Eh, it's Jim Sterling being Jim Sterling. He pulls this kind of shit all the time. He loves being the outlier because he knows he'll get attention.
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Mario Kart 7 Review Thread: First Reviews In
- Thread starter pramath
- Start date
Eh, it's Jim Sterling being Jim Sterling. He pulls this kind of shit all the time. He loves being the outlier because he knows he'll get attention.
TheNatural
My Member!
It's funny how the a small amount of I've seen for Zelda and now Mario Kart, have the same exact complaints of "nothing new here" with once again, not saying why its bad. Meanwhile the same publications do circle jerks over yearly series' that do the same thing.
chickdigger802
Banned
How is he the outlier? Many reviewers mention the game feels a bit dull. And destructoid grade scale does mention that 5 is "Basically, this is like a "7" on your grandfather's blog".
UncleSporky
Member
Uh, most reviewers mention that it's possibly the best Mario Kart ever.
I suppose those don't have to be exclusive. Mario Kart has always been dull, who knew!
The_Darkest_Red
Member
Maybe a picture will help? Mario Kart review scores so far:
Any of those stand out to you?
UncleSporky
Member
Oh but a 5 there is like a 7, so it's actually not an outlier
or something
I should make a review site where a 3/10 is actually like an 8/10, then I can give out all the low scores I want!
The_Darkest_Red
Member
Oh okay, well I guess a 10 must be a 7 or something then considering that's what Jim gave Killzone 3.
Which raises the question... what is a 10 on the Destructoid scale?
chickdigger802
Banned
Oh okay, well I guess a 10 must be a 7 or something then considering that's what Jim gave Killzone 3.
Which raises the question... what is a 10 on the Destructoid scale?
I assume a 10 is a somewhat decent game no?
'good but nothing special' for many sites are about 7.
I guess that's what 5 is here.
and 1up's score isn't on metacritic yet... B-
if B+ is 83, what would a B- be?
Oh okay, well I guess a 10 must be a 7 or something then considering that's what Jim gave Killzone 3.
Which raises the question... what is a 10 on the Destructoid scale?
Deadly Premonition, which I would rate a 5.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
Sorry, I mean what number does "10" represent on the Destructoid scale. The point I'm trying to get at is that their (and specifically Sterling's) reviews lack any kind of consistency. It's so obvious at this point that they are basically a joke site in my eyes.
Also, the "5 is a 7" thing doesn't fly anyway --- look at this:
http://www.metacritic.com/publicati...=games&sort_options=critic_score&num_items=30
"On average, this publication grades 1.4 points lower than other critics. (0-100 point scale)"
I haven't kept up with all the details of this entry of Mario Kart, but good lord these reviews are injecting the hype right into my soul. Mario 3D Land, StarFox 64 3D and now this... Why is Nintendo trying so hard to make me cave so hard in regards to buying a 3DS? :lol
I just love how crashes were handled in MK64 so much. They made you feel like you were rocking the shit out of something and it was much more satisfying than these long drawn out and lacking in impact bowl overs MKs past 64 (that aren't Super Circuit) have been using. Nothing feels as satisfying as knocking someone over a railing on a multi-tier track in MK64. You also had more than enough time to get back to a decent clip thanks to A Button tap recoveries on landing.
Also, am I the only person who feels like MK64 was the fastest game in the series?
I just love how crashes were handled in MK64 so much. They made you feel like you were rocking the shit out of something and it was much more satisfying than these long drawn out and lacking in impact bowl overs MKs past 64 (that aren't Super Circuit) have been using. Nothing feels as satisfying as knocking someone over a railing on a multi-tier track in MK64. You also had more than enough time to get back to a decent clip thanks to A Button tap recoveries on landing.
Also, am I the only person who feels like MK64 was the fastest game in the series?
I can honestly feel where the whole "same game played it before 5/10" comes from. I am not excited at all about MK7. I'll probably get it eventually, but man, I know it's going to be so similar to the others. I mean, it's a cart racer. How much can they really change the core game play while still keeping it the same franchise? It's going to feel the same.
That said, I really wish games were reviewed in a bubble. Just because I'm getting tired of it, doesn't mean the game is a 5/10. No, I haven't played it, so I cannot say for sure, but lets be real. I would not have given any other Mario Kart game a 5/10 (well, maybe the GBA one... just wasn't feeling it), but that's besides the point. The point is, once someone becomes jaded to a franchise, they should just not become allowed to review it. And this goes for other franchises as well, including CoD or Madden for instance.
