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[DamagedInc]

Well I wasn't stuck for long and have found a bunch more areas since beating Lost Sinner.

I discovered Belfry Luna which contained a covenant and then I immediately got destroyed by a gray invader. Then I found the path to Huntsman's Copse. In terms of atmosphere and story I loved this area. The green sky, the birds, the rickety bridge, and forest full of creepy enemies, its awesome. The cave with the laughing and the witches was legit scary too. And the whole background of the area with undead hunts and the hunters themselves turning undead, I got major Bloodborne vibes from the whole place. The boss was really cool concept--being overwhelmed with skeletons--and had a cool arena, but it was super easy. One shotted it. And as much as I like the area, its level design is kind of questionable. Two bonfires super close together, no shortcuts, a really arduous path to the Undead Purgatory, ehhh. Still liked the place a lot though.

Found Harvest Valley and Earthen peak too. The windmill in the distance makes for a cool setting but this place seems perhaps a bit too hard for me at the moment. So much poison too, ugh.

Lastly I bought a ring from the cat and discovered grave of saints and then just made it to the gutter, which seems like Blightown 2.0, where I'm at now.

Good stuff.

Seems like you're making good progress, you're taking a similar route to the one I took by the looks of it except I left the Undead Purgatory till later on and destroyed the boss in there which I kind of regretted as it was a great concept, I spent as little time in the gutter as possible, I managed to get everything in there I think but I blasted through it, i'm terrible when it comes to those kind of areas in souls games, I spend more time from falling than fighting!

 

[Guevara]

I feel like I always make the same builds. I started this new run as a STR/FAI but I think I'm going to turn it into a HEX build.

 

[Brandon F]

Beat the Pursuer finally (he has a really simple moveset but for some reason I would always slip up and it took a lot more tries than it should have. Also, really don't like how Estus is basically useless in a boss fight because it takes so long to use),

This is a good thing. Forces more consideration on the player to risk healing, which closes off the feeling of bosses turning into pure attrition duels with enough health reserves to outlast your opponent. Also, you can almost always find windows of opportunity for their use when being mindful of their patterns, reach, and taking advantage of your surroundings.

 

[Quikies83]

Any xboners interested in creating a new toon and doing some co-op (both ways) tonight? Central time.
I'm in the mood

 

[Lasthope106]

I feel like I'm the only person that couldn't get into Dark Souls 2 at all. I loved Dark Souls and Bloodborne. Bloodborne a little more because of the vast improvements over Dark Souls. I bought DS2:SotFS edition on Steam shortly after beating Bloodborne (I had finally beaten Dark Souls just a little before that.) Nothing felt right about it at all. The animations were stiff and robotic and all the weapons felt disconnected from the second you hit the buttons. I dunno, I think I got 1-3 hours in and I just had to put it down. Major disappointment.

I was in the same boat as you. My friend and I played through Bloodborne together. I had played DeS and DS1, and he hadn't. To him Bloodborne was his first "Souls" style game, so he wanted to play more games like it. Since he is mainly a PS4 gamer, we both got SOTFS for PS4 and started playing it right after Bloodborne.

This is my opinion so take it with a grain of salt. Right off the gate, the characters and movement in DS2 feel like shit compared to Bloodborne. I don't think that either DeS or DS1 felt like that, so I was put off by the sluggishness of it. My friend had similar complaints about the game. We both kept playing, but after a week or so my friend lost interest whereas I continued on. Once I started upgrading the stat Adaptability and Stamina, and Endurance things started getting better. It was a really shitty decision that FROM did where they make the movement feel like shit until you upgrade some Stats.

I'm now almost done with the game, and I personally find it better than Bloodborne. My character no longer feels sluggish like it did in the beginning, and I'm sure once I level up some more in NG+ it feel pretty darn close to the level of movement in Bloodborne.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Seems like you're making good progress, you're taking a similar route to the one I took by the looks of it except I left the Undead Purgatory till later on and destroyed the boss in there which I kind of regretted as it was a great concept, I spent as little time in the gutter as possible, I managed to get everything in there I think but I blasted through it, i'm terrible when it comes to those kind of areas in souls games, I spend more time from falling than fighting!

Yeah I still haven't actually gotten inside Undead Purgatory. It takes forever to get there and then the red phantom outside kills me and then I get to frustrated to try again haha. I'll go back there soon though.

