marimorimo
Member
This is brilliant! I would have liked to take your teacher's class 😂
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Learning Japanese |OT| ..honor and shame are huge parts of it. Let's!
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This is brilliant! I would have liked to take your teacher's class 😂
Though a lot of grammar points in JP are able to be given an english equivalent they usually only carry one of the meanings of that equivalent, not all of them. You just gotta figure out for yourself which nuance of "as" として represents through seeing how it's used in sentences.
Another example would be "for" which has a bunch of different grammar points which represent it: に、ために、にとって、and probably more I'm not thinking of now or don't know yet.
For として think of it as describing the role of the noun.
先生として働きます。
I work as a teacher.
この古いピザ箱はいすとして使っている。
I'm using these old pizza boxes as a chair.
チョムスキーは言語学者としてよりも政治運動で有名かもしれない。
Chomsky is perhaps more famous for his political activities than as a linguist (I totally made this example up off the top of my head don't say I didn't.)
Tribes of Trusty
Member
Still learnin katakana. Struggling a little bit. Must complete it before doing grammar which must be more interesting.
Stupid question : Is there a rule in Japanese that katakana use for onomatopoeia is compulsory ? I think I saw some with hiragana.
Stupid question : Is there a rule in Japanese that katakana use for onomatopoeia is compulsory ? I think I saw some with hiragana.
TheSporkWithin
Member
They can be written in either. I think that writing "sound onomatopoeia" in hiragana tends to give a smoother, more organic impression. A google image search for コロコロ turns up a ton of pictures of paint rollers, while ころころ gives back a bunch of animals rolling over (along with a few paint rollers), for example. For other kinds of onomatopoeia I feel like the distinction is more difficult to succinctly define, but generally katakana has more "impact" while hiragana is more "smooth", which reflects the quality of the two syllabaries' characters.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
I've been trying to study for N2 with Sogo Matome...it gets so many recommendations but for grammar I find it frustrating and useless. It just gives the grammar form and then two example sentences with rough, non-exact translations. It doesn't really explain what the words I'm learning mean, variants, or their context, and often the example sentences don't even match up.
Like, am I missing something? How is this useful to anybody?
Like, am I missing something? How is this useful to anybody?
PreyingShark
Member
Hmm... Got any examples?
yeah she was the best grammar teacher at my university and was forced out by the head of the japanese institute because some students said her lessons are not serious enough -_-.......
I used (and still use) N3/N2/N1 of this series as a easy outline of all the grammar you supposedly need to know for N1. As is the case for the rest of the language study, it should be one part of a bigger picture. It is really just a list for me with easy sentences to refresh and some exam style questions.
You should be using the Grammar dictionary trilogy (blue yellow and red) to get in depth meanings, as well as the Internet (Jgram and Renshuu are both really good for quick explanations). By itself it is useless and a shit way to study so you're right to be frustrated at the book, but, like I said, you can Google any of those sentences for help. Eg
あげくJgram
上に renshuu
向け weblio
Will all net you results. Weblio being the best, but hardest to read (you may as well start going all Japanese dictionary now). A good one I picked up from Tae Kim the other day was searching for a term you don't know and typing とは at the end of it. So you can see a Japanese explanation on Yahoo.jp or something. Works particularly well for slang.
PreyingShark
Member
Congratulations! Enjoy yourself. 
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Damn kurita youre going to not make so much money with that sweet degree. Gratz!
Got my bachelor's degree in Japanese
Heading off to Tokyo for a year this August, I'll be "studying" at Rikkyo Daigaku (let's face it, I won't study a lot). Guess I'll pass N1 in December while I'm there.
Can't wait.
Congrats on the usel-
Oh.
But seriously though, congratulations anyway. Back when I got my Bachelor's and the opportunity to do an exchange year in Japan, some of us were actually sent to Rikkyô - I was sent to Kyûshû Daigaku; dat Kokuritsu fame. That's it, I have no opinion on Rikkyô, don't know what it was like for them over there. All I can say is that, yeah, you're so not gonna be studying, but you'll have a great time. In fact, you shouldn't be studying, unless that studying involves speaking Japanese with all the friends you'll make there.
Thanks haha
Don't worry, I'm not planning on stopping there, I'm aiming for a master's degree in trilingual translation (French/English/Japanese) when I come back. I know a Japanese degree doesn't get you anywhere haha
It's just that I didn't want to miss this opportunity, and having a year "off" can't hurt.
Thanks
And yeah that's the plan to be honest. Meet new people, have fun with them... I'm not too worried about that
I already know some people over there so it's cool.
