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Manhunt 2 won't be released in UK
- Thread starter Nathan Barley
- Start date
AltogetherAndrews
Member
Jokeropia said:
The game was still banned though, wasn't it? I don't know how Sweden works in this respect these days which is the reason I ask, but the powers that were used to be quite happy to outright ban content that showcased excessive violence.
Sule said:
A game is a work that has does not have an definitive length, unlike a film or DVD. You can't ever fully play a game as the experience each time can be different.
To add though here is the BBFC search result for Manhunt 2
http://www.bbfc.co.uk/website/Class...5f0b91fb15d5b748802572ff003be984?OpenDocument
You will notice a complete playthrough is included along with what looks like all the cutscenes and other things called rendered sequences. Submissions to the BBFC have to be very comprehensive, and a few hours are also spent playing in addition. The reference to cheats is so gameplay through out the game can be sampled. It wouldn't be acceptable to just play the first three levels.
It wasn't banned, no. The Attorney General tried to ban it (after it had already been sold in the stores for quite a while) by prosecuting the distributor, but as mentioned, the case was dismissed by the court.AltogetherAndrews said:
Sweden was quite censorship happy during the 80s, but it gradually decreased since and in 1996 it was officially decided that no movies should ever be edited or banned, only given age limits. The ruling in the abovementioned Postal case determined that the same standard applies to videogames.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
I agree, people that enjoyed the Bourne Identity movie are sick ****s.Drakken said:
TheMissingNin
Member
Damn, this being banned makes me want it MOAR.
Rise up my oppressed gamer comrades and Import! Import as if your life depended on it!
P.s. what's with the freaking Orange adverts that keep popping my screen back up to them when I'm lower down the screen? that's really annoying.
EDIT: Go forth and make "I'm in your Country, Banning your games" photoshops!
Rise up my oppressed gamer comrades and Import! Import as if your life depended on it!
P.s. what's with the freaking Orange adverts that keep popping my screen back up to them when I'm lower down the screen? that's really annoying.
EDIT: Go forth and make "I'm in your Country, Banning your games" photoshops!
plagiarize
Banned
you don't get to make that judgment.Drakken said:
that you find a game outrageous is no grounds for preventing the people that want to play it from doing so.
AltogetherAndrews
Member
plagiarize said:
What makes you so confident that no one should act as a governor of content? Is there anything in for example US society, which is relatively free of restraints and restrictions, that suggests that the hands-off method is the ultimately correct method of controlling content? I'm not saying I disagree with you, but it seems to me as if the absolute confidence is not necessarily grounded in any real observations of benefits to society. The success of the hands-off method is largely dependent on the responsibility of the content providers, and I'm not convinced content providers in this medium are mature enough to be awarded this freedom.
AndyMoogle
Member
There hasn't been anything banned in Sweden since the 80s. And they have released all those movies unedited since then anyway. Or maybe Postal 2 got banned. Hm, have to look that up. No one had a problem with Manhunt being released.AltogetherAndrews said:
Ok that answers that question. So nothing has been banned since the 80s afaik.Jokeropia said:
AltogetherAndrews
Member
Jokeropia said:
Gotcha. Yeah, I remember it being quite difficult to procure certain movie titles in Sweden back in the day.
CreatureX3
Member
I had no intention of buying this game for my Wii, but now that someone has banned this game in their country, I'm seriously thinking of buying it when it's released here in the U.S. as my own form of small protest. 
the reply to my anti censorship email to the BBFC
Pretty much a fob off,
I urge you also to express your consern if you also are a UK resident & against media censorship.
I have also emailed my local MP and councilor, remember don't be sheep they work for us make your voices heard if you object to this.
Email:
Complaint to BBFC: contact_the_bbfc@bbfc.co.uk
& your local MP and councilman (easily googleable) they work for US!
Pretty much a fob off,
I urge you also to express your consern if you also are a UK resident & against media censorship.
I have also emailed my local MP and councilor, remember don't be sheep they work for us make your voices heard if you object to this.
Email:
Complaint to BBFC: contact_the_bbfc@bbfc.co.uk
& your local MP and councilman (easily googleable) they work for US!
