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[jetsetfluken]

WARNING: Unmarked spoilers.
Note that this isn't just another LTTP thread made before/during someone is playing a game. It's post-game talk.

I have to say, sitting back and playing a long Wii game has been very refreshing. I'm used to playing the HD consoles or PC games for the past few years almost exclusively, and to not have to have in the back of your mind things like worrying about achievements/trophies, having stupid people on your Friends List message you and taking you out of the game, constantly being connected online and "showcasing" what you're playing.
Just you and the game. That is all. Nothing to prove to anyone. Totally engrossed in the experience...forgetting every responsibility in real life and focusing on what's in front of you, with no underlying "friends list" messaging you and taking you out of it.
In the past I was one of the ones stressing to hope Wii U would have an achievement system and full online and such, but playing this game in true peace has made my decision on that change to "some things have features, some don't. Everything can't have every feature or it'll be too overwhelming and no variety of game experiences (on the OS level). There must be balance so to speak".

It took me 112 hours, but I believe I finally 100%'d the game, sans Hero Mode.
And I used no guide or help at all. Pretty good accomplishment to me seeing that I had to look up the help of a guide for well over 3-5 Heart Pieces in TP for example.

I have no idea how someone with a busy schedule would even complete this game (just the story, skipping sidequests/100% file goals) in say under a month, it's taken me pretty much the entire month of March, with only a few days breaks between. Pretty much about 25 of the 31 days of March I've been playing SS, and I devoted solid sittings to each one (around 7 hours minimum, 15 hours or more on long sittings). I did take my time, but I wasn't standing around for dozens of hours either. This just might be the longest 3D Zelda game...or perhaps I just took my time? I 100%'d Twilight Princess and I don't think it took this long. Not that I'm complaining - this game has been the true definition of a grand "adventure".

My file is right before the "warp" in the past to Demise in the "goddess realm". These are from what I understand the only things left for my 100% file, and things some of you might have missed too.

100% file? What you may have missed:

• Glittering Spores: In Faron Woods, slash a glittering mushroom, then you can take an empty bottle and swipe it next to the glittering mushrooms. I was always wondering what their importance was, but just figured it'd be explained later (like the missing eye bird statue in Skyloft). I once tried swiping the net next to them, but nothing happened. There is I believe one hint to this, perhaps from a Gossip Stone late in the game, but I was confused at it. Note: you can also get "Mushroom Spores" from swiping normal mushrooms then using an empty bottle next to it, but it's only 1 use instead of 5 for Glittering Spores and doesn't seem to have a sparkling effect, may not last as long either. http://www.zeldawiki.org/Glittering_Spores
  
• Max out the Bomb Bag/Seed Satchel/Quiver: I was wondering why the bazaar shop has an unlimited supply of these, and it's because you can have as many as you want, and what I didn't find out until now, is that you can upgrade them twice, the same way you can upgrade shields/items/etc.
  
• Get 43 cuts or more in Peater's "Clean Cut" minigame on Bamboo Island. From what I understand there's no unique item for doing this, but you more than likely get some unique dialogue and of course a new record set. I've practiced a lot of techniques here and only able to get in the mid-30s, perhaps I'll try another time, but not the biggest deal since it's not required technically for a "100% file".
  
• Find the secret "shop" in Skyloft: At night, if you go inside Waterfall Cave, there's butterflies. Play the harp and a special Gossip Stone that sells the rarest tier of treasures appears.
  
• Get under par time on all Silent Realms in the Thunder Dragon's Lightning Round. There is no prize for these other than a Goddess Plume (your first time doing it at least). After many tries and doing Lanayru Desert under 4min15sec, I discovered there's no unique prizes there. Arguably by some harder than the 8-straight "boss rush" for the Hylian Shield.
  
• Last Dowsing target I'm missing one Dowsing target (NOT including the top event-specific one), it's the one on the straight left. You have to talk to people to get them to show up, and I can't figure out which one this is or who to talk to.
  edit: Actually I'm not missing any, the straight left one is a sidequest slot, and the top one is a main quest slot ( http://www.zeldawiki.org/File:Dowsing_All_targets_aquired.png )
  
• Make sure all Shiekah Stone entries say "Clear!" The only thing I was missing was to draw all the designs on the Goddess Walls, was just missing the circle (for bombs) one. You obviously can't make the Demise battle hint one say "Clear!" though since you can't save once you enter that battle.
  
• Hero Mode. The normal game took me long enough to 100%, I have no intention of playing all over again just due to enemies doing a little more damage. I could handle it, but do I want to right now? Not now.
  I've read in the guide (I bought the guide and never looked at it til AFTER I beat the game...hey, guilty pleasure of the old days of just skimming through guides and seeing pretty pictures on the toilet for example) that there are "new dialogues" in Hero Mode, among other "secrets". What are these differences?

Beyond those little tidbits I believe I have a 100% file and everything done. Anything else you think I forgot, please say so.

