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[BobLoblaw]

Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?

He didn't say we can't record him. LOOPHOLE!!!

 

[The Tofunator]

Isn't there a fable about this kind of situation and how someone can easily get fucked over if the cop wanted to? "The Wolf and the Lamb," I think it was called.

 

[Piecake]

But to the extent that this is true, how does it affect the author's suggestions? It seems like the solution in that case is still going to arise from something other than belligerence at the time of the police interaction (such as changing the law or police oversight procedures).

Filing a complaint does not lead to dramatic and systemic change. Standing up for your rights can lead to that change and we clearly need that change. You personally might get fucked over more if you stand up for your rights thanks to power-tripping asshole cops, but you can still get fucked over (seized assets or being black) if you peacefully comply. Moreover, you have about the same chance of getting justice if you stood up for your rights or filed a complaint (nil)

 

[Kai Dracon]

Besides the blatant justification for beating the shit out of you if you make so much as a dehumanizing look, the overall tone comes across as #notallcops

It's not MY problem that there are so many corrupt cops and so much abuse civilians have to be afraid that every encounter will be one of "the bad ones". Who may shoot them dead for no reason. Sure, that's a naughty boo boo, those bad bad cops. But it ain't my problem. Nope. I'm a good cop. (Who reserves the right to crush your spleen if you twitch in a way I don't like. That's how much of a great guy I am.)

 

[Toxi]

I agree with the article. Cops should be treated like large aggressive animals, as they are similarly unpredictable, dangerous, and quickly resort to violence. So avoid them if at all possible, but if an interaction is inevitable, do not provoke them.

Should we put cops in zoos next to the lions and bears?

 

[SneakyStephan]

Police tried to search a guy even though they were "merely curious" rather than the requisite "reasonably suspicious", dude assumed a "martial arts pose" and beat the shit out of both of them. Despite his resistance the arrest was still unlawful and he got off on everything.

badass



OT: fucking gross
Maybe the guy who wrote this should look in the eyes of the woman whose husband got suffocated to death a while ago because he was 'resisting' (by being unconsious and not moving or breathing for several minutes while they continue to hold him down) and spout of all this shit to her.
(http://mrconservative.com/2014/02/3...er-being-violently-arrested-by-five-officers/)

just cooperate yo and collect his corpse after they 're done with him, you can always sue the police.

The idiot mentions the use of deadly force because some guy wants to set fire to his car, which is just a cherry on top of the gross cake

Doesn't get any clearer than this that there's a serious problem at the heart of policing in the US.

I can't even begin to imagine the backlash if a cop were to say something similar here. I know at the very least that he'd probably be out of a job within the day.

Over here the cop would be out of a job, his supervisors would be in deep shit, reform of police training after pressure on politicians in charge, it would be on the news for weeks as a scandal.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Doesn't get any clearer than this that there's a serious problem at the heart of policing in the US.

I can't even begin to imagine the backlash if a cop were to say something similar here. I know at the very least that he'd probably be out of a job within the day.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'm a rebel who gives dehumanizing looks WHILE aggressive walking.

 

[Pickles the Firecat]

You'd resist the cop, have a higher chance of get beaten up and potentially fatally shot, for what exactly? A better story to tell Rachel Maddow? To be a martyr? Maybe I'm just a coward but fuck contributing to civil rights if it means I have to risk my life going one on one against a pissed off cop with a loaded gun.

1. Because I believe very deeply in human rights on more than a paper and pen level. Protecting your rights, and the rights of others, requires actual sacrifice at times.

2. In order to demonstrate that the public will not be forced into compliance by aggressive, illegal actions on the behalf of law enforcement.

3. To set an example for others through non-aggressive resistance of illegal force.

It doesn't make you a coward to participate in the system as it is. tbh I'm angry at the moment and my posts reflect that. But I would ask you to look within yourself and question whether or not the system is worth living in when the idea of trying to make it better has you afraid for you life.

 

[Dude Abides]

Should we put cops in zoos next to the lions and bears?

No. They aren't rare or interesting.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I'm a rebel who gives dehumanizing looks WHILE aggressive walking.

username quote

 

[abadguy]

I'm a rebel who gives dehumanizing looks WHILE aggressive walking.

Hope you have a vest.

 

[Archer]

Fuck you, scumbag. Can't wait to see what's coming to your better-than-thou ass.

