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[RadioHeadAche]

If I had some way to play MM without having to buy another console, I'd be all over that game right now thanks to the OP.

 

[MisterAnderson]

I need to play this shit again.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

Love the artwork in the OP. Amazing.

I still play this game on my wii with that collection on gamecube. Still phenomenal.

 

[Flare]

I downloaded the game on the VC half a year back. Played it until I had the Deku Mask and kinda forgot about it. I decided to revisit is again today and I'm so used to actually controlling the camera that I keep using the C-Stick to move it around. Obviously I end up using the item assigned to the direction on the c-stick.

So I made it all the way to Woodfall Temple. I forgot how creepy that place was, let alone the game itself. By far the darkest game in the series - no competition. There are so many subtle themes, and touches here and there. It feels amazing to go back and revisit these places.

Also, Majora is certainly the best villain Nintendo has created for The Legend of Zelda. I can't say anything about Porky/Giygas as I haven't played Earthbound. Yet. I'll get to it someday - already have a huge backlog of games to deal with =\

 

[Ezalc]

sephiran - this guy gives me some serious chills

What? Why? I thought he was pretty boring.

 

[EatChildren]

I like the idea that the Majora entity is leagues above Ganondof in demonic power.

A theory I've been bouncing about:

See, I like your theory and its stuff like that I wish Nintendo would pursue with the lore. Ganondorf is a tough cookie, but if they want to do something new (and they should) someone like Majora would be a perfect avenue to explore.

The idea that he is essentially the Satan/Morgoth of the Zelda universe works really well, as unlike someone like Ganondorf who is deliberately calculating, Majora is nothing but chaos and evil beyond mortal reason. As you explained in your op, his evils against Termina are for no reason other than to cause pain and missery, unlike Ganondorf who desired power.

He'd be a perfect fit for Skyward Sword, but Nintendo wont do it because it would make too much sense.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Nintendo won't do it because they don't care about the story on anything more than a point a to b motivator level. They care insofar as the scenario is concerned. The actual content is and always will be there to facilitate that on a superficial level that anyone from the ages and six and up can easily understand. It's time to accept this as a fact of life.

 

[Ezalc]

He'd be a perfect fit for Skyward Sword, but Nintendo wont do it because it would make too much sense.

Why? We know next to nothing about the game story wise. Why would Majora be a perfect fit for this new Zelda game, it makes no sense to me.

 

[EatChildren]

Nintendo won't do it because they don't care about the story on anything more than a point a to b motivator level. They care insofar as the scenario is concerned. The actual content is and always will be there to facilitate that on a superficial level that anyone from the ages and six and up can easily understand. It's time to accept this as a fact of life.

I've already accepted it. But even so, it doesn't mean what has been suggest couldn't be done under the same development.

Why? We know next to nothing about the game story wise. Why would Majora be a perfect fit for this new Zelda game, it makes no sense to me.

Because people have been complaining for a long time now that Ganondorf as a recurring villain with the same motives has become tiresome. If Skyward sword is indeed early in the timeline as some people theorise, then it could be a good opening to do an origin story for Majora, an established villain who has only appeared in one game.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

At least we'll probably get a 3DS remake.

The sinister moon popping out of the screen should be a hoot.

 

[Big One]

Nintendo won't do it because they don't care about the story on anything more than a point a to b motivator level. They care insofar as the scenario is concerned. The actual content is and always will be there to facilitate that on a superficial level that anyone from the ages and six and up can easily understand. It's time to accept this as a fact of life.

Actually Aonuma cares very much about the story. I mean how could you say this when Twilight Princess and The Wind Waker was reliant on Ocarina of Time's story for it's own storylines? Those games are so intertwined together it's ridiculous.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

They're intertwined because it takes very little effort to say they are and wink at the player as they tug on your nostalgia pleasure-centre without actually earning any of it or having anything resembling foresight (hello split timelines)

Hyrule didn't flood because the Hero of Time left it. The Hero of Time left because Hyrule was flooded.

