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[Spiegel]

At least as far a 3rd parties go, I think those are mostly tier 2 or tier 3 franchises there.

For next year, Monster Hunter 3, Tales, and Samurai Warriors 3 will be much bigger than anything you listed.

Samurai Warriors and Tales were big on PS2.

Tenchu sold well on the PS2 too, Chocobo Dungeon sold a million on the psx (yeah ages ago) and we know how that games sold on the Wii.

Different times, different consoles

Imo, Monster Hunter is the only guarantee seller for now

 

[schuelma]

Samurai Warriors and Tales were big on PS2.

Tenchu sold well on the PS2 too, Chocobo Dungeon sold a million on the psx (yeah ages ago) and we know how that games sold on the Wii.

Different times, different consoles

Imo, Monster Hunter is the only guarantee seller for now

You might be right on Samurai Warriors, but ToS:KoR did pretty well for a cheap spin off so I think a mainline game can do pretty well.

 

[Totobeni]

You might be right on Samurai Warriors, but ToS:KoR did pretty well for a cheap spin off so I think a mainline game can do pretty well.

and Tenchu 4 and Fatal Frame 4 are what again ? spinoffs ? Wii owenrs are different than PS2s so the sales , but Monster Hunter can sell millions even on calculators

 

[BishopLamont]

Galaxy 2 and Zelda Wii should be coming (probably 2010, though). Pikmin 3, GameCube Wii-port Collection (I really think this has a chance to significantly improve the core market on the Wii), and Punch-Out! should all be out in 2009 (GC Collection starting in 2008). Monster Hunter 3, Final Fantasy: Echoes, another DQ spinoff, Haruhi (and other animes), an expected main RE game (RE4:Gaiden or post PS360 release announced RE5), and a (hopefully not bad) Tales game all in 2009.

I honestly feel that 2009 will be the year that Nintendo makes serious advancement in taking over the core Japanese market from the PS2. The PS2 is unavoidably fading, and PS3/360 has (some of) the games but not the userbase. Wii Sports Resort should carry the mainstream audience for a while, but it can only be a temporary fix until the core games bring in the PS2 traditional audience.

I doubt we'll see Galaxy 2 and Zelda Wii in 2009, but other then that every developer has shown some kind of support going into 2009, the only company I'm waiting on is Konami. Hopefully they have something cooking for the Wii.

and Tenchu 4 and Fatal Frame 4 are what again ? spinoffs ? Wii owenrs are different than PS2s so the sales , but Monster Hunter can sell millions even on calculators

I wouldn't call Tenchu 4 or FF4 big games in any way.

 

[Dascu]

and Tenchu 4 and Fatal Frame 4 are what again ? spinoffs ? Wii owenrs are different than PS2s so the sales , but Monster Hunter can sell millions even on calculators

Fatal Frame 4 sold as much as its predecessors.

Tenchu 4 however is sadly a complete failure. Not sure who's to blame. Probably a combination of lack of marketing, userbase and diminishing interest in the series.

I doubt we'll see Galaxy 2 and Zelda Wii in 2009, but other then that every developer has shown some kind of support going into 2009, the only company I'm waiting on is Konami. Hopefully they have something cooking for the Wii.

It's a darn shame that Goemon Wii announcement was apparently bogus.

 

[schuelma]

and Tenchu 4 and Fatal Frame 4 are what again ? spinoffs ? Wii owenrs are different than PS2s so the sales , but Monster Hunter can sell millions even on calculators

I don't understand your point.

Tenchu 4 admittedly bombed. Point for you.

Fatal Frame was on track to sell the most in the series before it fell out of the top 30. Kind of cuts against your point.

Tales of Sympthonia did as well as any spin off in the series. While I agree it probably won't reach the heights of the big PS2 games, I think it can do 350-400K, which would be a lot more than any 3rd party game in 08.

 

[matmanx1]

I find those PS3 numbers surprising and pleasing at the same time. At first I thought it was a typo or I was reading it wrong based on the performance from the previous weeks. Then I realized the new PS3 sku had been released and that LBP and GTAIV had launched. Anyway, I know HD gaming will never sell in Japan like it does here and in Europe but it would be great if the sells increased.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

If 3rd parties want to continue to focus on their traditional japanese audience, I can't see why would they go to Wii. Its the handhelds and the very slowly dying PS2 where its at. If you want to focus on new audiences or the worldwide one, that's a different case. I doubt that many japanese 3rd parties can successfully lure the worldwide audience into their games though.

