well, if they can do that, why not!?
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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow
- Thread starter Patryn
- Start date
well, if they can do that, why not!?
EmCeeGramr
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPelM2hwhJA&feature=youtu.be
well, it seems that it was planned.
the image from ME1:
At that point in the series, the main motivation for the Reapers was that the mass effect and dark energy itself was harmful, not that synthetic life would destroy all organic life in the galaxy. So that's probably some aborted plot point about Reaper "machine devils", not the Catalyst trying to save people from general synthetics.
yeah, I know they are all the same.
the Catalyst didn't try to save organic life from synthetics. It just ensured that not everything is harvested thus it "protected" i.e. "saved" organic life.
the biggest dissapointment about this is that every ending is the same: so many lies
clearly Bioware didn't know their limits and hardware limits when they started it. In general the series didn't deliver. I'm glad that I played and it was a really great journey but there is so much ruined potential that it hurts. The franchise should have been handled by more competent developer, like CD Project for example.
IAmtheFMan
Member
Beat it yesterday.
Huh.
Huh.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Yeah, and the reason it does so because of the supposed "threat" of synthetic life.
alysonwheel
Member
They should put that in their adverts. "Mass Effect 3: the game they're all saying 'huh' about."
do you think it was afraid of The Synthesis? I don't think so.
EmCeeGramr
Member
then I don't understand you:
EmCeeGramr said:
it doesn't protect them in the classic meaning of this word. The legends say that it protects organic life but that it because organic life which created these legends can't comprehend the original intent of The Catalyst which is to harvest enough to ensure that another cycle of the birth, life and death begins. It's symbolic because everything is cyclical in existence. Many civilizations lived and still live by this notion except may be the modern western civilization...
EmCeeGramr
Member
What are you talking about?
The Catalyst straight up says that it's harvesting things because otherwise the civilizations will get too advanced and develop synthetic life that will wipe out all organic life in the galaxy, and that synthetics will always rebel against organics. It's harvesting advanced civilizations to "protect" the less developed organics from synthetics.
Despite the fact that there are a bunch of logical inconsistencies with this method and motivation.
brb, will watch this again.
Joe Molotov
Member
Don't do it. You should quit now while you still think the ending is good.
I watched this, you are right.
but I don't see any logical inconsistencies. Two options:
1)let them live and they create synthetics which will destroy ALL LIFE.
2)let them die to preserve SOME LIFE.
Phuturephunk
Banned
Yeah, once the reapers went from Cthulu inspired space gods from the dark to actual beings that had to obey the laws of physics, the methods they employ for the harvest is just..inefficient..if not downright illogical.
You would think, with a billion or so years to think about it, they'd have a foolproof plan.
Doesn't matter anyways. The Catalyst is just one badly adjusted AI trying to make sense of existence...figured out the wrong answer and ran with it. And really now, in the scheme of things the whole epic story is just a fart in the wind.
The Milky Way has ~400 billion stars in it. There's no way our dime store cthulus could hit all that and ensure the directive was carried out. If they could, they wouldn't be stopped by anything, much less some Macguffin built at the last minute.
I mean seriously, the Reapers (and, by extension, the catalyst) would have to be a Type III civilization construct on the Kardashev scale to even approach covering all that ground efficiently.
This was shown not to be the case in-game.
The more I think about it, the more the reapers are kind of a farce. They're just really advanced bee keepers with the relays being the hives everyone kind of buzzes around. What about all the bees in the wild?
Yeah, no.
dude, while I certainly agree with your arguments if we go to this territory I can start asking why aliens act and behave like humans.
Phuturephunk
Banned
That's totally fair. I'm just really just trying to make sense of what I watched two nights ago. I'm just baffled and my mind is running in like 30 different directions.
Which is a positive point for Bioware because I haven't thought about a game series like this in over 10 years..hell probably close to 15.
Photolysis
Banned
Holy fuck, that's one way to take something out of context.
PinkCrayon
Member
hahaohwow.jpg
I'd seen all the endings, just not side by side. Just goes to show that Control is the best ending.
-Citadel is not destroyed
-Mass relay just collapses, does not explode
-Joker doesn't look behind him as he is fleeing
Yeah well it's the BLUE one after all.
But you dont even shoot any tubes!
Zomba13
Member
But that proves the logic is flawed though doesn't it? The reapers are synthetic life and they don't wipe out all life.
So in all known instances the greatest threat to the galaxy is a hybrid lifeform that also emerges out of the ending that was suppose to be the best. And in all known instances, synthetic life threatening organics has been caused in whole or in part by those same organic/synthetics beings.
So yeah, fuck this.
WrenchNinja
Member
well, it seems that it was planned.
the image from ME1:
This is alluding to Prothean VIs.
But the Catalyst isn't the Reaper, the reapers are just his tools.
well...
damn, I'm trying to write my take on the ending but my English isn't good enough to translate my thoughts clearly. Also the subject requires long, detailed explanations and I have no time for this.
I'll try anyway.
One of the qualities of what we call "good art" is that it can be interpreted in the endless number of ways. When I was growing up I enjoyed reading books again and again because if the book was good and deep my personal experience and outlook changed its meaning every time I read it. While there are pieces of art which are created with clear messages there are a lot of novels, books and other stuff with a heavy dose of symbolism, hidden and not hidden. Some of it is created unintentionally.
I don't think that Mass Effect's ending convey any intended symbolism but since my mind works this way I enjoyed its vagueness.
My personal take on the synthesis ending which happened after Shepard jumps into the ray of light (which I'm sure has nothing to do with what Hudson intended to but it will explain why I liked the ending):
Organics and synthetics represent a classic duality - dark and light, chaos and order, men and women, ying and yang, etc. If you have studied the history of religion, read the works of Carl Jung, his pupils and so on you would know that a human being strives to the feel of wholeness. This wholeness is attained by merging the duality which is present inside every human into ONE. I won't explain how this is attained by means of psychology, religion and everyday's life. This process is everpresent and continues until the last day of a person's life. All personal "revelations" which may happen during the life of a person are parts of this process.
this symbol is what it is all about. It's really hard to explain what this is about because it's essentially a paradox which can't be conveyed through words. So to attain one's wholeness, one must break the cycle, i.e. reach the center of the endless spiral, finish the individuation, reach this final revelation and merge light side and dark into the one.
This process happens through 4 stages - nigredo, albedo, citrinitas and rubedo. The first one - nigredo - is represented through suffering when a person becomes gradually aware of his/her shadow but it's not a straight realisation and straight suffering. It's more like a hard work which becomes harder and harder until the suffering becomes unbearable and a person realises something. It may be really anything. He/she may realize that he is a gay, he/she may remember something traumatic that was forgotten a long time ago but affected a person's life, i.e. a person learns something which brings him/her to peace (for some period of time). It's sort of primitive explanation, but I guess you get the idea. And it's just one little tiny step to the final personal revelation which nobody can achieve but tries the whole life.
so what I see in Mass Effect - I see a long escalating battle which becomes harder and harder and harder until it almost destroys Shepard who comes to The Catalyst as weak as a newborn, i.e. in a perfect state to accept whatever he/she tried to accept/understand. But as usual realisation happens when some catalyst is present. In this case Shepard sees The Catalyst as a child he/she wasn't able to save on Earth. It's the guilt, the symbol of all innocent lives crushed by this conflict, lifes which Shepard wasn't able to save and all people he/she lost during the conflict. It's a shock which is necessary to achieve a realization, i.e. enlightment, i.e. whatever you want to call this. The boy says that Shepard has done the impossible and he/she can break the endless cycle. Shepard asks "will it bring
I want to remind that it is how I personally see the ending and I'm sure that Hudson meant something else. Also I think that they just did it because WE MUST SHIP THIS SHIT IN MARCH AND WE HAVE NO TIME. But as people asked me why I liked it, I explained.
Jake Tower
Banned
It all makes sense now.
Joker's robohat is One with Itself, now.
Joker's robohat is One with Itself, now.
PinkCrayon
Member
The catalyst would have been more interesting if we saw him in his original form, not some stupid kid.
alysonwheel
Member
heliosRAzi
Banned
The problem with this and people trying to justify the motivations of the Reapers/Catalyst is that it doesn't make sense when you take a look at the entire series. We don't have a problem with the synthetics vs. organics trope: we've seen it in Terminator, Frankenstein and a whole cornucopia of media. With Mass Effect, we are told that there is strength through diversity. We are shown that synthetics can and are peaceful. We get two of them to be a part of our crew. Then in the last few moments of the third game, we are told that synthetics will always rebel with no evidence that would support that claim while we have evidence that supports the contrary. But we are not able to present that evidence to the Catalyst and tell him that he's a fucking retard.
To expound on the no evidence point, Mass Effect has never been entirely about synthetics vs. organics. It was relegated to a subplot with the quarians while the main plot was about defeating the reapers. Never in the other two games was it alluded that the Reapers were doing this to "save" us from synthetics. In fact, their actions run counter to that. The Reapers actively help the geth in destroying organics.
Typographenia
Member
I wondered what I would find in the Tali thread on the bioware social forum, since her reveal was pretty awful. I found this.
Shepard: My mom abused my dad.
Tali: Let's have sex!
Shepard: My mom abused my dad.
Tali: Let's have sex!
You are literally supplementing all meaning, significance, and themes from your end. Once you concede that you felt as though Hudson did not intend these things, you may as well be writing fan-fiction. And, no, the entire premise of argument is false. The synthetic-organic dichotomy is not analogous to the light-dark analogy. We know that is not necessarily chaos versus order either, because of what happened to Legion and the Geth. Your interpretation reads like an exercise of an overzealous English or Philosophy major; if you begin searching intending to find and make meaning -- you will. You can subjectively enjoy the ending, but by any serious application of criticism (in the formal sense) the ending to ME3 is rendered unequivocally terrible.
motherofgod.jpg
EmCeeGramr
Member
WrenchNinja
Member
I hate Tali fans.
Typographenia
Member
We're not all bad. : (
I need to go check the other threads. I doubt they're as amusing. Unless... I hope there is an EDI/Joker one.
Zomba13
Member
... Well that is the BSN...
Considering the sex was never touched upon, it wasn't as terrible as I thought it would be.
heliosRAzi
Banned
It's a wretched hive of scum and alien sweat
Typographenia
Member
HOLY CRAP. HOLY CRAP.
The Tali Song (parody of Taylor Swift's "You Belong With Me")
I obviously need to spend more time on the Bioware forums.
That's the end of my bioware social stuff, though, I swear.
The Tali Song (parody of Taylor Swift's "You Belong With Me")
I obviously need to spend more time on the Bioware forums.
That's the end of my bioware social stuff, though, I swear.
Jake Tower
Banned
PinkCrayon
Member
man this thread has taken a dark turn...
Photolysis
Banned
I quite like Tali's character (though Garrus is the ultimate bro and has to top the list), but the fanbase in general does seem one of the creepier ones out there as well as one of the most immature ones.
Or perhaps I'm just blissfully ignorant of most of the nutjob fanbases out there.
heliosRAzi
Banned
It's time to begin the culling. We need to save the thread from tali fans by destroying the thread
Typographenia
Member
Only the junior members will be left, until the day they are doomed to inevitability.
I'm kind of mad at myself, because I feel like I should replay ME3. However, I just have no desire to do it. I just don't feel like going to the effort again (at least, right now).
I'll make myself one day, but until then...
So I completed the game... Gotta swallow the ending first. I choose the middle option, still not quite sure if that was the best one or if almost everyone else just died except some glassbone pilot and an A.I.
Though, what actually kind of bugged me is that I didn't get to really connect with Ashley, I couldn't unlock her final power and she never changed her hair or her armor (in the artbook it clearly says that later in the game she'll drop the make-up, tie the hair up etc.). Was that a bug? Did I do something wrong, or would I have to romance her in order to get all this stuff?
Though, what actually kind of bugged me is that I didn't get to really connect with Ashley, I couldn't unlock her final power and she never changed her hair or her armor (in the artbook it clearly says that later in the game she'll drop the make-up, tie the hair up etc.). Was that a bug? Did I do something wrong, or would I have to romance her in order to get all this stuff?
