WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Maybe, but what a bad comparison.
- Talrand was playable.
- 3 CMC vs 4 CMC
- 1RU vs UU
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Magic: the Gathering - Oath o/t Gatewatch |OT| Look again, the mana is now diamonds!
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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Maybe, but what a bad comparison.
When Caw Blade was at its height?
I guess it saw some play in Delver like Consecrated Sphinx.
I always wanted a dragon with lightning bolt attached to it. Then they staple Surge on it. smh
Monastery Mentor was pushed. This? Hardly.
No in the Delver era.
I don't think that's fair. Yes, Mentor is pushed, and while this isn't as raw with power, blue/red is going to love it.
How many times do I see URX players cast multiple spells a turn. Serum Visions into Lightning Bolt. Snapcaster Mage into whatever. Kolghan's Command into Jace.
It's possibly going to be decent.
They have Young Pyromancer already. Storm has Electromancer.
This is legendary so it's not great in multiples.
But this is spell, with no restrictions. It's possible YP is just better, after all, it's not legendary. But they might work real well together, too. I'm just saying don't write this one off.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I think you think that "pushed" means "preorder now this shit is cray cray, also do kids still say cray cray, I don't think so." I'm saying it's a card with an eye toward modern. It doesn't have surge, so it's not directly tied specifically toward this block. As OnPoint pointed (heh) out, it supports natural plays that already exist in modern. I'm not saying it's definitely going to make a mark, but it's worth playing around with in UWR control.
divisionbyzorro
Member
At the very least it's a cube staple.
True. I can still see running Spatial if:
-you don't want to kill off your own mana dorks
-you're not splashing red
-3 toughness creatures are huge early problems like a one-activated Warden or Mantis Riders
-need to cast it 1 turn earlier
I would think Spatial will be mb and Return is sb.
My point is, a 2/3 body doesn't favourably interact with anything in modern, especially when it costs three mana and doesn't affect the board beyond the 2/3 body. For often less mana you can play Tasigur, which is a 4/5 with a repeatable draw ability. And for one mana less you get Dark Confidant and Snapcaster Mage. I'd be really surprised if it isn't a bin rare half a year after release.
charlequin
Banned
They don't actually do "divide x counters amongst any number of creatures" that often, in part because the templates are ugly. I'm okay with it.
SigmasonicX
Member
Did a big old update to the OP. It is pretty disappointing that what little they did with processors in BFZ appears to be all they plan on doing for now, but at least they seem to be pushing the power of the cards with colorless costs.
Posting others for completeness.
Random comments:
* Now that Mirrorpool has been officially spoiled, I wonder if it's a reference to My Little Pony, which had an episode with a thing called the Mirror Pool that could clone people, or if the shared name is just a coincidence.
* I like how Unknown Shores is usually a junk card but may actually be really good in this set. It's a classic example of the "Shatter is better than Terror in Mirrodin" phenomenon.
* Comparative Analysis seems like it could be really good. Hopefully they didn't print a blue 1-mana cantrip.
* The flavor text of Spatial Distortion is interesting. Could Planeswalkers actually be resistant to damage done by Eldrazi? By the way, if this effect looks familiar, it's a colorshifted version of the black Nameless Inversion... minus the tribal and creature type part.
* The two intro pack rare Eldrazi with colorless activated abilities seem alright.
* Tyrant of Valakut is disappointing, but Reckless Bushwhacker seems like it could be good, maybe even Constructed playable.
* Crumbling Vestige is a seriously neat design.
* Even in Two-Headed Giant, Gladehart Cavalry looks like junk.
* Walker of the Wastes is pretty neat. I wonder if other cards will care about Wastes.
* At first, I was disappointed by support, since I was thinking "isn't this the same as bolster", but I quickly realized that it wasn't, and I was surprised that this mechanic hadn't actually appeared appear. I was saying a few months ago that a "reverse bolster" might make for a good Phyrexian mechanic, but maybe a "reverse support" would be better. Inflict N - Put a -1/-1 counter on each of up to N target creatures.
* Endbringer is a pretty neat card. I'm not sure if it will be Constructed playable, but it's a definite Limited bomb.
* Jori En is a pretty good card. I was disappointed that she didn't get a card in BFZ, but I'm glad she did here.
