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[Stumpokapow]

You can say that every week and there is not a person here who doesn't already know that. KOEI, S-E, Konami etc... also know that.... but thanks for stating the obvious for us some more.

Now, what we are excited about is that Musou 5 is the highest selling title on the PS3 for the first day, we had the highest PS3 hardware (supposedly, will wait until MC confirms) that the system has had in a LONG time and after a long spell of bad news it's nice to have some positive news once in a while.

Comparing most things to the PS2 this gen for any console will be rather fruitless, especially in Japan, those days are over for consoles. The Wii won't do it, the PS3 won't do it and the 360 definitely won't do it.

So what I get from this post is that any sort of comparative analysis to last gen is worthless. We can't compare to the PS2. The XBOX was more of a joke in Japan than the NGAGE was in North America, so that's out. We can't compare to the Cube because that was a failure. We can't compare handhelds to consoles because they're different. We can't compare the PS3 to the Wii because the PS3 is in it for the long run / different audiences / when the price drops sales will go up.

I really think if Media Create threads are going to end up as glorified versions of what NPD threads have been (IE 25 pages of "NICE SALES FOR X" instead of actual analysis, because none can be performed), that'll be to the detriment of GAF.

 

[duckroll]

How much does the DS versions sold?

I think PoR did 29796 total. :lol

 

[tanod]

I really think if Media Create threads are going to end up as glorified versions of what NPD threads have been (IE 25 pages of "NICE SALES FOR X" instead of actual analysis, because none can be performed), that'll be to the detriment of GAF.

Media Create truly is the last bastion of pure Sales-Agers.

 

[Y2Kev]

Castlevania...obviously not good, but not bad? What does it usually do?

 

[msdstc]

So what I get from this post is that any sort of comparative analysis to last gen is worthless. We can't compare to the PS2. The XBOX was more of a joke in Japan than the NGAGE was in North America, so that's out. We can't compare to the Cube because that was a failure. We can't compare handhelds to consoles because they're different. We can't compare the PS3 to the Wii because the PS3 is in it for the long run / different audiences / when the price drops sales will go up.

I really think if Media Create threads are going to end up as glorified versions of what NPD threads have been (IE 25 pages of "NICE SALES FOR X" instead of actual analysis, because none can be performed), that'll be to the detriment of GAF.

you're not taking into account the biggest factor... handhelds. Like I said before, you never had a hand held market like we do right now. The DS is absolutley massive, you can see by sales most people go for that, and the psp doesn't do half bad either, so a lot of gamers may have transitioned to that.

edit- to add, handhelds aren't what they used to be as you obviously know they are far beyond. So please don't bring up GBA, which though it was popular couldn't get you 3d gaming. The psp/ds can give you graphics in some cases like MGSO on par with consoles.

 

[jrricky]

It's ahead, I believe.

Twilight Princess: 145K and 36K. Two week total of 181K.
Super Mario Galaxy: 256K and 78K. Two week total of 334K.

Make of that what you will.

It's comparing Famitsu numbers for TP to Media Create numbers for SMG because that's all I can find.

Man, cautiously disappointed in Galaxy's sales. WTF at Zelda's first day sales. Whats Zelda's LTD?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Castlevania...obviously not good, but not bad? What does it usually do?

A little better than usual, but I doubt it's spinning any bowties at Konami. Castlevania is a series that pretty clearly exists to serve the NA market.

 

[ethelred]

agreed.

What you have to look at is, it's not JUST PS3 that's selling like ass in Japan, as of late the wii also isn't selling all that great, albeit destroying the ps3, but not nearly up to par. Consoles are a bit dead right now, I think after games like VF5 or RR7 maybe sony had to worry about 3rd party, but with sales like DW6 doing 190k debut, that's not bad at all. This attracts more 3rd party studios to work on that PS3. Same goes for zack and wiki, the sales were a joke, what does that tell devs about the wii? That's why this news on the ps3 is so great, regardless of how well the others sold, it shows once the momentum is there it can truly sell great, they just need to get more games out, and I don't mean 1 big game, than 3 months, another big game and then another 3 months. I mean like next year when DMC4, RE5, and GT5P all come out around the same time, the momentum will be hard to stop.

