SOny is doing what they did for E3 2013. They are going to wait. Since MS publicly talked about future revisions, I think they will wait and see how that pans out.
I think that they have 2 sku's they are playing around with which would explain some of the reactions from developers who have not clue. Sony has not talked about this at length with their partners yet.
So come this E3 depending on what XBox does, I can see 3 things happening:
- Xbox does this it's met with mixed feeling some pro some not and people voice their opinions about it on the internet. And Sony waits on the more powerful refresh idea but goes to option 2.
- So Sony announced a refresh that is 4k ready, which is what it says. No change in GPU/CPU to where it would impact original config, just something like a upgraded 4k bluray drive, and somekind of scaler that upscales current resolution output to 4k for people's tv's/monitors that support it. Or something close to 4k resolution.
- They have the actual upgraded spec sku with more powerful/efficient CPU/GPU Ultra bluray, and upgraded sata/usb3.0 storage, this is if reception is positive from Microsoft's.
I want to believe since they have been so strong this gen, and making good decisions, that 4k upscaler with ultra bluray upgrade for 399-449 would be the better choice that's not going to cause issues with developers or piss off early adopters.
Or cause the issues that we have been talking about. SO it's basically the version that output's 4k resolution by upscale not rendering the game in 4k native.
You could just as easily claim that nobody is going to buy a 4K television to watch demo reels, and yet plenty have done just that. The assumption is always that content will follow.
Unless the rumors have changed, I thought it was suspected to release end of this year. Too soon IMO.
I also love the phone and tablet comparisons. Consoles are neither and have a much more singular purpose. Phones and tablets are utility devices, games are just a small part of what these devices provide.
Personally, coming from a primarily console gamer since the atari, Im in the "Ill just build a PC camp" if consoles are to become iterative. Like phones and tablets, PCs are utility devices and if Im going to need to upgrade on a regular bases to stay comfortably middle/upper end then Im going to spend my money on the devices that are going to get the most use. Consoles were a nice, single expense, every 5-6 years and I knew, this device was going to be the best that it can be for that time. I really hope this rumor is nothing more than a 4K BR player and game scaler.
The content that would follow in this case (4K GTA, 4K Uncharted etc) is not happening
This issue with this logic is that the PS4 graphics aren't getting any better or worse comparatively to the top end with the introduction of the PS4+. Top end PCs will still be the highest level available.
Why would you have a problem with other people paying more to have a better experience? Especially since it only stands to lengthen the time that the PS4 is supported?
1 thing people fail to realize is that Gamecube was the last pure game console & what we have now is Multimedia Computers for the living room TV & this has been Sony & MS plans from the start.
80 + 40 million people turn on their TV to Sony's OS & storefront & that number is just gonna grow & with a move like having upgraded PS4's they can support that big number of people with the same software & service without having to make different software & services for multiple platforms.
80 + 40 million people turn on their TV to Sony's OS & storefront & that number is just gonna grow & with a move like having upgraded PS4's they can support that big number of people with the same software & service without having to make different software & services for multiple platforms.
Which is why I dont get why some think Nintendo is in a better position going forward with plans like this than Sony.
If Nintendo does similar....but forget about the living room, they could be the odd man out. Real quick. Then again....I think if Nintendo hits a home run with mobile gaming, thats that end game. So they could be alright too.
Hell, Sony already offers an alternative to cable TV service....with decent pricing.
I have a 4k tv but im not so sure i would want just an upgraded ps4, even if this rumor is true, were peobably talking about 1 year distance minimum, so, cancel that and give us ps5 instead on 2018, easy.
Oh please dont compare smartphones, the consumer is so in love with showing the new phone that they dont care about specs or anything, my ps4? Its for personal use and no ones eyes.
Oh please dont compare smartphones, the consumer is so in love with showing the new phone that they dont care about specs or anything, my ps4? Its for personal use and no ones eyes.
The Mad Draklor
Member
Way to strawman what I was saying and your reply is confusing because you're disagreeing and agreeing with me simultaneously.
I said that the smartphone and console markets are too different for comparison and you agreed to that. Yet, you replied as if I said they are the same.
As for the rest of your reply, it's non sequitur and also fails to acknowledge the fact that I was addressing the possibility of a large difference between the vanilla and upgraded PS4. If the difference is minor, more power to you since it's not that big of a deal.
Dictator93
Member
Pretty interesting if this was true, as either sony sees this as being the best way to generate revenue in response to the eventual xboxone.5, or if they really think that their hardware is tapping a bit earlier than last time.
Papacheeks
Banned
Show me a game comparable to Uncharted 4 on PC with that kind of animation, design? Rise of the Tomb Raider is the only one I can think of at this moment. ANd even with everything cranked, animations are not on the same level as Naughty Dog. FIND ME one that's PC exclusive while your at it.