Right now I'm listening to the 25th Anniversary orchestral CD that came with the Gold Remote bundle copies and I believe all relatively first-run copies, although I've read new copies are still sold with the CD (and shiny gold foil cover in NA at least). One thing I'd like to point out is that all of the music here is only from 3D Zelda games. While some of the best, some of the best were also present in 2D games like Link's Awakening or Link to the Past. Although there's some LTTP song sequences thrown in. Hopefully next game, we see a return of the LoZ/LTTP/LA style Link design (perhaps even in 3D) - besides "Celda" look, all the 3D Zeldas have been variations of the look established in OOT. Hopefully the selections of the 8 tracks to be on this CD (only 3D game tracks) aren't representative of what Nintendo thinks of the 2D games in terms of their importance in future games.


Story and timeline implications:
I have to say, before playing this, I was thinking it'd be more like a "Twlight Princess 2" and offer the same type of overall game and storyline as WW and TP have. But I was wrong - not only is this game arguably much longer in length and better overall than WW and TP in my opinion, but SS does incredibly important things to the timeline and overall story of the franchise, since probably OOT. This game does some very, very important stuff.

I feel that the experience and the story (and what it does to the series timeline as a whole) was too important for me to not make this thread. That sequence after Link re-emerged into the "real world" after the battle with Demise, as Fi was saying goodbye and that she'd meet Link again in "another life", I almost shed a tear - not because of the sadness of it, but the implications that things like this mean for the timeline - that is THE first time the true Master Sword was set in stone, and the thought that her spirit lives on as future Links wield it in games like LTTP and OOT, games that we have grown with; future Links who are very much the same "spirit" as this (supposedly) first Link, it took a weight off there. I always disliked the "different Link" approach to the timeline, but when you know it is the very same "spirit" deep down, you feel like you really are playing the same character each time. This scene really re-established that greatly. Also, just wanted to add Ghirihim is a nice nod to the "big bad guy" right hand master magician very much like LTTP's Agahim (sp?) is.

From what I understand, Nintendo has gone and set Skyward Sword as the very first in the series. There's been some very important and shocking tidbits about the timeline and story revealed in SS, and many things are being established here but not necessarily said.

One of the main questions that have been lingering in my mind...the "world" of SS.
So, we see in Twilight Princess, it the Faron, Eldin, Lanayru province names were still in motion, although at that point the world was renamed "Hyrule" (there are no mentions of it in SS). I notice that the "surface world" map of SS is very much in-tune with OOT: Lanayru is around the same area as Gerudo Desert, Faron near Kokiri, Eldin near Death Mountain. I don't think it's coincidence obviously. But I see that the Master Sword is set in stone in the Sealed Temple, which is in Faron (Kokiri Forest), southeast of the map. You have OOT, where the Master Sword is set in stone in the Temple of Time near the north/center of the map. In Link to the Past the Master Sword is in a forest, but that's in the northwest. Perhaps Faron=Kokiri=LTTP's Lost Woods, despite it's location on LTTP's map? The "Temple of Time" in SS is located in the Lanayru Desert. Perhaps over time, that portion of Lanayru becomes normal ground and Hyrule Castle/Market Town (as seen in OOT) is built around that area? If this is true, then what game explains how the Master Sword being set in the woods area transitions over there?

Some other lingering tidbits, such as Gondo (Scrap Shop) and his mother having dark skin and his grandfather's robot (Scrapper) indicate their origin are from Lanayru and keys you in on how long ago exactly the goddess sent the land of people up to the sky.

Also a mystery of Lanayru: when you hit a Timestone and are in the ancient times, there's multiple questions I have...how much into the past is it compared to the past you enter via the Time Gate, the "advanced" Bokobins that are in the past - could this be a reference that humanity (and erm, monsters here too) was at once time very advanced, but due to unnamed events, reverted to more primitive ways? Could this be a hint that the Legend of Zelda timeline takes place AFTER our modern times?

Strange similarities

• 
  I noticed some strange similarities between elements in this game and other games in the series. Some may be just me, but some may be intentional. If you guys know anything, please say so.
• Old Impa's "robe" shape bears a resemblence to Zant's helmet in Twilight Princess
• The LD-301 robots in Lanayru Province - their helmets bear resemblence to Midna's in Twilight Princess
• The Sailcloth - is this the same cloth that is eventually used as a sail on the boat in Wind Waker? The design is slightly different (more swirled in WW), but that may just be this game's art style "take" on it.

What could have been

• Dark World - Before going to the otherworldly realm to fight Demise, you are put to sleep in the crystal (like Zelda was) for whatever reason for about 10 years while in the ancient world, and re-awaken in a dark world enslaved by Demise. The entire skyloft and surface world are different, tweaked versions (like LTTP's Dark World variant). You would go on to collect (ideally) three key items/three dungeons to "unlock" the pathway to the realm Demise resides in. There would be one last final dungeon. On top of that, perhaps another phase or two in the Demise battle, because I thought it was a little short and anti-climatic.
  I really enjoyed the part of the game when Faron Woods was entirely flooded, jut think of drastic changes like that to all the other areas in a "Dark World".
  This would have added another perhaps 30%-40% on to the length of the game, not that it's short by any means, just saying that making these Dark World tweaks on top of existing assets wouldn't have taken up too much more space thus allowed a longer game at the same time conserving disc space.
  