HOLY JESUS FOR THE LOVE OF PERIODS, punctuate you sick bastard!

 

[schuelma]

Ok, so our next fun debate will commence Friday morning for 1st day RE:UC sales.

What are we expecting? What would represent a positive for Nintendo?

 

[mutsu]

agreed.

What you have to look at is, it's not JUST PS3 that's selling like ass in Japan, as of late the wii also isn't selling all that great, albeit destroying the ps3, but not nearly up to par. Consoles are a bit dead right now, I think after games like VF5 or RR7 maybe sony had to worry about 3rd party, but with sales like DW6 doing 190k debut, that's not bad at all. This attracts more 3rd party studios to work on that PS3. Same goes for zack and wiki, the sales were a joke, what does that tell devs about the wii? That's why this news on the ps3 is so great, regardless of how well the others sold, it shows once the momentum is there it can truly sell great, they just need to get more games out, and I don't mean 1 big game, than 3 months, another big game and then another 3 months. I mean like next year when DMC4, RE5, and GT5P all come out around the same time, the momentum will be hard to stop.

You are not comparing a well established, million selling franchise (on the PS2) targeted to the hardcore crowd with a fresh new franchise target towards the casuals, are you?

 

[Y2Kev]

A little better than usual, but I doubt it's spinning any bowties at Konami. Castlevania is a series that pretty clearly exists to serve the NA market.

Maybe there is hope for more actionvania.

 

[VultureDude]

oh man, I take back anything I ever said about the Wii making a big come back. Other than Wii Fit, it's all doom and gloom; doom and gloom...

 

[Grecco]

Ok, so our next fun debate will commence Friday morning for 1st day RE:UC sales.

What are we expecting? What would represent a positive for Nintendo?

A bomb. On Rail shooters always do. But it will be spun as OMG CORE GAMERZ DONT BUY WIIS

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Dang, Ratchet

I kept hearing that series was popular in Japan or something

At 562K the original was I believe the biggest action platformer on PS2, but none of the sequels did even half as well. The various games had first weeks ranging from 50-88K.

Why do Japanese developers support the 360 again?

Because of the 95% of the X360 audience not in Japan.

How many Wii owners to-date? How many DS owners to-date?

Mario Party on DS and Wii started bigger than SMG.

FFTA2 is doing pretty good for itself. I dont know how it compares to the other FFT games

Worse than all of them.

Oh i see what you are getting at. The thing is that platformer game sales are a shadow of its former self in japan since the n64 days. What was the last platformer that did well in Japan that was 3d?

Super Mario Sunshine or Super Mario 64 DS?

What you have to look at is, it's not JUST PS3 that's selling like ass in Japan, as of late the wii also isn't selling all that great, albeit destroying the ps3, but not nearly up to par.

It's recently been doing as subpar as PS2 in 2003.

Man, cautiously disappointed in Galaxy's sales. WTF at Zelda's first day sales. Whats Zelda's LTD?

Those are first week, not first day. Zelda being a launch game, it didn't have many people to sell to week one. Zelda being a launch game that wasn't Wii Sports, it wasn't the main attention-grabber. Last we saw it, it was up to ~530K.

 

[Draft]

A little better than usual, but I doubt it's spinning any bowties at Konami. Castlevania is a series that pretty clearly exists to serve the NA market.

You know I am totally down with "spinning any bowties" as a metaphor for excitement.

 

[schuelma]

A bomb. On Rail shooters always do. But it will be spun as OMG CORE GAMERZ DONT BUY WIIS

I disagree. It is an on rails shooter, but its an on rails shooter with a shitload of fanservice built in. I think it does well- maybe 250-300K lifetime?

 

[Stumpokapow]

you're not taking into account the biggest factor... handhelds. Like I said before, you never had a hand held market like we do right now. The DS is absolutley massive, you can see by sales most people go for that, and the psp doesn't do half bad either, so a lot of gamers may have transitioned to that.

(a) I'm primarily a handheld gamer, (b) I've been reading these threads since before they were weekly events and posting in them for almost a year and a half, and (c) I've repeatedly posted over the last several months about the market shifts in Japan as they relate to this stuff.