There's nothing wrong with what is coming out and what is already out. People seriously unrealistic expectations. I don't see PC software outside of a few titles that are showing some giant leap. Crysis 3 was the last one that really showed how inferior PS3/360 were to pc. By that time they were 8+7 years old.
Which the quality of animation, facial capture, there's nothing wrong with what we have, and sales of this generation show people are fine with that is being offered. More than last generation, and PS4 is on PS2 levels which is insane. It goes against the opposite of the narrative I see on gaf, mainly coming from people who play on PC and have a console.
The refresh with a new upscaler, ultra-blury makes sense as offering people with 4k tv sets, but nothing changing the game, just the image's output to the display. Going with upgraded specs does nothing but head down a road that over a long period of time will kill console sales, hype, and NEW GENERATIONAL period excitement.
People just wont be so anxious to buy on day 1 anymore knowing a refresh will be 2 years down.
This will blow up in their faces in the long run, if they change chips,memory and things of that nature.
Darkstorne
Member
How is any of that relevant..? Yes, Slims have a history of performing the same as previous consoles. A PS4.5 won't render the PS4 obsolete, it'll likely just play PS4 games at higher resolutions or framerates, without impacting the performance of games played on the regular PS4 (typically 1080p30fps).
So you can either:
a) Buy a 1080p30fps PS4 at launch
b) Wait a few years for a possible $200-250 PS4 Slim for 1080p30fps gameplay
c) Wait a few years for a possible $350-400 PS4.5 for 1080p60fps or 1440p/4k30fps gameplay
Early adoption of future consoles won't be affected by this kind of hardware iteration. We all know hardware revisions are likely when we buy a console in year one or two. We also know that regardless of those hardware revisions the console we buy NOW will still work just fine until the next generation. It's a tradeoff many of us make in order to play new generation games straight away.
So I haven't followed this thread that closely but it seems like this is a rumor verging on a near leak. My question is related to the 4K gaming, I mean how is that even possible without this system costing a lot and needing a huge amount of electrical power to run. I've seen my friends 4K ready PC and that thing is a beast and a lot of games still have trouble running at that resolution with a decent frame rate.
I'd love to see them pull it off but it doesn't seem possibly unless AMD or Sony had some graphics hardware breakthrough I'm unaware of. Feel free to enlighten me GAF.
I'd love to see them pull it off but it doesn't seem possibly unless AMD or Sony had some graphics hardware breakthrough I'm unaware of. Feel free to enlighten me GAF.
Obliterator
Member
Um no? In the very post you quoted I said where they are. IPad and IPhone
Significantly contracting. I still think there is a good sized market for it as we see with the PS4. Its just not the same sized market it once was
Darkstorne
Member
Highly likely the 4k resolution is just an upper limit, and something smaller games (Assassin's Creed Chronicles, Child of Light) and some Indies might take advantage of. Otherwise, the power boost will more likely be used by AAA games for 60fps, 1440p, or better graphics. Also, seems very much aimed at providing more juice for PSVR games.
If you think about Sony as a company that makes a lot of different products, not just a console manufacturer, a PS4+ makes sense
It goes along with the 4K TV they ar pushing and giver a clear reason for people to buy one.
If this is a thing I reckon it will just be called PS4+ - processing power, graphics cards etc won't even be mentioned in any marketing, it'll simply be 'Hey, got s 4k TV? here's a PS4 just for you - you can play Netflix etc in 4k, we'll upscale your games to run in 4K and some future PS4 game swill have native 4K as option.
$100 more than a regular PS4 both on market simultaneously.
It goes along with the 4K TV they ar pushing and giver a clear reason for people to buy one.
If this is a thing I reckon it will just be called PS4+ - processing power, graphics cards etc won't even be mentioned in any marketing, it'll simply be 'Hey, got s 4k TV? here's a PS4 just for you - you can play Netflix etc in 4k, we'll upscale your games to run in 4K and some future PS4 game swill have native 4K as option.
$100 more than a regular PS4 both on market simultaneously.
Papacheeks
Banned
It's like you don't understand how games work? It's like you think Developers hit a button and the game automatically scales to the newer hardware without reconfiguration of assets, effects and optimizations?
ANd it's like you don't understand that if developers target a game (like N3DS did) that will only benefit from newer refreshed PS4, that people won't get pissed. Or if baseline PS4 versions of the game is gimped people won't throw fits.
Imagine if down the line big franchise or projects target PS4 refresh. and base model version is outsourced?
If you own baseline which 40+ million do, that would cause a huge divide and piss off player base.
Just because there are benefits doesn't mean the con's don't exist or that people wont perceive the refresh in the way Sony intends.
