chronic_archaic
Member
I mostly suck at UT but Doom is a great modern version of the arena shooter - though I'd prefer if loadouts were ditched and the customization was dialed back a lot.
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LawBreakers' peak concurrent Steam playerbase dropped to 431 today [Up2: Down to 302]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
The designs are consistent and make sense for the world and purpose of the game. It's more grounded. But they look different, even between the two characters in the same class as you know since you play the game. And for the characters inside the same class, their body type needs to be the same so the hitboxes don't vary.
Seth Enosh
Member
Looks like he was trying to say the matchmaking algorithms were bad and they had unintentionally made a "dark souls" where most people were getting killed (20% win rate). And that they were gonna change it so it wouldn't be like "dark souls" anymore and people would be matched at their skill level.The full quote doesn't make it make any more sense, unfortunately.
Quote would be improved greatly by just removing the first words as the dark souls part is begging for misinterpretation.
SimpleCRIPPLE
Member
". The cries about Rainbow Six Siege and Battlefront not having SP campaigns say hello, but yeah Blizzard got a pass I agree on that. Not sure why though."
Rainbow Six and Battlefront always had single player, so going multi-player only upset people. R6 is a good enough game that it's clawed it's way out of that hole.
Battlefront on the other hand, ditched single player and launched with too little content. Many agree that had battlefront launched with all the season pass content on Day 1, it would have been better received without single player.
Overwatch got a pass because it launched with a large diverse roster and map collection. People looked at what content was included at launch and felt the $60 price was fair, especially since dlc would be funded by cosmetic loot boxes, not a separate season pass. Pay your $60 and you're set.
Rainbow Six and Battlefront always had single player, so going multi-player only upset people. R6 is a good enough game that it's clawed it's way out of that hole.
Battlefront on the other hand, ditched single player and launched with too little content. Many agree that had battlefront launched with all the season pass content on Day 1, it would have been better received without single player.
Overwatch got a pass because it launched with a large diverse roster and map collection. People looked at what content was included at launch and felt the $60 price was fair, especially since dlc would be funded by cosmetic loot boxes, not a separate season pass. Pay your $60 and you're set.
Ploid 3.0
Member
I love the way the characters look, very interesting, but I can't hang with this FPS, it looked too hardcore to me.
Maybe that it has unforgiving gameplay. Skills is king.
The Souls games aren't that difficult if you are able to adapt, and be patient. I could run through Demon's Souls like it was a walk in the park, though my first play through it was a bit nerve racking, especially the dark prison with the mind flayer.
Maybe that it has unforgiving gameplay. Skills is king.
The Souls games aren't that difficult if you are able to adapt, and be patient. I could run through Demon's Souls like it was a walk in the park, though my first play through it was a bit nerve racking, especially the dark prison with the mind flayer.
D
Deleted member 325805
Unconfirmed Member
I think he was trying to sell the game to the most hardcore FPS players, implying it was a very hard game to master and it worked, all 500 of them bought it and are enjoying it immensely from what I've read.
17 Seconds
Banned
the circle jerk over this game failing is a perfect example of how awful gamers are
17 Seconds
Banned
you act like gamers need a valid reason to shit on something
Lmao
Did you hear him say any of this stuff verbally? His actual aural tone sounded very "holier than thou" pretty much every time he spoke.
Messofanego
Banned
It's a village, alright. I've seen the same players in different games repeating lol.
That's your inherent bias. I always thought Cliff was rather intelligent and understood how to make good games. All I care about is the final product - and LawBreakers is one hell of a good game. I don't need to be pandered to all the time.
This is wrong.
In a "hero shooter," they are very important.
Having memorable characters and a great artstyle is a huge part of why Overwatch took off the way it did.
I don't agree. I think it's okay. It has some neat ideas but didn't grab me at all.
That's fine, obviously. To each their own. But the characters being terrible has been a very common criticism and it's clearly hurt the game.
In a interview Cliffy said he knew that there was only room for 2-3 games to be successful in a genre and that he was hopeful to be #2 or 3 behind Overwatch. I think the hate comes from people that dislike Cliffy, Fanboys, and people that don't want others leaving their choice game.
Messofanego
Banned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ4v2LgVlEA#t=7m25s (Crowbcat)
"One of the main things that is going to make us stand out is our tone. The fact that we're a mature rated game or more of an adult one. Our world is less saturated, it's not fully DayGlo like a lot of those characters. A lot of those games, as great as they look, they look like they're for a younger crowd. Whimsical characters instead of ones I find aspirational, a little more Quentin Tarantino...Overwatch feels like it's skewed towards an anime fan type vibe." - Cliff Bleszinski
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-V74wkp5CM&feature=youtu.be&t=267 Is this really that? Calling the game fantastic. Or is him mentioning his wife playing Overwatch ment as "Overwatch is a game for girls, eeew!"
Why do people keep linking to Crowbcat reels rather than the actual interviews that offer full context and not just cherry picked quotes, blows my mind.