* Stone Haven Outfitters is funny in how it seems like it's meant to combo with Skullclamp but doesn't actually. Plus, you know, Skullclamp is banned in Modern.
EDIT: As for the color pie of colorless, it seems like they're generally going for anything that carries a "distortion" flavor, which mainly seems to be a mix of black and blue effects. Endbringer entirely does stuff that artifacts have done in the past.
I think this is all the spoilers for today:
Posting others for completeness.
Random comments:
* Now that Mirrorpool has been officially spoiled, I wonder if it's a reference to My Little Pony, which had an episode with a thing called the Mirror Pool that could clone people, or if the shared name is just a coincidence.
* I like how Unknown Shores is usually a junk card but may actually be really good in this set. It's a classic example of the "Shatter is better than Terror in Mirrodin" phenomenon.
* Comparative Analysis seems like it could be really good. Hopefully they didn't print a blue 1-mana cantrip.
* The flavor text of Spatial Distortion is interesting. Could Planeswalkers actually be resistant to damage done by Eldrazi? By the way, if this effect looks familiar, it's a colorshifted version of the black Nameless Inversion... minus the tribal and creature type part.
* The two intro pack rare Eldrazi with colorless activated abilities seem alright.
* Tyrant of Valakut is disappointing, but Reckless Bushwhacker seems like it could be good, maybe even Constructed playable.
* Crumbling Vestige is a seriously neat design.
* Even in Two-Headed Giant, Gladehart Cavalry looks like junk.
* Walker of the Wastes is pretty neat. I wonder if other cards will care about Wastes.
* At first, I was disappointed by support, since I was thinking "isn't this the same as bolster", but I quickly realized that it wasn't, and I was surprised that this mechanic hadn't actually appeared appear. I was saying a few months ago that a "reverse bolster" might make for a good Phyrexian mechanic, but maybe a "reverse support" would be better. Inflict N - Put a -1/-1 counter on each of up to N target creatures.
* Endbringer is a pretty neat card. I'm not sure if it will be Constructed playable, but it's a definite Limited bomb.
* Jori En is a pretty good card. I was disappointed that she didn't get a card in BFZ, but I'm glad she did here.
* Stone Haven Outfitters is funny in how it seems like it's meant to combo with Skullclamp but doesn't actually. Plus, you know, Skullclamp is banned in Modern.
EDIT: As for the color pie of colorless, it seems like they're generally going for anything that carries a "distortion" flavor, which mainly seems to be a mix of black and blue effects. Endbringer entirely does stuff that artifacts have done in the past.
It really doesn't seem very impressive. A ton of competition, much of which doesn't require you to put in a lot of work. Might find a home in the right deck of course, I only follow competitive Magic tangentially.
Then again, I've been wrong so often when it comes to evaluating cards.
I was thinking the same thing. It's like a Waste with upside.
Hm? How would it be 1 mana?
More like colordrained, not colorshifted. But honestly, it feels in flavor here. Also, I don't feel like the flavor text was implying that. I feel like it's in reference to Kozilek's reality warping effects, and how it might be showing some aspects of the Blind Eternities to creatures that simply can't handle it.
SigmasonicX
Member
I'm saying that Comparative Analysis would be strong if there was a 1-mana spell that could be used to easily trigger the surge ability. If, say, Serum Visions was reprinted, then the combination of that and Comparative Analysis would be really good.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I just mean in that deck. There are probably decks that want Nameless Inversion in a world in which Lightning Strike isn't a real card.
Oh I see. Haven't they basically moved away from 1-CMC blue cantrips, instead opting to go toward things like Anticipate?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I love when you get a ton of good cards for an archetype in P1 and then the other packs just don't have any good cards in them.
Like I'm not being cut off white, its just that all the cards are Kor Castigators. =/
Like I'm not being cut off white, its just that all the cards are Kor Castigators. =/
We talking about Jori En? No way I'm putting that in a Regular Cube before Fire//Ice, Dack Fayden, Ral Zarek, Izzet Charm, Electrolyze, Prophetic Bolt or Dack's Duplicate. Going into my Zendikar Cube though. Maybe my Tribal one too.
A) I'm going to go with no. No need to overthink things here
B) 3 mana, draw 2 instant is fine but not what I'd call mind blowing enough to be worht jumping through the hoops of casting another spell
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Now I'm getting a ton of Sheer Drops, Reproaches, but I don't have enough dudes
charlequin
Banned
Both of these seem like pretty good Phyrexian mechanics to me.