 

[Hale-XF11]

This article should make it crystal clear that it's them against American citizens. They want you to know that you have no power. They want you to feel powerless. It's how they operate. They know that anything you do will have no effect whatsoever on how they operate.

 

[Rest]

It's not the way things work. But it is how they should work, which means you should be willing to sacrifice the convenience of your day, week, month, year, and life to protect an innocent man in New York who could be strangled to death by an officer for no reason. Large scale resistance--legal, justified, non-aggressive resistance--from our citizens is what I am advocating. I'm sorry that may be an obstacle in achieving what you want out of life. I wish Mike Brown were able to be inconvenienced in that way today.



Law enforcement officers are not "the good guys". They are people.

You know what, I'm not even sure what you're talking about any more. I'm not going to hassle a cop who is talking to me for any reason, because I'm not going to be that guy who gets strangled to death. And you're not advocating nonaggressive resistance, because any time anybody says don't piss of a cop if they've stopped you to ask you something you're calling them wrong. No interaction with a cop has to go bad. If you don't understand that a cop pulling you over for speeding, or asking for a statement if they believe you witnessed a crime isn't intent on pulling out their gun and shooting you, I have to question your thinking.

If a cop thinks you fit the description of a criminal they're looking for, they're going to stop you and ask you about it, and that's not a violation of anything, that's them doing their job. They may even arrest you, and if you get yourself beaten or killed because you're resisting arrest, that's not all on the cop.

The fact that you think that every single cop in the entire United States of America is some kind of misanthropic psychopath is not reasonable or rational, and since that seems to be the point of view that you're coming from I don't think any real conversation with you about the topic can be had.

You seem to hate cops. I don't know why that is, but I really hope that the next time you have to interact with one you don't come from a place of anger right from the jump. You will probably be hurt if that happens.

 

[ISOM]

He should be fired for writing this type of article. In fact the entire police force in the US needs a reform to it's culture. Too much officers who are drunk on their own power.

 

[krae_man]

*Goes into lengthy detail about ways he has successfully diffused situations without violence*

"If you don't want to get shot..." Wait what?

 

[Archer]

He should be fired for writing this type of article. In fact the entire police force in the US needs a reform to it's culture. Too much officers who are drunk on their own power.

I agree with you. Wholeheartedly. However, words on a forum won't stop this ignorant train of thought. Sometimes one has to stoop to their level of idiocy to prove and win a point.

 

[Tugatrix]

It kind of remind me this guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fTaK2RDxNA

Maybe they are friends

 

[Saint Gregory]

It would have been really helpful if he had linked a video to an example of an aggressive walk so I could know if I'm doing it wrong or not :/

This is really frightening stuff. Not what he's saying, I already knew that cops felt this way, but that he's saying it so openly. The other frightening part is that a lot of people will read this, think it's perfectly OK and then criticize the president for being arrogant and abusing his power.

 

[Siegcram]

This is really frightening stuff. Not what he's saying, I already knew that cops felt this way, but that he's saying it so openly. The other frightening part is that a lot of people will read this, think it's perfectly OK and then criticize the president for being arrogant and abusing his power.

As evidenced by this very thread.

 

[Malyse]

Protect and Serve, am I right?

INCORRECT.

 

[Mortemis]

"LAPD Officer's Op-Ed: "Don't be black and we won't hurt you"

The whole challenging shit is stupid. "Challenge" could mean anything to these guys. Got a choke-hold on me and I'm trying to catch a breath? Resisting arrest. Because they are rarely questioned they could justify anything and get away with anything.

 

[Metaphoreus]

Filing a complaint does not lead to dramatic and systemic change. Standing up for your rights can lead to that change and we clearly need that change. You personally might get fucked over more if you stand up for your rights thanks to power-tripping asshole cops, but you can still get fucked over (seized assets or being black) if you peacefully comply. Moreover, you have about the same chance of getting justice if you stood up for your rights or filed a complaint (nil)

We're straying somewhat from discussing the article, which doesn't address how to achieve systemic change in policing. But in response to the above, I'm not sure random people provoking the police to use force is the optimal means of effecting the systemic change you (and I) desire. People generally won't be outraged by justified force, and provocation may provide justification (whether legal justification or merely justification in the minds of voters) for the use of force, even though the stop itself may have been initially unjustified. Far more likely to motivate systemic change are examples of unjustified force, and force is more likely to be unjustified if those illegally stopped or searched are not belligerent.