That said, I really wish games were reviewed in a bubble. Just because I'm getting tired of it, doesn't mean the game is a 5/10. No, I haven't played it, so I cannot say for sure, but lets be real. I would not have given any other Mario Kart game a 5/10 (well, maybe the GBA one... just wasn't feeling it), but that's besides the point. The point is, once someone becomes jaded to a franchise, they should just not become allowed to review it. And this goes for other franchises as well, including CoD or Madden for instance.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
James Bond meet Harry Potter in an alternate universe?
I'm pretty sure this game is gonna be great. Doesn't it bring the most changes to a MK game in a while. Flying, underwater racing, revamped retro stages to take into account both new methods, online play w communities, first person racing, etc. It seems to me that some reviewers complain about the core MK formula being dull or stale so that no matter what how its dressed differently or what additions are brought to it, the core is no longer fun or as fun as it used to be. I'm the opposite, I love MK for what it is and don't want it to change radically.
Oh man is there a new James Pond game?
I fucking loved Robocod.
plagiarize
Banned
Maybe a picture will help? Mario Kart review scores so far:
Any of those stand out to you?
the one you felt needed to be red?
were review threads ALWAYS like this? i thought we'd moved on after the 8.8 days, but perhaps it's a cyclic thing. perhaps it's a late gen, late franchise thing.
Jim Sterling is bored of Mario Kart and not FPS shooters. boo fucking hoo. he's allowed. if he just rated shit low to get hits, he'd have rated MW3 low, not high. that would've got him way more hits than this review.
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
But then how would he get paid?
Totally kidding. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. =)
plagiarize
Banned
i love that people can basically disregard any review these days. too high... THEY WERE PAID OFF. too low... THEY DID IT FOR HITS.
KittenMaster
Member
The whole Uncharted 3 thing was a lot worse, and that was a 90-something score, wasn't it?
diffusionx
Gold Member
Maybe Jim Sterling just doesn't like Mario Kart games anymore.
If you do, then his review doesn't apply.
If you do, then his review doesn't apply.
chickdigger802
Banned
How does it not fly? If 5 is 7. Naturally average would be lower. Math is such a mysterious thing for some people.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
The red was added in an attempt to make things seem a little more lighthearted and snarky. I guess that didn't work out so well.
I honestly couldn't care less what Jim Sterling thinks about MK7, I was just responding to a comment that I found interesting about him not being an outlier.
You can't be serious... The irony here is incredible...
UncleSporky
Member
Suppose a game reviewer gave everything a 1 or 2 because they honestly hated almost every game that came out. Do they deserve respect? Are they above criticism just because they're being honest? Should Metacritic duly record those scores as legitimate opinions that investors can then draw conclusions from?
plagiarize
Banned
nah, that was an 8 out of 10. well, and people threw shit at the IGN review too for being too positive. the Zelda gang got mad at some really obscure website too over a 5 or whatever it was.
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
As someone who does this for a living, let me say, if that were the case I'd have a much nicer car. =|
Edit: That being said, Sterling really missed a lot of points in his review. I think he's more than entitled to have his own opinion, and if his heart felt a 5 and he can justify that to himself, that's perfectly fine. But the dude barely even mentioned the 16 new tracks, which are, in my opinion, the real meat of any Mario Kart experience and a huge merit on which to be judged.
Eggplant Wizard
Member
Good on Jim Sterling for actually using the full review scale and giving an opinion beyond "Does the game fulfill its goals?" It's refreshing, even if I didn't quite understand his criticisms. Maybe its inconsistent with his other reviews (I haven't read enough of Sterling's work to tell), but he got his point across well and I don't see any reason for it to be getting such an emotional reaction.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
Is there anyone in here who's actually freaking out or anything? I feel like you're just being over-dramatic.
UncleSporky
Member
For people who are unfamiliar with Sterling's work, watch some episodes of the Jimquisition.
Even when you agree with him, you feel dirty for doing so and consider changing your own opinion, if this is what the people on your side are really like.
That's the point, it's totally inconsistent. He gave Modnation Racers a 6.5, but wrote in his review that it was a poor's man Mario Kart.
