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Manhunt 2 won't be released in UK

AstroLad said:
This kind of all ties in nicely into my arguments about pricing yesterday. If Wii games were priced properly for adults (more than the kiddie bargain bin pricing now), you wouldn't have this issue. Forget ratings, no one pays attention to those. Pricing is something you have to pay attention to. If Wii ever wants to drop the kiddie image and attain real success, they're going to have to have some serious discussions about this.

For now though it will be nothing but controversy (wait until it hits the U.S.) because Wii+Cheap=Kiddie.

What the hell? "Priced properly for adults"? Most Wii games are priced well outside of the "bargain bin pricing" range, and I'm struggling to see how adding another $10 or the equivalent on to their price would have any effect on the perception (real or not) that it's a kid's console.

And since when has the Wii had a "kiddie" image? A "family-friendly" image, perhaps (though even that is arguable IMO).
 
Cosmonaut X said:
What the hell? "Priced properly for adults"? Most Wii games are priced well outside of the "bargain bin pricing" range, and I'm struggling to see how adding another $10 or the equivalent on to their price would have any effect on the perception (real or not) that it's a kid's console.

And since when has the Wii had a "kiddie" image? A "family-friendly" image, perhaps (though even that is arguable IMO).
Just...don't. I probably shouldn't have, even. When you see a theory that at face value screams "Idiot", there's usually a reason for that.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
Segata Sanshiro said:
Yes, there was certainly no controversy back when Mortal Kombat came out and games were even more expensive. Your theory is dumb, hoss.

It was still too cheap and back then games had an even kiddier image so there was much more of a hurdle to overcome. It's a sliding scale. I'm not going to sit here and say that a $100 price tag will guarantee that a game like Manhunt is treated with the maturity deserved or that it will finally pull gaming out of its permanent Kiddie Era. You could sell almost any Wii game for even $120 and it would still probably not be enough, but price is an important factor. Until publishers get this (like some have started to), video gaming will forever be eating at the kid's table along with action figures and cartoons while the grown-up table of movies, books, and music pretty much laughs at all of them.
 

Branduil

Member
AstroLad said:
This kind of all ties in nicely into my arguments about pricing yesterday. If Wii games were priced properly for adults (more than the kiddie bargain bin pricing now), you wouldn't have this issue. Forget ratings, no one pays attention to those. Pricing is something you have to pay attention to. If Wii ever wants to drop the kiddie image and attain real success, they're going to have to have some serious discussions about this.

For now though it will be nothing but controversy (wait until it hits the U.S.) because Wii+Cheap=Kiddie.

I seriously hope this is a joke post.
 
Segata Sanshiro said:
Just...don't. I probably shouldn't have, even. When you see a theory that at face value screams "Idiot", there's usually a reason for that.

Yeah, probably :) Difficult not to respond when you read nonsense like this, though:

price is an important factor. Until publishers get this (like some have started to), video gaming will forever be eating at the kid's table along with action figures and cartoons while the grown-up table of movies, books, and music pretty much laughs at all of them.
 

ksamedi

Member
AstroLad said:
It was still too cheap and back then games had an even kiddier image so there was much more of a hurdle to overcome. It's a sliding scale. I'm not going to sit here and say that a $100 price tag will guarantee that a game like Manhunt is treated with the maturity deserved or that it will finally pull gaming out of its permanent Kiddie Era. You could sell almost any Wii game for even $120 and it would still probably not be enough, but price is an important factor. Until publishers get this (like some have started to), video gaming will forever be eating at the kid's table along with action figures and cartoons while the grown-up table of movies, books, and music pretty much laughs at all of them.

WTF?
 

mcgarrett

Member
AstroLad said:
I'm not going to sit here and say that a $100 price tag will guarantee that a game like Manhunt is treated with the maturity deserved or that it will finally pull gaming out of its permanent Kiddie Era.
The only thing that's going to change that is the passage of time -- we need more people in positions of power who have been exposed to gaming in one form or another. (oh, that and games like WiiSports and Brain Age that appeal to the general audiences who finds sci-fi shooters nerdy)
 

Superfrog

Member
Hammer24 said:
How would this be possible? AFAIK a game can´t go on sale before it has been reviewed by the USK?

No, practically no German instance can prohibit a game or movie from being released. Therefore it's up to the publisher to release a game without USK rating. This alone only means that it must not be sold to persons under the age of 18.

Once an unrated game (due to violence reasons etc.) is available, a government authority called BPjM can start its process to "index" it. This doesn't equal a ban, the game may still be bought on inquiry by anyone of full age. However, the game has to be removed from store shelves and advertising/public showing is not allowed anymore.