 

[AntoneM]

You know what, I'm not even sure what you're talking about any more. I'm not going to hassle a cop who is talking to me for any reason, because I'm not going to be that guy who gets strangled to death. And you're not advocating nonaggressive resistance, because any time anybody says don't piss of a cop if they've stopped you to ask you something you're calling them wrong. No interaction with a cop has to go bad. If you don't understand that a cop pulling you over for speeding, or asking for a statement if they believe you witnessed a crime isn't intent on pulling out their gun and shooting you, I have to question your thinking.

If a cop thinks you fit the description of a criminal they're looking for, they're going to stop you and ask you about it, and that's not a violation of anything, that's them doing their job. They may even arrest you, and if you get yourself beaten or killed because you're resisting arrest, that's not all on the cop.

The fact that you think that every single cop in the entire United States of America is some kind of misanthropic psychopath is not reasonable or rational, and since that seems to be the point of view that you're coming from I don't think any real conversation with you about the topic can be had.

You seem to hate cops. I don't know why that is, but I really hope that the next time you have to interact with one you don't come from a place of anger right from the jump. You will probably be hurt if that happens.

Since people in police uniforms have been shown to be violent thugs across the country, I sure as hell will treat any interaction with them as I would some one throwing up gang signs. That is, I'm going to assume they are trying to fuck me over.

 

[Odothehero]

1. Because I believe very deeply in human rights on more than a paper and pen level. Protecting your rights, and the rights of others, requires actual sacrifice at times.

2. In order to demonstrate that the public will not be forced into compliance by aggressive, illegal actions on the behalf of law enforcement.

3. To set an example for others through non-aggressive resistance of illegal force.

It doesn't make you a coward to participate in the system as it is. tbh I'm angry at the moment and my posts reflect that. But I would ask you to look within yourself and question whether or not the system is worth living in when the idea of trying to make it better has you afraid for you life.

Cheers for the post, I think I get where you're coming from now. I think we agree on the problem, but have different values for the costs:benefits of resisting illegal force by cops.

 

[Pickles the Firecat]

You know what, I'm not even sure what you're talking about any more. I'm not going to hassle a cop who is talking to me for any reason, because I'm not going to be that guy who gets strangled to death. And you're not advocating nonaggressive resistance, because any time anybody says don't piss of a cop if they've stopped you to ask you something you're calling them wrong.

The heart of the Op-Ed is this: if an officer is treating you in an illegal and/or aggressive manner, allow it to happen and report the incident later.

My point is that you should not acquiesce to an officer treating you in an illegal and/or aggressive manner. You should not provoke them, you should not attack them, but you should not comply with their demands. If the officer threatens to arrest or detain you, let them. If the officer threatens to physically harm you, let them.

Change will only happen when officers can no longer coerce citizens into accepting illegal policing methods with the threat of violence and arrest. Period.

I have not, and I never would, say that routine interactions with police officers should be combative. I simply do not agree that police officers are "good guys"; they are people, and people can lean one way or the other. Holding a title, badge, and gun does not change who you are.

 

[mreddie]

Cops already have have a bad rep as it is recently, the last 5 months is just giving them a black eye at this point.

 

[gogosox82]

"Don't interrupt my power trip"

This

DON'T BE BLACK

And This

 

[TheFightingFish]

For what it's worth, in spite of lots about his attitude that I really don't like he did say this in the op-ed:

I also believe every cop should use a body camera to record interactions with the community at all times. Every police car should have a video recorder.

Given how things are now I'd totally take a cop with a bad attitude who wants cop / community interactions to be recorded over a cop with a good attitude who is against cameras.

 

[Rest]

Since people in police uniforms have been shown to be violent thugs across the country, I sure as hell will treat any interaction with them as I would some one throwing up gang signs. That is, I'm going to assume they are trying to fuck me over.

And so does that mean you're going to escalate the situation? Because what I'm saying is this: you can't control the cop, don't make it worse.

The heart of the Op-Ed is this: if an officer is treating you in an illegal and/or aggressive manner, allow it to happen and report the incident later.

My point is that you should not acquiesce to an officer treating you in an illegal and/or aggressive manner. You should not provoke them, you should not attack them, but you should not comply with their demands. If the officer threatens to arrest or detain you, let them. If the officer threatens to physically harm you, let them.