Frankfurter
Member
Hammer24 said:
USK will review it, but refuse to give a rating. Than the whole thing goes to the BPJM and they'll probably say that it should be banned, but that'll take some time (a court will have to decide that).
plagiarize
Banned
films in the US are not censored by any law. the rating system is entirely optional, just as it is entirely up any cinema to decide whether or not to show unrated or NC-17 rated films.AltogetherAndrews said:
content is controlled by what people are willing to go see, and by what businesses are willing to be associated with, without any body needing government issued powers.
and the US isn't the only country... Sweden for example currently allows anything in a film or videogame, and despite the criticisms that could be leveled at the US as a society, i doubt anyone would raise the same criticisms about Sweden. from your posts i'm getting the sense you live in sweden. do you think your country would be better with censorship?
when it comes to entertainment, i don't think the standard should be 'you can only have what we say is safe' but 'you can have anything until we prove it isn't safe.'
censorship isn't pro society. quite the opposite.
what good has come of censorship in the past? i can easily show you the harm it did by pointing to all the ideas and art that were repressed in the past.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Uhh...because the content is what is being rated, and the content in both versions is identical?Stocka said:
Cosmonaut X
Member
Stocka said:
Because the game has been refused classification based on content, not control schemes?
Gowans007 said:
Rockstar have six weeks in which they can appeal to the VAC which is an independent body that arbitrates in such circumstances. As their decision is legally binding and both sides, if an appeal is requested, will need to prepare their cases there probably isn't much either side can say publically until any appeal is over or the six weeks have passed.
If Rockstar do appeal, I wouldn't be suprised to see them simply confirm that and make no further public comment until that is over. In which case, I wouldn't take any impressions of being "fobbed off" too much to heart at this stage. You got a reply from a public organisation on a delicate matter in a number of hours. That's better going than most.
one of two reasons:Stocka said:
1. it really is that bad
2. they dont want to make a political blunder by damning Nintendo's Wii. NOE certainly would have some unkind words to say to the ratings board for defamination of their console from a single 3rd party game. can someone say "damage control?
Segata Sanshiro said:
Haha. This isn't a matter of me saying that anyone who doesn't agree with my taste in movies or games is messed up (that would be silly, of course). This is a matter of objective truth, in my mind. That someone would want to play a game in which they brutally kill people over and over (repeatedly stabbing someone in the eye with a pen, for instance) is sick. It's demented. But wait, it's just a video game, so that makes it OK.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
And now, you get sorted into the 'crazy' pile.doomed1 said:
No see, I said Bourne Identity because in that movie Matt Damon kills a man with a pen in a fashion as you've described. So who would want to see a movie with that in it? They must be pretty sick if they do!Drakken said:Haha. This isn't a matter of me saying that anyone who doesn't agree with my taste in movies or games is messed up (that would be silly, of course). This is a matter of objective truth, in my mind. That someone would want to play a game in which they brutally kill people over and over (repeatedly stabbing someone in the eye with a pen, for instance) is sick. But wait, it's not real life, so that makes it OK.
Cosmonaut X
Member
doomed1 said:
WTF? The BBFC are not going to hold off rejecting a game just because they might be "damning Nintendo's Wii".
If you're going to look for a possible political angle, look to the tabloid fury over Manhunt, and consider whether that had some influence on their decision. I think it unlikely, but it's a far less ludicrous proposal than the BBFC backing down in the face of NoE (NoE! :lol )
I see the point you're making, but I think you're being a little disingenuous in comparing that scene in the Bourne Identity with what sounds like a far, far more graphic, extended and lingering scene in Manhunt 2. They're both still violent scenes, but there is - to my mind, anyway - a substantial difference between a scene that is brief & in context and Manhunt's lingering, explicit kill cutscenes that seem, frankly, intended for titillation more than anything else.
I'm not going to support the refusal of the BBFC to classify the game - appropriately rated I think the game should be available - but it is, based on what I have seen & read of it and what I've experienced of Manhunt, a hard game to defend. The original had - for me, anyway - no real redeeming features. It was an ugly, brutal game with a thin story, an unlikeable lead, an unpleasant fascination with long, drawn-out death scenes and no real point to make. Like the Face of Death series, or some of the more unpleasant cannibal flicks, I can't say it was something I was delighted to see on sale, but I wouldn't have wanted it banned.
Segata Sanshiro said:
If I remember correctly, he was being detained and that was his only available weapon. He stabbed the guard and then got out of there. That was just a few seconds of the whole movie; it certainly wasn't the focus of it. That's much different than this, where the game is filled with gratuitous violent killings (that's basically the point of the game), with the player in one instance stabbing someone in the eye with a pen and then "kicking them to the ground and repeatedly shoving the weapon in his face until it's a bloody pulp." A bit different from what you mentioned.
Rabid Wolverine
Member
Crock of ****ing shit.
US PSP version for me it is then.
US PSP version for me it is then.
fly high ~ayunite~
Member
Who's angry now?