There's also the possibility that a game gets indeed banned in Germany. This may only happen if the game's content is illegal in some form or offends human rights. Bans actually happen very rarely in Germany. Manhunt 1 got banned, though - Manhunt 2 will also be banned for sure. BUT you will be able to buy it for a limited time after release.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
mcgarrett said:
The only thing that's going to change that is the passage of time. (oh, and games like WiiSports and Brain Age that appeal to the average Joe who finds sci-fi shooters nerdy)

Um, both of those games are very, very kiddie. I'm not saying they are bad games (which is why some Nintendo fans may be getting riled up at this reasonable argument), but just talking about their nature and what they do overall for the perception of gaming. I am arguing for moving gaming into a more sophisticated era, which *shudder* means more sophisticated pricing to go along with it. You can't actually think that passivity will accomplish this. It certainly hasn't worked elsewhere.

Some of you are apparently happy forever having to hide your consoles and games when people come over, but I'm actually pressing for meaningful change here.
 

Wii too

Neo Member
As an American who has never been to Europe, I would ask for some clarification on something from those who actually do live in the UK/Europe:

Isn't nudity and profanity, even on television, print ads, etc. not considered "obscene" as it is here in America? It seems that way from the articles and accounts of friends that have been there. That being assumed, why is it that they are so relaxed about sex but have this moral code for video games?

Conversely, and rhetorically, why are American's so uptight with profanity and especially sex, while videogames are left to themselves?
 

Neo C.

Member
AstroLad said:
I am arguing for moving gaming into a more sophisticated era, which *shudder* means more sophisticated pricing to go along with it.
So: 3'000$ each game = games are art.
50$ each game = crap.

I love how easy we can declare games as art just by rising their prices.
 

Branduil

Member
AstroLad said:
Um, both of those games are very, very kiddie. I'm not saying they are bad games (which is why some Nintendo fans may be getting riled up at this reasonable argument), but just talking about their nature and what they do overall for the perception of gaming. I am arguing for moving gaming into a more sophisticated era, which *shudder* means more sophisticated pricing to go along with it. You can't actually think that passivity will accomplish this. It certainly hasn't worked elsewhere.

Some of you are apparently happy forever having to hide your consoles and games when people come over, but I'm actually pressing for meaningful change here.

No, you're pressing for some kind of "overpaying for games makes you sophisticated" tag.
 

Superfrog

Member
Wii too said:
As an American who has never been to Europe, I would ask for some clarification on something from those who actually do live in the UK/Europe:

Isn't nudity and profanity, even on television, print ads, etc. not considered "obscene" as it is here in America? It seems that way from the articles and accounts of friends that have been there.
That's right, nudity itself is indeed not considered "obscene" in most countries of Europe. Only hardcore porn is, but even this is handled very relaxed in some countries (for example in Danmark or the Netherlands). Usual nudity like bare breasts or even full-frontal nudity isn't considered to be "youth endangering" or "obscene" anymore.

That being assumed, why is it that they are so relaxed about sex but have this moral code for video games?
In regards of nudity/sex, I consider the "European behaviour" normal. The "moral code" for video games (only regarding violence, not nudity) is mainly present in Germany alone. I guess it's because of WWII and the consequential, omnipresent responsibility not to allow anything bad to happen again. In most of the other European countries, violence censorship affecting video games almost doesn't exist. The UK ban of Manhunt 2 is an exception (so far).

Conversely, and rhetorically, why are American's so uptight with profanity and especially sex, while videogames are left to themselves?
Probably because of the prude pilgrims background/heritage? I have no clue, you tell me. ;)
 

mcgarrett

Member
AstroLad said:
I am arguing for moving gaming into a more sophisticated era, which *shudder* means more sophisticated pricing to go along with it.
What are some games that you would consider "sophisticated?"

And I still don't see the correlation between sophistication and price... does 2001: A Space Odyssey set you back any more than a copy of SpaceBalls?
 

Natsume

Member
Wii too said:
As an American who has never been to Europe, I would ask for some clarification on something from those who actually do live in the UK/Europe:

Isn't nudity and profanity, even on television, print ads, etc. not considered "obscene" as it is here in America? It seems that way from the articles and accounts of friends that have been there. That being assumed, why is it that they are so relaxed about sex but have this moral code for video games?

Conversely, and rhetorically, why are American's so uptight with profanity and especially sex, while videogames are left to themselves?

In Europe we would rather our kids wanked than killed.
 