 

[John]

In realms outside of videogames, this is known as one-dimensional and shallow. Literature and (quality) films would giggle at this.

Not really, no. Not every aspect of a good book or movie has to be multi-faceted, especially if they're not central to its larger meaning. The purpose of some characters is to just drive the conflict, nothing more.

 

[Big One]

They're intertwined because it takes very little effort to say they are

No not really. Did you even pay attention to their plot? The Wind Waker, in particular, continued off where Ocarina of Time left off. The whole plot itself relies on Ocarina of Time's plot to drive it's story. With Twilight Princess it's more subtle, as it explains what happens to Ganondorf in the Child Timeline in it's backstory. Admittedly the plot to Twilight Princess focuses mainly on Midna's story rather than Ganondorf's, and has a lot of details about stuff that happened in ancient Hyrule in it's backstory interestingly enough. Even if you take each game as a single legend, Aonuma still cares very much about the story and continuity between the titles he directs and produces.

Hyrule didn't flood because the Hero of Time left it. The Hero of Time left because Hyrule was flooded.

This doesn't make sense...

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I think he cares very much about forcing different brands of Lego pieces together, sure. It doesn't make the final product anything more than a Frankenstein of different ideas dreamed up by different people for different purposes.

And I mean, good for him. I like a good wink and nudge every now and then. But let's not go crazy and try and make it out to be anything more than what it.

Sorry, I didn't mean to start a Zelda story rant. I bottle it up so sometimes it just kind of goes off.

 

[EatChildren]

I think he cares very much about forcing different brands of Lego pieces together, sure. It doesn't make the final product anything more than a Frankenstein of different ideas dreamed up by different people for different purposes.

I dont know about 'forcing'. I do think that, much like Valve, Nintendo prioritise the game experience over pushing a story, but they do make an effort to include lore and reference material in the various games, and its worth noting that Twilight Princess was developed as a 'scenario first' game, not a 'gameplay first' game.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I think it's important to separate scenario and story here. That was my point with the Hero of Time thing.

Recent Zelda games, post-OOT specifically (because really they know how to make these things now), seem like games built on top of a premises before most anything else. I'd argue that that's dramatically different than building a game as a sequel to the child-branch of "the timeline".

I think the difference here between Valve and the Zelda team will always be the amount of effort put into any one facet of the story. Valve earns their story-beats by actually working hard to make things click together seamlessly. I mean, once we bring a Western studio into the picture we have to start talking about language and cultural barriers and all the rest of it, and that's a less interesting discussion to me.

 

[Fat Goron]

I'd say Termina itself is Nintendo's greatest villain.

That place is fucked as hell, and even so, it's absolutely fascinating.

 

[Ezalc]

Because people have been complaining for a long time now that Ganondorf as a recurring villain with the same motives has become tiresome. If Skyward sword is indeed early in the timeline as some people theorise, then it could be a good opening to do an origin story for Majora, an established villain who has only appeared in one game.

Ehh I suppose there's some logic in the whole thing.

 

[viewtiful_dru]

Yeah I know but I'm worried usually the new FE games haven't looked all that great and that goes for the GCN ones. The artstyle doesn't seem to transition well into 3D. I would absolutely love a FE4 remake on the console as look as it looks damn good and the make Sigurd into the motherfucking badass he is.

Also to the other poster, considering all the shit Manfloy does to Sigurd let alone all the others he fucks with then yes I believe he's easily the most evil Nintendo villain ever. I also never said he was evil for the sake of evil.


In the Pokemon manga the entire Elite 4 is evil and is part of team rocket. Some of the gym leaders are part of team rocket or were, and they do horrible shit. The ice gym leader from Gold/Silver whose name I forget, he kidnaps 4 young children (one of which is silver if I remember correctly) and brainwashes them into becoming his minions and shit so he can fuck up the world because of some dumbass reason. Also he almost succeeds in killing Gold. And that's just the tip of it. Sometimes I wish the games had the manga's darker plot, it would make it much more interesting than the boring ass "plots" the games have.