Change will only happen when officers can no longer coerce citizens into accepting illegal policing methods with the threat of violence and arrest. Period.

I have not, and I never would, say that routine interactions with police officers should be combative. I simply do not agree that police officers are "good guys"; they are people, and people can lean one way or the other. Holding a title, badge, and gun does not change who you are.

There's no need to not agree that cops are good guys, I never said they were. But from most of your posts, it seems like you're saying that we all need to just ignore cops when they tell us to do things, and that's not going to have a good outcome. If that's not what you're saying, then I think we're on the same page.

As for not letting cops do illegal things, or disobeying them if they tell you to do something illegal, I think you're wrong. Like I said, you need to have witnesses who understand why what the cop is doing is wrong, or why what they're telling you to do is wrong if you're going to disobey them. Because if you don't, you're going to either have them throw the book at you, make up infractions, or become violent with you. If your point of view is that that's a hornet's nest that you want to kick, then god's speed to you.

 

[commedieu]

hahahahahahahahahhahahah

buh buh... my friend is a cop, and derp.. he.. derp... stop generalizing!

Police in america need cameras on them, now.

And so does that mean you're going to escalate the situation? Because what I'm saying is this: you can't control the cop, don't make it worse.

Yes, let them take your rights. Let them do whatever they want. Just sit there, be a good citizen. Don't make it worse.. it will only hurt more.

Pathetic state of things considering the country was founded on dying for rights and freedom. So fucking pathetic.
The police are assaulting journalists. Hold them responsible immediately. And hold the entire broken justice system responsible, immediately. Detach private prisons from states, immediately.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

"He's just speaking the truth"

The truth is that he's a big fat bully with a gun and some of you are not even phased by the fact that a policeman is writing in one of the biggest newspapers of the nation that you may get shot, tased or beaten if you dare to do as much as talking back at him. Emphasis on talking.

And you accept it.

Because they know it likely won't happen to them. They're somehow trying to argue this person has valid points about not resisting while at the same time knowing for themselves it's about way more than whether a person is resisting. It's fucking gross.

 

[Metaphoreus]

My point is that you should not acquiesce to an officer treating you in an illegal and/or aggressive manner. You should not provoke them, you should not attack them, but you should not comply with their demands. If the officer threatens to arrest or detain you, let them. If the officer threatens to physically harm you, let them.

The beginning and end of this paragraph seem contradictory. Isn't letting the cop arrest, detain, or physically harm you "acquiescing"? If not, then how does it differ from what the article says, which appears to be more about decorum (even in resisting illegal demands) rather than giving in to illegal demands?

 

[AntoneM]

And so does that mean you're going to escalate the situation? Because what I'm saying is this: you can't control the cop, don't make it worse.

No, but, I'm going to assume that the cop will try to escalate the situation. Therefore I'm not going to volunteer any information and preferably leave the area before a cop sees me.

 

[jordan0386]

I have no problems with this piece.

However, black men aren't given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to stops.

Piece speaks of balance. Our real life doesn't have any balance. Its a groundhog day movie a lot of instances.

Weird Earth we have here. Wish we could start over.

 

[Hari Seldon]

He is speaking the truth from a practical perspective and a legal perspective, just not a moral perspective.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

INCORRECT.

Hee hee.

I said it in the other thread, this was the only thing Bayformers got right.

 

[Rest]

No, but, I'm going to assume that the cop will try to escalate the situation. Therefore I'm not going to volunteer any information and preferably leave the area before a cop sees me.

If the cop hasn't seen you, that's not an interaction. And by no means volunteer anything to a cop ever, even cops will tell you that. That's why we have the 5th Amendment. I'm not talking about either of those things though.

Yes, let them take your rights. Let them do whatever they want. Just sit there, be a good citizen. Don't make it worse.. it will only hurt more.

Pathetic state of things considering the country was founded on dying for rights and freedom. So fucking pathetic.
The police are assaulting journalists. Hold them responsible immediately. And hold the entire broken justice system responsible, immediately. Detach private prisons from states, immediately.