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
That's honestly a pretty stupid stance to take. Sterling's review comes off as surprisingly incomplete to me, and a marginally inaccurate assessment of the game. I won't argue his score, but I'll argue his justification of it.
Contrarily, the CVG review, while far more thorough, just seems like a gigantic circle-jerk for the game.
I can sum up this game in a few sentences for you guys:
It's Mario Kart Wii with new, incredible tracks, and the ability to float around for a few moments (which is surprisingly fun), and portions where you submerge underwater (which don't drastically change the core gameplay). The minute additions and subtractions of items/characters/karts/modes are all part of buying a new Mario Kart, and marginally change the way you play the game, for better (mostly) or worse. If you like Mario Kart, especially the Wii version, you should know what to expect: You'll enjoy 7.
plagiarize
Banned
yes. this hypothetical person doesn't exist, but if the honestly didn't like every game they were given to review they should deserve respect for honestly reviewing them, just as every honest review should be respected.
this hypothetical reviewer, should he pretend he likes a game every now and then? should he never share his opinions?
KittenMaster
Member
Is he really being overdramatic? And nope, nobody is actually really overreacting over the review. That's the amazing part, a 5/10 review blows over and is commentary more about the reviewer itself, but 8/10 for Uncharted 3 and we have Destructoid writing an article about NeoGAF members' reactions and EviLore going into panic mode.
plagiarize
Banned
in this review he strongly suggested that he prefered Modnations Racers to Mario Kart 7, so i don't see the inconsistancy.
edit i don't think anyone is freaking out or anything, but people sure seem to be attacking the reviewer's integrity rather than discussing the points in the review which all seem valid and which i think it's pretty easy to tell are going to apply to you or not. they don't apply to me, i'm not sick of the series. more of the same sounds like a good deal to me, but opinions you know?
exactly, and a lot of those people enjoyed earlier games in the series and may well be hoping this one will be more like those. reviews shouldn't just come from fans of the series. they should come from other places too.
'if you like this franchise you will like the new game in this franchise' x 100 for each new game isn't exactly helpful as a body of criticism or as a buying guide.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
I dunno, I just thought this:
was a little much. Things were fairly civil and calm in here as far as I could tell.
UncleSporky
Member
I'd say he's definitely in the wrong line of work. Same as the assembly line worker who trashes every doodad on the conveyor belt because it's not up to his high standards. It's personally honest, but not in line with expectations for someone with his job.
And if they're entitled to their opinions, so are we, and while you have the right to criticize others for criticizing him, we have the right to criticize you right back.
Critically.
KittenMaster
Member
Ah, I see.
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
Depends why they didn't like the Wii version. If they had a problem with the core racing mechanics of Wii, then yeah, they probably wouldn't love 7. If they had problems with the tracks, items, or game modes, then they should still give 7 a chance.
7 is largely built on the MK Wii gameplay engine, and it definitely shows.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
That Mario Kart has gotten some middling scores before as a matter of course is a valid point to bring up.
Though it makes me consider that, on the whole, video game criticism does poorly / tends to be hypocritical about a certain category of game. Basically, the "breadwinner" game. Games like Mario Kart, or Call of Duty, are "breadwinners". They don't really strive to the lofty goals that intellectual (and pseudointellectual) Game Thinq (tm) likes to pontificate about. These games tend to be "stale" by the standards of whatever is the latest trend in progressive or 'artistic' game design. But they're games made to serve a specific purpose. They often perform their workmanlike role in a very refined manner, in the case of the longer running series. Let's face it... by this point, Mario Kart or CoD are down to a science.
But the hypocrisy tends to come in that games like Mario Kart, or Nintendo's audience in general, are not "cool" by the standards of 20-30 something males who are fully jacked in to the cutting edge of the gaming scene. Gritty shooters and the like, ARE cool.
So, I think you're much more likely to see CoD get a pass year after year, but games like Mario Kart get derided for being old and stale, with a "who plays those anyway?" subtext pervading the reviews.
From a perspective of actual critique, there's no reason to give two different games a different degree of leeway just because you're heavily biased to find one cool and one lame. Certainly, state which one you like more. But don't pretense to dock one of them for being "stale" in all the same ways your favorite game is also stale.
Like I said earlier, most game writing confuses critique with taste.
Though it makes me consider that, on the whole, video game criticism does poorly / tends to be hypocritical about a certain category of game. Basically, the "breadwinner" game. Games like Mario Kart, or Call of Duty, are "breadwinners". They don't really strive to the lofty goals that intellectual (and pseudointellectual) Game Thinq (tm) likes to pontificate about. These games tend to be "stale" by the standards of whatever is the latest trend in progressive or 'artistic' game design. But they're games made to serve a specific purpose. They often perform their workmanlike role in a very refined manner, in the case of the longer running series. Let's face it... by this point, Mario Kart or CoD are down to a science.
But the hypocrisy tends to come in that games like Mario Kart, or Nintendo's audience in general, are not "cool" by the standards of 20-30 something males who are fully jacked in to the cutting edge of the gaming scene. Gritty shooters and the like, ARE cool.
So, I think you're much more likely to see CoD get a pass year after year, but games like Mario Kart get derided for being old and stale, with a "who plays those anyway?" subtext pervading the reviews.
From a perspective of actual critique, there's no reason to give two different games a different degree of leeway just because you're heavily biased to find one cool and one lame. Certainly, state which one you like more. But don't pretense to dock one of them for being "stale" in all the same ways your favorite game is also stale.
Like I said earlier, most game writing confuses critique with taste.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
It's fair to note that people have been attacking Jim Sterling on NeoGAF and similar gaming boards for years, and for good reason. I myself wrote a few screeds in my blogging days. So acting like this "picking on Sterling" stuff is new business shows a short memory span.
It's not that the validity of his opinion is under question, though the way in which he defends it can be discussed. Rather, it's the usefulness of the opinion from a man who has written some of the worst pieces of writing the internet has seen about our favorite form of media.
TheNatural
My Member!
Pretty much. Many reviewers don't go much beyond "waa I'm tired of this game its the same" crap without justifying their opinion as to why that's bad. You can point out basically any game released this year and say it's more of the same, and either give it a bad or good review based off that.
If it's bad, then they should back up their opinions why that is, and more of the same isn't a negative or positive view, it's just a neutral description. If a game mechanic has aged and been improved on by other games in it's class or something about the game doesn't hold up in today's standard it should be pointed out. Saying something is tired, it's the same formula, it doesn't do anything bold is NOT a criticism.
I've seen a small amount of reviews who want to knock games do that with some reviews this year, and it's stupid, and they should learn how to write an opinion and defend it.
Criminal Upper
Banned
He also gave Vanquish a 5, and called it a "turd."
But gave Fist of the North Star a 8.5
Fair.
To me, Mario Kart is as a solidified game in my life as poker or chess is to others. It's tried and true.
chickdigger802
Banned
Huh? Haven't had a math class in a while, but if a site gives 5s in which other sites give 7s. Wouldn't the avg be lower?
plagiarize
Banned
i would too. if he existed. but he doesn't does he? because not only does Jim Sterling like some games, he even likes some games which are popular. shocking i know.
his criticisms of the game are better informed than any criticisms of his integrity whether we like them or not.
all that bothers me are the people second guessing his opinion. disagree with it fine... but if you're going to claim it's dishonest then you need to actually get some facts to go with your accusation, and no, scores he gave other games you like or dislike don't count as supporting evidence.
what's more likely, he trashed some relatively obscure game like Vanquish because he didn't like it, or because he was trying to drive hits to his website? people aren't allowed to like Killzone 3 more than Vanquish?
i don't share his opinion. i can critique his writing. i can see where his tastes differ from mine, but i can also read his review and come to the conclusion that his issues with the game are not universal and that they aren't complaints that will bother me (valid as they are).
it doesn't need to go anywhere else. i can see all the positive reviews. i don't think anyone who actually reads his review is going to decide incorrectly not to buy the game as a result. if they share his feelings on the series being a bit long in the tooth without enough change they will discover from his review that this isn't the reinvention they were hoping for. if they don't think that it's getting tired, they will realise that his review comes from a viewpoint other than their own, and read some other reviews.
criticise me all you like for what i actually do and say. that's fair. second guess what i say and criticise me for things that you have no evidence that i'm doing? not so much.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
Yes, it would be lower. However, there is a pretty significant difference between 20% (the difference between a 5 and 7 on a 10 point scale) and 1.4% (the average difference between a Destructoid review and the average review score).
My point is that an average difference as small as 1.4% shows that Destructoid reviews are very close to in-line with the average publication in terms of scores --- which stands in direct contrast to what they are claiming in the descriptions of their review scale.