You forgot to mention the scene where Giovanni orders his Cloyster to freeze a pokemon and then proceeds to have it shattered in pieces

 

[apana]

The Zelda story is important to Aonuma. He shares the official timeline with the director of each new entry. Sure they usually get a story together after the gameplay has been laid down, but that doesn't mean there is no story. If you think the story is lame, well I don't know, you don't have to pay attention.

 

[Ashhong]

Man the final battle vs Majora was such a let down since I used the Deity mask. My own fault I guess.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

This doesn't make sense...

The scenario writers came up with the idea of a flooded Hyrule first, then afterwards came up with a reason why.

 

[[Nintex]]

Finally started playing this again and finished the first dungeon for the first time. Such a dark and awesome game.

After finishing the dungeon I did some sidequests. I'm still not quite sure how these schedules work out and who's where and at what time. It seems to be much more complex than other action adventure and zelda games of this type. Still it's a unique game and I'm not going to start any other game untill I've finished it

 

[Anth0ny]

Man the final battle vs Majora was such a let down since I used the Deity mask. My own fault I guess.

Yeah, beating it for the first time without the Fierce Deity mask was one hell of a thrill. Then, going back later to absolutely smack him with the FD mask felt great too =D

So, I read my Majora's Mask manga yesterday for the first time. It was pretty cool, the Majora backstory was definitely interesting.

 

[Neiteio]

At least we'll probably get a 3DS remake.

The sinister moon popping out of the screen should be a hoot.

Yeah, looking up in stereo 3D would give the sky a real sense of depth, the moon a real sense of weight. Not to mention the mask spinning toward the screen when you boot up the game... Or Link falling into the depths of time whenever he travels back to the first day... Or the wave of fire rolling toward the screen when the world ends... MM makes more sense for the 3DS than OoT, which is why I hope they'll remake MM at some point as well. Most of the assets will already be available by way of OoT 3D...

 

[Screenboy]

Majora will only come out on 3DS if OOT sells well. Id like it to come out though as I'd love another crack at it.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

My guess is that Majora's Mask has some connections to the Twili tribe in Twilight Princess. They say that the mask was created by dark sorcerers or a dark tribe. I have the feeling that Majora is Termina's equivalent of the leader of the dark interlopers in Hyrule. In Skyward Sword we could possibly face Majora's Hyrulian equivalent.

Zeldapedia also offers a theory similar to this, and there do seem to be pattern similarities between the carvings on the mask and the Fused Shadow.

Majora's powers, including possession and manipulation of celestial bodies, seems to go way beyond the Twili (not to mention Ganon) in terms of power though. The entity also seems, based on our limited impression from the game, to be too much of a disaster-incarnate to be a leader of anything or anyone.

There is also another theory on there, that Majora consumed pain and death, and would have been elevated back to godhood by destroying Termina. This would explain the "I will consume everything" line, but its not a theory I'm fond of as it makes his motives mundane.

I really prefer the idea that it is some sort of universal incarnation of chaos, that enters the world through artifacts involved in attrocities and great evils. The mask was used as a tool in ritual murder, one of the darkest artifacts of the Zelda universe, this made it a perfect entry point. Another artifact that had been involved in similar evils could act as another summoning artifact.

The great thing about this game and character is that we know so little, that many theories are possible.

But Majora's Mask DID come from Hyrule.

Well, it's very possible in the very least, since HMS is able to travel between both dimensions freely.

There is a pattern in the Zelda series that all the great evils invade other worlds from Hyrule.

General Onox and Veran were dispatched to Holodrum and Labrynna by Koume and Kotake, Hyrule natives.

Ganondorf invaded the Great Sea, Sacred Realm and the Twilight Realm from Hyrule.

