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Manhunt 2 Rated Adults Only by ESRB
- Thread starter ElectricBlue187
- Start date
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
I was only midly interested in this title before, not really my kind of thing.
Now, I can't wait to own it.
Now, I can't wait to own it.
PjotrStroganov
Member
Haleon said:
Funny that many AO games have been published already. GTA3, God of War etc. They may have been rated M, but in reality these games are AO just as well. They are nothing less violent then GTA SA and the arbitrary rating of GTA SA to AO has really exposed the flawed system. The rating of both AO and M games that are rated 18+ in Europe also shows the inconsistency of the ESRB and its commercial background.
TheKingsCrown
Banned
I agree, I think this is the most ridiculous part. I do not think that any rating should exclude the game from retailers, and if it does, that board has to be very very careful which titles it gives the rating to. It is NOT the job of the board to prevent the titles from getting into the hands of children. It is the job of parents, and retailers. It is in this way that I think they have failed on this one.Razoric said:
plagiarize
Banned
lets make sure we blame Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony too.TheKingsCrown said:
it's not like Nintendo don't know what content is in Manhunt 2. it's not like they haven't been in contact with each other... but they won't license it based on what some third party ratings board thinks?
it's not like they'd have to allow every AO game on their system.
plagiarize said:
Honstly I don't blame Nintendo, Sony or MS. "AO" has this black cloud over it and anyone who supports it would be considered heathens, 'sick f*cks', etc.
If M is too soft for this game then AO is too harsh. Maybe for games like Manhunt they should classify it as M+ or something. Meaning stores have the option to not carry it because of its graphic violence but it's still supported by the gaming industry as a whole.
The AO rating is bullshit and a way to make companies censor their games to whatever moral ideals the current ESRB board has. This is the MPAA bullshit all over again.
ShutEye said:
It happens. A game I worked on initially received an "M" rating when we were shooting for a "T." We just had to go out and take the stuff out they found offensive. I imagine the same thing will happen here.
Really, it's no different than a movie initially receiving an NC-17 rating (like "Team America" did). No major studio usually will release an NC-17 movie, so they re-cut it for the R.
Also, I noticed because of Manhunt 2 there has been a lot of misinformation about Manhunt 1 in the press (and even on Gamespot's podcast) about how a murder took place in the UK and the killer played and was inspired by Manhunt.
This is complete and utter bullshit.
The killer never even played the game. :lol
So the next time you hear Jack Thompson or anyone else talk about how Manhunt caused a murder in the UK, know that it's a complete lie.
This is complete and utter bullshit.
The killer never even played the game. :lol
So the next time you hear Jack Thompson or anyone else talk about how Manhunt caused a murder in the UK, know that it's a complete lie.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
I was already pretty sure, since games don't make people kill people, even if it was his.Razoric said:
Segata Sanshiro
Member
The only true words that have come out of Jack Thompson's mouth in the last four years have been "My name is Jack Thompson" and I'm not even real sure about that.Razoric said:
TheKingsCrown
Banned
I want to play.ShutEye said:
TheKingsCrown
Banned
I was just reading why a Winner was you, and saw this quote by Bobafett from that thread:Snaku said:
Mark my words:
PS3 will cost USD 399. It will come with a 100GB HD and Wifi built-in.
Sorry, made me laugh out loud
speculawyer
Member
ShutEye said:
2 & 3 kinda contradict each other. But I guess they just point to the fine line between M and AO.
Well, if they were really expecting an 'M' rating, they shouldn't be too far away such that they might be able to just cut it a bit and get the 'M'. (I hope.)
"It's such a fine line between stupid, and clever."
-David St. Hubbins
The Faceless Master
Member
they're the ones who produce the games, so of course they can stop production... simply by just not producing any ...Brobzoid said:
speculawyer said:
Yeah I found that confusing when we spoke. He mentioned he thought the design team & management had "blinders on" in regards to the content. He felt that since they got an M rating with the first Manhunt that Rockstar thought there wouldn't be an issue with the sequel. I guess they were wrong.
