RyougaSaotome
Member
1up and Destructoid pretty much touch on the same issues. The only major difference is the score itself really.
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Mario Kart 7 Review Thread: First Reviews In
- Thread starter pramath
- Start date
lordfroakie
Member
lazybones18
Banned
dr3upmushroom
Banned
For kart racers? Sim racers? Arcadey? A mix between the two like some of the Need for Speed games? There's a ton of very different games that fall under the category "racing" that cater to many different play styles. Saying that "racing games don't need to mix it up" isn't saying much.
And anyway it doesn't change how that reviewer feels about the game, so I'm not sure how the review is "wrong."
I'd love to be proved wrong but based on what I've seen of the game I'd be willing to bet a lot that MK7 is going to pull a Twilight Princess, meaning "low" review scores that are attacked initially by fans but then agreed with by most people in retrospect.
He's wrong because he says that other similar games would get flack, but Mario Kart won't. That's just not true. Racing game sequels that just polish what's already there get good reviews, if the series is well-liked.
I don't know what you mean with your last paragraph. This game is a known quantity.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
The Iwata laughs with EAD and Retro got me hyped, bring it on Nintendo
ShineALight
Member
Any of us should be wary of seriously discussing a Jim Sterling review. He's the perhaps the farthest thing from a legitimate critic in the whole field of video game reviewing, and this latest review falls perfectly in line with his many attempts to come across as some sort of confrontational journalist rock star. Deep down I believe that even he knows that quality is the last thing considered when he assigns a score to a game, fashions a headline, or hits submit on any article, period. He's attention-starved, and his "career" is a way for him to feed that need for attention, and nothing more.
I'm still torn on whether to get this. 1up's lukewarm reception doesn't help me. I'm sure I'll enjoy it, but I've spent so much on games recently.
My main motivation is that I might pick up some ghost racers on my train journey home for Christmas. On the other hand, I know only one other person IRL with a 3DS, and she doesn't like Mario Kart, so I won't be able to play multiplayer.
At least online is 8 players.
My main motivation is that I might pick up some ghost racers on my train journey home for Christmas. On the other hand, I know only one other person IRL with a 3DS, and she doesn't like Mario Kart, so I won't be able to play multiplayer.
At least online is 8 players.
Thunderbear
Mawio Gawaxy iz da Wheeson hee pways games
I'm with Destructoid... I was a die-hard Mario Kart fanatic on the snes, using the heaviest drivers to get some pretty fast scores. I would play hour after hour shaving off those precious tenths of a second.
But I've grown really bored of the series over the years and I don't see anything new in the videos that will make me want to play this. I'd much rather play something like Mod Nation racers (not the PSP version) that offers something new to the kart genre even if you can't beat Nintendo with their classic characters.
I'm glad to see at least a few sites are calling out the repetition in some of Nintendo's games lately. 3D Mario Land looks a lot better to me and Galaxy was a great step forward for that series (not enough for me to get a Wii though..).
Anyway, if people enjoy it then that's fine by me. It's just my opinion that it's stagnant and I agree with Destructoid's summary.
But I've grown really bored of the series over the years and I don't see anything new in the videos that will make me want to play this. I'd much rather play something like Mod Nation racers (not the PSP version) that offers something new to the kart genre even if you can't beat Nintendo with their classic characters.
I'm glad to see at least a few sites are calling out the repetition in some of Nintendo's games lately. 3D Mario Land looks a lot better to me and Galaxy was a great step forward for that series (not enough for me to get a Wii though..).
Anyway, if people enjoy it then that's fine by me. It's just my opinion that it's stagnant and I agree with Destructoid's summary.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
What do you mean it's a known quantity?
And you're generalizing to a ridiculous degree with your racing game nonsense. Maybe that's true of a very select top tier of racing games, but look at Need for Speed. There's multiple lines of that series to keep it fresh, and while you're browsing notice that the games in the series don't just get better scores for polishing the same concepts. Look at games like Blur and Split Second that try to mix stuff up and succeed to various degrees.
Look at Burnout. Many people still consider 3 the best in the series. Many people love Paradise, which turned the game into an open-world thing instead of just polishing what was already there. Many people don't like it.
It seems like you looked at the Gran Turismo series, didn't notice anything too different between entries and decided that racing games as a whole never do anything but polish their core concepts and get great reviews based on that one (flawed) observation.
And even if you can pick out specific titles that don't change up much, MK is on its 7th iteration. I don't think it's unreasonable for some people to want more out of it than new tracks and a couple new items. After all, the old games are still there if you want to play them.
Actually, I was thinking about Dirt, and GT, and rally games, and formula 1 games, and motorcross games, ATV games, arcade or simulation.