  
• More sidequests/events - Since I was going for a 100% file, after every "key event" (post-dungeon) I talked to every person in Skyloft, both day and night, as well as on Pumpkin Landing, Beedle day/night, etc. I found that a lot of the time, there were no new events, and if so, only one every dungeon or two. I feel there was a lot of potential that was missed with many characters giving you sidequests - you could have done a fetch quest for Piper gathering rare ingredients, quests for the man eating at the bazaar/Lumpy Pumpkin at night, etc. I actually enjoyed the early sidequest where you had to deliver the Hot Pumpkin Soup to the knight instructor in time - things like that made the sky realm feel much more connected and aware of eachother.
  This also ties into the next "could have been":
  
  
• More islands in the sky instead of tons useless boulders - When I first got the ability to ride the Skyloft and explore the "sky world map", I was in awe. There were dozens and dozens of seemingly new, explorable islands just in my view - what lied in the horizons I could only assume were dozens and dozens more. But upon closer inspection they were just useless suspended boulders to I guess make it look like more of a world with things in it. Alright, I figured later on maybe new islands would "appear". As I progressed through the game, I was wrong (besides the 2 "big" islands inside the Thunderhead). I was very disappointed, because I was looking forward to this being the "sky" take on Wind Waker's ocean. The ocean in WW felt very huge, and there was of course way more explorable islands. In essence, besides Skyloft, which isn't necessarily huge in itself, you are left with only a handful of "real" islands, almost all of which are small and only 2-3 only contain one-room "houses".
  Having a sky world the same size as it is but just with 10-20 more "real" islands with people on them (it'd also help for them to be a little bigger than little circle sized islands with a tiny one-room house) and things to do would have easily added on to the replay value of the game by many hours.

Well, that's all off the top of my head right now. I just couldn't complete the game and shelve it, I had to get some things off my chest.
I read sometimes on GAF people claiming that they were disappointed and I have no idea how. This game not only does shockingly important things to the timeline/franchise, but as a product in itself, I feel it's superior to WW/TP were. Not OOT/LA/MM/LTTP territory, but definitely a very high ranking and important title in the series to me.
Anyway, off to spend a day reading Zelda wikis then.

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

good read, agree wholeheartedly. Bring helmet and kevlar, OP

 

[St0ne]

The only Zelda I've never finished.

Biggest disappointment of last year

 

[Risgroo]

Fantastic game, I really don't understand the hate it gets here. I'm planning to start another file soon, as I didn't do all the side quests or collectables. Still, 112 hours is insane, my first plathrough was about 35 hours, haha.

 

[SecretMoblin]

I had plenty of issues with it (including the controls), but when the dust settles I think it will be seen as yet another great addition to the franchise.

The dungeon design is simply brilliant, there's no getting around it.

 

[sphinx]

regarding the story line and its implications, this is how I see it.

.- OoT is the pillar of the Zelda Lore. Anything that matters storywise is related to it.
.- WW with the Flood marks the 2nd most important event in Zelda lore.
.- SS and individuals coming from the sky to colonize, settle down and found Hyrule is the the third most important event.

MM, TP are side stories so they pretty much don't bring anything to the table.

my 2 cents.

 

[Wiseblade]

The only Zelda game I've ever finished. Even though it was second to Xenoblade last year for me, I didn't expect to enjoy it as much as I did.

Dark World - Before going to the otherworldly realm to fight Demise, you are put to sleep in the crystal (like Zelda was) for whatever reason for about 10 years while in the ancient world, and re-awaken in a dark world enslaved by Demise. The entire skyloft and surface world are different, tweaked versions (like LTTP's Dark World variant). You would go on to collect (ideally) three key items/three dungeons to "unlock" the pathway to the realm Demise resides in. There would be one last final dungeon. On top of that, perhaps another phase or two in the Demise battle, because I thought it was a little short and anti-climatic.
This would have added another perhaps 30%-40% on to the length of the game, not that it's short by any means, just saying that making these Dark World tweaks on top of existing assets wouldn't have taken up too much more space thus allowed a longer game at the same time conserving disc space.

While I would have liked the game to have one more dungeon, this sounds like a ton of filler.

The only Zelda I've never finished.

Biggest disappointment of last year

My... evil twin?

 

[St0ne]

My... evil twin?

Nah, I'm one of the good guys.

 

[Wiseblade]

Nah, I'm one of the good guys.

That's exactly what an evil twin would say!

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

The only Zelda I've never finished.

Biggest disappointment of last year

Same here. Those controls. Those bloody controls...