Looking at this narrow space -- mechanics that add +1/+1 counters -- is interesting to me. They've been leaning on this space a lot recently since it's an easy way to create mechanics that play well (and distinctly) and have low comprehension complexity. Some of them seem a lot more functional than others, though. With support I'm concerned that the fact that it scales horizontally means it'll usually be underpowered, kind of the same way Populate was.
Joe Molotov
Member
Now I'm getting a ton of Sheer Drops, Reproaches, but I don't have enough dudes
Should have took the Kor Castigators.
So... uh... what really is the reason behind the colorless mana change? I don't... get why they would need to have a colorless symbol when X worked for "input any number" and "1" works for "1 of any color."
I get there's colorless creatures, but you're still going got use basic lands to cast them. So... why the colorless mana? Why suddenly turn into Pokemon?
I get there's colorless creatures, but you're still going got use basic lands to cast them. So... why the colorless mana? Why suddenly turn into Pokemon?
keeblerdrow
Member
Cards like Kozilek require exactly colorless mana. You can't use green or red or blue mana to pay for it. They needed a way to differentiate this from generic mana costs which could be paid for with any color. It's actually a strict requirement.
Basically, the reasoning is that people got confused when an artifact produces 2 or 3 or 4 colorless mana instead of how, say, Dark Ritual operates which works with mana symbols. Yeah, I don't get it either.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I got a few Eldrazi dudes in pack three. I mean, I'm not saying Salvage Drone is wonderful, but its fine to fill out the 23rd card.
The way Colorless Mana looks is one of those vaguely confusing things that only confuses new players since its 1 symbol that means 2 different things. If you say "I've been playing for 1270912 years and I get it just fine" you probably are not the target audience for the change.
I never saw a person get confused over this. I know that I don't have the "market research" but I do have 15 years of anecdotal evidence. I really like the mechanic, but their "reasoning" feels totally made up.
?
gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=+[kozilek] <---??
I'm not seeing anything there--oh, right the set isn't released yet. But I'm still not seeing a point of adding a colorless mana symbol. Surely using "Devoid" would've worked for a creature of colorless like the previous set. And requiring exactly colorless mana isn't really needed for said colorless creatures.
But maybe I'm just an old man yelling at clouds. I don't get how Surge is new when it's just Invasions "Kicker" mechanic with a twist of adding a teammate for two-headed giant into the "if you want a lower cost" instead of "if you want a bonus you pay more" like Kickers.
SigmasonicX
Member
Come to think of it, it might be good to link today's articles.
Oath of the Gatewatch Mechanics
Making Magic - A Solemn Oath part 1 - This goes over the decision to make Kozilek's thing colorless mana, which was, in fact, taken from The Great Designer Search 2. Notably, before that, they looked a lot into things like the rules of the game being changed if there are enough Scions, Kozilek changing what keywords do, etc. Also, a few months into design, the creative team said, "So, how does this set reinforce the idea that it's about our heroes finally forming their own team?", and the set's lead designer, Ethan Fleischer, said, "I'll have to get back to you."
Feature - A First Time for Everything - This goes into more detail about the design of this set, including following up the last part of the above article. It's mentioned that one problem Journey into Nyx had was that they didn't actually know the story was going to focus on Elspeth's journey until it was too late to greatly change things, so they made sure to talk to the creative team earlier for this set. In any case, learning about the focus on the Gatewatch allowed Fleischer to get more excited about the non-Eldrazis in the set, which he previously didn't care much for. This article also goes over the shift from drafting one of a small set (BAA) to 2 (BBA). It's also confirmed that the Gatewatch is literally the Justice League.
Reconstructed - Jumping for Jori - Previews Jori, providing possible Standard and Commander decks.
Feature - The Packaging of Oath of the Gatewatch - Reveals the packaging and the intro pack face cards.
Oath of the Gatewatch Mechanics
Making Magic - A Solemn Oath part 1 - This goes over the decision to make Kozilek's thing colorless mana, which was, in fact, taken from The Great Designer Search 2. Notably, before that, they looked a lot into things like the rules of the game being changed if there are enough Scions, Kozilek changing what keywords do, etc. Also, a few months into design, the creative team said, "So, how does this set reinforce the idea that it's about our heroes finally forming their own team?", and the set's lead designer, Ethan Fleischer, said, "I'll have to get back to you."