Tell me this: it's just you and the cop, no one else, no recording devices that you control, and since it's far from standard issue at this point, no body mounted camera on the cop's person. How is not doing what they say going to help you at all? When its your word against a cop's, chances are it's going to be the cop that the authorities believe, the only way they're going to believe you is if you have some kind of proof, and if they're giving you some kind of ticket, the chances of you being able to provide proof that anything they said isn't true is rather slim. If you're polite, and don't escalate things with the cop, chances are good they're just let you off with a warning, it's less paperwork and hassle for them. Why would you mouth off to them? If they asked you to take a step back, or sit, or show them your ID, why would you not? What does that gain you? The cop would reasonably believe they're the authority figure in the situation, why would you make things harder for them? Please explain that.

 

[pj]

Because they know it likely won't happen to them. They're somehow trying to argue this person has valid points about not resisting while at the same time knowing for themselves it's about way more than whether a person is resisting. It's fucking gross.

Why don't we do what this cop suggests and put chest cameras on all cops? Just because I'm white, unlikely to be hassled, and advocate compliance doesn't mean that I want to see minorities get pushed around.

 

[Pickles the Firecat]

Cheers for the post, I think I get where you're coming from now. I think we agree on the problem, but have different values for the costs:benefits of resisting illegal force by cops.

Which is totally fair, bruh.

The beginning and end of this paragraph seem contradictory. Isn't letting the cop arrest, detain, or physically harm you "acquiescing"? If not, then how does it differ from what the article says, which appears to be more about decorum (even in resisting illegal demands) rather than giving in to illegal demands?

No. Acquiescing is providing identification when you are not required to. Acquiescing is allowing an officer to search your property upon request. Acquiescing is turning over your property during an illegal search and seizure attempt. Acquiescing is turning off your camera while filming legally.

Acquiescing is complying with the demands of an officer who has no authority to make them. If you are threatened illegally (violence, detainment, or arrest) when these demands are made you should allow the officer to follow through on that threat as opposed to complying. What the officer's Op-Ed states is:

Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?

You can refuse consent to search your car or home if there’s no warrant (though a pat-down is still allowed if there is cause for suspicion). Always ask the officer whether you are under detention or are free to leave. Unless the officer has a legal basis to stop and search you, he or she must let you go. Finally, cops are legally prohibited from using excessive force: The moment a suspect submits and stops resisting, the officers must cease use of force.

Which is absurd.

 

[Pickles Spill]

This is sort of a side note, but what's the main problem people have the the phrase "aggressively walking towards me?" If someone is barreling towards you, wouldn't you feel very, very uncomfortable?

 

[Angry Grimace]

I just find it fucking mindblowing that its MY responsibility to keep the cops calm.

 

[Siegcram]

This is sort of a side note, but what's the main problem people have the the phrase "aggressively walking towards me?" If someone is barreling towards you, wouldn't you feel very, very uncomfortable?

That it means nothing and can be applied to anything?

 

[FunkyMunkey]

This is sort of a side note, but what's the main problem people have the the phrase "aggressively walking towards me?" If someone is barreling towards you, wouldn't you feel very, very uncomfortable?

Barreling towards someone isn't really walking though, is it?

 

[J10]

Thanks, I needed more reasons to hate cops.

 

[FStubbs]

You're going to have to summarize for me because I googled and it was all law gibberish to me.



That is complete nonsense and you know it. A bad cop may SAY that in defense of something they did illegally, but no court would convict someone of the crime of resisting arrest for "struggling to breathe"

No, but plenty of courts would say "you know, that [black] guy was resisting, let's let the cop off the hook, being a cop is a tough job, you know"

 

[jchap]

Cooperate, let them have their way, then get your vengeance in the legal system. I never give a cop a chance to demonstrate his idiocy.

 

[gutter_trash]

most cops who abuse their autority were bullies in school,

I worked at a McDonald's with a guy who was studying at a Police Academy.
The guy was a large ass jerk off. He became a cop and served for a good 10 years.

But eventually he got arrested for assault and battery on his girlfriend .

I won't post any links on who it is because that could be against GAF rules but eh, he was a bully in a fast food restaurant, was a bully to his girlfriend, I'm pretty sure he was jerk on the job

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

This is sort of a side note, but what's the main problem people have the the phrase "aggressively walking towards me?" If someone is barreling towards you, wouldn't you feel very, very uncomfortable?

Because look at how easy of an excuse this is. You have to realize these things are coverups. Cops use black people being scary as a relatable point to get themselves off the hook.