OK, I've made up my mind. I'm taking up Japanese again concurrently with Russian, and I don't give a fuuuck. I've always learned better with my back against the wall anyway, and I love so much to learn new languages that I can't just wait until I'm "good enough" in Russian.
So.. wish me luck. I will definitely check out all the resources in here and bother you guys with stupid questions, sorry in advance.
So.. wish me luck. I will definitely check out all the resources in here and bother you guys with stupid questions, sorry in advance.
I have friends who have made good uses out of Japanese degrees and friends who haven't.
Like anything it comes down to one's ambition and resourcefulness.
The people who come to Japan with N1 and a finance degree and expect everything handed to them will get no where. (And they would need to use considerably less effort than the rest of us!)
Like anything it comes down to one's ambition and resourcefulness.
The people who come to Japan with N1 and a finance degree and expect everything handed to them will get no where. (And they would need to use considerably less effort than the rest of us!)
Congrats Kurita. A new chapter starts for you now. Make the most of the time you have over there!
Feel free to post any time, no matter how stupid you think the question is. Thread is full of people of different levels at the moment so you'll be bound to get an answer. Good luck!
Too late, you're in the bad books now.
Feel free to post any time, no matter how stupid you think the question is. Thread is full of people of different levels at the moment so you'll be bound to get an answer. Good luck!
Too late, you're in the bad books now.
Porcile
Member
One thing I've noticed in my brief time living here, and is always apparent in this thread, is that people with Japanese language/linguistic degrees, or people with formal Japanese education, or people going to Japanese language school are by far and away the mostly easily offended group of people I've ever encountered.
Loosen up, chaps.
Loosen up, chaps.
Porcile
Member
In real life? A couple people, but no one I encounter on a regular basis lol. I said a dumb joke to one guy with a language degree who is an elementary school ALT and I thought he was going to take a one-way trip to Aokigahara. Haven't seen or spoken to him since, but I think he's still alive.
Dude was also the quickest to whip out the linguistic degree brag when the conversation arose, so that probably tells you enough about him.
Dude was also the quickest to whip out the linguistic degree brag when the conversation arose, so that probably tells you enough about him.
Porcile
Member
Nothing more offensive than the dumb joke above. It was at my expense too. The guy was/is a complete idiot, but I think there is an undercurrent of pointless competitiveness about language learning, especially when you decide to spend thousands to learn one, or two, or three. Massive generalisations of course, and only based on the few randoms I've met so far.
tomakasatnav
Member
I need to up my game!
I did GCSE a couple of years ago, lots of it forgotten. Now I might be going to Japan for work in July. While I don't need Japanese for work while I'm out there, want to be able to do some.
I did GCSE a couple of years ago, lots of it forgotten. Now I might be going to Japan for work in July. While I don't need Japanese for work while I'm out there, want to be able to do some.
No we're not easily offended SCREW YOU PORCILE YOU'RE JUSt JELLY CAUSE YOU DIDNT GET INTO A STATE UNIVERSITY LIKE ME I'M TEH BEST AT J-GO
Übersandvich
Member
Anyone willing to recommend a japanese gaming forum with quality posts like Neogaf?
P)
P)TheSporkWithin
Member
Just took a mock N2 test for the first time. 148/180 (90 to pass). I finished the language section with 40 minutes to spare, which is just a stupid amount of extra time - I should have gone back over all of my answers and not just the ones I had marked as unsure, might have caught some more of the dumb mistakes I made.
Anyway, I don't suppose anyone has ever used the 日本語能力試験スーパー模試 book by アルク? Wondering if it's significantly easier than the actual exam or something.
The listening section in particular felt way too easy, but I don't really know what I should be expecting there either. On one of the choose the response questions I literally laughed out loud, and I missed the start of the next question because I just couldn't stop.
Anyway, I don't suppose anyone has ever used the 日本語能力試験スーパー模試 book by アルク? Wondering if it's significantly easier than the actual exam or something.
The listening section in particular felt way too easy, but I don't really know what I should be expecting there either. On one of the choose the response questions I literally laughed out loud, and I missed the start of the next question because I just couldn't stop.
女の人：すみませんが、ちょっと力を貸していただけますか？
①いいですよ、何をしましょうか。
②来週には返してくださいね。
③今、他の人が借りています。
①いいですよ、何をしましょうか。
②来週には返してくださいね。
③今、他の人が借りています。
Porcile
Member
I just tried the N2 practice questions on the website for a laugh. I did fine on the reading comprehension questions but listening wasn't as good lol. The thing I struggle with is while I understand topics to certain degree, I can't really keep up with the stuff the speakers are alluding to but not outright saying, if that makes sense? Especially the N1 questions. My listening comprehension is crappy though. Even basic shit if my brain isn't switched to Japanese mode lol. I guess that's just inexperience. Even so, the listening portion of these tests seem easier than they should be.