Which doesn't change a thing about what I said. I don't think it's productive or fruitful to suddenly drop all analysis of sales and just revert to cavemen hooting and hollering at each week's data just because the market has shifted in a way that makes people uncomfortable to discuss the frank reality that in all cases, the PS3 is a massive decline over the previous generation of consoles, and that in some but not all cases, the Wii has had some spectacular disappointments (Twilight Princess, Big Brain Academy, Strikers, Galaxy) and occasionally bombs (Dewey, Zack and Wiki, DBZBT3).

 

[msdstc]

You are not comparing a well established, million selling franchise (on the PS2) with a fresh new franchise are you?

of course I'm not. You took that wrong. Ok basically capcom and websites, such as IGN were touting this as "wii's game to have". This is obviously normal all companies will do this. I expected the game to possibly be a nice new IP for nintendo, but that wasn't the case. I'm saying if a game doesn't sell well on a certain console it scares a developer away from working on said console. In this case I used Zack and Wiki as an example. For the ps3 you could say Gundam Musou didn't meet expectations, so they ported it ( for the record, it didn't tank, and if you do classify it as a tank it didn't tank nearly as hard as Z&W). For established games, one example was VF5 for ps3 which did HORRIBLE. The best I can think of for wii is SMG which is selling nowhere near what it was expected.

 

[Lucky]

So by this logic no software for the ps3 can be a failure since the console itself is an utter failure?

:lol That's what they should tell shareholders.

 

[ethelred]

A bomb. On Rail shooters always do. But it will be spun as OMG CORE GAMERZ DONT BUY WIIS

so we can write off as meaningless the sales of:
• rail shooters
• platformers that look a bit too kiddy but aren't by Nintendo
• RPGs with odd art styles
• point & click adventures
• flagship first party series
• Atlus arcade-style puzzle/action games
• ???

Check.

What can we look at as a possible indicator? Is NiGHTS out of bounds? Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon 3? Just curious.

 

[schuelma]

so we can write off as meaningless the sales of:
• rail shooters
• platformers that look a bit too kiddy but aren't by Nintendo
• RPGs with odd art styles
• point & click adventures
• flagship first party series
• ???

Check.

Games that also appear on the PS2

 

[jj984jj]

08. [NDS] DS Nishimura Kyotarou Suspense Detective Series: Deadly Intent (Tecmo) - 13,000 / 129,000

Tecmo must me really happy about this, I wonder if they'll localize it.

 

[Lightning]

JoshuaJSlone, were there any PSP Ratchet games and how did they do in Japan?

 

[msdstc]

(a) I'm primarily a handheld gamer, (b) I've been reading these threads since before they were weekly events and posting in them for almost a year and a half, and (c) I've repeatedly posted over the last several months about the market shifts in Japan as they relate to this stuff.

Which doesn't change a thing about what I said. I don't think it's productive or fruitful to suddenly drop all analysis of sales and just revert to cavemen hooting and hollering at each week's data just because the market has shifted in a way that makes people uncomfortable to discuss the frank reality that in all cases, the PS3 is a massive decline over the previous generation of consoles, and that in some but not all cases, the Wii has had some spectacular disappointments (Twilight Princess, Big Brain Academy, Strikers, Galaxy) and occasionally bombs (Dewey, Zack and Wiki, DBZBT3).

you're missing that I totally agree that ps3 is selling like absolute shit. You're also missing that I said wii isn't selling that great at all either. Ok so you can say sure it's doing better than the cube... but what didn't? Wii was cruising just fine, but a few months ago it came down pretty consistently, since then it hasn't done good at all, in fact it's done lousy. There is a decline in consoles in general that can't be overlooked. No one is denying the ps3 is doing shit. I like to think of the ps3 fans as positive at this time... since e3 06 it's just been bad news after bad news, BUT the past few months have been good. When ever something good like this happens, it reassures people like me, our investment won't goto waste.

 

[Stumpokapow]

JoshuaJSlone, were there any PSP Ratchet games and how did they do in Japan?

Yes, one, it did 85k.

 

[Grecco]

I disagree. It is an on rails shooter, but its an on rails shooter with a shitload of fanservice built in. I think it does well- maybe 250-300K lifetime?