This is a good thing. Forces more consideration on the player to risk healing, which closes off the feeling of bosses turning into pure attrition duels with enough health reserves to outlast your opponent. Also, you can almost always find windows of opportunity for their use when being mindful of their patterns, reach, and taking advantage of your surroundings.

Yeah, I've gotten a bit better at managing estus vs life gems and waiting for the right time to heal. It's not too much of an issue anyway since I'm finding a lot of the bosses to be pretty easy.

 

[NEO0MJ]

This is a good thing. Forces more consideration on the player to risk healing, which closes off the feeling of bosses turning into pure attrition duels with enough health reserves to outlast your opponent. Also, you can almost always find windows of opportunity for their use when being mindful of their patterns, reach, and taking advantage of your surroundings.

Yeah. Inever had to be afraid of healing in Bloodborne most of the time, unlike in dark Souls 2 where bosses often rush you if you decide to heal.

 

[DamagedInc]

Yeah I still haven't actually gotten inside Undead Purgatory. It takes forever to get there and then the red phantom outside kills me and then I get to frustrated to try again haha. I'll go back there soon though.

Yeah he kicked my ass a fair bit too, I don't really know why, maybe it was the small space but he was the only npc to give me any kind of trouble, good luck!

 

[Beelzebufo]

I keep trying this, and even though I'm enjoying it more each time the only thing I can think about is how I'd just rather play Dark Souls instead. I don't know if it's the actual visual design or just the fact that Dark Souls's visuals are much jankier, but there's just so much charm in the original that seems missing here. Maybe it's how disjointed the world is? I love just looking around the environments in Dark Souls thinking about how vast and ancient everything is, it feels real. I might beat it eventually just because I feel obligated to, but Dark Souls is so replayable anyway that I just want to do that. I don't play the multiplayer for what it's worth.

 

[Hikami]

So I tried to play the first Dark Souls again after beating this one and I can't lol..
So hard to adjust to stuff again.. like not being able to roll in all directions for example.

 

[Dr.Wampe]

I have to admit that i liked DSII:SotfS more than DS. Maybe its the 60fps and the clear visuals that are missing in Ds on X360, but i cant get back to it. Now i am tempted to buy Bloodborn, since everyone is praising it, hence the Topic title

 

[Bedameister]

Yeah I still haven't actually gotten inside Undead Purgatory. It takes forever to get there and then the red phantom outside kills me and then I get to frustrated to try again haha. I'll go back there soon though.



Yeah, I've gotten a bit better at managing estus vs life gems and waiting for the right time to heal. It's not too much of an issue anyway since I'm finding a lot of the bosses to be pretty easy.

Haha yeah that red phantom really is a pain in the ass. I also had major problems with him in my first run. I went back on the bridge and let him fall down.

Also the Adaptability Skill decreases the time you need to drink the estus. Makes it a lot faster. Also rolling works better with high Adaptability

 

[Manu]

So I tried to play the first Dark Souls again after beating this one and I can't lol..
So hard to adjust to stuff again.. like not being able to roll in all directions for example.

Same. You also have to play DS1 for longer before your custom build starts taking shape.

I tried a shieldless build a couple of weeks ago and it just feels unfair, while on DS2 it was challenging but fun.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Haha yeah that red phantom really is a pain in the ass. I also had major problems with him in my first run. I went back on the bridge and let him fall down.

Also the Adaptability Skill decreases the time you need to drink the estus. Makes it a lot faster. Also rolling works better with high Adaptability

Ooo luring him on the bridge is a good idea actually.

My ADP is at 26 now, and I think I have 100 agility. Worth raising higher or is it diminishing returns?

 

[DamagedInc]

Ooo luring him on the bridge is a good idea actually.

My ADP is at 26 now, and I think I have 100 agility. Worth raising higher or is it diminishing returns?

You should be alright at 100, that's what I left mine at, I think at 105/108 you get another boost but I never bothered with it.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Made more good progress, here's a quick update:

The Gutter: Really like this level, but I loved Blighttown. This one isn't as interesting, lengthy, or challenging, but I loved the design of it with lots of verticality at play. The torch aspect was brilliant actually, illuminating your path and seeing where you've been. The giant foggy ant was creepy but I didn't kill it because it didn't attack. I also haven't found a key for the giant locked door yet. Got a sweet armor set too (armor of aurous) that is quite good so I've upgraded it a few times.

Black Gulch: What the fuck? It looks really cool but allll of those poison statues that respawn every time is garbage, they take forever to destroy without getting poisoned. And then I got killed by a red phantom so I decided to get on out of there and leave it for another time.