Majora's vessel, the mask itself was brought from Hyrule to Termina. The Stone Temple, apparently millenia old evidences that Majora had been there before and gained enough noteriety that it was worshipped. Its notable that this shrine to Majora contains the only appearance of a Triforce mural (explicitly referencing and linking the being to Hyrule) in the entirety of Termina. This would suggest that Majora's Mask is linked to Hyrule, if not originally a product of it.

Vaati's various machinations seem to be limited solely to Hyrule.

Dark Link also has limited his appearances to Hyrule.

The Nightmares of the Wind Fish (the baddies, bosses and even its boss forms) incarnate in the forms of known Hyrule menaces. Moblins/Nightmare Aghanim/Nightmare Ganon, etc. Nearly every enemy was seen in Hyrule in LttP/LoZ. Its possible the imprisoning wars and monsters of Hyrule somehow polluted the distant Wind Fish's slumber.

Is it ever explained why the moon moves at a pace approaching molasses?

Perhaps to draw out the dread and terror in Termina's inhabitants? This does seem fitting with Majora's sadism throughout the game.

k one thing the op fucked up

the whole majoras plan is perfect thing. the plan wasnt perfect; the point was that in the end he was undone by his own sadism. he was himself responsible for sending link through termina, cos he wanted to fuck with him some more.

literally an obvious literary technique.

This could have been Skull Kid's (rather than Majora's) initiative, jealousy towards Link for being accepted and liked while he was reviled.

Alternatively, Majora could have sensed the power of the Ocarina (as another artifiact of universe-changing power), stole it but simply didn't have time in the three days before doomsday to learn how to use it or even understand what this power was.

Thirdly, the attack on Link could have been another one of his pranks, merely transforming Link for the sadistic pleasure of doing so, as he had done with so many others. He could not have planned for the fact that this child was a time-travelling, triforce-wielding uberkid.

His plan was pretty spot on. Majora imprisoned the Giants making it impossible in the three-day-period for anyone to free them all. Time travel was not considered as it does not exist to anyone within Termina.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

The Zelda story is important to Aonuma. He shares the official timeline with the director of each new entry. Sure they usually get a story together after the gameplay has been laid down, but that doesn't mean there is no story. If you think the story is lame, well I don't know, you don't have to pay attention.

Its interesting that, despite Aonuma's habit to reference his previous Zelda games, Majora's Mask is rarely ever mentioned. There's the appearance of a Skull-Kid like ghost creature in TP, and Tingle's recurring appearances, but they're no more than minor nods.

The core story of Majora's Mask, the existence of Termina, the Majora entity, none of them are ever mentioned again. Considering that it may be the most interesting Zelda story ever told, it's a real shame. Especially when the events of OOT are so continually alluded to.

If Majora was ever brought back, they could pull a great bait and switch. Big up Ganondorf for the first quarter of the game or so, then introduce Majora as the deranged psychopath that totally dwarfs his power. Ganondorf would have to fight him, hell everything in Hyrule would. He is an Extinction Level Event incarnate. This would also provide a nice new role for Ganondorf, that of the ally of circumstance. The three bearers of the Triforce versus Majora.

That would be a pleasant direction for a future game.

 

[TreIII]

The three bearers of the Triforce versus Majora.

That would be a pleasant direction for a future game.

Certainly would. Then again, my fave games in the series (AoL, LA, MM) are all games that buck the usual Ganon/Triforce/Hyrule dynamic thing and tell a different type of story using the universe. I could certainly go for more along those lines.

 

[beelzebozo]

The core story of Majora's Mask, the existence of Termina, the Majora entity, none of them are ever mentioned again. Considering that it may be the most interesting Zelda story ever told, it's a real shame. Especially when the events of OOT are so continually alluded to.

a lot of that is sort of explained by the fact that all that never happened now, right? i mean, except to link?

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Its interesting that, despite Aonuma's habit to reference his previous Zelda games, Majora's Mask is rarely ever mentioned. There's the appearance of a Skull-Kid like ghost creature in TP, and Tingle's recurring appearances, but they're no more than minor nods.

The core story of Majora's Mask, the existence of Termina, the Majora entity, none of them are ever mentioned again. Considering that it may be the most interesting Zelda story ever told, it's a real shame. Especially when the events of OOT are so continually alluded to.

If Majora was ever brought back, they could pull a great bait and switch. Big up Ganondorf for the first quarter of the game or so, then introduce Majora as the deranged psychopath that totally dwarfs his power. Ganondorf would have to fight him, hell everything in Hyrule would. He is an Extinction Level Event incarnate. This would also provide a nice new role for Ganondorf, that of the ally of circumstance. The three bearers of the Triforce versus Majora.

That would be a pleasant direction for a future game.

Not sure how the fans would react to the series' iconic villain getting one upped by a one time only villain. I doubt Nintendo would have the balls to do it.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Not sure how the fans would react to the series' iconic villain getting one upped by a one time only villain.

Half would be like "omg Ganon is an icon <fan rage>" the other half would be happy Ganon is gone because he's being overused.

Personally I think it's okay to have Majora as a one off villain, it's more interesting that way.

 

[Kard8p3]

If Majora was ever brought back, they could pull a great bait and switch. Big up Ganondorf for the first quarter of the game or so, then introduce Majora as the deranged psychopath that totally dwarfs his power. Ganondorf would have to fight him, hell everything in Hyrule would. He is an Extinction Level Event incarnate. This would also provide a nice new role for Ganondorf, that of the ally of circumstance. The three bearers of the Triforce versus Majora.

That would be a pleasant direction for a future game.

To have Ganon be the pawn for once could be interesting. He'd finally see what it feels like. It would be cool to see Majora come back but by doing more with the character it could possibly damage the mystery behind him. It might be best to leave him as is.

 

[carlo6529]

If Majora was ever brought back, they could pull a great bait and switch. Big up Ganondorf for the first quarter of the game or so, then introduce Majora as the deranged psychopath that totally dwarfs his power. Ganondorf would have to fight him, hell everything in Hyrule would. He is an Extinction Level Event incarnate. This would also provide a nice new role for Ganondorf, that of the ally of circumstance. The three bearers of the Triforce versus Majora.

That would be a pleasant direction for a future game.

That would be pretty cool.

To have Ganon be the pawn for once could be interesting. He'd finally see what it feels like. It would be cool to see Majora come back but by doing more with the character it could possibly damage the mystery behind him. It might be best to leave him as is.

Have Ganon be Majora's pawn. Then at the right time, have Ganon betray Majora and turn him into the mask.

Spoiler

I know a lot of people won't like that

 

[ZedIndyLil]

If I ever get new thread privileges, I will aspire to make OP's as great as yours, Mama Rob.

Really can't disagree with your reasoning, either. I'm no Nintendo expert, but you make a great case. I would only say that MM's structure allows this kind of villainy, whose nature would be impossible the "passive villain behind 1000 locked doors" games that dominate the adventure landscape.

Again (because it can never be said enough): MM is one of a very few number of games that demonstrate the potential of video games as a narrative form. PLEASE, game designers, feel free to copy MM's structure, rather than all the other humdrum games that you take from.

 

[Littleberu]

Its interesting that, despite Aonuma's habit to reference his previous Zelda games, Majora's Mask is rarely ever mentioned. There's the appearance of a Skull-Kid like ghost creature in TP, and Tingle's recurring appearances, but they're no more than minor nods.

The core story of Majora's Mask, the existence of Termina, the Majora entity, none of them are ever mentioned again. Considering that it may be the most interesting Zelda story ever told, it's a real shame. Especially when the events of OOT are so continually alluded to.

If Majora was ever brought back, they could pull a great bait and switch. Big up Ganondorf for the first quarter of the game or so, then introduce Majora as the deranged psychopath that totally dwarfs his power. Ganondorf would have to fight him, hell everything in Hyrule would. He is an Extinction Level Event incarnate. This would also provide a nice new role for Ganondorf, that of the ally of circumstance. The three bearers of the Triforce versus Majora.