Meh the RE on rail shooters had fan service too. So what.

Check.

What can we look at as a possible indicator? Is NiGHTS out of bounds? Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon 3? Just curious.

Possible indicator for what. Core gamer sales? Monster Hunter 3 and Smash Brothers Brawl.

 

[Zen]

Only "Sony fanboys of the week" who wandered into Media Create threads proclaiming that salvation was just around the corner with the release of (Gundam Musou, Virtua Fighter 5, Mina no Golf 5, Ninja Gaiden Sigma, Lair, Heavenly Sword, Ratchet and Clank Future, Time Crisis 4, Metal Gear Solid 4, Devil May Cry 4) actually thought R&C would sell.

Franchises are seeing at least a 50% decline from PS2 to PS3, and Ratchet didn't sell worth shit on the PS2.

I seem to remember the PS2 iterations sold around 200k. I might be wrong?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

JoshuaJSlone, were there any PSP Ratchet games and how did they do in Japan?

Man, I thought you were a Sony fan. Of course there's been a PSP Ratchet game.

 

[schuelma]

Possible indicator for what. Core gamer sales? Monster Hunter 3 and Smash Brothers Brawl.

Wait, so only two of the BIGGEST series in Japan qualify as valid measures of core gamer sales?

Bull

 

[Stumpokapow]

you're missing that I totally agree that ps3 is selling like absolute shit. You're also missing that I said wii isn't selling that great at all either. Ok so you can say sure it's doing better than the cube... but what didn't? Wii was cruising just fine, but a few months ago it came down pretty consistently, since then it hasn't done good at all, in fact it's done lousy.

As Joshua pointed out, even at the Wii's lowest point, it's still doing around what the PS2 was doing in 2003.

When ever something good like this happens, it reassures people like me, our investment won't goto waste.

It's great that good news does this for you. But I really don't post in these threads for any reason other than actual sales analysis. I am not a fanboy, I am a person actually interested in analyzing the numbers regardless of what they say.

I seem to remember the PS2 iterations sold around 200k. I might be wrong?

550k for R&C, Around 200k-300k for all subsequent installments. By "they didn't sell worth shit", I did not mean that in the absolute scale, I meant that in the context of people announcing R&CF as a game that would lift the PS3 up. Relative to "heavy hitter" franchises, they did not sell worth shit.

 

[ethelred]

JoshuaJSlone, were there any PSP Ratchet games and how did they do in Japan?

Ask and ye shall receive.

Name:			Sys:	1st Week:	2nd Week:	3rd Week:	LTD:
Ratchet & Clank		PS2  	49,733  	60,850  	83,900  	538,029
Ratchet & Clank 2 	PS2 	61,436 		35,957 		38,837 		223,535
Ratchet & Clank 3	PS2 	77,373 		25,591 		20,323 		274,188
Ratchet & Clank 4	PS2 	88,497 		19,630 		14,324 		233,375
Ratchet & Clank PSP	PSP 	39,529 		16,724 		10,271 		78,073 
Ratchet & Clank 5	PS3	11,000

 

[jrricky]

agreed.

What you have to look at is, it's not JUST PS3 that's selling like ass in Japan, as of late the wii also isn't selling all that great, albeit destroying the ps3, but not nearly up to par. Consoles are a bit dead right now, I think after games like VF5 or RR7 maybe sony had to worry about 3rd party, but with sales like DW6 doing 190k debut, that's not bad at all. This attracts more 3rd party studios to work on that PS3. Same goes for zack and wiki, the sales were a joke, what does that tell devs about the wii? That's why this news on the ps3 is so great, regardless of how well the others sold, it shows once the momentum is there it can truly sell great, they just need to get more games out, and I don't mean 1 big game, than 3 months, another big game and then another 3 months. I mean like next year when DMC4, RE5, and GT5P all come out around the same time, the momentum will be hard to stop.

why the heck is Z&W in that comparison? If you're going to use Z&W use a new IP for PS3 as well, or the other way around.

 

[Jonnyram]

Anecdotal sales news:

Biohazard UC Zapper bundle is sold out everywhere I went at lunchtime :O
Maybe it could do quite well. I even saw some poor fool fondling a Ghost Squad Zapper bundle while holding individual BH:UC in the other hand. But his intelligence finally got the better of him and he put both back on the shelf. Will check my local store tonight. They usually have shitloads more than other stores.