Yeah how those heroes play is important, I can't think of one character from Overwatch that plays better than most of the classes in LB (haven't played the newer characters though). Ofcourse their design goals with the characters are different too, so I don't believe it's fair to say that Lawbreakers characters play objectively better. But they have more mobility, they are faster, shooting is more precision based and less emphasis on the cooldowns. While Overwatch goes for more casual kind of vibe. This is why I prefer how LB plays over OW.
Yeah that's quite fair, you don't have time to stop and admire the art. It's all about the gameplay.How it looks ingame:
How it looks ingame:The designs are consistent and make sense for the world and purpose of the game. It's more grounded. But they look different, even between the two characters in the same class as you know since you play the game. And for the characters inside the same class, their body type needs to be the same so the hitboxes don't vary.
Which ones are the characters that you get confused with each other?
StoppedInTracks
Member
Didn't play the game just read the thread and watched that CrowbCat video. Some very conflicting thoughts:
+ CliffyB knows how to make an FPS game. Unreal Tournament was fantastic and a milestone for the whole genre.
+ the game looks on-point with very nice graphics and very good character models
+ game looks Quake... errr I mean Unreal Tourney-level fast which is a big plus
+ it seems to me that there were no launch errors and failures etc.
+ $29.99 price point (awesome)
- CliffyB and his big mouth:
a) the Dark Souls of FPS games? Really?!?
b) I will make a $1B new IP... really???
- the influencers from YT/ Twitch showed some forced reactions/ praises
- with the current players numbers the game will fall down even further because no one will want to buy it and play it because no one is already playing it etc.
In the end I cannot understand what went wrong here. Is it really because of the behemoth Overwatch? But as CliffyB said himself there can co-exist BF and CoD so why not Overwatch and LB?
+ CliffyB knows how to make an FPS game. Unreal Tournament was fantastic and a milestone for the whole genre.
+ the game looks on-point with very nice graphics and very good character models
+ game looks Quake... errr I mean Unreal Tourney-level fast which is a big plus
+ it seems to me that there were no launch errors and failures etc.
+ $29.99 price point (awesome)
- CliffyB and his big mouth:
a) the Dark Souls of FPS games? Really?!?
b) I will make a $1B new IP... really???
- the influencers from YT/ Twitch showed some forced reactions/ praises
- with the current players numbers the game will fall down even further because no one will want to buy it and play it because no one is already playing it etc.
In the end I cannot understand what went wrong here. Is it really because of the behemoth Overwatch? But as CliffyB said himself there can co-exist BF and CoD so why not Overwatch and LB?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-V74wkp5CM&feature=youtu.be&t=267 Is this really that? Calling the game fantastic. Or is him mentioning his wife playing Overwatch ment as "Overwatch is a game for girls, eeew!"
Why do people keep linking to Crowbcat reels rather than the actual interviews that offer full context and not just cherry picked quotes, blows my mind.
Yeah how those heroes play is important, I can't think of one character from Overwatch that plays better than most of the classes in LB. Ofcourse their design goals with the characters are different too, so I don't believe it's fair to say that Lawbreakers characters play objectively better. But they have more mobility, they are faster, shooting is more precision based and less emphasis on the cooldowns. While Overwatch goes for more casual kind of vibe. This is why I prefer how LB plays over OW.
Yeah that's quite fair, you don't have time to stop and admire the art. It's all about the gameplay.
Dude, i like Cliff. I also think he's a good developer who's headed some great teams. But he totally overtalked LawBreakers. Even if that had no impact on sales, it's made him look baselessly arrogant on hindsight.
Like, Crowbcat's video pulls all the worst of it together. The "i'm going to make a million dollar ip" or whatever it was. Even at the time it was cringey salesman talk and now it's tragically so.
Shooters don't end there =P Even in the hero shooter genre there's also Team Fortress 2 (f2p) Paladins (f2p), Quake Champions (f2p option) and even when stretching the definition R6 kinda(?) since the characters have their own strenghts. PUBG isn't a hero shooter, but does take sizeable cut from gamers who might otherwise have the time, interest and funds to give LB a chance.
Taking him out of context might do that, and this is exactly what Crowbcat does. Hear and understand what is being said without relying on knee-jerk reactions (not that this is something you would do, but many do) and it's not all so bad.
Demoskinos
Member
Its been pretty ridiculous. Cliff says some dumb stuff. But at this point people are just being spiteful.
The Wraith
Member
I'm waiting for the eventual free to play version coming out.
Messofanego
Banned
What great injustice is being done that CliffyB being put in context would correct about what he's said?
That he would be throwing a shade on Overwatch or disrespecting it, which he is not as you can see in the interview that I shared. It has the timestamp for it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-V74wkp5CM&feature=youtu.be&t=267 Also in other interviews he has made clear that it works for OW but it's not what he personally prefers, he isn't saying that OW art style is inherently worse than theirs. There have also been claims that Cliffy would hate XboX, which ofcourse isn't true either and I assume you can definitely agree how stupid that sounds. That he only talked about Overwatch being anime without explaining what sets their game apart from the competition, this isn't correct either. And so on.