Shaded Woods: it's about here that I realized that while the game started blisteringly difficult with gimped roll, hollowing health deficiency, and the ambush and mob laden forest of fallen Giants, it's actually become probably the easiest so far. All the bosses are easy so far, you can level up really quickly and get super good equipment, and the four ring slots let you give yourself insane health bonuses. I also have 9 Estus at +2. I mean I'm still having a blast, but it's just something I noticed. Only 20 hours in though so that could change. Anyway, this area is alright. I liked the creepy fog area with the ghosts (the ghosts are brilliant enemies since I just thought they were other players at first). I got a great helm too, that vengral wolf helmet from the disembodied head. The scorpion boss seems pretty easy but I got toxic and died, so I'll kill her next time.

 

[Bedameister]

Made more good progress, here's a quick update:

The Gutter: Really like this level, but I loved Blighttown. This one isn't as interesting, lengthy, or challenging, but I loved the design of it with lots of verticality at play. The torch aspect was brilliant actually, illuminating your path and seeing where you've been. The giant foggy ant was creepy but I didn't kill it because it didn't attack. I also haven't found a key for the giant locked door yet. Got a sweet armor set too (armor of aurous) that is quite good so I've upgraded it a few times.

Black Gulch: What the fuck? It looks really cool but allll of those poison statues that respawn every time is garbage, they take forever to destroy without getting poisoned. And then I got killed by a red phantom so I decided to get on out of there and leave it for another time.

Shaded Woods: it's about here that I realized that while the game started blisteringly difficult with gimped roll, hollowing health deficiency, and the ambush and mob laden forest of fallen Giants, it's actually become probably the easiest so far. All the bosses are easy so far, you can level up really quickly and get super good equipment, and the four ring slots let you give yourself insane health bonuses. I also have 9 Estus at +2. I mean I'm still having a blast, but it's just something I noticed. Only 20 hours in though so that could change. Anyway, this area is alright. I liked the creepy fog area with the ghosts (the ghosts are brilliant enemies since I just thought they were other players at first). I got a great helm too, that vengral wolf helmet from the disembodied head. The scorpion boss seems pretty easy but I got toxic and died, so I'll kill her next time.

Yeah the game gets pretty easy later on. I only had some minor problems at the beginning.

And yeah, Black Gulch sucks. But it's a very small area so don't worry.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Havent updated my progress in a while, but that's because I honestly got kind of tired with the game. A lot of the later levels really started to sour me on the truncated level design, dull boss fights, and really obnoxious encounter design. There were some cool moments in the back half of the game though, like some interesting gimmicks in the Undead Crypt, or how beautiful the Dragon Aerie is. But I stopped play right as I got access to the Giant's Memories (are those mandatory btw? Really don't like the time limit + tanky enemies) and just went back to Bloodborne. But now that I finished the Old Hunters, I want more Souls again so I thought it would be a good time to check out DS2's DLC.

I've just messed around and explored and died a bit in Shulva from the Sunken Crown DLC and...it's pretty fantastic so far. Like, "best area of DS2 by a lot" fantastic. The art design for the place is amazing, the level design is absolutely top notch with tons of paths, verticality, traps, narrow walkways. It's awesome, and I've only scratched the surface it seems. The dragon flying around adds an extra layer of grandeur and aprehension to the level as well, and I'm actually interested in learning the story behind this place after the main game really failed to keep me engaged in the backstory. Really excited to keep playing through this DLC, and hopefully the rest of it and the other two keep up the quality.

It's not all perfect though, encounter design so far is just as uninspired as the main game with over reliance on mobs and spams of ranged archers/casters with close range enemies and status effect stuff like poison and corrosion. I haven't come across anything really egregious yet, but at the same time I havent come across a great encounter either. It's still early going though. The enemies seem fine so far, but aren't really anything different from the main game and take the exact same tactics to beat as most of the armored human enemies.

Worse though, is how you access the DLC. Black Gulch is not only the worst area in any Souls game I've played, but it's one of the worst areas of any action game I've played. And this DLC requires you to spend a lot of time there figuring out how to get to the stupid secret path to get the stupid key from those stupid giants and then go back to Majula and jump down the stupid well and then go back to Black Gulch again to get to the portal. Just awful. At least now I never have to set foot in there again.

 

[WhiskerFrisker]

Havent updated my progress in a while, but that's because I honestly got kind of tired with the game. A lot of the later levels really started to sour me on the truncated level design, dull boss fights, and really obnoxious encounter design.