That would be a pleasant direction for a future game.

That might have been answered in the past, but does anyone know why Midna had one eye of the Majora's mask on her helmet?

 

[MindCollizion]

Because Majora's Wrath is not fully known. Majora is the evil nature which runs through Ganon. Majora is much more than its manifestation in MM, or its Mask. Majora is the true evil and in Skyward Sword... we will.. Understand.

 

[UltimaKilo]

His manifestation is tremendously unsettling

When he chooses to emerge from the mask, he is a flashy cross-dressing transvestite who's penis is tucked away. He paints his body and whips boys behinds in Key West.

Fixed.

 

[John]

Personally I think it's okay to have Majora as a one off villain, it's more interesting that way.

exactly. majora's story is great. majora's story is over. let it stay that way.

and not just because i like new things. extra story tacked onto majora would kill the perverted mystery that surrounds the character, which is what makes it so fascinating.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Great post I totally agree. Majora was scary as hell if you get past the colorful exterior

 

[Medalion]

MAJORA VS GIYGAS

 

[Jeeves]

Its interesting that, despite Aonuma's habit to reference his previous Zelda games, Majora's Mask is rarely ever mentioned. There's the appearance of a Skull-Kid like ghost creature in TP, and Tingle's recurring appearances, but they're no more than minor nods.

The core story of Majora's Mask, the existence of Termina, the Majora entity, none of them are ever mentioned again. Considering that it may be the most interesting Zelda story ever told, it's a real shame. Especially when the events of OOT are so continually alluded to.

If Majora was ever brought back, they could pull a great bait and switch. Big up Ganondorf for the first quarter of the game or so, then introduce Majora as the deranged psychopath that totally dwarfs his power. Ganondorf would have to fight him, hell everything in Hyrule would. He is an Extinction Level Event incarnate. This would also provide a nice new role for Ganondorf, that of the ally of circumstance. The three bearers of the Triforce versus Majora.

That would be a pleasant direction for a future game.

Now I want to see that really badly and I know it will never happen. Dammit, isn't that always the problem with Nintendo?

 

[beelzebozo]

it's more interesting because it's more scarce. flip that scenario, tons of majora is hyrulian satan stories, and people would be really interested in this story about ganon.

 

[WillyFive]

How is the VC release of Majora's Mask? This thread has pushed me over the edge to replay this game.

It works fine. But the colors and brightness are toned down, due to the way the Wii's N64 emulator works or something like that.

 

[Ushojax]

exactly. majora's story is great. majora's story is over. let it stay that way.

and not just because i like new things. extra story tacked onto majora would kill the perverted mystery that surrounds the character, which is what makes it so fascinating.

Definitely. The brilliant thing about MM is that while it has a brilliant story, there is a huge amount of room for personal interpretation of the David Lynch style characters and plot. The motives of the Mask Salesman, the history of Majora's Mask, the similarities between Link and the Skull Kid, they can be whatever you want them to be, and I wouldn't want my own version of events to be distorted by an official sequel/prequel whatever. The only thing that matters in terms of ongoing story is that when Link arrived in Termina he had no friends, and when he left, he did.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Just ordered the MM Manga just because of some pictures posted in this thread.....

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

...that's....actually a really good argument. Bravo.

I agree. More Majora please. That would get me playing another Zelda game.

Also...please no more pictures of Majora. He freaks me out.

 

[K' Dash]

It works fine. But the colors and brightness are toned down, due to the way the Wii's N64 emulator works or something like that.

it looks fantastic on my Panasonic Plasma, no colors or brightness issues, it looks even better than Twilight Princess.

Just defeated the first Dungeon Boss, now to get the fairies

 

[Cygnus X-1]

I just discovered this thread. I lol'ed reading the OP, but I'm pretty in agreement with the content. Impressive analysis.