 

[vanty]

Fantastic game, I really don't understand the hate it gets here. I'm planning to start another file soon, as I didn't do all the side quests or collectables. Still, 112 hours is insane, my first plathrough was about 35 hours, haha.

Yeah I'm almost finished with the game (just have to get the last part of the dragon's song) and I've really enjoyed the whole thing. Only real complaint is the shitty overworld with only one town and barely anything to explore. I expected something like WW's oceans and islands in the sky, but it was just ugly yellow clouds with almost nothing to do. Oh and also with the controls they've all been great except for swimming.

112 hours truly is insane as well, I'm around 40 hours having done everything I can, just have the fortune teller and plant-finding sidequests to do and then the last dragon song and whatever dungeon/boss(es) appear after that.

 

[Anony]

i think i beat it in around 50 hours
i play it over 2.5 months
i played half the game and took a break for a couple of week, then finished the rest
probably 1-2-3 hours game session per day

had good pacing. I could finish a dungeon in 1/2 days. then spend 1/2 days exploring, completing objectives for next dungeon, and side quests

didnt do that many side quests though, most of it were boring fetching quests, waste of time (not enough reward i guess)

 

[HeySeuss]

It's still a little early for this thread. The GAF cycle on games is:

1-3 months after release=game is best ever, you're a troll I'd you disagree.

3-9 months after release=game is overrated crap and fanboys were just buying into the hype.

9+ months after release=game was a true classic and a masterpiece. In the top 2 or 3 all time in the series.


Personally I loved it, but wished the land areas were connected and that there were more sky islands to explore. Also, I was dissapointed that I was never able to fly at night.

 

[Red]

Same here. Those controls. Those bloody controls...

I know!


How could they be so damn good? I'm still impressed.

 

[SteveWinwood]

I know!


How could they be so damn good? I'm still impressed.

Pretty much. If they weren't working for you it's either a. Your controller is broken (not likely) or b. You're flailing around like a buffoon (what category I instantly put you in if you complain about ss's controls).

 

[MYE]

Same here. Those controls. Those bloody controls...

Pretty good huh?

 

[Criminal Upper]

Great OP, never understood the seething hatred some gaffers have for this game.

 

[Rehynn]

regarding the story line and its implications, this is how I see it.

.- OoT is the pillar of the Zelda Lore. Anything that matters storywise is related to it.
.- WW with the Flood marks the 2nd most important event in Zelda lore.
.- SS and individuals coming from the sky to colonize, settle down and found Hyrule is the the third most important event.

MM, TP are side stories so they pretty much don't bring anything to the table.

my 2 cents.

Couldn't have said it better myself. This is one of the reasons why I doubt the series will ever escape the shadow of OoT. I don't mean that as a complaint, I wouldn't mind playing Zelda games that reference OoT for the rest of my life, but I'd love to see a new game that is related to WW the way SS is related to OoT.

 

[dave_d]

Pretty much. If they weren't working for you it's either a. Your controller is broken (not likely) or b. You're flailing around like a buffoon (what category I instantly put you in if you complain about ss's controls).

You forgot C:The controller is out of sync, AGAIN, so even if you point the controller straight up for 20 seconds and dodge the game doesn't figure out to point it up in the game.

 

[Chuckpebble]

Find the secret "shop" in Skyloft: At night, if you go inside Waterfall Cave, there's butterflies. Play the harp and a special Gossip Stone that sells the rarest tier of treasures appears.

I was going to go through on hero mode, but the secret shop pissed me off. I made a duplicate file before the point of no return at the end of the game so I could test Hero Mode out after seeing a bunch of people complain about it. See, it turns out you can carry over your loot but not your rupees. So I figured I'd go back to my old file, buy a bunch of the rarer loot and effectively carry over half my rupees by selling them for half price in Hero Mode. Yeah, then you get to this effer, the midnight time waster, who only sells you one item at a time, requiring you to leave and reenter the cave to purchase every-single-item. If someone can tell me a way to say, yeah dude, I'll take 100 Goddess Plumes, I'll start playing again.

Last Dowsing target: I'm missing one Dowsing target (NOT including the top event-specific one), it's the one on the straight left. You have to talk to people to get them to show up, and I can't figure out which one this is or who to talk to.

I think the one you're missing is recovery hearts. I was way off my game one night and Fi basically told me that I suck and made it easier for me to find recovery hearts. I may be wrong though.

 

[jetsetfluken]

The only Zelda I've never finished.

Biggest disappointment of last year

Well maybe that's something to do with it? If you have absolutely no history with the series or attachment to the timeline, then yeah, I can see it coming off as forgettable. But to people who have paid close attention to detail in each game, the timeline links here are absolutely huge and are part of the overall experience being so great.

Fantastic game, I really don't understand the hate it gets here. I'm planning to start another file soon, as I didn't do all the side quests or collectables. Still, 112 hours is insane, my first plathrough was about 35 hours, haha.

Like I said, I didn't dawdle around for dozens of dozens of hours, but I would take the occasional "pit stop" on Pumpkin Landing for example and just sit there listening to the peaceful music (the on-foot sky world map music is very fitting to the setting) and just gazing in the distance. But I do think those breaks were brief, I was always heading somwhere or doing something, a lot of the time was taken in making sure every nook and cranny were explored. So yeah, I can see it being 30-40 hours or so if you just rush to the story events/through the dungeons.
Again I used no guide or outside help at all, so I wasn't just looking at a guide and saying "OK, go here next", I had to look around and talk to everyone for example until something new came up.

The dungeon design is simply brilliant, there's no getting around it.

Oh, the dungeons. A few of the dungeons here are by far the best in 3D Zelda history, most notably Ancient Cistern. The whole thing is a clever metaphor for Buddhist legends/myth, complete with an underworld, journey to nirvana (after you kill the Indian-god inspired 6 armed boss), a Christian reference with the order of the door, etc.
Besides those clever things the whole dungeon was geniusly put together, I have no idea how they put all of that together with the puzzles and everything segueing together.
Another mention goes to the whole Lanayru Desert "part 2", where you go to the sandsea and it transforms before your eyes and back again thousands of years as you progress it in the ship, and then the whole ancient pirate ship and time transitioning and puzzles there and then the climax boss fight "kraken", very good. Other dungeons were very good and some very masterfully designed too, but those stand out as the top 2 of the game in my opinion and very high in the series.

 

[sphagnum]

You forgot C:The controller is out of sync, AGAIN, so even if you point the controller straight up for 20 seconds and dodge the game doesn't figure out to point it up in the game.

I have never once had the controller go out of sync.

 

[Chuckpebble]

You forgot C:The controller is out of sync, AGAIN, so even if you point the controller straight up for 20 seconds and dodge the game doesn't figure out to point it up in the game.

Yeah, I can't stand antagonistic responses to these issues either. I did have some tricky moments getting the skyward strike started.

Its hard to talk about because there's a ton of complexity behind how these controls work. The pointing was new for me and I hated it at first, now I can equate it to going from a stylus to a mouse, and pressing down on the d-pad is like picking the mouse up and re-centering it on the mouse pad. I don't think that's what you're talking about.

I think you're actually talking about a full recal, like at the beginning of the game, I think you can initiate it from a menu. Its because your controller lost track of up. I never thought the process made much sense. Why do I have to place the controller face down? I don't use the condom, so the buttons on the face tend to make the thing tilt slightly to a side. Is that causing issues? Also, the nearest flat surface is a large ottoman in front of me, it has a depression from where I rest my feet. I'm almost certain that caused me problems too.

I don't know your exact situation, but mine was less than ideal, and I never did a full recal mid game. That'd have really sucked.

 

[Red]

I've been playing gamepad-based video games my whole life, and I've never picked up on controls as intuitively as I did with Skyward Sword. The one and only thing that took me a bit to adjust to was the skydiving, and that only comes into play once or twice during the entire game.

I boot it up every once in a while just to play it. I don't need to accomplish anything. It just feels good to do.

 

[jetsetfluken]

.- SS and individuals coming from the sky to colonize, settle down and found Hyrule is the the third most important event.

Yes, good catch. That's one of the "unsaid" events that take place in SS, after the ending. I can see a lot of people not catching on to that.
Eventually the names Eldin, Faron and Lanayru are replaced with Death Mountain, Kokiri Forest/Lost Woods, Gerudo Desert, etc. But then how do they explain "Deku Hornets" and "Gerudo Dragonflies" identified in SS...I'd like a developer chiming in on these small tidbits, but they seem to like to keep people guessing. Perhaps those are the human names for the areas (Gerudo Desert for example) and they never knew the name Lanayru, so when they settled on the surface it was naturally named Gerudo Desert.

While I would have liked the game to have one more dungeon, this sounds like a ton of filler.

Well, maybe the way I worded it makes a Dark World sound like "the same thing, same assets, etc replaced with a different sky color". Think of it as the same kind of normal world-Dark World comparison in Link to the Past. Skyloft could be totally vacant and a new desolate world map area for example, of course with things to do in it, humanity is scarce and they hide out in caves a-la LoZ. It'd open tons of new events and the 4 additional dungeons (3 Dark World, 1 final dungeon) would add a good 40%+ of the game length.

 

[IrrelevantNotch]

Same here. Those controls. Those bloody controls...

Its no so bad if you just take into consideration all the possible limitations of the Wii's control setup, despite the game insisting that you do otherwise.

Of course, if you don't want to put more effort into learning a control scheme that not only takes longer to learn than most, but is also one that you'll never be able to apply to any other game on the market, well... I can't help you there.

 

[Metroid]

I loved the last temple. So much fun

Spoiler

swapping the tiles

.

Also I don't get the complaints the controls get. They worked perfectly well if you at least tried to do the according motion. Ah, and do not waggle.