 

[typhonsentra]

He might be talking about own SCE games, not third party games

Spoiler

probably

This. *heh*

Replace The with Their at the beginning of the last sentence and it'll make sense. And yes, the irony is not lost on me.

 

[Eteric Rice]

If 3rd parties want to continue to focus on their traditional japanese audience, I can't see why would they go to Wii. Its the handhelds and the very slowly dying PS2 where its at. If you want to focus on new audiences or the worldwide one, that's a different case. I doubt that many japanese 3rd parties can successfully lure the worldwide audience into their games though.

Like you said, the PS2 is dying. The Wii can be a good replacement for it there.

DS is probably the future, though.

 

[donny2112]

Tales,

Wasn't started as a mainline game, and the fact Vesperia was coming to the 360 didn't help. I'm not expecting a whole lot from the "mothership" Tales title anyways, though.

Tenchu,

Tenchu 3 did great. I could be way off, but it seems like Tenchu is a game that will sell to an existing core audience as opposed to drawing one in. Wii, unfortunately, has probably lost some of its core audience since the Spring when SSBB came out.

Sky Crawlers,

Really? Ace Combat team, yes, but that was supposed to carry it?

Fatal Frame*,

Probably in the same situation as Tenchu 4. Being published by Nintendo surely helped it, but it's absolute numbers were still pretty pathetic. Good for the series, but the series has hardly been a blockbuster.

House of The Dead,

Probably better reserved for Overkill, when it comes out, but it was the first House of the Dead release since the Xbox version in 2003 for Japan.

Shiren,

84K. I don't know if you were implying something lower.

PowaPro 15

This is part of the core PS2 audience that Wii needs to bring over.

Nintendo games:
Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Mario Baseball, Wario

Other than Wario, those did ~ the same or better on the Wii. Nintendo core games are really not what Nintendo needs to focus on to bring over the PS2 core audience.

Gc->Wii games:
Resident Evil 0
Anime Games:
Soul Eater, One Piece

One Piece has shown that there is some audience for anime already on Wii. Haruhi and others should increase that audience.

A DS port (FFCC) and unnannounced games (Resident Evil?, DQ spinoff?) aren't going to do much.

Critical mass. Individually, no. The releases this year have been one-offs and not a consistent other than in the Spring/Summer which did cause improvements over 2007's August/September swoon.

MH on the other hand could do a lot for the Wii

It's the obvious choice, but my greater hope for it is that it helps push the critical mass over the top for enough consumers. I don't think it will pass a million or something.

The difference between the third-party games you mentioned and the games I mentioned are that the ones you mentioned (other than Tales which is an RPG, and I've already discussed my feelings there) would probably sell fine on a system with a pre-existing core base. The games I mentioned all hit different market segments that could bring in more core gamers as part of an overall library. The audience isn't there enough or at all, yet. The Wii needs games that directly appeal to the existing PS2 core audience groups to get them to care enough to come to the Wii.

There have been a decent amount of solid tier 2 third party stuff, but they kind of skipped the step where they release the big third party franchises to build the market.

Pretty much this.

 

[BishopLamont]

Wasn't started as a mainline game, and the fact Vesperia was coming to the 360 didn't help. I'm not expecting a whole lot from the "mothership" Tales title anyways, though.

I think ToS did very well for a spin-off and if Namco doesn't drop the ball and releases a good main Tales, they could be the RPG king of the Wii, the title which SE should be getting had they just released a good FF game. I have very high hopes for the mothership game.

 

[Phife Dawg]

I don't know. This year Japan had:

3rd party "core" games:
Tales, Tenchu, Sky Crawlers, Fatal Frame*, House of The Dead, Shiren, PowaPro 15
Nintendo games:
Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Mario Baseball, Wario
Gc->Wii games:
Resident Evil 0
Anime Games:
Soul Eater, One Piece

A DS port (FFCC) and unnannounced games (Resident Evil?, DQ spinoff? WTF?) aren't going to do much. MH on the other hand could do a lot for the Wii

Just out of curiosity: How is Sky Crawlers not an Anime game? You put an asterisk next to FF, probably to highlight it's being published by Nintendo. But still, how is this third party?

Samurai Warriors and Tales were big on PS2.

Tenchu sold well on the PS2 too, Chocobo Dungeon sold a million on the psx (yeah ages ago) and we know how that games sold on the Wii.