Basically the main complaints for Dark Souls 2. I really disliked that.

 

[Hikami]

Really excited to keep playing through this DLC, and hopefully the rest of it and the other two keep up the quality.

The DLC areas are the best parts of DS2. I thought Sunken King was weaker than the other two though, those are amazing.

 

[Celegus]

The DLC areas are the best parts of DS2. I thought Sunken King was weaker than the other two though, those are amazing.

I just did that one and loved it. So pumped to start the others! This PS4 version is so so good compared to the original.

 

[Vitten]

Worse though, is how you access the DLC. Black Gulch is not only the worst area in any Souls game I've played, but it's one of the worst areas of any action game I've played. And this DLC requires you to spend a lot of time there figuring out how to get to the stupid secret path to get the stupid key from those stupid giants and then go back to Majula and jump down the stupid well and then go back to Black Gulch again to get to the portal. Just awful. At least now I never have to set foot in there again.

I never spend more than 5 minutes in Black Gulch, you can pretty much just sprint through it and ignore everything. Also, it gets much better once you activate the somewhat hidden bonfire at the end of the level near the boss foggate: you can easily access all vital stuf from this bonfire.

 

[Neiteio]

Black Gulch is fine. It's short enough to offset the high concentration of traps and propensity for poison. Also has some neat secrets and secrets within secrets. And while I one-shot the boss (The Rotten), boy was his design cool. Great lore with the Nito connection and explanation for the idols, too.

And yeah, the Sunken King areas are just awesome. Among the best areas in the Souls/borne series. The pillar pathways of Shulva, the switch puzzles and (initially) invincible enemies of Dragon's Sanctum, the sheer verticality of Dragon's Rest... All top-notch.

Sinh the Slumbering Dragon is like Maleficent's transformation at the end of Sleeping Beauty. Seeing it rear up and spew ghoulish green hellfire... Instant classic.

 

[Lumpy Onion]

Shulva the Sanctum City is one of my favorite areas in a Souls game. You can practically feel the damp stonework and cool mists breezing though the place. There is also a real sense of awe when you first arrive and look down at how tall the structures are. Loved those puzzle bits where you had to shoot arrows and the other secret rooms you could discover. Almost felt like I was playing King's Field again.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Black gulch is so not fine. You basically have to sprint through it to make it not a study in masochism, which is the opposite of what a level should do and clearly doesn't feel designed like its meant to just be rushed through since even if you do you can still get easily grabbed by the oil creatures, caught on the giant snakes, or chased down by the invader, all while you're being poisoned. And the secrets aren't fun because you have to deal with all that shit while looking for them, and then when you find the major one it's basically like "yay you get to fight two really boring tank enemies that take forever to kill". Thank god it's a really small area, but just because you don't have to spend much time there doesn't offset that absolute horribleness of its design, it just expedites it.

Rotten was pretty eh. Really easy boss like almost any other in the game, but pretty cool design and I guess the pitfalls in the arena made it slightly more memorable.


Also I never found the second bonfire in the gulch to make things worse. Is it behind the petrified statue? Because if so f that I don't have any branches of yore in my inventory. I absolutely hate that those are tied to rare single use items.

 

[jb1234]

Yeah, Black Gulch was garbage. Not fun at all.

 

[Lumpy Onion]

Black Gulch with "force" Miracle is easy peasy. And the statues respawn only if you die. So you can just chip away at it them and heal at the bonfire until you are comfortable. Didn't know this til my second playthrough and hated the hell out of it my first time. Great place to farm titanite chunks from those puddle monsters though.

 

[Neiteio]

Black gulch is so not fine. You basically have to sprint through it to make it not a study in masochism, which is the opposite of what a level should do and clearly doesn't feel designed like its meant to just be rushed through since even if you do you can still get easily grabbed by the oil creatures, caught on the giant snakes, or chased down by the invader, all while you're being poisoned. And the secrets aren't fun because you have to deal with all that shit while looking for them, and then when you find the major one it's basically like "yay you get to fight two really boring tank enemies that take forever to kill". Thank god it's a really small area, but just because you don't have to spend much time there doesn't offset that absolute horribleness of its design, it just expedites it.

Rotten was pretty eh. Really easy boss like almost any other in the game, but pretty cool design and I guess the pitfalls in the arena made it slightly more memorable.


Also I never found the second bonfire in the gulch to make things worse. Is it behind the petrified statue? Because if so f that I don't have any branches of yore in my inventory. I absolutely hate that those are tied to rare single use items.

I don't find Black Gulch any more tedious than slowly creeping across the many rafters with swinging traps in Sen's Fortress. It's a short obstacle course you can approach in a number of ways, the safest of which is to stick to the wall and destroy the idols as you go, stopping to torch or kill the enemies, and then either confronting the boss or dropping down the cliff to deal with the giants. And if you do the latter, you'll quickly find there's a cave within the cave where the giants can't access you. In there you can safely heal and chip away at them without trouble. The exit is not much farther.

It's such a blip on the radar in the grand scheme of the game or even that part of the game that I'm surprised it registered on your radar in such a negative way. Not hating, though. You know I love ya, oh fanciest of clowns. :-3

Shulva the Sanctum City is one of my favorite areas in a Souls game. You can practically feel the damp stonework and cool mists breezing though the place. There is also a real sense of awe when you first arrive and look down at how tall the structures are. Loved those puzzle bits where you had to shoot arrows and the other secret rooms you could discover. Almost felt like I was playing King's Field again.

Yeah, Shulva is amazing. It really feels like each stone tower was sandwiched betwixt the rocks with slavish precision by some ancient and long-forgotten race. And I love how from the very onset, you can see the lake far below, the one with the wandering monsters that you reach after Dragon's Sanctum. Speaking of which, figuring out how to dispel the invulnerability of the ghosts in that place was one of the most satisfying revenge moments in gaming. So many switch puzzles and hidden passages before you finally find the source of their power.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Being able to heal at the bonfires to chip away at all the statues is just a minor patch on the big issue of the place. The issue is, running around smacking statues that are spitting poison on you isn't fun in the slightest, so making that task manageable still doesn't make it not terrible. And having them come back if you die is just a kick in the nuts, and makes it absolutely worthless to spend the time going around breaking all of them.

They were totally fine in the gutter since they were much sparser and more strategically, and interestingly placed. In gulch they just copy pasted them over every side and angle of the damn place.

 

[Neiteio]

Being able to heal at the bonfires to chip away at all the statues is just a minor patch on the big issue of the place. The issue is, running around smacking statues that are spitting poison on you isn't fun in the slightest, so making that task manageable still doesn't make it not terrible. And having them come back if you die is just a kick in the nuts, and makes it absolutely worthless to spend the time going around breaking all of them.

They were totally fine in the gutter since they were much sparser and more strategically, and interestingly placed. In gulch they just copy pasted them over every side and angle of the damn place.

Well, given the backstory of the Rotten and Shulva proper, it makes sense the densest concentration of them would be there. From a gameplay standpoint, it's entirely possible to roll and run past the bulk of them, as I've done many times when revisiting the area for its secrets. There's enough clearance in the tar pit area that you can fight the monsters there while the poison wears off.

 

[Fancy Clown]

I don't find Black Gulch any more tedious than slowly creeping across the many rafters with swinging traps in Sen's Fortress. It's a short obstacle course you can approach in a number of ways, the safest of which is to stick to the wall and destroy the idols as you go, stopping to torch or kill the enemies, and then either confronting the boss or dropping down the cliff to deal with the giants. And if you do the latter, you'll quickly find there's a cave within the cave where the giants can't access you. In there you can safely heal and chip away at them without trouble. The exit is not much farther.

It's such a blip on the radar in the grand scheme of the game or even that part of the game that I'm surprised it registered on your radar in such a negative way. Not hating, though. You know I love ya, oh fanciest of clowns. :-3
.

C'mon now, there's a big difference with the interestingly placed traps that come in short bursts and are solved by simple and careful movement, and calm study of the level, and a place that shoots poison at you from every angle while you deal with enemies and takes forever if you want to destroy the statues without getting poisoned. You just compared like one of the best Dark Souls areas ever to this trash D:

Like I said, even if it's a small part it still a part of the game, and the DLC made me spend more time there than I'd like. It's also emblematic of a lot of the problems I have with the game only magnified.

And I know, I love you 2 bb

Well, given the backstory of the Rotten and Shulva proper, it makes sense the densest concentration of them would be there. From a gameplay standpoint, it's entirely possible to roll and run past the bulk of them, as I've done many times when revisiting the area for its secrets. There's enough clearance in the tar pit area that you can fight the monsters there while the poison wears off.

Backstory be damned! Blah it being possible be damned too, I just want it to be fun. I like Nightmare Frontier and Blightown and they have poison out the ass.

 

[Neiteio]

C'mon now, there's a big difference with the interestingly placed traps that come in short bursts and are solved by simple and careful movement, and calm study of the level, and a place that shoots poison at you from every angle while you deal with enemies and takes forever if you want to destroy the statues without getting poisoned. You just compared like one of the best Dark Souls areas ever to this trash D:

Like I said, even if it's a small part it still a part of the game, and the DLC made me spend more time there than I'd like. It's also emblematic of a lot of the problems I have with the game only magnified.

And I know, I love you 2 bb

I can see where you're coming from, but I'm just being honest when I say I didn't find it nearly as problematic as you did. :-\

Also, I wasn't saying Black Gulch is like Sen's Fortress (although there are definitely areas in DS2 that match Sen's in complexity and quality). I was just saying certain challenges there were equally taxing to me, and equally brief at the end of the day.

 

[Lumpy Onion]

Yeah, Shulva is amazing. It really feels like each stone tower was sandwiched betwixt the rocks with slavish precision by some ancient and long-forgotten race. And I love how from the very onset, you can see the lake far below, the one with the wandering monsters that you reach after Dragon's Sanctum. Speaking of which, figuring out how to dispel the invulnerability of the ghosts in that place was one of the most satisfying revenge moments in gaming. So many switch puzzles and hidden passages before you finally find the source of their power.

Figuring out the ghosts was memorable for me too. I was so scared my first couple of visits that I would run around in a panic trying to avoid them when the solution was right there in front of me. That moment where I was calm and figured it out was indeed satisfying. I actually got killed by the ghostly men they added to Shaded Woods ruins area in Scholar release because I assumed they were of the same ilk. Nope, just ethereal looking but can be hit normally.

And speaking of the Black Gulch being bigger than it seems. I was shocked to find Lucatiel in that hidden cave on my fourth playthrough. Game is chocked full of things that can be totally missed if you aren't looking really carefully.

 

[sear]

I picked up Scholar of the First Sin recently on PC (Steam sale). I played Dark Souls 2 twice through previously, and had fun with it, even though I didn't like it quite as much as the first Dark Souls. "Higher highs, lower lows" is a good way of putting it - some great stuff but also some rather empty and boring areas, or those that were just a bit overly linear.

Since I never tried the DLC and wanted something to tide me over until Dark Souls 3, I figured this would hit the spot... boy was I right. About 30 hours in and I'm having a blast. My progress through the game has been faster than the first time through, but only 'cause I know all the areas. Even so, I am finding a lot of changes really interesting.

1. Encounter design is better overall. It's more brutal in terms of raw challenge, but also more thoughtful, and makes you consider your approach a lot. Never have I been so cautious and actually found that using the bow was near-essential even as a melee character.

The greater mix of enemy types makes areas much less predictable and overall more enjoyable to go through. Certain parts of areas border on gimmicky, in terms of the strategies they encourage you to use, which isn't necessarily a bad thing as it feels a bit like a combat puzzle at times.

Drangleic Castle is a real highlight for me now. It was a good area before and now they made it great, with all the stone enemies everywhere coming to life and sneaking up behind you, and other surprises here and there like the return of a certain boss.

2. Some of the progression has changed a lot. Putting the statues everywhere is a bit strange from a lore perspective (how are all these guys getting turned to stone?), but it's an interesting method of gating progression, making you balance off using your Fragrant Branches on secrets vs. forward progress.

The game seems to push you towards the Lost Bastille back entrance more than it did before, because the difficulty wall in No-man's Wharf and Heide's Tower feels a fair bit higher. In general, in the early game I found myself probing a lot more on where I could go and what I could get away with.

I also find that the item progression is much faster. The game gives you a lot more crafting resources and cool items earlier on to help make up for the higher difficulty. In fact, it might be a bit too much. You can get a +5 or +6 weapon pretty early on and use that to really ruin most enemies (you get the Large Ember in Lost Bastille now, I think, instead of Iron Keep). The flip-side is loot tends to be a lot more rewarding than I remember, though, so that's not necessarily a bad thing and I don't mind being overpowered for a bit if I put the effort in to find cool stuff.

3. Some areas feel like they have not changed for the better. Shaded Woods in particular is now really boring - removing the giant basilisk, and replacing almost all the enemies with ghosts (which you can see really easily outside of the fog) did not help at all, for example.

Others didn't get enough improvements either. Huntsman's Copse and Doors of Pharros barely changed, if at all, and the PvP-oriented areas feel borderline identical too. I would have liked to see more tweaks to make them a bit more interesting. They're still decent areas, I just expected more.

4. The extra summons everywhere are a bit much. I know they are optional, but they *really* trivialize bosses. As boss difficulty didn't go up much if at all (another missed opportunity), it's disappointing that you can make them a complete joke simply by bringing in a couple of NPC phantoms. On the other hand, it does give offline players a bit more of the "co-op experience".

Similarly, the extra NPC invaders are fun but kind of lack context. It feels like sometimes they just threw them in because they couldn't think of any cool enemies to put there, so replaced them with black phantoms instead.

5. The DLC areas I am just beginning to get into are really cool. The Sunken King stuff is well designed, atmospheric as hell, and returns to a lot of the great level design in Dark Souls 1 in terms of providing alternate routes and secrets to find. Apparently I have a lot more to look forward to.

All that said - it's like 90% of the way there towards being my ideal Souls game. It's still very good, and an improvement over Dark Souls 2, but I still wish they had done just a little more here and there to spice things up.

 

[spliced]

I like the Black Gulch. Lots of secrets and the tar creatures are pretty unique, I love how you can burn them. The fact that it's a smaller area and resting at the bonfire doesn't repair the statues is a big part of what makes it work.

 

[Fancy Clown]

I can see where you're coming from, but I'm just being honest when I say I didn't find it nearly as problematic as you did. :-

Also, I wasn't saying Black Gulch is like Sen's Fortress (although there are definitely areas in DS2 that match Sen's in complexity and quality). I was just saying certain challenges there were equally taxing to me, and equally brief at the end of the day.

Fair enough, I'm just no good at dealing what that level throws at me.

What levels did you think matched Sen's? There are plenty of areas I enjoyed, but I have to agree with people who say the average bar for level design is very dissapointing compared to Dark 1 and Bloodborne. I guess Lost Bastille came closest for me, and is a really sweet level with really intricate design and secrets but even that has some naff design like the central keep thing with like 1000000 soldiers that aggro you unless you use the perilous shortcut over the chasm.

Huntsman's Copse and No Man's Wharf were the two other big highlights of the game for me.

 

[Neiteio]

Fair enough, I'm just no good at dealing what that level throws at me.

What levels did you think matched Sen's? There are plenty of areas I enjoyed, but I have to agree with people who say the average bar for level design is very dissapointing compared to Dark 1 and Bloodborne. I guess Lost Bastille came closest for me, and is a really sweet level with really intricate design and secrets but even that has some naff design like the central keep thing with like 1000000 soldiers that aggro you unless you use the perilous shortcut over the chasm.

I can be quite poetic about the design and sense of discovery in Lost Bastille, No Man's Wharf and Undead Crypt, followed by Forest of Fallen Giants. If we were to take several levels as part of a larger experience, Drangleic Castle -> Undead Crypt -> Shrine of Amana is one of my favorite stretches in games. But the best areas are the entirety of Sunken King and Old Iron King, and most of Ivory King (although Frigid Outskirts was simply cruel and borderline maddening). Brume Tower, Shulva and Dragon's Sanctum being particular standouts.

 

[Fancy Clown]

I can be quite poetic about the design and sense of discovery in Lost Bastille, No Man's Wharf and Undead Crypt, followed by Forest of Fallen Giants. If we were to take several levels as part of a larger experience, Drangleic Castle -> Undead Crypt -> Shrine of Amana is one of my favorite stretches in games. But the best areas are the entirety of Sunken King and Old Iron King, and most of Ivory King (although Frigid Outskirts was simply cruel and borderline maddening). Brume Tower, Shulva and Dragon's Sanctum being particular standouts.

Undead a crypt had some clever gimmicks. Loved trying to avoid hitting the bells while breaking the stones. Absolutely hated Shrine of Amana for reasons I'm sure you can imagine. Forest of Fallen Giants is solid too, although I think it's too harsh an area to be the first one with the abundance of traps, mobs, explosives, armored enemies, etc. it's got a lot going on though, and is one of those big connected levels I adore.

Glad I've got the best stuff ahead of me with the DLC tho.

 

[Azzanadra]

Dark Souls 2 is a game that was only good because we were aboard the Souls hype train and let the power of suggestion overcome objective analysis and rationality. Heck, I actually thought DS2 was the best souls game until 2 months after release. I kept a small glimmer of hope with every re-release and piece of DLC, but ultimate, Dark Souls 2 is just a mediocre game.

Sure DS2 has quantity, but all that quantity has no quality. From stupid enemy placement to unoriginal bosses to uninspired areas, DS2 is an exercise in excess that demonstrates precisely why more =/= better. The only thing it has going for it is the PvP, which is admittedly better than Bloodborne and Dark Souls. I am more of a PvE guy though, and in that department DS2 was absolute crap.

In essence, sure Dark Souls 2 had variety and quantity, But that variety and quantity existed in a bad game, so whats the point really?

I actually liked DS2 upon release, but over time I found myself unable to play it, whereas I still play the first DS and DeS today. The areas not only felt disjointed from one another, but themselves were tedious to navigate through. With the other games, despite the difficulty, there was this sense of amazement and discovery with every area. I fondly recall the euphoric feelings experienced in amazing levels like Cainhurst, The Tower of Latria, Ash lake... you know the like. What levels does Dark Souls 2 have to match this level of atmosphere and wonder?

And don't even get me started on the bosses. First of all, half the bosses in DS2 were re-branded DS bosses. That Rat King was Sif, Scorpion Lady was Quelaag (see how I can't even remember their proper names?), those two throne defenders or whatever were failed attempts at recreating Ornstein and Smough, and so on. Of course there are slight differences, but there are many similarities in design and gameplay. With that aside, DS2 doesn't really have any bosses that stand out, you know? None made me sad and pulled at my heartstrings like Sif or Lady Astraea, none enveloped me with fear like Manus, Nito or The One Reborn, none made me lament the tragedy of characters/bosses like Gwyn and Gehrman, none made me awe at their sheer scale like The Storm King or Kalameet... you get the point. In Miyazaki's games, everything had a purpose and a point. Other than Sinh (the dragon in the first DLC), I don't think I can honestly note anything positive about any of the DS2 bosses.

 

[Neiteio]

Undead a crypt had some clever gimmicks. Loved trying to avoid hitting the bells while breaking the stones. Absolutely hated Shrine of Amana for reasons I'm sure you can imagine. Forest of Fallen Giants is solid too, although I think it's too harsh an area to be the first one with the abundance of traps, mobs, explosives, armored enemies, etc. it's got a lot going on though, and is one of those big connected levels I adore.

Glad I've got the best stuff ahead of me with the DLC tho.

Yeah, the other DLC areas are great... with the exception of Frigid Outskirts. I fully anticipate you'll hate that area. It is literally a sprawling tundra in the whiteout of a blizzard with only the sun and a handful of landmarks to guide you, and incredibly annoying enemies that come out of nowhere, and a grueling boss (but it's admittedly satisfying to beat).

 

[Conkerkid11]

Wow, this thing blew up into an OT of its own.

Personally starting a new character after I finish up my first playthrough of Dark Souls 1. I've basically beaten the series backwards, starting with Bloodborne, then Dark Souls 2, and now Dark Souls 1. I may or may not play Demon's Souls.

Thing is, Dark Souls 2 oddly enough, being the better PC port of the two, doesn't have cloud saves, so I have to start from scratch despite having a character on NG+ part way through the Ivory King DLC.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

It is literally a sprawling tundra in the whiteout of a blizzard with only the sun and a handful of landmarks to guide you, and incredibly annoying enemies that come out of nowhere).

So version 2 of the fog section of Shaded Woods.

Greeaaaaaaat

 

[Dahbomb]

Man did they make some areas darker than before. I was in the Wharf yesterday and couldn't see shit, had to use a torch. I didn't remember using it before on the original version.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Ended up beating the game since I don't think I'm high enough level for sunken crown and keep getting shat on in Dragon Sanctum (also only just figured out you can fuck with the towers in Shula by hitting the glow-y things LoL. Cool gimmick).

The Giant Lord fight was so anticlimactic lol There's so much build up, and he looks like a badass, but then it ends up being the easiest boss fight in the gameS Final boss was pretty shit as well and super easy, but throne watcher and defender were pretty decent. They had cool designs, although seemed a bit like O&S lite. Apparently there's another final boss for the Scholar edition but I didn't get to fight it so I must not have triggered the conditions. Final cutscene was pretty cool, although I feel like the story in this one was a little light & straightforward for the most part. Ended up beating it in about the same time as Bloodborne (37 hours) but I did all the optional stuff in BB whereas I'm sure there's plenty I missed in this. I really, really like how it doesn't kick you to new game plus automatically.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I really, really like how it doesn't kick you to new game plus automatically.

Yeah that's awesome. I hope DS3 takes many cues of all the quality of life improvements from DS2.