 

[dave_d]

Yeah, I can't stand antagonistic responses to these issues either. I did have some tricky moments getting the skyward strike started.

Its hard to talk about because there's a ton of complexity behind how these controls work. The pointing was new for me and I hated it at first, now I can equate it to going from a stylus to a mouse, and pressing down on the d-pad is like picking the mouse up and re-centering it on the mouse pad. I don't think that's what you're talking about.

I think you're actually talking about a full recal, like at the beginning of the game, I think you can initiate it from a menu. Its because your controller lost track of up. I never thought the process made much sense. Why do I have to place the controller face down? I don't use the condom, so the buttons on the face tend to make the thing tilt slightly to a side. Is that causing issues? Also, the nearest flat surface is a large ottoman in front of my, it has a depression from where I rest my feet. I'm almost certain that caused me problems too.

I don't know your exact situation, but mine was less than ideal, and I never did a full recal mid game. That'd have really sucked.

I'd do my full sync at the beginning by placing it on desk near my TV.(So that's a flat surface.) Anyway I had quite a few sync issues besides the skyward strike charge through out the game. I noticed it the most with the beetle since I used that item a lot. (Pretty much every one of those venus flytrap like plants I'd break out the beetle so I could take them out at my leisure and oh no it's out of sync so push down again.) Actually I wish they just made one of the direction controls to always be recenter.(I can't remember, down sometimes called out Fi but did left and right do anything? I don't think I ever used them if they did.)

 

[Red]

I think it's also important to state just how damn good the game looks. One of the year's best for sure, and on such dated hardware.

Spoiler

And Dolphin helps, of course.

 

[Anteo]

I think the biggest problem people had with the controls is that they triggered a slash when changin positions, and then blamed the WiiRemote.
But to me it's clear that after certain max speed, a slash will be activated. As long as you move your hand below that speed, link won't attack. For the next Zelda game, if they keep the motion controls (oh god I hope they do) they should ad that if you are holding "A" you won't attack, BUT will lose some stamina instead.

 

[IrrelevantNotch]

I think the biggest problem people had with the controls is that they triggered a slash when changin positions, and then blamed the WiiRemote.
But to me it's clear that after certain max speed, a slash will be activated. As long as you move your hand below that speed, link won't attack. For the next Zelda game, if they keep the motion controls (oh god I hope they do) they should ad that if you are holding "A" you won't attack, BUT will lose some stamina instead.

Lose stamina for not attacking. So awful it'll probably be a staple of the next Zelda game.

 

[Red]

I think the biggest problem people had with the controls is that they triggered a slash when changin positions, and then blamed the WiiRemote.
But to me it's clear that after certain max speed, a slash will be activated. As long as you move your hand below that speed, link won't attack. For the next Zelda game, if they keep the motion controls (oh god I hope they do) they should ad that if you are holding "A" you won't attack, BUT will lose some stamina instead.

I'd love for the controls to stay in place, as long as I am allowed to move while slashing.

 

[sphagnum]

I think the biggest problem people had with the controls is that they triggered a slash when changin positions, and then blamed the WiiRemote.
But to me it's clear that after certain max speed, a slash will be activated. As long as you move your hand below that speed, link won't attack. For the next Zelda game, if they keep the motion controls (oh god I hope they do) they should ad that if you are holding "A" you won't attack, BUT will lose some stamina instead.

I wouldn't expect SS style motion controls to stay for Zelda Wii U, since I doubt they'd want to do a major game that doesn't use the tablet as its controller.

 

[Anteo]

Lose stamina for not attacking. So awful it'll probably be a staple of the next Zelda game.

That's just a quick fix for those who have problems. Stamina thing is to show the player he is going too fast, and he would trigger an attack had he not been holding "A". It could be an insignificant amount of stamina that would recover immediately.

 

[Davey Cakes]

Moving while slashing will become like Resident Evil's "moving while shooting." Some people will continue to say it's unnecessary, but some with continue to complain. Hah.

I didn't mind not moving while slashing overall, but there were times where I missed it. In Twilight Princess, for some reason, I enjoyed running and slashing through grass.

Hopefully they work on it for the next game, since Zelda will definitely continue to have a motion control focus.

 

[Anteo]

I wouldn't expect SS style motion controls to stay for Zelda Wii U, since I doubt they'd want to do a major game that doesn't use the tablet as its controller.

Actually Aonuma said :"I honestly think we cannot go back to button controls now, so I think that these controls will be used in future Zelda titles, too."

Though this doesn't mean they won't drop motion controls.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/121/1214562p1.html

Moving while slashing will become like Resident Evil's "moving while shooting." Some people will continue to say it's unnecessary, but some with continue to complain. Hah.

I didn't mind not moving while slashing overall, but there were times where I missed it. In Twilight Princess, for some reason, I enjoyed running and slashing through grass.

Hopefully they work on it for the next game, since Zelda will definitely continue to have a motion control focus.