Rabid Wolverine
Member
From eurogamer:
After the Appeal was Carmageddon edited or still uncut in the UK?
Hope rockstar appeals this.
After the Appeal was Carmageddon edited or still uncut in the UK?
Hope rockstar appeals this.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
So.. one of the only mature wii exclusive game that kicks ass gets busted via rating..
*sigh*
*sigh*
test_account
XP-39C²
Rabid Wolverine said:
As mentioned above, it was edited with zombies instead of humans and the blood was green instead of red. But according to IMDB it was re-released uncut later on with age 18+ certificate. According to Wikipedia the first version with zombies had age 15+ certificate.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0395493/alternateversions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmageddon
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Smart move releaseing the title after Resident Evil 4 hits.
Plus, this is good publicity for the American release.
It doesn't appear to be a big marketing push behind the title (for obvious reasons), so this is huge - and free - PR for the game release in NA.
How did the first one sell?
I can see this doing fairly well, if word gets out more.
Plus, this is good publicity for the American release.
It doesn't appear to be a big marketing push behind the title (for obvious reasons), so this is huge - and free - PR for the game release in NA.
How did the first one sell?
I can see this doing fairly well, if word gets out more.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
To the folks that responded to the Bourne thing (not to marginalize each individual comment, but a few responded and I wanted to scoop you all up at once): Do you see that at this point, what you are doing is splitting hairs? Why is it worse in Manhunt that a man kills another man with a pen than it is in Bourne? Why does it matter that it was self-defense or how long it took to do it? What are we really worried about here?
The problem with censorship is that you are placing arbitrary lines down. Why is the line different for games than it is for movies? Why is the line different for bloody violence compared to bloodless violence? And most importantly, where is the research to back these different lines, if they do exist?
Once you start laying down arbitrary lines with no legitimate reasoning beyond hunches and superstitions, it can quickly become a slippery slope. That's why I vehemently oppose this kind of censorship, even though I vehemently oppose the type of nose-tweaking Rockstar engages in. I wish with all my heart that Rockstar wouldn't do it, but once they've cast the die, I will defend their right to carry through, because I firmly believe that if we give an inch, the mile will be taken sooner or later.
The problem with censorship is that you are placing arbitrary lines down. Why is the line different for games than it is for movies? Why is the line different for bloody violence compared to bloodless violence? And most importantly, where is the research to back these different lines, if they do exist?
Once you start laying down arbitrary lines with no legitimate reasoning beyond hunches and superstitions, it can quickly become a slippery slope. That's why I vehemently oppose this kind of censorship, even though I vehemently oppose the type of nose-tweaking Rockstar engages in. I wish with all my heart that Rockstar wouldn't do it, but once they've cast the die, I will defend their right to carry through, because I firmly believe that if we give an inch, the mile will be taken sooner or later.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
No irish version either.
[UPDATE] The Irish Film Censor's Office has also announced that the game has been banned in the Republic of Ireland. In a statement, the board gave its reasoning as follows, "IFCO recognizes that in certain films, DVDs and video games, strong graphic violence may be a justifiable element within the overall context of the work. However, in the case of Manhunt 2, IFCO believes that there is no such context, and the level of gross, unrelenting and gratuitous violence is unacceptable."
GS
[UPDATE] The Irish Film Censor's Office has also announced that the game has been banned in the Republic of Ireland. In a statement, the board gave its reasoning as follows, "IFCO recognizes that in certain films, DVDs and video games, strong graphic violence may be a justifiable element within the overall context of the work. However, in the case of Manhunt 2, IFCO believes that there is no such context, and the level of gross, unrelenting and gratuitous violence is unacceptable."
GS
Rabid Wolverine
Member
JunoTaksumi said:
wow :lol
Cant believe all these pal countries are banning it. New Zealand im counting on you guys not to!
We Australians gave you excellent GTA Sales.
This kind of all ties in nicely into my arguments about pricing yesterday. If Wii games were priced properly for adults (more than the kiddie bargain bin pricing now), you wouldn't have this issue. Forget ratings, no one pays attention to those. Pricing is something you have to pay attention to. If Wii ever wants to drop the kiddie image and attain real success, they're going to have to have some serious discussions about this.
For now though it will be nothing but controversy (wait until it hits the U.S.) because Wii+Cheap=Kiddie.
For now though it will be nothing but controversy (wait until it hits the U.S.) because Wii+Cheap=Kiddie.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Yes, there was certainly no controversy back when Mortal Kombat came out and games were even more expensive. Your theory is dumb, hoss.AstroLad said: