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Lisa: The Painful RPG: The Best Game You Never Played (but should)

Red

Member
I've seen Anodyne recommended by other LISA fans, but haven't tried it myself. Off looks interesting.

I think it's good! Very peculiar sensibilities...

But it can honestly be very confusing in terms of level layout, simply knowing where you need to go... limited resources and permanent penalties (you can straight up lose teammates through random events you have pretty much no control over) doesn't make this one particularly inviting or an enjoyable experience to play.

But that's totally fine.
There is only one random event I can think of which the player has no control over. I say it's the game's weakest section. It's the only time I reloaded a save—and I had to, because I'd lost so many party members I could no longer progress. It is the only blemish on what is otherwise a fair, if often punishing, experience.

There are some enemies with insta-kill moves, but you can pick up on the cues before these guys pretty early on. Whenever a battle is framed as unusual in some way, there is a chance you may be hit with a perma-kill attack. There is a certain class of enemy which seems likely to use perma-kill attacks, but again this is easy to recognize early on. It works in the player's favor to attack as aggressively as possible, to kill baddies as fast as possible. The best defense is a good offense.

Perma-death did not bother me too much, since characters are plentiful and generously parceled throughout the game. You'll be recruiting new dudes til the end. I lost one of my most reliably powerful attackers fairly late in the game, but he was easily replaced since the roster is so versatile.

Perma-death works really well here. I don't think LISA would be as good without it.

I also don't get the complaint about level layout, which is always straightforward. Whatever branching paths you take almost always lead to something worthwhile, and none stray far from the main path. Each area is centered around a hub which may be quick-traveled to from nearly anywhere in the world. There is a unique look for each area and many landmarks to orient yourself. I thought LISA's world was one of its most intriguing features.
 

Musolf815

Member
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuude, if you are a fan of wrestling you need to play this game. There are so many wrestling references it's absurd. A gym of dudes working out quoting wrestling intro music to the EWC, an arena-esque area where the Shockmaster joins your party and you take on wrestlers to win mags and the belt! It was amazingly hilarious if you have any wrestling knowledge as the references came from someone who knows a bunch about it.

Alright that sold me, I love references to bad wrestling stuff (and good ones too if they're in there!).
 
I read this post two days ago in the train and got carried away by your presentation of the game. And today I'm carried away by the game itself thanks to you.

I would like to thank you, and tell you how wonderful your essay is. It was so nice to read it, even for someone like me who has english for a second language.

Aw, that's really nice to hear! I'm glad I could get you interested and enjoy it!

Is there any site where the game is on sale?

You've got me really itching to try this out but, being a little strapped for cash, I guess I'll just have to wait for a good ol'fashioned steam sale.

It regularly goes on sale on Steam, I believe. I mean it's 10 bucks so it doesn't drop a ton but hey, if 3 bucks convinces you then shoot for the moon!

I think it's good! Very peculiar sensibilities...

But it can honestly be very confusing in terms of level layout, simply knowing where you need to go... limited resources and permanent penalties (you can straight up lose teammates through random events you have pretty much no control over) doesn't make this one particularly inviting or an enjoyable experience to play.

But that's totally fine.

What's funny is that as I was ranting about gameplay enhancing story/characters/whatever I'd say that the level design and penalties creating a uninviting and somewhat painful experience...is sorta awesome. The world it creates is an unforgiving and shitty place and the people in it are awful. They die at the drop of a hat, do awful things and all. And...the gameplay backs it up. Sometimes shit just happens and it's awful. That's the world they created.

That might not be what everyone looks for in a game, but I appreciate a game that utilizes the medium it's in to enhance and tell it's story even if that story isn't a nice one.

Alright that sold me, I love references to bad wrestling stuff (and good ones too if they're in there!).

Hey OP, on the strength of this thread alone, I'm going to buy and play Lisa. Thanks for the awesome post.

Excellent! I hope you guys enjoy!
 

K.Sabot

Member
LISA the Joyful hype tonightttttt

Steam achievements are out

DON'T LOOK AT THEM, I've been told there's spoilers.

Anyone have OT privileges for LISA the Joyful? If not I can throw one together tomorrow but it won't look pretty.
 
Only played a little so far but it is incredibly satisfying playing as
Buddy and Rando

That said, as DLC and with it probably being shorter, the game starts off with way less subtle writing then Lisa: The Painful. Seemed a bit...talky for a game that had a slow burn. But whatever it's still good.

Edit: HOLY SHIT! Confirmation that Buzzo
was that blonde kid with trouble at home in Brad's karate class and that he knew Lisa

Edit x2: Ugh. Holy shit. Okay, so this game is a bit more vociferous and blunt about what's going on but it only took a little bit for it to start having the same emotional flavor and punch of Lisa: The Painful. I am...doing some stuff I am very uncomfortable doing. And I can kinda see what's happening and why it's happening but I can't do anything to prevent it. This is gonna be some rough shit.
 

Red

Member
How do you play The Joyful? When I choose play now I get into The Painful.

Thought maybe you had to start the Joyful after the Painful's ending so I redid the final boss, but that just returns me to th title screen. What gives?
 
When you open it on Steam it should come up with a little menu that says to play Lisa, Lisa in vintage mode, Lisa: The Joyful and Lisa: The Joyful in vintage. If that doesn't come up, I'm not sure because even before the DLC I always got that menu on start up. I know a couple other people are having issues too on the forums tho so it may be a specific issue
 
Beat this today. I loved the writing and art. I didn't like the design of the exploration though, because it was completely confusing and I missed a bunch of areas simply because I couldn't remember where they were to return to. It was pretty discouraging in that way. I would've liked it better had I been able to understand the structure of the areas and fully explore them before moving on. I'll definitely play the DLC though.
 
Yeah, the exploration could get a little confusing at times but I guess since I 100% every game I play due to brain problems it didn't big me much.

Meanwhile Lisa: The Joyful must be one of them there ironic names because holy shit this DLC is oppressively depressing. Holy shit it is just horror after horror until the end where it kicks you in your rectum and puts sad, crying slugs inside of it. Jesus wept.

Edit: Finished it, gonna try for the other ending. I have some serious misgivings about this DLC basically centered around lack of humor, uneven combat (that almost makes it necessary to use certain items that I worried would affect your endings) and the much less subtle and blunt narrative and lore expansion BUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTT I still say it is worth the 5 bucks. And that ending, my god, that ending. Everything after the last list guy fight was fucking excellent. And super rough. The music for the last series of fights was fantastic and heartbreaking. As much as the original game made me emotional and sad, I only came close to crying due to the type of sadness it inflicted. But holy shit yo, I got to the end of this game and there's one particular line in the middle of a fight and a character's name changes and with the music...it was too much dudes. I fucking started weeping.
 

Red

Member
I just beat the first "boss" of the Joyful, or whatever these story battles can be called. It's a weird DLC, a departure from the Painful in a lot of ways. Lots more exposition. the Painful makes a stronger impression up front, and a lot of what I'm doing in the Joyful feels inconsequential. It makes sense why I am doing what I'm doing, but the motivation is not as compelling as the last game. It also feels much easier. And did I miss it, or is there really no pain mode option this time around?

I'm still looking forward to playing more.

One nice touch: many enemies are now fire-resistant. Not that this affects the game much. Maybe later on it will require a tactics change, but right now most battles are easy to brute force.

Healing items seem a lot more valuable in the DLC. And I'm not sure what the "tired" side effect really does.

A question: is the only benefit from correct timing on Decisive Stab a bleed status infliction?

Well, the game suddenly becomes much harder. Fuck me.

It becomes brutal at what I assume is th halfway point.

Seems like the game is designed to force you to use joy. I've inflicted massive damage on some of these enemies (see: Harry), and made no progress. I am at a point in the game where every cave brings me to an impossible end. Haven't tried using joy yet, but I might just have to.
 

Ionic

Member
I haven't gotten the Pain Mode ending yet. Before I start playing it, does The Joyful use stuff from that ending? Should I beat Pain Mode first?
 

Red

Member
Finished the Joyful. Pretty easy using joy, which is everywhere in this game. the Painful is a much better game. More interesting, better presented, more complex. The choices in the Joyful are really just triggers for different endings, and don't lead to any real consequences. The Joyful furthers a few things from the Painful's story, but does not really explore character motivations in a satisfying way. And Buddy as a protagonist is not nearly as interesting as I'd hoped.