I wonder if it is really necesary. I do think that it would be a welcome adition, but, what exactly can we get from that? Some boss battles that need you to be moving and slashing?

 

[IrrelevantNotch]

That's just a quick fix for those who have problems. Stamina thing is to show the player he is going too fast, and he would trigger an attack had he not been holding "A". It could be an insignificant amount of stamina that would recover immediately.

Alternate solution: ditch motion controls until they are sophisticated enough to know what the player is doing regardless.

 

[dave_d]

Alternate solution: ditch motion controls until they are sophisticated enough to know what the player is doing regardless.

I know someone else on this board pointed this out. They could have done the entire control scheme on a right control stick like the Xbox or PS3 has. (Pushing the stick in would be a stab, moving around the perimeter would adjust, moving through the center would be a slash.)

 

[jetsetfluken]

Same here. Those controls. Those bloody controls...

I have no idea what people are talking about with the controls. They were great to me. In fact, when I first got the sword, I was having so much fun slashing in different directions and doing spin slashes I was laughing, having such a good time. The novelty of the spin slashing never got old though (I do it by doing two outward-side motions with my arms...unleash the RAGE. HAAAAAAH!)
...

It's surprising because I'm not new to motion controls. I've played Wii many a times before as well as PS Move, but nothing was as fun as the SS sword controls.

I was going to go through on hero mode, but the secret shop pissed me off. I made a duplicate file before the point of no return at the end of the game so I could test Hero Mode out after seeing a bunch of people complain about it. See, it turns out you can carry over your loot but not your rupees. So I figured I'd go back to my old file, buy a bunch of the rarer loot and effectively carry over half my rupees by selling them for half price in Hero Mode. Yeah, then you get to this effer, the midnight time waster, who only sells you one item at a time, requiring you to leave and reenter the cave to purchase every-single-item. If someone can tell me a way to say, yeah dude, I'll take 100 Goddess Plumes, I'll start playing again.

I almost got screwed by the "point of no return" Hero Mode option, but I made a copy of my save at the last save point. I have one slot with Hero Mode in case I ever want to do that in the far future...probably not if there's really no reward or anything. Anyone know exactly what new things happen/are said in Hero Mode?

Good strategy for the "transferring" Rupees to Hero Mode, I'm sure you'd need them to buy Guardian Potion+'s for some parts. But yeah, that sounds inconvenient he only takes one at a time. I have the Tycoon Wallet and never got above 6000 rupees at once, no idea what you would need with 9900 (the +900 upgrade plus the Tycoon Wallet).

There's decent spots for grinding rupees I found though. One I can remember is the "Temple of Time" savepoint. Warp down there, run over to the wall and break the pots/blow the debris etc, there's 20 rupees + one or two ants. Then run around to the other side and I believe there's 2 Sand Cicadas (sell for 50 each). Then equip the Beetle and fly it over to the little cliff with two bushes. The bushes hold 20 rupees and 5 rupees. Now go and enter the back entrance to the Mining Facilty dungeon, now exit and repeat. When you feel done, go to Skyloft and sell all the Sand Cicadas and Lanayru Ants you got. Not sure if there's better ways than that, I'm sure there are, but that's what I found in my time. Also a room in Fire Sanctuary can be continuously re-entered for about 40 rupees each time but that's probably really slow. Didn't stop me from re-entering it for about a half hour though. Little did I know I already had more than enough money.

I think the one you're missing is recovery hearts. I was way off my game one night and Fi basically told me that I suck and made it easier for me to find recovery hearts. I may be wrong though.

No, hearts dowsing is the straight-right option on the dowsing wheel. The one I'm missing is the straight-left circle.

 

[jetsetfluken]

Personally I loved it, but wished the land areas were connected and that there were more sky islands to explore. Also, I was dissapointed that I was never able to fly at night.

Yeah, exactly. The "needs more sky islands" thing definitely would have made the sky world more engrossing, and in a way the final game better.

The surface world areas being connected is definitely something I thought of too, just forgot to add it in the OP. Maybe they could have added some "overworld" style transitional areas between them, or maybe even just exits between each, instead of having to go to the sky and then find the other area you want to go to.

The flying at night thing also I thought would have actually happened. You'll notice if you fall off the edge of Skyloft at night, a knight comes and saves you/yells at you. I figured that around mid-way through the game (after the first 3 dungeons and before the next "set" would have been a good place), a story event would happen where Link becomes a "full" knight and is able to fly his Loftwing at night. This would have opened up the possibilities for many more sidequests/events too.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Three things I hated in this game:
1.Empty over world or to be more precise hub world
2.Town's Side Quests were disappointing only because they promised Majora's Mask like before the release, plus the town seemed lifeless
3. Phi's Handholding

Otherwise this game is a masterpiece in story, gameplay, main characters and pretty every thing else.

 

[Anteo]

Alternate solution: ditch motion controls until they are sophisticated enough to know what the player is doing regardless.