All of this comes off as kind of bullying, Cliffy is a big boy and can take it I'm sure. But I really hate all kind of toxicity. Wishing failure to their studio is extremely malicious and makes that person a terrible human being. Their work hasn't hurt anyone, but people are trying to justify this behaviour by twisting Cliff's quotes. So correcting when people might just honestly have misconceptions is something I can do and hope that some people would do a bit self-reflection on their attitudes and words towards other people.
Some people are for sure. If you look at it without any goggles on its a multiplayer shooter that released to very good reviews. Nothing else.
Professor Lexicovermis
Member
Choice 3: Before September 30th, 2017
T.Slothrop
Member
I don't think this is a spitefest at all. But it is worth looking at why a well-reviewed (and by most accounts fun to play) game is failing to get any traction.
So far I've gleaned that the:
Art style is underwhelming.
Advertised skill cap scared off potential casuals.
Field is crowded with excellence already.
What else are we missing?
So far I've gleaned that the:
Art style is underwhelming.
Advertised skill cap scared off potential casuals.
Field is crowded with excellence already.
What else are we missing?
sturgboski
Member
So like Overwatch is 1. I think (and I could be way wrong), but Paladins is 2? So then Battleborn, Quake and Lawbreakers are going for 3rd? (Quake I heard is a stretch as its not truly "hero" focused). Are there others? Do fringe titles count (like would Destiny 2 and its classes count as a "hero shooter" competition wise)?
Yeah i guess i should watch the full videos before i comment much further.
Mix Master
Member
WOAT advertising is a factor imo.
Glass Shark
Banned
.
To quote some musicians from New Zealand - "too many dicks on the dance floor"
It isn't just Overwatch that people are spending time with. And if that comparison is supposed to be insta death, it does not explain why Paladins has done so well. And since PC is apparently where the expectation for more of an audience was, it makes things more difficult. Even Battlefield does not have great player count on PC. The two most popular shooters on Steam have zero mechanical similarities to Lawbreakers. There just is not much of an arena shooter crowd to pull players from. Quake Champions will draw some with the free version, which this game needed.
Alexander DeLarge
Member
Easy to play, high skill ceiling? Punishing gameplay but fair?
Its not just Overwatch and LB. Its Overwatch, Paladins, TF2, Quake Champions, and Lawbreakers. LB and Overwatch are the only ones you have to buy to play. Its also worth mentioning that PUBG, while not an arena/hero shooter, is very popular right now and taking up a lot of room as well. Its a lot of things. I think its gonna to do f2p to compete honestly. That really is the only way I see it bouncing back.
Not sure what you are taking a stand on this game specifically, Battleborn was the poster child of this.
it was equally bad there aswell. I've noticed more and more the last few years how much people relish on some games failing.
Like, ok you dont like the game, thats fine, move on with your life and focus on the stuff you do like maybe?
I was going to say you dont really see that with movies for example, but then I remembered the MCU / DCU "war" so...yeah...
bananafactory
Banned
Games (esp multiplayer) are a bit different in that their commercial success directly affects peoples experience with them.
Poor selling online games will have a wide range of problems from minor to potentially making it unplayable for people who buy it.
Then blame the developers for making an unappealing game or the publishers for not marketing it correctly. People laughing at commercial failure changes nothing other than hurting the feelings of those who are probably too invested in the first place. The market realities were always there regardless of internet schadenfreude.
Ploid 3.0
Member
The movie industry isn't going to get to the brink of death, while the gaming industry is rumored to die once every 6 months. There may be too many games out, and it seems like the less popular games cause studios to disband sometimes (R.I.P. Sony broken up studios), or even popular games feel the need to supplement profits with micro transactions (GTA of all games, for example. Ruined GTA Online for me because they had to design around pushing people to want shark cards).
Just because games failed to capture an audience doesn't mean the game was bad. People can only play or buy but so many games. Gaf members with deep backlogs aren't the norm. With movies people go see them and later watch them on disk or ppv, then on TV/Streaming services, and each step gives the movie studio some profits. Games don't have that maturity in ways to make profits on their products.
If Lawbreakers was a movie, I'd give it a try even though I'm not into FPS... movies, but even at it's lower price I just know I won't enjoy it much. I'm not good enough at them as well so I'd just be pissing MP hardcore people off. I didn't even touch Overwatch PVP.
Just because games failed to capture an audience doesn't mean the game was bad. People can only play or buy but so many games. Gaf members with deep backlogs aren't the norm. With movies people go see them and later watch them on disk or ppv, then on TV/Streaming services, and each step gives the movie studio some profits. Games don't have that maturity in ways to make profits on their products.
If Lawbreakers was a movie, I'd give it a try even though I'm not into FPS... movies, but even at it's lower price I just know I won't enjoy it much. I'm not good enough at them as well so I'd just be pissing MP hardcore people off. I didn't even touch Overwatch PVP.
Chairmanchuck
Member
What if the marketing was right, but "game journalists"/twitch-streamers etc. did a poor job of representing a game?
Like I said before, look at how those people even compared it to OW while its not. Its like saying SWAT 4 is just Serious Sam.