Soulhouf

Member
Android18a said:
*Stomping on turtles (murder)
*Digestion of mushrooms and other wild flora encouraged (drugs)
*He's Italian (ish), which says a lot here :p (filth)
*Stealing coins, tearing down flags, busting into castles (theft, criminal damage, illegal entry)

Super Mario should be an 18.
:lol
 

Geek

Ninny Prancer
ComputerNerd said:
Don't you guys love socialist policies?

Yeah, I say let the market decide. Oh wait...

It’s Official: Manhunt 2 Rated Adults Only by ESRB

This just in from Take Two Interactive, publisher of the embattled Manhunt 2:

The ESRB has issued an initial rating of AO (Adults Only) for Manhunt 2.

We believe the process of rating videogames is to help people make informed entertainment choices and not to limit them.

Manhunt 2 was created for mature audiences and we strongly believe it should receive an M (Mature) rating, aligning it with similar content created in other forms of media. We are exploring our options with regard to the rating of Manhunt 2.

Awww....

http://gamepolitics.com/2007/06/19/breaking-manhunt-2-rated-adults-only-by-esrb/
 

Geek

Ninny Prancer
Maybe mods should consider a thread title update.

"Manhunt 2 won't be released in UK, Wal-Mart, Target, Other locations TBD"
 

Ranger X

Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
If the game gets Wal-marted, I'd expect Gamestop to push it even harder, because that will mean more of the sweet pie is theirs for the eating.

That must be why they followed Wallmart in the removal of GTASA...
 
Most likely, this means an 11th-hour delay of at least a few months to tone down some of the most gruesome elements. Like Wiimote castration.

Also, would Nintendo and SCEA even approve an AO-rated game? It's never happened before, to my knowledge.
 

Ranger X

Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
I don't expect this game to reach "Hot Coffee" levels of infamy.

Anyways i'll have to go pre-order this ASAP at some independant store 'cause i feel this shit is only beginning.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
Father_Brain said:
Most likely, this means an 11th-hour delay of at least a few months to tone down some of the most gruesome elements. Like Wiimote castration.

Also, would Nintendo and SCEA even approve an AO-rated game? It's never happened before, to my knowledge.

That would be unfortunate but 'We are exploring our options with regard to the rating of Manhunt 2' leads me to believe it's possible.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
Segata Sanshiro said:
I don't expect this game to reach "Hot Coffee" levels of infamy.

If the game is released as described, I think it will far exceed "Hot Coffee" levels of controversy, possibly even GTA. The Wii control scheme just opens up a whole new level that pundits will jump on.
 

DrLazy

Member
According to ESRB, games rated "Adults Only" have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity.

Let's break that down:

- Should only be played by persons 18 years and older.
- Prolonged scenes of intense violence.

Intense Violence is further defined thusly: Graphic and realistic-looking depictions of physical conflict. May involve extreme and/or realistic blood, gore, weapons and depictions of human injury and death

Should people under the age of 18 really be playing Manhunt 2? Are there prolonged scenes of intense violence. I don't know, but judging from the previews I've read, it sure seems likely. From 1up:

Gouging an enemy's eyeballs with a glass shard, gutting him with a sickle, sucking the life outta him with a plastic bag -- Manhunt's sadistic executions sure did get people's attention. Unfortunately, those gruesome acts also helped get the original game banned in some countries. Lesson learned, right? Pfft -- Rockstar has only cranked up the violence dial for the sequel. And as much as we'd like to say that the gore doesn't impress us (ya know, that'd be the politically correct thing), we couldn't help but want to see more. Some of the new tricks in this game include plunging a syringe into an enemy's heart, or chopping off his head with an ax and then tossing it to distract others in the area. Yet it's the wire cutters that win the prize here: If you perform a level-three execution ( just like in the last Manhunt, the longer you wait before attacking, the more grotesque the death blow) with this weapon, you'll reach underneath the enemy to grab on to his family jewels, rip 'em off, and then stick the wire cutters into his back and tear out the spinal cord.

The game's stylish killings don't stop there; Manhunt 2 will also introduce both gun and environmental executions to the fray. "Environmental executions increase the interactivity within the game and allow you to take advantage of objects found throughout the area," says Washbrook. We especially enjoyed the scene where you strangle a foe with a telephone wire. Oh, and that other one where he lit up like a tiki torch after a face full of fuse box.

That sure sounds like prolonged intense violence to me. This game deserves an adult rating. It should not be banned. It should recieve a correct rating, and the rating should be enforced. Simple.