Will play through again, because I hurried through near the end and skipped a few doors. For those wondering, I got the (post-game spoilers)
Yado ending, which involves him stating his evil world-take-overy plan and shooting his wife.

This is less a stand alone game and more a vehicle for tying up loose ends, many of which were better off left undone. It feels more like post-game DLC instead of the sequel it's billed as.

It's not bad, but where the Painful was revelatory, the Joyful is by-the-numbers. Where the Painful wrestled with consequence, the Joyful pushes you along its preordained path. This might be thematically relevant (
Buzzo and Yado reveal at the end that Buddy was a pawn, and while she felt free and in control she was more at the mercy of their wiles than anyone else. She was the biggest cog in the machine, and fulfilled her role in keeping it all moving.
), but it is not compelling to me as a player. The Painful impressed me with its choice-driven narrative and permanent consequences, but the Joyful simply takes me along for the ride. I am not the actor in this play, I am the audience.

tbh it seems like Dingaling realized Buddy was not very interesting, because she's really just a means of further exploring Brad's story. She was plopped into the world without much justification,
and like two lines of dialogue are used to address that.

I don't want to hate on this DLC because I appreciate what LISA is as a series, and I love the second game. But the Joyful feels misguided. Too many answers provided to satisfy fan demand, when really the Painful stood on its own without any explanation. And what does it answer, really? In some ways the Joyful weakens the story,
relegating Yado to a Kefka-esque madman with no real motivation for his evil.

Is there a reward for not killing
the pacifists?
I thought the set up there was interesting but it doesn't pose any real dilemma. If you have no temptation to be violent, what's the point? This could have been a great opportunity to sacrifice something in order to be good.

Question on the ending:
who's the father of Buddy's child?
 

sinxtanx

Member
finally started playing the Painful...

so this got most GOTY awards for 2014, right? can't imagine that anyone would neglect the indie scene for that
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
I hope Dingaling never quits making games. I didn't play it myself but I watched a let's play and The Painful was an amazing blend of humour, weird shit, freaky shit, serious and sad moments.
Couple that a banging soundtrack and we've got a winner.

I'm buying the game out of principle as soon as I can afford it, the man deserves my cash, I'll get the DLC with that and play through it myself
 

Red

Member
I agree. As disappointing as the Joyful might be it's clear this guy has a lot of good ideas. Would love to see him do another 10+ hour game.
 

Roarer

Member
Bought this during the summer sale and finally played it last week after seeing this thread. Liked it a lot, soundtrack is amazing and the atmosphere is great.

Will probably buy the DLC sometime later.
 

The Finest Brew

Neo Member
Finally beat The Painful and The Joyful. Tried my hand at The First, but I'm nooooot a fan of obtuse game design.

That said, I loved the world of Lisa, and wouldn't mind seeing more games set in Olathe. At the very least, maybe an exploration on
what caused all the women to disappear, or how the Joy Mutants actually came to be/why they exist in the first place. Did they show up after the world ended? Were they the cause of it?
 

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
Finished the Joyful. Pretty easy using joy, which is everywhere in this game. the Painful is a much better game. More interesting, better presented, more complex. The choices in the Joyful are really just triggers for different endings, and don't lead to any real consequences. The Joyful furthers a few things from the Painful's story, but does not really explore character motivations in a satisfying way. And Buddy as a protagonist is not nearly as interesting as I'd hoped.

Will play through again, because I hurried through near the end and skipped a few doors. For those wondering, I got the (post-game spoilers)
Yado ending, which involves him stating his evil world-take-overy plan and shooting his wife.

This is less a stand alone game and more a vehicle for tying up loose ends, many of which were better off left undone. It feels more like post-game DLC instead of the sequel it's billed as.

It's not bad, but where the Painful was revelatory, the Joyful is by-the-numbers. Where the Painful wrestled with consequence, the Joyful pushes you along its preordained path. This might be thematically relevant (
Buzzo and Yado reveal at the end that Buddy was a pawn, and while she felt free and in control she was more at the mercy of their wiles than anyone else. She was the biggest cog in the machine, and fulfilled her role in keeping it all moving.
), but it is not compelling to me as a player. The Painful impressed me with its choice-driven narrative and permanent consequences, but the Joyful simply takes me along for the ride. I am not the actor in this play, I am the audience.

tbh it seems like Dingaling realized Buddy was not very interesting, because she's really just a means of further exploring Brad's story. She was plopped into the world without much justification,
and like two lines of dialogue are used to address that.

I don't want to hate on this DLC because I appreciate what LISA is as a series, and I love the second game. But the Joyful feels misguided. Too many answers provided to satisfy fan demand, when really the Painful stood on its own without any explanation. And what does it answer, really? In some ways the Joyful weakens the story,
relegating Yado to a Kefka-esque madman with no real motivation for his evil.

Is there a reward for not killing
the pacifists?
I thought the set up there was interesting but it doesn't pose any real dilemma. If you have no temptation to be violent, what's the point? This could have been a great opportunity to sacrifice something in order to be good.

Question on the ending:
who's the father of Buddy's child?

is there any benefit to beating lisa the joyful without using joy? ive been avording it.
 
Sadly going to have to mirror other people's take on this; still a cool looking, great sounding romp, but the story lacked a lot of the charm Painful did, they went far too extreme with Buddy's sudden personality shift to the point where I didn't care for her and the gameplay is very simplistic given
joy use is mandatory and there's only two playstyles in the DLC, one of which is just Armstrong style again.
Definitely easier and more linear than Painful.

I would still recommend it to LISA fans, but this feels like like a sequel and more just a few hours spent wrapping up some loose ends you could already sort of infer. Even the endgame/ending didn't hit me like Painful's did, though
the fight with Buddy's memories of Brad
got very close.

Question on the ending:
who's the father of Buddy's child?
It's very clearly meant to be Monstrosity Brad, as fucked up as that is.

is there any benefit to beating lisa the joyful without using joy? ive been avording it.
It's near impossible to achieve a joyless run and I remember reading on /v/ (so maybe take this with a grain of salt) that the few people who've somehow managed to do this got nothing new, ending or achievement-wise.
 
I'll write up stronger impressions when I have some time but if you can complete a Joyless run on Joyful then you're a fucking cheater.

I tried but immediately stopped as soon as I realized that 1. Using Joy restores your life 2. You get nothing for going Joyless.

There are 3 endings however, and I've gotten 2 so far.
 

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
Sadly going to have to mirror other people's take on this; still a cool looking, great sounding romp, but the story lacked a lot of the charm Painful did, they went far too extreme with Buddy's sudden personality shift to the point where I didn't care for her and the gameplay is very simplistic given
joy use is mandatory and there's only two playstyles in the DLC, one of which is just Armstrong style again.
Definitely easier and more linear than Painful.

I would still recommend it to LISA fans, but this feels like like a sequel and more just a few hours spent wrapping up some loose ends you could already sort of infer. Even the endgame/ending didn't hit me like Painful's did, though
the fight with Buddy's memories of Brad
got very close.

It's very clearly meant to be Monstrosity Brad, as fucked up as that is.


It's near impossible to achieve a joyless run and I remember reading on /v/ (so maybe take this with a grain of salt) that the few people who've somehow managed to do this got nothing new, ending or achievement-wise.

ah ok
 

The Finest Brew

Neo Member
It's very clearly meant to be Monstrosity Brad, as fucked up as that is.

I'm pretty sure it's not Brad whose the father. There's a heavy implication that Buddy was actually raped by one of Rando's men while Rando was completely out of it from his wounds. Which would explain why he didn't want to associate with his (former) companions. It would also explain why Buddy's anger suddenly seemed to be off-the-rails randomly, I'd say. It definitely wasn't Buzzo or one of his men, or Marty (the other two characters people would likely point to due to their relationship with Lisa).
 

Red

Member
It's very clearly meant to be Monstrosity Brad, as fucked up as that is.
Guess that's the best possible outcome. Wasn't sure what was going on there since
I chose to leave Rando and Brad behind, but Buddy brings the real Brad along anyway. Was thinking she may have lied about Sticky not touching her, or that she was raped by one of Rando's goons (as above).
 

The Finest Brew

Neo Member
Guess that's the best possible outcome. Wasn't sure what was going on there since
I chose to leave Rando and Brad behind, but Buddy brings the real Brad along anyway. Was thinking she may have lied about Sticky not touching her, or that she was raped by one of Rando's goons (as above).

Sticky is definitely another culprit for it. Either way, someone raped her, we just don't know for sure who did it. Brad is deeeeefinitely not one of those possible culprits, even as a Joy Mutant.
 
I'm pretty sure it's not Brad whose the father. There's a heavy implication that Buddy was actually raped by one of Rando's men while Rando was completely out of it from his wounds. Which would explain why he didn't want to associate with his (former) companions. It would also explain why Buddy's anger suddenly seemed to be off-the-rails randomly, I'd say. It definitely wasn't Buzzo or one of his men, or Marty (the other two characters people would likely point to due to their relationship with Lisa).
I'm really dumb and
took the game at its word when it said they tried to rough her up and that was that.
Whoops.
 

Red

Member
Painful has got to have one of the best endings I've seen in an RPG. That line Brad says,
"I've been dead for 35 years. Today is the day I live," knowing in moments he will die but determined to make the mob go through hell
is one of the best moments I've seen in years.

I just got the father achievement in Joyful. Maybe a little bit too dark. The after-credits scene, along with the achievement description, re-contextualizes Brad's behavior in a way that makes the whole thing very uncomfortable. Need a while to think about it.
 

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
Painful has got to have one of the best endings I've seen in an RPG. That line Brad says,
"I've been dead for 35 years. Today is the day I live," knowing in moments he will die but determined to make the mob go through hell
is one of the best moments I've seen in years.

I just got the father achievement in Joyful. Maybe a little bit too dark. The after-credits scene, along with the achievement description, re-contextualizes Brad's behavior in a way that makes the whole thing very uncomfortable. Need a while to think about it.

the
leave them
ending was pretty sweet, i was happy with it. it sounds like everyone found some measure of peace.
 
Finished The Joyful this morning, it's definitely not as good as The Painful. The attempts to add a broader story about joy didn't really work for me, I think leaving a lot of aspects of the story to the imagination worked better. Ultimately the series is most effective when telling the personal stories of the characters, and letting the game world simply exist as a setpiece for that.

Having said that, it was suitably gutting. Especially
fighting with Buddy's joy-induced vision of Brad going through the stages of his life and downfall
, that was fucking brutal. And
the fact that you really are forced to turn the last hope for humanity into a demented drug addict
, though it would probably have turned out better if
the super convenient vaccine
didn't exist.

It was still great, though. I need to go back and finish my joyless run of The Painful, then I'll probably play it again with a couple of different decisions.
 
Playing LISA: The Joyful. Just got to Big Lincoln. No Jerky, no Lucrative Tea. These last 15 minutes have been hell.
No pun intended.

EDIT: Wait, I remember the real reason I posted here. If you use Joy, does it change the ending in any way? Because I have 21 of those shitty blue pellets sitting in my inventory.
 

Yeah, I gave up waiting for a response. I used Joy, beat the game, and got both endings.

Anybody else feel really sorry for
Rando
? I mean,
it's clear he loved everybody, but nobody loved him. His army feared him, Brad never loved him, and Lisa ends up ignoring his suggestions for pacifism and kicks him to death
. That last part might not happen, I
held onto Rando
instead of
letting him fall to his death
, but my point still stands.

Sucks to see such a gentle soul get dumped on like that.
 

Ben Ghazi

Banned
Yeah, I gave up waiting for a response. I used Joy, beat the game, and got both endings.

Anybody else feel really sorry for
Rando
? I mean,
it's clear he loved everybody, but nobody loved him. His army feared him, Brad never loved him, and Lisa ends up ignoring his suggestions for pacifism and kicks him to death
. That last part might not happen, I
held onto Rando
instead of
letting him fall to his death
, but my point still stands.

Sucks to see such a gentle soul get dumped on like that.

We need a Rando prequel.
 
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