Ditch motion controls until it can read your mind. Gotcha.
In the meantime they will transfer that to an stick and have the exactly same problem, move the stick too fast? Too bad you are slashing now!

I know someone else on this board pointed this out. They could have done the entire control scheme on a right control stick like the Xbox or PS3 has. (Pushing the stick in would be a stab, moving around the perimeter would adjust, moving through the center would be a slash.)

You'd still have the same problem!

 

[Kai Dracon]

Though I consider SS (overall) the best 3D Zelda game, I agree with the OP's could have beens in a couple ways:

1. While I'm not sure if the literal Dark World would have been the way to go, the point where the time gate opens up could have allowed for a back half of the game involving seeing the world during or directly in the aftermath of the demon wars. It's not just about game length but balancing the somewhat serene tone of the bulk of the game.

2. The Sky World was underused, absolutely. The problem of few major side quests in Skyloft would have been organically solved by having the Sky World be, well, an actual world full of islands and civilization. Each interconnected with side quest threads between characters resident to the areas.

But every 3D Zelda has had some significant flaw in one way or the other, despite nostalgic memories of OTT as "perfection". Skyward Sword's flaws drag it down the least for me when measured in the balance.

At most, while I like the idea of the overworld areas as dungeons unto themselves, I agree they could have allowed interconnections to open up as the game progressed... but given the visual complexity of the game, that honestly may have been a hardware limitation.

Ditch motion controls until it can read your mind. Gotcha.
In the meantime they will transfer that to an stick and have the exactly same problem, move the stick too fast? Too bad you are slashing now!

You'd still have the same problem!

Ironically the proposed sword control alternative is basically the Flick It system from Skate. And here's the gag: that system isn't as "easy" as pushing a button either or as reliable. It requires a lot of practice and skill to be able to use it well. That was a selling point of Skate, that it actually required skill to play well. I wonder how many would would however, call that system crap if applied to like an action game because they couldn't perform every type of sword slash instantly as soon as the move was introduced?

 

[IrrelevantNotch]

Ditch motion controls until it can read your mind. Gotcha.
In the meantime they will transfer that to an stick and have the exactly same problem, move the stick too fast? Too bad you are slashing now!

Have you ever played a 3D Zelda without motion controls? You could choose your slash direction in Ocarina of Time, and no it wouldn't slash if you moved to fast. :/

edit - and not that I wanna get into this argument, but I'm willing to bet the Kinect 2 will allow developers to make a sword slashing game without all the unwanted nonsense.

 

[Spieler Eins]

I wouldn't expect SS style motion controls to stay for Zelda Wii U, since I doubt they'd want to do a major game that doesn't use the tablet as its controller.

But they've shown that Wiimotes will still be used commonly. And once the WiiU Zelda comes out, I don't think any tablet showcase games are needed anymore.

 

[Red]

One of the undermentioned details that I loved is the animation that plays when Link enters a dungeon for the first time. Reminded me so much of the original NES Legend of Zelda, and Link's several footsteps down the stairs into each new level.

 

[King of the Potato People]

I have had a lot of negative parts to discuss about the repetitive structure and world-design and you know Fi.

But I did love the controls, weapon customisation, graphics, music, bosses, fairy-tale story and the side quests.

If only the whole game was as clever as Lanayru.

 

[jetsetfluken]

Three things I hated in this game:
1.Empty over world or to be more precise hub world
2.Town's Side Quests were disappointing only because they promised Majora's Mask like before the release, plus the town seemed lifeless
3. Phi's Handholding

Otherwise this game is a masterpiece in story, gameplay, main characters and pretty every thing else.

1. Yep
2. Yeah, the sidequests are both not enough in number and don't hold a candle to MM's sidequests. There you had ones that had multiple steps to it, you had to go back later on and do parts of them, etc. Here they're just "find out person's problem, be told where to go (in most cases), return to person, get Gratitude Crystals"
3. Yeah, I had to actually refrain from using her on some bosses. I don't think I would have enjoyed the Ancient Cistern boss for example as much if I listened to all the stuff she said before figuring the boss out. There are many puzzles that she really won't help you with though, for example in the Fire Sanctuary I was stuck in a room for maybe an hour trying everything, and what you had to use the Beetle carrying a bomb flower and blow up a very small rock formation on a wall statue's mouth. Call me stupid but another one I was sitting there stuck on for awhile was the very first temple with the first "dizzy eye" puzzle. I found them all out myself though and I think looking to a guide for things like that would have ruined a lot of the satisfaction.

 

[Anteo]

Have you ever played a 3D Zelda without motion controls/ You could choose your slash direction in Ocarina of Time, and no it wouldn't slash if you moved to fast. :/

Yeah I have. But I just like too much SS controls (and enemy reactions to the position of your sword) to give up on them.

 

[ASIS]

You forgot C:The controller is out of sync, AGAIN, so even if you point the controller straight up for 20 seconds and dodge the game doesn't figure out to point it up in the game.

Dodging isn't motion based if i remember correctly.