Feature - A First Time for Everything - This goes into more detail about the design of this set, including following up the last part of the above article. It's mentioned that one problem Journey into Nyx had was that they didn't actually know the story was going to focus on Elspeth's journey until it was too late to greatly change things, so they made sure to talk to the creative team earlier for this set. In any case, learning about the focus on the Gatewatch allowed Fleischer to get more excited about the non-Eldrazis in the set, which he previously didn't care much for. This article also goes over the shift from drafting one of a small set (BAA) to 2 (BBA). It's also confirmed that the Gatewatch is literally the Justice League.
Reconstructed - Jumping for Jori - Previews Jori, providing possible Standard and Commander decks.
Feature - The Packaging of Oath of the Gatewatch - Reveals the packaging and the intro pack face cards.
Expecting the Justice League/Gatewatch to run into the Raven Man's Legion of Doom in the near future.
I'm not totally sure what your problem with the new colorless requirement is? I think it's kind of cool that they're requiring something with no color identity to require colorless to cast it. It's completely in flavor if it's making folks say "hey, that's not how things are supposed to work", since that's what Kozilek does.
They've said that Kicker was a mistake as it's pretty much always going to be the comparison for similar abilities. Nothing they can really do about that.
I'm not totally sure what your problem with the new colorless requirement is? I think it's kind of cool that they're requiring something with no color identity to require colorless to cast it. It's completely in flavor if it's making folks say "hey, that's not how things are supposed to work", since that's what Kozilek does.
They've said that Kicker was a mistake as it's pretty much always going to be the comparison for similar abilities. Nothing they can really do about that.
How is it confusing for more than like two seconds?
"This card says 2 and G, what does that mean?"
"The two means you can use any other mana card to cast it in addition to the green. This means you can use those two islands and that forest you have on the table. Or those three forests you have to cast it."
"What does the X mean?"
"The card states that if you pay X amount of mana you can boost your power of that card by whatever you tap in addition to the color card required to cast it. So tapping two forests in addition to the island you use to call the card in will allow you to bounce two additional creatures to your opponents hand instead of just one."
"Oh."
My "problem" is that it's an unneeded editorial revision for the sake of... like... nothing. So going forward now there is going to be these colorless mana symbols to show you can pay one colorless mana instead of just the "1" that was there before. Why not just keep the "1?"
"Because they're throwing cards that could've worked before under the colorless banner."
Okay... Not sure why they need to do that, but okay.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Well, the first point you're missing is that the cards in OGW actually require specifically colorless mana to cast them:
It's a non-functional change that means nothing to you as a player. Complaining about the change is just yelling at clouds. I don't really see why anyone feels the need to complain about a non-functional change that is meaningless in every set other than OGW (and perfectly in-flavor and mechanically insteresting in it).
SigmasonicX
Member
Uh, surge is the absolute worst mechanic to compare to kicker. The "twist" makes it nothing like kicker. MaRo has said that every spell mechanic is basically either kicker or a split card, and this is more like a split card.
I don't know, your post seems to show precisely that it's confusing. Look at this card.
They are using both <> for colorless mana and (1) for generic costs, because they mean two different things, and have always meant two different things.
That explains it far better and I can see why new players wouldn't understand that in regards to the new set. Okay, makes sense now.
The way I've always viewed colorless mana is "this can be used to pay for any color mana that would be needed for 1/X costs" before. Instead, they're now making that cost a specific mana "type" for the new set to where it isn't just a generic fill-in for a basic mana card.
RuinerPrime
Member
Ooo Jori En. You will be my new Commander.
It's not unneeded.
Colorless mana was previously used solely for generic costs, which was represented with numbers. For example, Squire costing (1)(W). That (1) could be paid with anything, as you are already aware.
Now, there are cards that require you to use colorless mana, which is new, and admittedly kind of strange.
Spatial Contortion costs (1)(<>). The (1) can be paid with anything. The <> can not be paid by anything except a colorless mana, similar to how (G) in a casting cost would require one green mana specifically.
If you're worried about it changing how older cards work, it won't. Let's take Sol Ring for example. It read "Add (2) to your mana pool". Now it reads "Add (<>)(<>) to your mana pool". It's literally the same thing.
charlequin
Banned
BTW, since it came up, according to Blogatog there's a specific reason why Support is written out as a keyword and it'll be described in next week's Making Magic.