You seem pretty far along in your study and you've been living in Japan for some time now, right? Like, you've been reading novels - that's likely why N2 feels easy. I haven't studied that series, but those kind of listening questions I would imagine are naturally pretty easy for you.
That's why I wanted to know from ppl who had taken the exams what kind of level of listening to expect. I'm expecting the worst, but would feel a bit more at ease knowing it was only slighter harder than what you just posted
If you've taken N2 or N1 in the last year now is the time to speak up!
TheSporkWithin
Member
Yeah, I've been here for just shy of two years, but my Japanese was pretty crap when I got here (I passed the N4 with a 98 or something last January). I still feel out of my depth a lot of the time but I've gotten better at barreling through. I'm reading novels, but I read them so damn slowly compared to even my junior high school students, and I still forget kanji readings in the upper echelons of the joyo (and god forbid I'm given a word and asked to write it). I constantly butcher sentences when I try to use causative and passive forms - there are a billion little things that I feel like I still need to nail down before I could claim to be "advanced," especially when it comes to production. If there was a written/spoken component on the JLPT I don't know how I'd do without access to a dictionary.
I've been feeling fairly confident about this test, but it still felt way easier than I was expecting. I've heard people talk about barely passing the N2, or passing it on their third try or whatever, and here I am feeling like "man, maybe I should have just gone straight for the N1." It's hard to put into words, but it feels like there's been some sort of mistake, and the actual test can't possibly be the same level of difficulty.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Its a memorization test with no variable content..it is that easy
marimorimo
Member
I took Level 2 back in 2005 and I think I got about 70% in the listening portion. It wasn't particularly difficult but I got tripped up with some vocabulary I wasn't familiar with. That and a terrible tendency for my mind to wander away during listening exams.
The listening portion of the N1 exam I took back in 2013 was the most surprising for me. I could hardly believe my ears. Did the test proctor mistakenly play the N3 CD? Nope, but there I was expecting to listen to some incredibly convoluted conversation and the questions were N2 level at best. I swear the listening portion of the TOEIC exam was at least twice as hard, and I've been speaking English since I was 4. (The English conversations I was forced to listen to there were pointlessly misleading and also incredibly boring. But that applies to the TOEIC as a whole)
marimorimo
Member
People on TV speak faster than the people on the test, so if you can keep up with the TV I would think you could keep up with the test. But if you've never taken the JLPT before, it wouldn't hurt to listen to some practice questions so you can get a feel for it (generally just some man and woman speaking).
I took last years test and have done an N1 practice exam including listening, moved quite fast but wasn't anything crazy. I think just to be safe I'll pick up a book + CD and focus on that over the next few weeks..
Spork - you should be feeling pretty good based off what Marimo just said
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
I rubbed shoulders with a dear guyjin this morning on the ginza. Could be one of you guys. Dont let your dreams be dreams.
TheSporkWithin
Member
It's a great supplementary resource for reviewing or getting a different/deeper perspective on some topics, but I don't know if it works so well as a core text having never used it as such. I generally link it to it people they're struggling with a grammar point that they learned about but don't completely understand.
I see. It does look a little more in-depth than other resources. Thank you!
I've been going on and off learning from this book for a few years.
I'm finally determined to get a lot under my belt now that I have this entire Summer off, and I was wondering if anyone knows if a book that goes through Hiragana/Katakana and their proper usage is a good way to start.
if you want a print book to learn kana then Heisig's Remembering the Kana is good.
you don't really need a book to learn kana though. Tae Kim's site is free and has pronunciation guides.
proper usage is easy. Hiragana for native japanese words, katakana for foreign words.
TheSporkWithin
Member
Before you start you should change your mindset a bit. Hiragana and katakana are not huge roadblocks, they're something that you should knock out in a few weeks time, which can easily overlap with your first steps into Japanese vocabulary and grammar. This doesn't mean that you'll have 100% mastery of them or be able to sight read, but that only comes with time and exposure. If you go into this expecting them to take forever, they probably will. Just jump in and get it done, don't overthink it.
Give this starter's guide a read, bust out some pen and paper and spend half an hour each day practicing writing the hiragana table out by hand while saying the sounds aloud. After a week you shouldn't need to check the table for reference very often at all. After two it should be easy. Repeat with katakana.