Other games rated AO: Fahrenheit: Indigo Prophecy Director's Cut: PC CD ROM, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, Thrill Kill for PSone, and various Playboy, Leisure Suit Larry and porn games.
 

DSWii60

Member
Rockstar have issued a statement:

http://www.*******.com/2007/06/19/rockstar-we-emphatically-disagree-with-uks-manhunt-2-ban/

Banned website = ***stiq

Rockstar said:
"We are disappointed with the recent decision by the British Board of Film Classification to refuse classification of Manhunt 2. While we respect the authority of the classification board and will abide by the rules, we emphatically disagree with this particular decision."

"Manhunt 2 is an entertainment experience for fans of psychological thrillers and horror. The subject matter of this game is in line with other mainstream entertainment choices for adult consumers."

"We respect those who have different opinions about the horror genre and video games as a whole, but we hope they will also consider the opinions of the adult gamers for whom this product is intended. We believe all products should be rated to allow the public to make informed choices about the media and art they wish to consume. The stories in modern video games are as diverse as the stories in books, film and television. The adult consumers who would play this game fully understand that it is fictional interactive entertainment and nothing more."

Edit: Here's another site with the info:

http://computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=166251
 
DrLazy said:
According to ESRB, games rated "Adults Only" have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity.

Let's break that down:

- Should only be played by persons 18 years and older.
- Prolonged scenes of intense violence.

Intense Violence is further defined thusly: Graphic and realistic-looking depictions of physical conflict. May involve extreme and/or realistic blood, gore, weapons and depictions of human injury and death

Should people under the age of 18 really be playing Manhunt 2? Are there prolonged scenes of intense violence. I don't know, but judging from the previews I've read, it sure seems likely. From 1up:



That sure sounds like prolonged intense violence to me. This game deserves an adult rating. It should not be banned. It should recieve a correct rating, and the rating should be enforced. Simple.

Other games rated AO: Fahrenheit: Indigo Prophecy Director's Cut: PC CD ROM, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, Thrill Kill for PSone, and various Playboy, Leisure Suit Larry and porn games.
I believe the key word is "prolonged." The violence may be intense, but they come in short bursts that rarely last more then a few seconds.

Also, even if the game "only" got an M rating, that's still 17+, a year of difference.
 

Superfrog

Member
1UP said:
If you perform a level-three execution with [wire cutter], you'll reach underneath the enemy to grab on to his family jewels, rip 'em off, and then stick the wire cutters into his back and tear out the spinal cord.

Seriously, wtf??

I'm strictly against censorship, but what the hell is wrong with Take Two to tolerate this kind of content in their games?! If this was comedic zombie splatter like Braindead (the movie) or Dead Rising I wouldn't mind at all, but Manhunt 2's sadistic kills are staged like a realistic snuff video. Is this really necessary? I don't think so.

Manhunt 2 ban ftw! Not to keep this game away from any adult but to teach Take Two a lesson.
 
1549583.jpg


"the first game to be banned in 10 years"
 

Stop It

Perfectly able to grasp the inherent value of the fishing game.
AstroLad said:
If the game is released as described, I think it will far exceed "Hot Coffee" levels of controversy, possibly even GTA. The Wii control scheme just opens up a whole new level that pundits will jump on.

DO you know whats funny, in the UK the entire "hot coffee" controversy didn't really pan out, mainly because GTA:SA was already an 18, and the sexual content really didn't come close to the violence in terms of the games rating anyway, that was a fuss over nothing.
 
Isn't nudity and profanity, even on television, print ads, etc. not considered "obscene" as it is here in America? It seems that way from the articles and accounts of friends that have been there. That being assumed, why is it that they are so relaxed about sex but have this moral code for video games?

When America suffers its next Colombine and asks itself why, consider the European vs American attitudes over violence and sex.
 
Rockstar and Take-2 knew what kind of game they were doing, they knew this would be AO for crying out loud. Specially after the whole Hot-Coffe fiasco.
 

M3wThr33

Banned
Prime crotch said:
Rockstar and Take-2 knew what kind of game they were doing, they knew this would be AO for crying out loud. Specially after the whole Hot-Coffe fiasco.

Except that it's launching for the PS2/PSP and Wii. It's not exactly going to the top-of-the-line crowd. It needed some kind of publicity.
 

syfodyas

Banned
As far as I understand, the BBFC have not actually BANNED Manhunt 2, nor do they have the powers to. They have simply refused to give Manhunt 2 a rating.
However im not sure, but I think all games that are sold in the UK HAVE to have a rating, and if they dont, they cannot be released/go on sale..
 
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