It's not about PS4 getting better or worse, it is about the value I expected out of my current hardware. I buy consoles knowing/expecting the best that they can do for the entire gen game wise. One of the big reasons I was very excited for PSVR since the PS4 is a fixed appliance. If PS4+/4K actually boosts performance beyond resolution then I do not feel my money is getting the value I came into the generation with. It also devalues PSVR for me since I will need to upgrade for the best experience.
I also don't care or have a problem with people paying to have a better experience. I certainly hold no ill will against people running quad Titans compared to my 390. More power to them and those that want more.
Well people on PC press a simple button and the game automatically scales to the level the user wants
Having a PS4.5 simply run games at 60FPS doesn't need any change to assets.
Papacheeks
Banned
NAILED IT!
Darkstorne
Member
Literally all it takes is Sony saying "For you game to be certified for release it MUST manage at least 900p and 30fps on the base PS4 model." Just like they've said "For PSVR games to be certified they MUST run at 60fps."
You're right that it would be silly to create a huge hardware divide that reduces profit margins (smaller total audience) and offends their playerbase. So stop assuming this must mean the PS4 will be rendered obsolete or barely function and stutter around 20fps. As for your scaling comments and attack, I never said anything about older games scaling up. Drop the aggression.
Papacheeks
Banned
Well people on PC press a simple button and the game automatically scales to the level the user wants
Having a PS4.5 simply run games at 60FPS doesn't need any change to assets.
Yea PC, not console. And I would assume your talking about Nvidia experience right? Which I don't use because It's shit.
Yea, consoles dont work that way. If that were the case N3DS and regular 3ds would be able to play same games.
You say it like it will be gospel? I already talked about this a while ago, a mandate is not set in stone. And if a high ranked developer like Sucker Punch, naughty dog came to sony saying they need to specifically target refreshed PS4 for their game, Sony would probably do it.
And I said this awhile ago, all it takes is one game and it's a slippery slope.
JordanN
Banned
But for Sony though, why should they care?
That's the part that get me though. It's not the idea of iterative consoles because we know the idea has been done before (i.e new 3DS/Expansion Pak/32x etc) but rather, with PS4 already being both the best selling and most powerful console this gen, why would a company suddenly fret "oh shit, maybe we should bring out a new system now"?
In terms of games/technology, Sony already owns Naughty Dog or Guerrilla. They can't just walk away from PS4 because "we don't got powah!". They will have to continue to push it if they want to survive.
Same goes for a lot of 3rd party publishers/developers too. No one is abandoning it while games continue to sell the most on it.
As had been alluded to earlier in this thread - I think this is possible - games in theory would run 4K with a lot of smart programming and would have a range of performance. ie. I would predict it would be similar how current games don't all run 1080/60fps with PS4.
Obliterator
Member
Well, and I dont mean this in a mean way, but that is the reality of tech. It moves faster than ever and becomes outdated faster than ever.
These consoles were built for Day 1 profitability and have simple architecture. There is no more secret sauce for developers to grab hold of. Devs are already hitting major walls on only year 3.
The time where we wait outlandish amounts of time on older and older hardware are thankfully hopefully coming to an end
What I get from this thread is people do not know how to handle or use money at all.
You know you can sell your old shit to finance they new stuff and you end up paying a small fee.
I, like I've said before, am ok with this idea. I feel it will make consoles great again by keeping their tech/specs relevant not old like they are now. Even if more advance that Nintendo consoles they pale in comparison to PC specs. It feels like the old Arcade vs home console debates of old.
You know you can sell your old shit to finance they new stuff and you end up paying a small fee.
I, like I've said before, am ok with this idea. I feel it will make consoles great again by keeping their tech/specs relevant not old like they are now. Even if more advance that Nintendo consoles they pale in comparison to PC specs. It feels like the old Arcade vs home console debates of old.
Papacheeks
Banned
Where's the aggression?
This what were talking about has been done before by Nintendo and Sega, and it hasn't worked.
And actually hurts them. It may seem great, but I don't see how this won't add more confusion to consumers, and current customers. Not everyone on gaf is as informed as we are. We do not make up the total gaming community if anything we are a tiny spec in a a giant pool.
WOW, like now your telling people how they should be ok with trading in their shit? How you can guarantee them good trade in value?
Arcade vs home console? WTF?
No offense your off your knockers dude.
Indeed. I have every intention of selling old tech, be it phones, tablets etc to fund new tech I buy.
It will be no different when Xbox One+ or PS4.5 is released.
Darkstorne
Member
You say it like it will be gospel?
It's ridiculously bad business sense to target AAA game development at a fraction of an install base. If you want to place bets on Sony doing that though, then go ahead. The safe money is on this being an optional hardware refresh to cater to the growing number of people caring about high framerates and resolutions in their games. They can sell this hardware at profit to encourage current PS4 owners to double dip without affecting the software sales of the generation as a whole. It's smart.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
Sony can and probably will build a development environment where both SKU's can be supported very easily. It's likely both architectures will be very similar, except one will be slightly faster, and lots of the developers are PC-based anyways, so this should be easier than the myriads of configures they already have experience supporting.
Huh so we could possibly see Uncharted 4 in 60 fps? That would be pretty cool actually.
I just wonder how they would do this. Its a lot of horsepower to get 4K running and at a decent 30 fps for a lot of PCs and I realize the whole set system hardware allows devs to do more with less but I just don't see how they make that huge a jump without needing a massive boost in power needs and/or some serious hardware under the hood. I would figure the heat created alone would require a serious redesign of the case and cooling methods but I could be wrong on that.
Sorry I don't follow this line of thinking. Clearly PC gaming is important to you, maybe more so than console gaming. Or perhaps you simply wish to balance both. But nothing about this goes against that. As a PC gamer, you may find yourself spending $200-300 every few years on a new graphics card... which IMO is equivalent to what is starting to happen in the console space.
The PS4 will always be able to play all the games that are released in the future that will benefit from the PS4.5 hardware. It needs to. If there end up being PS4.5 exclusive games that don't run on an original PS4, then THAT will be cause to freak out and I wouldn't blame you or anyone from ditching Sony, because that would be a dark future that we can't allow to happen.
This will not cause 2 year generations. They would still be 8-10 years of the platforms are successful. Same as they are now.
CosmicQueso
Member
Cheeks... you're talking as if you know all the details of what this thing might actually be. You don't.
Papacheeks
Banned
How did this go for the N3DS?
I'm talking from experience. We went through the sega days, we have been through the N3DS which was suppose to be great, but people kept their 3DS. And now sales are lower on average because of it.
It's a slippery slope one that if it was more or less format upgrade like I stated, upscale to 4k for image output and bluray playback, different than having more memory, new APU unit.
I guess I don't see the pro's out weighing the con's, and I see with PSVR already announced, if the rumor is true and refresh is announced this E3, it will add more confusion. And that puts negative light on both companies.
Consoles cycles exist for a reason," book Console Wars" sheds light on how anticipation, hype, and early adoption helps you throughout. WHat it also shows is that even with the greatest of intentions and having "Mandate" shit can go down hill in a slit second.
Talking about simple settings in a graphics menu. Devs just need to adjust them for either console. It's not magic. They have these settings available at their finger tips. The N3DS/3DS example is bad because Nintendo simply makes some games exclusive to sell you a N3DS.
I'd be interested to hear the views of the 35 - 40+ year olds on this possibility. I personally don't have an issue with it. This reminds me of the 2 head to 4 head vhs tape machines. They played the same tapes, however the 4 head ones played and recorded at a better rate. The new machines introduced stereo recording (anyone remember nicam digital stereo?)
As long as the new units play the original games, and the upcoming games aren't split between these systems, I'm cool with it.
As long as the new units play the original games, and the upcoming games aren't split between these systems, I'm cool with it.
Not sure I agree with that but maybe. I get that tech advances, I personally like to stay just ahead of the curve and if that is the direction they are going to take, so be it. Things change and so will I. However value proposition is also important to me and iterative consoles removes the value for me. I will save my 'console/games' money and put it towards PC instead.
You need a hardware engineer to answer that - but generally speaking you can get more bang out of your buck performance wise on consoles than there "PC" equivalents because the architecture is designed to be solely for video gamey stuff (CPU/GPU)
Darkstorne
Member
Never underestimate Nintendo's ability to make bad business decisions, and never use them as a measuring stick for hardware in this industry. They are a law unto themselves.
We know that Sony's first party games are very much hit and miss, and that they rely on profits from the success stories to cover the losses from the failures. There is absolutely no chance they're going to increase that risk by releasing something The Last of Us 2 for the PS4k only. They'll just heavily advertise it as "Play in 60fps on PS4k!" Or "Best on PS4k!" They'll try and make you want the newer console, even though you know you don't need it.
It's also because developers know exactly which GPU/CPU/OS combo they're targeting for consoles (so can focus on the strengths of those components), whereas they need to support a ridiculously broad range of different operating systems, manufacturers, and combinations on the PC.
The power thing keeps getting brought up and I still don't understand how an upgraded console fixes it
You have a PS4 and a PS4K. Like 99% of your base is going to be on the original PS4. The original PS4 will be used as the base by developers, so whatever limitations that creators run into will always be there.
I don't know anything about actual game development but the games for these systems keep coming out looking better and better.
Limitations will always be a thing this way, especially if "forward compatibility" is a something the hardware makers attempt.
You have a PS4 and a PS4K. Like 99% of your base is going to be on the original PS4. The original PS4 will be used as the base by developers, so whatever limitations that creators run into will always be there.
I don't know anything about actual game development but the games for these systems keep coming out looking better and better.
Limitations will always be a thing this way, especially if "forward compatibility" is a something the hardware makers attempt.