My experience with Magic has mostly been with the games that have been on Steam starting from around 2012.
However I'm at my parents' house for the holidays and I notice I do have an old physical 10th Anniversary Core Game:
Is this a thing that is usable in today's Magic games? Or are the cards that are in it probably invalid/obsolete/outdated/whatever and I'd have to buy a new set anyway?
I googled a bit and apparently this wiki has a list of what cards are in it.
However I'm at my parents' house for the holidays and I notice I do have an old physical 10th Anniversary Core Game:
Is this a thing that is usable in today's Magic games? Or are the cards that are in it probably invalid/obsolete/outdated/whatever and I'd have to buy a new set anyway?
I googled a bit and apparently this wiki has a list of what cards are in it.
I have that same set. If you have the CD-key for Magic: Online, you'll need to contact Wizards to redeem the "starter set" that includes the cards that are in that set. My CD-key wouldn't work when I installed Magic: Online like 3 years ago.
The set can still be played mostly because most of the cards it has is reprinted in newer sets. Some cards may not be playable in "standard" because they haven't been reprinted in the currently "block" but if you don't care about tournaments or rigid standards, the set is still playable.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
It will technically be legal in a format called Modern, but it doesn't have really any cards that would go into competitive decks, unfortunately. However if you were just going to play with friends you don't have to worry too much about that sort of thing, it would still be useful maybe for learning to get back into the game
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Interesting draft strategy
(He lost, because he basically didn't have any creatures and you can't just draft enough removal to outgun even an average creature-density deck. It was pretty comical seeing all of these removal spells over and over though - he even had a Roil Spout the next turn).
(He lost, because he basically didn't have any creatures and you can't just draft enough removal to outgun even an average creature-density deck. It was pretty comical seeing all of these removal spells over and over though - he even had a Roil Spout the next turn).
I do have a CD-key (and the associated CD), but what do you mean? I can redeem the code to get more physical cards?
SigmasonicX
Member
The product you posted comes with a CD-ROM for Magic Online. The product code that comes with the CD-ROM, which will provide digital versions of the physical cards, will no longer work with Magic Online, but you can get it redeemed for an updated one, apparently.
You're stuck with the physical cards from that product.
In any case, given how old that product is, it's probably better if you get back into the game using Magic Duels.
Giant Panda
Member
Wouldn't this
be Support 3 if it were in this block? I might be over-remembering the prevalence of these effects because I was playing Reap What is Sown in a heroic deck for a while.
Anyway, my bet is that support was keyworded because there will be some effect that triggers off of support, or is a support replacement effect. Maybe like a doubling support season.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Got real close, but lost in the finals to some guy with both Dragonmaster Outcast and Akoum Firebird. I could fight through the bird, but Outcast you just auto-lose to in limited.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Well I got pretty much everything for Reanimator, except I really wanted that Elesh Norn I passed in P1P1 to take Ancestral Recall.
Never saw Iona, but that's easily the funniest target for it. I have Griselbrand though, so it shouldn't be a problem since even if they remove him I can just draw into more reanimators.
No, Support is a creature keyword that won't allow counters to be placed on itself.
Never saw Iona, but that's easily the funniest target for it. I have Griselbrand though, so it shouldn't be a problem since even if they remove him I can just draw into more reanimators.
Wouldn't this
be Support 3 if it were in this block? I might be over-remembering the prevalence of these effects because I was playing Reap What is Sown in a heroic deck for a while.
Anyway, my bet is that support was keyworded because there will be some effect that triggers off of support, or is a support replacement effect. Maybe like a doubling support season.
No, Support is a creature keyword that won't allow counters to be placed on itself.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Down 10 tix in 5 minutes flat. Opponent was playing Aggro with Ravages of War/Armageddon and I had sort of kind of bad opening hands.
Playing Magic Duels now. Not keen on this thing they have where they interrupt your game with a mini-game to illustrate some particular aspect of the cards you're using. I mean sure I can see what they're trying to go for but I feel like it just kinda interrupts the flow of the game, and then when you get back to the main game you're all like right, where the hell was I and what was I doing.
EDIT: also it doesn't auto pause when you alt-tab out, that's annoying.
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