Different times, different consoles

Imo, Monster Hunter is the only guarantee seller for now

A mainline Tales should sell more than what KoR did, which is with BD the most successful current gen home console JRPG - as funny as that may sound. It may not reach old heights again but it'll sell well.

If 3rd parties want to continue to focus on their traditional japanese audience, I can't see why would they go to Wii. Its the handhelds and the very slowly dying PS2 where its at. If you want to focus on new audiences or the worldwide one, that's a different case. I doubt that many japanese 3rd parties can successfully lure the worldwide audience into their games though.

It worked out really great for Tales and IU :lol . Rock and a hard place and everything.

Are you, are you dense? It's a western developed game, there were no expectations for this game. Their only western games that do better than this are the Ratchet games for PS2.

Fixed it, but SCE still have/had big expectations for this title.

 

[farnham]

I think its a problem of the japanese devs

they cant just blindly bring over PS2 content and assume that it will sell just as well as on the PS2

the Wii Audience is different and it requires games that are specific to this audience..

That said.. Fatal Frame IV did better then its predecessors

Tenchu 4 and Tales of Symphonia 2 were released after each series has taken a big dive (especially Tales of Tempest brought the Tales series to a very bad light.. similar things with Tenchu DS and Tenchu 360)

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Actually, I'm quite glad that Wii Music bombed, because Miyamoto-san have to get the point about its recent games. It's ok developing casual games, but please they've to be at least good enough as Wii Sports. Not excellent, but not trash.

I do think that Wii Music was developed surfing also on Wii Play's success, but the responsible in that case was the packed-in controller.

So, what about the future: this should be a lesson for Miyamoto-san, preventing him abusing the consumer with B-games. A return to origins is necessary. Innovation? O' course. Simply concepts? Ok. Approximative games? No.

 

[Captain Smoker]

Total software LTD's till 11/02/2008

But I've mixed Famitsu & Dengeki numbers.


Famitsu: From Launch - 08/03/2008
Dengeki: 08/04/2008 - 11/02/2008 (last 13 weeks)

	Software LTD

NDS	110.843.084
PSP	25.130.186
WII	24.161.804
PS3	7.043.254
360	3.540.713

 

[Spiegel]

Just out of curiosity: How is Sky Crawlers not an Anime game? You put an asterisk next to FF, probably to highlight it's being published by Nintendo. But still, how is this third party?

Fatal Frame was a typical third party core game and has a loyal fanbase, being published by Nintendo don't change anything.

Sky Crawlers is based on a book, and has an anime. Is Tales an anime game because it has an anime/manga?

A mainline Tales should sell more than what KoR did, which is with BD the most successful current gen home console JRPG - as funny as that may sound. It may not reach old heights again but it'll sell well.

I don't know, KoR was the unofficial sequel of a good selling and loved Tales Of game. Yeah, being a spinoff probably hurt the game but even a cheaper spinoff like Tales of The World sold better on the psp. And no Tales games have sold more than 216k since 2006

Knowing that, I wonder why Namco hasn't released a better Tales Of game on the psp.


After the major third party core "bombas" You can't just assume anything with the Wii

 

[NeonZ]

I don't know, KoR was the unofficial sequel of a good selling and loved Tales Of game. Yeah, being a spinoff probably hurt the game but even a cheaper spinoff like Tales of The World sold better on the psp.

Tales of the World sold better? I didn't know that. How much did each one sell?

Anyway, unlike KoR, World was a spin-off of multiple Tales titles, with main characters from various games throughout the entire series. The execution might not have been very good, but its concept certainly has more commercial potential than KoR's.

 

[Yoshichan]

Like you said, the PS2 is dying.

Shit, I hate reading this but it's the truth... ugh, I'm 'bout to cry.

 

[schuelma]

Tales of the World sold better? I didn't know that. How much did each one sell?

Tales of the World is at 214K.

Of course, that was with a full year of reporting. (came out end of 06, last reporting was at the end of 07).

ToS:KoR was at 198K a month after release. I would be very surprised if it isn't above Tales of the World by now.

 

[wrowa]

Sky Crawlers is based on a book, and has an anime. Is Tales an anime game because it has an anime/manga?

That's nonsense. The Sky Crawlers is based on the movie, not on the book. Without the movie the game would have never been developed. The producer of the movie was even involved in the developement of the game...

And well, the movie certainly underperformed too, so it's no surpirse that the game bombed.

 

[Phife Dawg]

Fatal Frame was a typical third party core game and has a loyal fanbase, being published by Nintendo don't change anything.