There are new gameplay elements and modes in this game, you know. The core is the same, but it's got as many new elements as most sequels. I'm not saying I'd be adverse to bigger changes, I'm just saying the reviewer was factually wrong about this point.
It's a known quantity as in people know whether they'll like it or not. There won't be any backlash.
I predict this game gets the same response as MK:Wii - lots of vocal detractors, but a ton of people will still play and love the hell out of it. MK:Wii had some serious flaws, but it was still so much fun, blue shells and all. This game will feel like a retread, but still be very enjoyable.
I wonder though when nintendo is going to shake up the formula. I wouldn't be surprised if Wii U installments of classic franchises get massive changes due to the extra possibilities all that additional power affords. Then again, it's nintendo, so maybe not
Back on topic though, I've seen enough track footage to know that I want this game...badly
I wonder though when nintendo is going to shake up the formula. I wouldn't be surprised if Wii U installments of classic franchises get massive changes due to the extra possibilities all that additional power affords. Then again, it's nintendo, so maybe not
Back on topic though, I've seen enough track footage to know that I want this game...badly
I already ordered my copy of Mario Kart 7, but i still wish Nintendo would change the ganmeplay like they did with DoubleDash!! Such a great and underrated game, that sadly scared away Nintendo from ever doing something different with the series. [input Miyamotos fake quote about Zelda and that fan dont know what they want]
Even without change there are so many standards missing from the game: Story-Mode, Challenges (MKDSs challenges should be an standard for the series), different modes (for example a Party Mode which mixes Mario Party with Mario Kart) and a lot of options like in Smash Brothers.
Even without change there are so many standards missing from the game: Story-Mode, Challenges (MKDSs challenges should be an standard for the series), different modes (for example a Party Mode which mixes Mario Party with Mario Kart) and a lot of options like in Smash Brothers.
Double dash was terrible.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
I think there will be a backlash because people get themselves all hyped for a new game, then play it and realize it isn't the second coming. If people were realistic with their expectations then yeah, there probably wouldn't be a backlash, but this is NeoGAF, and Nintendo fans here and elsewhere will likely be a little more excited than your average person about a new MK.
You're still being extremely vague with your whole racing game thing. Did you not agree with my examples of series that definitely don't stick to small refinements and get universally praised for it? Because your first sentence may as well read "Actually I was thinking about every racing all the time everywhere."
I would argue that it really doesn't even matter what a huge majority of other racing games are doing anyway. I mean, comparing the people who are playing the one game you mention by name, Dirt, to Mario Kart fans is just a ridiculous comparison. People playing Dirt are a pretty niche crowd. Tons of people play Mario Kart and love it for tons of different reasons, and I think with that humongous, heterogeneous fanbase you get a lot more leeway as far as mixing stuff up goes.
Knew this was Sterling before I even clicked on the link.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
it really wasn't.
DS was the worst, because of that snaking shit just ruining online. Even then I played the shit out of it. My hands nearly fell off though.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
It's not really a problem if the games are still fun.
MK would be a hard to review game really, since even if it were literally the same exact game every time it came out with some new characters and tracks it would still be fun. How you score it basically just depends on how you value taking risks, messing with the formula, etc. I doubt anyone will claim that the game is actually poorly designed in any way. Even the Destructoid review, which people are already claiming is "trolling" over in the OT makes sure to mention that the game isn't bad, just bland.
m.i.s.
Banned
In the same boat, I'm glad I watched the videos because there's nothing there that would justify another Mario Kart purchase to me. It's the same old party game with courses that have now become levels rather than Mario World themed go-kart courses as in the SNES original. Selection of retro tracks is also a bit off: why put Wii tracks on there when Mario Kart Wii is so relatively new?
Good lord!!
dr3upmushroom
Banned
Boy howdy I sure hope this is a joke. How in the hell is anyone this defensive about a video game they have nothing to do with?
Obviously you love Mario Kart. Is it really not enough to enjoy the damn game and go about your life? You really have to put down people who don't love it as much as you?
ShineALight
Member
No, I know, it's awful the way the he is.
Don't take what I said as some weird defense for the game. I haven't played it, I have no opinion of it. I'm hoping to have a lot of fun with it, but I haven't played it. But I am someone that wishes better for video game criticism, and Jim Sterling offers pretty much the antithesis of what I'm hoping for. That's not me being reactionary about the game or anything but the image he's gone to great lengths to cultivate for himself.
To me this is a bewildering response. I spoke very little about the game, and only about my observations of Sterling's career. I'm not someone that follows a lot of people involved in video game coverage, and I only ever formed an opinion about Jim Sterling because I noticed his opinion is often an outlier and initially I was attracted to that, and thought he might be refreshingly honest. But the more I was exposed to his work, the more turned off I was, and I felt like we were diametrically opposed as to what merits good video game criticism, and what motivates his work is a need to shock and be a talking point, and not honesty.