And I hope for Rockstar employees' in the UK and Toronto that they find a way for the game to be released, AO, M or otherwise.
Broken Arrow
Member
Hope they will release it for the PC untouched...
ManaByte
Gold Member
Take-Two shelves Manhunt 2
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6172931.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;0
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6172931.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;0
speculawyer
Member
There goes about the only Wii game I'd get before Super Mario Galaxy.
(OK, I might pick up Resident Evil 4 like everyone else.)
(OK, I might pick up Resident Evil 4 like everyone else.)
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Well, that sucks.
Reggie begged them for it, I want to hear his take on the subject. He should help them get the content out, they probably were banking on NoA's support :lol
Reggie begged them for it, I want to hear his take on the subject. He should help them get the content out, they probably were banking on NoA's support :lol
Joseph Merrick
Member
what a bunch of bullshit
same here, the only release I wanted to pick up between now and mariospeculawyer said:
That Gamespot headline is sensational and misleading. If you read the quote, T2 has only said it's not coming out on the initial release date till they figure out what's going on. [speculation]Most likely, they'll release a toned-down "M" rated version of the game when it's ready[/speculation]. It's not like this game has been canned and is never coming out.
That seems like a pretty plausible explanation for this whole mess. Working on the basis of the first title setting a precedent is a very risky business strategy. I just find it so hard to believe that they didn't get the AO vibe from any focus testing or project meetings. It's now sounding more like a case of mismanagement or incompetence than intent. And where the heck was the publisher in all this, surely they would have been keeping tabs on this given the violent nature of the game.ShutEye said:
I'd love to see someone write up a big post mortem on this.
Going forward, how much control does the ESRB have over add-on content that can be downloaded through XBL and the PlayStation Network? It would nice if at some point, games hit with that rating and slightly modified to hit retail shelves let you download the "explicit" content on your own. What about this is supposed to be more graphic than the original?
What a kick in the nuts. I hope they stand behind this game and release it in every country that allows an uncut version. If Nintendo/Sony won't license it globally I hope they make a PC version. I'm sorry for everyone who worked on this game. Gameplay wise it seems to be pretty good also.
IAmtheFMan
Member
This SUCKS.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Wink said:
its not like Nintendo and Sony's standards blindsided anybody. Everyone has known their stance on AO rated games, so its "everyone who worked on this game" who is at fault for apparently being too dumb to recognize that. Standing behind it will only cause them to lose more money and get their game in as few gamers hands as possible.
PjotrStroganov said:
Um, did you bother to check the ratings first? Neither Grand Theft Auto III nor God of War are rated AO (both were rated M). The ONLY console game to get an AO rating when it first released (unlike GTA: SA, which got re-rated after it had been released) was "The Joy of Sex" for the CD-i. Every other AO rated game that got released was for the PC and/or Mac.
TJ Spyke said:
He's saying he knows they rated M, but I guess he means they should have been rated AO. I don't see how that's the case. The events in GTA3 and God of War are not worse than what you see in an R rated movie.
I thought the whole point of the AO rating was to differentiate stuff that is basically interactive porn (like the CD-i title you mentioned) from regular games. I guess the real problem is that since people still equate games as a kid's hobby it doesn't get held to the same standards as movies. Unless there is something really off the wall in Manhunt 2 that we don't know about yet, it is probably no worse than than a lot of the movies that are sold at Walmart, Target, and other "mainstream" retailers.
I can understand Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo wanting to distance themselves from products that really do deserve the AO rating, but it doesn't sound like the ratings are being applied in a logical manner.
hyp
Member
don't think this has been posted yet...
source: http://kotaku.com/gaming/feature/esrb-head-talks-ao-manhunt-2-and-community-standards-271159.php
1. With the Wii, developers can now make games that allow gamers to physically act out violent acts and see them occur in a game. Games such as Godfather, Scarface and Manhunt 2 all do this. Do such controls have an impact on a game's rating? If so do you think that supports the argument that a game's interactive nature makes it more dangerous than more passive experiences like watching a movie, listening to music or reading a book?
PV: We've always been very clear about the fact that the degree of player control is one of several elements that the ESRB considers in the assignment of ratings, including the content itself, it's frequency, intensity and realism, context within which it is presented, and the reward system. The interactive nature of games certainly differentiates them from more passive forms of media like films and televisions, which is why the ESRB system takes these other unique characteristics into consideration.
2. Has the ESRB ever rated a game Adults Only due to violence?
PV: Yes. The AO rating has been assigned more often than it actually ends up appearing on product shipped. Our system affords publishers the opportunity to modify and resubmit games that receive the AO rating in light of the business ramifications that such a rating currently presents.
3. An Adults Only rated game is akin to NC-17, I believe, for movies. Do you think it's fair to say that an AO rated game is essentially obscene?
PV: An Adults Only rating does not mean the game qualifies as being "obscene." And as confirmed on the MPAA website, nor does an NC-17 rating.
4. From a buyer's perspective, or a parent's perspective, the difference between a game rated Mature and a game rated Adults Only in one year. You have to be 17 to buy one and 18 to buy the other. How does one distinguish the fine line between the two when rating a game?
PV: While in terms of age recommendation the difference between the M and AO categories is only one year, the real utility of the AO rating is in communicating intensity. It indicates that the content in the game is more intense than what is typically found in an M-rated title, and the rating is there because that distinction is useful to consumers. Our raters review all of the pertinent content in a game and use their judgment to assign ratings they find to be appropriate given that content. It's worth nothing that, in terms of age recommendation, there is no difference between an R and an NC-17 rating for movies, as they both use 17 as the age threshold.
5. In general, when rating a game does the ESRB use a system that relies on community standards to decide what is and isn't an acceptable level of violence or sexual references in a game? If so, do you feel those standards shift over time?
PV: By their very nature, as well as to maintain credibility and trust, ratings must reasonably reflect the current cultural norms and community standards of those for whom they are intended. That is why we regularly conduct research across the country to gauge parental agreement with the ratings. Our most recent study found that parents agreed with the ratings we assigned 82% of the time, and 5% of the time they actually found our rating "too strict." The FTC's report from April of this year also found strong agreement with ratings, and in fact reported that 87% of the parents they surveyed are "somewhat" to "very" satisfied with the ESRB ratings. We'll continue to ensure that parents are satisfied with the ratings we assign.
6. Do you think the ESRB's ratings have become more strict since the issue surrounding Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas came to light?
PV: The key issue with Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas was to correct a rating that was undermined when locked-out content that had been left in the code of a game became unlocked. Although we clarified our rules at that time to require that publishers disclose pertinent locked-out content on the game disc, the rating process itself has remained consistent, as have the rating assignments in terms of parity.
7. Rockstar has said that they feel that Manhunt 2 is very similar to the original Manhunt in the level and type of violence depicted. If that is the case why did one receive a Mature rating and the other appears to be on the verge of an Adults Only rating?
PV: Obviously, Manhunt 2 is a different product from the original Manhunt. The raters evaluated the submission for Manhunt 2 and determined that the AO rating was the appropriate rating assignment. Per our statement from 6/20, it would be inappropriate to comment further at this time.
source: http://kotaku.com/gaming/feature/esrb-head-talks-ao-manhunt-2-and-community-standards-271159.php
1. With the Wii, developers can now make games that allow gamers to physically act out violent acts and see them occur in a game. Games such as Godfather, Scarface and Manhunt 2 all do this. Do such controls have an impact on a game's rating? If so do you think that supports the argument that a game's interactive nature makes it more dangerous than more passive experiences like watching a movie, listening to music or reading a book?
PV: We've always been very clear about the fact that the degree of player control is one of several elements that the ESRB considers in the assignment of ratings, including the content itself, it's frequency, intensity and realism, context within which it is presented, and the reward system. The interactive nature of games certainly differentiates them from more passive forms of media like films and televisions, which is why the ESRB system takes these other unique characteristics into consideration.
2. Has the ESRB ever rated a game Adults Only due to violence?
PV: Yes. The AO rating has been assigned more often than it actually ends up appearing on product shipped. Our system affords publishers the opportunity to modify and resubmit games that receive the AO rating in light of the business ramifications that such a rating currently presents.
3. An Adults Only rated game is akin to NC-17, I believe, for movies. Do you think it's fair to say that an AO rated game is essentially obscene?
PV: An Adults Only rating does not mean the game qualifies as being "obscene." And as confirmed on the MPAA website, nor does an NC-17 rating.
4. From a buyer's perspective, or a parent's perspective, the difference between a game rated Mature and a game rated Adults Only in one year. You have to be 17 to buy one and 18 to buy the other. How does one distinguish the fine line between the two when rating a game?
PV: While in terms of age recommendation the difference between the M and AO categories is only one year, the real utility of the AO rating is in communicating intensity. It indicates that the content in the game is more intense than what is typically found in an M-rated title, and the rating is there because that distinction is useful to consumers. Our raters review all of the pertinent content in a game and use their judgment to assign ratings they find to be appropriate given that content. It's worth nothing that, in terms of age recommendation, there is no difference between an R and an NC-17 rating for movies, as they both use 17 as the age threshold.
5. In general, when rating a game does the ESRB use a system that relies on community standards to decide what is and isn't an acceptable level of violence or sexual references in a game? If so, do you feel those standards shift over time?
PV: By their very nature, as well as to maintain credibility and trust, ratings must reasonably reflect the current cultural norms and community standards of those for whom they are intended. That is why we regularly conduct research across the country to gauge parental agreement with the ratings. Our most recent study found that parents agreed with the ratings we assigned 82% of the time, and 5% of the time they actually found our rating "too strict." The FTC's report from April of this year also found strong agreement with ratings, and in fact reported that 87% of the parents they surveyed are "somewhat" to "very" satisfied with the ESRB ratings. We'll continue to ensure that parents are satisfied with the ratings we assign.
6. Do you think the ESRB's ratings have become more strict since the issue surrounding Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas came to light?
PV: The key issue with Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas was to correct a rating that was undermined when locked-out content that had been left in the code of a game became unlocked. Although we clarified our rules at that time to require that publishers disclose pertinent locked-out content on the game disc, the rating process itself has remained consistent, as have the rating assignments in terms of parity.
7. Rockstar has said that they feel that Manhunt 2 is very similar to the original Manhunt in the level and type of violence depicted. If that is the case why did one receive a Mature rating and the other appears to be on the verge of an Adults Only rating?
PV: Obviously, Manhunt 2 is a different product from the original Manhunt. The raters evaluated the submission for Manhunt 2 and determined that the AO rating was the appropriate rating assignment. Per our statement from 6/20, it would be inappropriate to comment further at this time.
ManaByte said:
Damn
I had really hoped Reggie would step up and try to help the situation. Considering he was the one who asked Take Two for a "Mature" game to help break the "kiddy" image. Now we get Manhunt 2 which breaks it into so many pieces and he's just go nna sit back and let it die.
plagiarize
Banned
kotaku should have asked them why they rerated Oblivion on the 360. that didn't have any 'hidden' content like the PC version or like san andreas, yet they bumped its rating up to an M while trying to draw all content to the hidden nudity in the PC version.
Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft may not realise it, but they're adding to the stigma around the AO rating by refusing to license them for the console.
Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft may not realise it, but they're adding to the stigma around the AO rating by refusing to license them for the console.