Sky Crawlers is based on a book, and has an anime. Is Tales an anime game because it has an anime/manga?

Nintendo publishing it changes everything in regards to being third party or not. How can a Nintendo-published game be third-party?

Sky Crawlers is based on an Anime, which is based on a book. Tales is a different case alltogether.

I don't know, KoR was the unofficial sequel of a good selling and loved Tales Of game. Yeah, being a spinoff probably hurt the game but even a cheaper spinoff like Tales of The World sold better on the psp. And no Tales games have sold more than 216k since 2006

Knowing that, I wonder why Namco hasn't released a better Tales Of game on the psp.

After the major third party core "bombas" You can't just assume anything with the Wii

Tales of is still a strong IP, even with the interest dwindling a bit. Something that a lot of Wii games miss.

Tales of the World sold better? I didn't know that. How much did each one sell?

Anyway, unlike KoR, World was a spin-off of multiple Tales titles, with main characters from various games throughout the entire series. The execution might not have been very good, but its concept certainly has more commercial potential than KoR's.

Tales of group taken from JJS' wiki. Seeing that TotW gathered almost 30k sales after it fell of the Top30 we can assume ToS will get some sales the same way. In the end they'll probably be on equal footing, statistical noise and everything.

 

[Spiegel]

Sky Crawlers is based on an Anime, which is based on a book. Tales is a different case alltogether.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13412715&postcount=12

Quoting Stormbringer who has the game:

From what I know, this is not the case. The game tells an original story.

Inspired by the book or the movie != an anime game

Nintendo publishing it changes everything in regards to being third party or not. How can a Nintendo-published game be third-party?

In the context of replying donny's argument (2009 games) it made sense.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

The Tales spinoff vs spinoff thing has been answered a few times, but I think the visual helps.

This source has Dawn of the New World up to 211K by now, though it's not clear exactly which week the data goes up to.

 

[schuelma]

This source has Dawn of the New World up to 211K by now, though it's not clear exactly which week the data goes up to.

Josh, curious- what is that site?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Josh, curious- what is that site?

I don't know much about it, beyond that it found its way into my Sales bookmark folder.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Tales of the World is at 214K.

Of course, that was with a full year of reporting. (came out end of 06, last reporting was at the end of 07).

ToS:KoR was at 198K a month after release. I would be very surprised if it isn't above Tales of the World by now.

There was a TotW budget re-release, no numbers yet, the ToS2 211k is fairly new too. Still moot discussion here, a psx port beated them:

Tales of Eternia port - 249k
Tales of the World - 214k
Tales of Symphonia 2 - 211k
Tales of the Tempest - 206k
Tales of Innocence - 197k

I can't see how ToS2 performance would look better than any of those there other than Tempest. Btw, I love how its not called ToS2 anymore, so I'm calling it ToS2 in purpose.

 

[schuelma]

I can't see how ToS2 performance would look better than any of those there other than Tempest. Btw, I love how its not called ToS2 anymore, so I'm calling it ToS2 in purpose.

I never called it that, and neither did Namco.

 

[donny2112]

Josh, curious- what is that site?

It's a site that gets legitimate Famitsu numbers from their numerous publications, but they have a policy of slightly changing numbers here and there to prevent copying. :/

 

[schuelma]

It's a site that gets legitimate Famitsu numbers from their numerous publications, but they have a policy of slightly changing numbers here and there to prevent copying. :/

Thanks. Wonder when they got that ToS:KoR number.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Total software LTD's till 11/02/2008

But I've mixed Famitsu & Dengeki numbers.


Famitsu: From Launch - 08/03/2008
Dengeki: 08/04/2008 - 11/02/2008 (last 13 weeks)

	Software LTD

NDS	110.843.084
PSP	25.130.186
WII	24.161.804
PS3	7.043.254
360	3.540.713

Can you provide GameBoy's numbers please?

 

[Spiegel]

I never called it that, and neither did Namco.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7117379&postcount=268

I know this was before we knew anything about the game but...

 

[Bizzyb]

Not one Wii game....

Nintendo has totally ****ed up Holiday '08

I mean really Nintendo, Wii Music? Wii fucking Music??

Really?

 

[Parmenides]

Like you said, the PS2 is dying.

I don´t think so.PS2 is still alive and will be as long as publishers remain confused.Are PS2 owners waiting for price drops and Sony´s big guns?.Is Sony´s business model broken ? Final Fantasy,Gran Turismo,Winning Eleven and price cuts will tell.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

I never called it that, and neither did Namco.