As for Mario Kart, I haven't played a game in the series since 64. I'm excited for it, but I haven't played it. From any reviewer that hadn't cultivated such an off-putting pedigree, I might have been refreshed by a 5/10.
EDIT: Like I said, I was never trying to defend a game I'd never played. I was merely engaging in what I expected to be a rather drawn out conversation about a big game getting a lower-than-expected score. That's a recent trend I honestly like, I just don't trust the motives of this particular reviewer due to my experience observing this particular reviewer's career and means of presenting himself. I understand that a lot of posters on here are console warriors, often barely closeted if at all, but I also think there should be room on here to express distaste for a particular "critic" and not be mistaken for being that, especially when I didn't speak about the quality of the game at all, really.
Is it really completely legitimate if he just gave MW3 a 9.5? Is there not something more going on here? Is MK7 significantly less innovative within it's own brand than that game? How do you innovate and still maintain the kind of brand identity you need for such big franchises, anyway? Am I off my rocker for having distaste for this particular reviewer, but it's accepted by the last few posters to agree with him, without any of us having played the game? To be honest, I apologize for coming across as off-putting or defensive to anyone, like I said, I haven't played the game yet, and I won't be posting about it again until I have.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
Uh, there's people in this very thread who agree with him. Just because he doesn't feel the same way as you about a game you like doesn't mean he's shit and the industry deserves better.
Personally I think his review is pretty damn reasonable and he explains his position well. I'm not familiar with his other reviews but I don't see how you could have such a huge issue with the guy based on this one.
You know what, i dont care. It was different and thats what count right know. Mario Kart 8 (stupid idea to count the number of the series now) has to be something new and existing and Nintendo has the chance to do it. If people want to play a "normal" Mario Kart, they should play the 3DS Version! Want to play a new Mario Kart, play the WiiU Version!
Panic Nintendo is always the best Nintendo, so i hope they do it right this time.
RyougaSaotome
Member
Hits the nail on the head.
I will likely be buying this game come Thursday (yay Japan) regardless of the reviews because I know it'll be fun. But Sterling's completely legitimate argument is laid out well in that article.
Hell, I agree with most of what he's saying about stagnation etc, despite planning to purchase the game anyway.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
It seems to me like you have very weird expectation for reviewers. So you don't think that his MK review score sits well with his relatively high MW3 review? You honestly think each and every time he reviews a game he goes back to every one of his old reviews and thinks "Hmm, I like Mario Kart 7 less than Modern Warfare, but more than Skyrim, which I like less than Oblivion, which I like about the same as Batman, which I can't really decide how I feel about relative to Infamous" etc etc etc.
It's just dumb. I think a reasonable person would see the reviews and come to a conclusion like "Oh, he's less critical towards shooters, maybe he doesn't play as many as those," or maybe "Oh, that makes sense, there's 3 Modern Warfare games, and even though there's many CoD games, the series really didn't become super-popular until recently, so it's entirely possible that this guy has played more MK games than CoD games and feel that MK is getting stale" or even something like "Hmm, this are two completely unrelated games and it would be perfectly natural for someone to have completely different responses to them."
If your first reaction is "OMG, a 5 for Mario Kart! And a 9 for CoD!! Oh man, he's just trolling for hits!! Why must he bring the industry down, that terrible man!!" then yeah, you might be a little off your rocker, as you put it. Or going too far out of your way to be bothered by meaningless, inconsequential things, at the least.
Same here, even though I wish Nintendo would mess with MK more, I'm planning on buying the game the day it comes out.
I will say though that I never felt the need to own MK Wii (played a ton of multiplayer though), and this will be the last iteration I buy for a long time if the Wii U one is more of the same or if they release another on the 3DS (which seems unlikely) that doesn't offer much new.
Anasui Kishibe
Banned
so those agreeing with Sterling and calling the game repetitive and unexciting have actually played it?
I think the point would be that calling out Mario Kart for being a rehash and praising MW3 in the same breath is pretty freaking ironic.
Also this:
ShineALight
Member
It's not about him comparing any games specifically, it's just that I'd appreciate if he (and every other reviewer) would hold every game up to the same standards. But I'm something of an objectivist, and I guess some people might prefer his more subjective approach.
To me, reason is seeing the error in that his biggest issue with MK7 is lack of innovation, and also seeing that he's let the same "issue" slide with a franchise that's seen more entries across less time. I understand he may prefer one franchise or genre to the other, but that's just inconsistent and unfair. Not because I have a huge hard-on for MK7, but because he's either bothered by lack of innovation or he isn't, and picking and choosing when to play that card on a title-by-title basis is sloppy. And that's my issue with him and the basis of every post of mine is this thread thus far.
And there's no way to think it's reasonable that someone that gets paid to review games for a living would play more kart racers than shooters. Speaking of meaningless, inconsequential things...
To me, reason is seeing the error in that his biggest issue with MK7 is lack of innovation, and also seeing that he's let the same "issue" slide with a franchise that's seen more entries across less time. I understand he may prefer one franchise or genre to the other, but that's just inconsistent and unfair. Not because I have a huge hard-on for MK7, but because he's either bothered by lack of innovation or he isn't, and picking and choosing when to play that card on a title-by-title basis is sloppy. And that's my issue with him and the basis of every post of mine is this thread thus far.
And there's no way to think it's reasonable that someone that gets paid to review games for a living would play more kart racers than shooters. Speaking of meaningless, inconsequential things...
To be honest I don't know how much weight the "rehash" thing holds anyway. The Mario Kart franchise has only had 7 entries since the early 90's. The last Mario Kart came out 3 years ago, even if it feels like less to those that have continued playing it since. Its not a franchise that gets milked year on year, which in the current industry climate is actually quite rare for a franchise with this much selling power.
I don't know if MK7 introduces any truly fresh ideas, but im sure there's plenty still to love about it, and as someone who skipped both the DS and Wii versions im more than ready for some new Mario Kart.
I don't know if MK7 introduces any truly fresh ideas, but im sure there's plenty still to love about it, and as someone who skipped both the DS and Wii versions im more than ready for some new Mario Kart.
No, you're not causing a problem. You (like me) are one of the few not affected by review scores. As long as you enjoy the game that's all that matters.
UncleSporky
Member
I think this is all that needs to be said about the Destructoid review:
This is probably the single most widely criticized thing about Mario Kart DS.
Trolling as usual.
Sterling said:
This is probably the single most widely criticized thing about Mario Kart DS.
Trolling as usual.
Good find, that does discredit Sterling quite a bit.
SecretMoblin
Member
I don't have any issue with either the score or his critiques of the game; his gripes will probably be my gripes from the looks of it. I'm just not a fan of his writing style and the persona he's cultivated, that's all. It's just a matter of personal taste.
I'm too tired and too stupid to figure out if you're joking or not. :-/
I'm too tired and too stupid to figure out if you're joking or not. :-/
I hope you are.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Some good scores besides the joke one.
As far as the text in the reviews, not surprisingly, the game sounds great to me.
More of a refinement than anything drastic and I really didn't want a game as fun as this to undergo a major overhaul.
All I wanted was great course design and online and there you go...
As far as the text in the reviews, not surprisingly, the game sounds great to me.
More of a refinement than anything drastic and I really didn't want a game as fun as this to undergo a major overhaul.
All I wanted was great course design and online and there you go...
Hot Coldman
Banned
Sterling is the internet equivalent of that shitty friend you all had at school who knew about a fair amount about video games, but always came out with the dumbest shit.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
I was going to ask if he ever reviewed Modern Warfare or Madden.
How anyone can defend this hypocrisy is beyond me.
I liked the idea. If you didn't want to blow on the mic, you had the option of using select. -Even though abit slower-
I have to admit 60 fps 3D racing on the 3DS is appealing (especially when every 3DS game I've played to date is limited to 30 fps), but I'm not sure how much I will enjoy it.
I really did not enjoy Mario Kart DS at all. In fact, only the original SNES game captivates me and that's probably due to nostalgia. All of the 3D entries failed to capture my attention.
I really did not enjoy Mario Kart DS at all. In fact, only the original SNES game captivates me and that's probably due to nostalgia. All of the 3D entries failed to capture my attention.
AceBandage
Banned
I have to admit 60 fps 3D racing on the 3DS is appealing (especially when every 3DS game I've played to date is limited to 30 fps), but I'm not sure how much I will enjoy it.
I really did not enjoy Mario Kart DS at all. In fact, only the original SNES game captivates me and that's probably due to nostalgia. All of the 3D entries failed to capture my attention.
If you didn't like MKDS, then there's no way you'll like 7.
DS is probably the best Mario Kart game yet. (Haven't played 7 yet, though)
I have to admit 60 fps 3D racing on the 3DS is appealing (especially when every 3DS game I've played to date is limited to 30 fps), but I'm not sure how much I will enjoy it.
I really did not enjoy Mario Kart DS at all. In fact, only the original SNES game captivates me and that's probably due to nostalgia. All of the 3D entries failed to capture my attention.
it's not nostalgia. Mario Kart SNES and N64 were supremely better balanced than entries after that, where Nintendo thought "hey, we're not letting enough luck rule the day" and kept adding items that remove skill and reward lack of skill.
Mario Kart SNES and N64 are still the highlights of the franchise.
Also, Mario Kart SNES has the best battle mode by a country mile. Why do they keep fucking this mode up?