I know, I meant GAF (/me looks at the official thread). Namco actually called it TOS-R, which is the one I used as soon as I read it in a magazine scan.

 

[inner-G]

I mean really Nintendo, Wii Music? Wii fucking Music??

Really?

Yes.

Really.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

Not one Wii game....

Nintendo has totally ****ed up Holiday '08

I mean really Nintendo, Wii Music? Wii fucking Music??

Really?

Have you forgotten about Animal Crossing as well?

 

[Knastluder]

Hello,

is someone able to give me a source or something else,where the average Nintendo DS
software sales are listed?I know that the average DS Software sells better in comparison to let`s say the PSP or PS2(if you compare the user base).Even a chart where the original IP was released on the GBA and more successful saleswise on the DS would be nice.



Thanks in advance.

 

[Bizzyb]

Have you forgotten about Animal Crossing as well?

you mean the DS remake? No I haven't forgotten it.
Is that one title supposed to change the fact Nintendo has totally ****ed up Holiday '08?

 

[schuelma]

you mean the DS remake? No I haven't forgotten it.
Is that one title supposed to change the fact Nintendo has totally ****ed up Holiday '08?

If we're talking strictly sales, Animal Crossing *in Japan* should be just fine for Nintendo.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

If we're talking strictly sales, Animal Crossing *in Japan* should be just fine for Nintendo.

Yeh, that's what I meant. This is sales we're talking after all, right?

 

[Captain Smoker]

Can you provide GameBoy's numbers please?

No idea, sorry. ^^

I've just total numbers for those systems.

 

[-Kh-]

I don´t think so.PS2 is still alive and will be as long as publishers remain confused.Are PS2 owners waiting for price drops and Sony´s big guns?.Is Sony´s business model broken ? Final Fantasy,Gran Turismo,Winning Eleven and price cuts will tell.

Does your SPACE BAR do not work after typing a period? :lol :lol :lol

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Hello,

is someone able to give me a source or something else,where the average Nintendo DS
software sales are listed?I know that the average DS Software sells better in comparison to let`s say the PSP or PS2(if you compare the user base).Even a chart where the original IP was released on the GBA and more successful saleswise on the DS would be nice.



Thanks in advance.

Here's all DS sales in the Garaph database greatest to least. Though since those tend to be incomplete and not all games even make the charts, it's not a perfect way of finding an average.

 

[-Kh-]

Can you provide GameBoy's numbers please?

If GBA works for you: 55,850,160

 

[Rock_Man]

Can you provide GameBoy's numbers please?

> 60 million. (GBA only)

PS2 is approaching 200 million.

 

[Dash Kappei]

I wonder why Canvas Curse gets no love, it's my favorite Kirby game...

Hell, it's one of the best DS games out there and for a long time the only one that really was build on the hardware strenghts, a shame it seems to have sold poorly in both NA and EU.

ps2 is approaching 200 million

:lol

 

[Minsc]

If we're talking strictly sales, Animal Crossing *in Japan* should be just fine for Nintendo.

I don't know, over time yes. But as far as stealing the spotlight for a holiday bump, I'm not entirely sure Animal Crossing Wii will pull your heavy hitting 1M+ sales opening week, or even half of that. It's more of a slow burner no? Not what you need for holiday sales, something more like DQIX would be more appropriate to dominate the holiday sales.

What did the other AC's open with anyway?

 

[Cipherr]

I don't know, over time yes. But as far as stealing the spotlight for a holiday bump, I'm not entirely sure Animal Crossing Wii will pull your heavy hitting 1M+ sales opening week, or even half of that. It's more of a slow burner no? Not what you need for holiday sales, something more like DQIX would be more appropriate to dominate the holiday sales.

What did the other AC's open with anyway?

WTH 1m+ opening week? If thats the bar to qualify then no console in Japan has shit coming for the holidays.

 

[donny2112]

Final Fantasy,Gran Turismo,Winning Eleven and price cuts will tell.

How will Final Fantasy, Gran Turismo, Winning Eleven, and price cuts be able to show if the PS2 is dying? You're not assuming brand loyalty is present and the majority of PS2 owners are just waiting to upgrade to the PS3 are you?

It's more of a slow burner no?

When a game first becomes a surprise hit, it tends to have pretty long legs. As more iterations come out, it gets weighted more and more heavily toward the first week sales. Animal Crossing Wii will still have long legs, but it's first week should show a lot more about its long-term performance than Wild World's did.