 

[duckroll]

I seem to remember the PS2 iterations sold around 200k. I might be wrong?

You are wrong.

Edit: Brain fart. Thought you were talking about Musou. Damn, sorry.

 

[schuelma]

Anecdotal sales news:

Biohazard UC Zapper bundle is sold out everywhere I went at lunchtime :O
Maybe it could do quite well. I even saw some poor fool fondling a Ghost Squad Zapper bundle while holding individual BH:UC in the other hand. But his intelligence finally got the better of him and he put both back on the shelf. Will check my local store tonight. They usually have shitloads more than other stores.

Interesting- that and the stand alone have also been sold out on Amazon (stand along just went back up tonight).

Could we actually have a Wii 3rd party success story?

 

[Lightning]

Man, I thought you were a Sony fan. Of course there's been a PSP Ratchet game.

I am not up on the early PSP games, I only got mine recently. :lol

 

[msdstc]

why the heck is Z&W in that comparison? If you're going to use Z&W use a new IP for PS3 as well, or the other way around.

so damn ignorant. You're the second one to say that, I stated that it was a misunderstanding and provided an explanation for what I meant, had you scrolled down just a bit you'd have seen that.

 

[gray_fox224]

360 having another game in the top 5?

Wow.

 

[Jonnyram]

So will Musou 5 be like Musou or Musou 2?

Shin Sangoku Musou (2000/08/03) 164,427 / 330,772
Shin Sangoku Musou 2 (2001/09/20) 240,980 / 1,042,819
Shin Sangoku Musou 2 Moushouden (2002/08/29) 284,789 / 727,488
Shin Sangoku Musou 3 (2003/02/27) 723,127 / 1,197,349
Shin Sangoku Musou 3 Moushouden (2003/09/25) 265,489 / 531,303
Shin Sangoku Musou 3 Empires (2004/03/18) 153,045 / 316,763
Shin Sangoku Musou 4 (2005/02/24) 560,733 / 917,985
Shin Sangoku Musou 4 Moushouden (2005/09/15) 196,356 / 355,296

Sengoku Musou (2004/02/11) 620,893 / 1,024,253
Sengoku Musou Moushouden (2004/09/16) 190,358 / 376,225
Sengoku Musou 2 (2006/02/24) 301,044 / 562,320
Sengoku Musou 2 Moushouden (2007/08/23) 175,598 / 286,266

Musou Orochi (2007/03/21) 377,507 / 627,756

 

[Stumpokapow]

I am not up on the early PSP games, I only got mine recently. :lol

Can I cash in on this quote to prove that I am not a hysterical anti-Sony fanboy like I was called twice so far in this thread? I've had a PSP for substantially longer than Lightning. I'm practically Tabris.

 

[reilo]

Can I cash in on this quote to prove that I am not a hysterical anti-Sony fanboy like I was called twice so far in this thread? I've had a PSP for substantially longer than Lightning. I'm practically Tabris.

You still suck at sales analysis, though.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I am not up on the early PSP games, I only got mine recently. :lol

It's a great game, GIT ON IT fool!

 

[ivysaur12]

Galaxy

 

[Lightning]

So will Musou 5 be like Musou or Musou 2?

Shin Sangoku Musou (2000/08/03) 164,427 / 330,772
Shin Sangoku Musou 2 (2001/09/20) 240,980 / 1,042,819
Shin Sangoku Musou 2 Moushouden (2002/08/29) 284,789 / 727,488
Shin Sangoku Musou 3 (2003/02/27) 723,127 / 1,197,349
Shin Sangoku Musou 3 Moushouden (2003/09/25) 265,489 / 531,303
Shin Sangoku Musou 3 Empires (2004/03/18) 153,045 / 316,763
Shin Sangoku Musou 4 (2005/02/24) 560,733 / 917,985
Shin Sangoku Musou 4 Moushouden (2005/09/15) 196,356 / 355,296

Sengoku Musou (2004/02/11) 620,893 / 1,024,253
Sengoku Musou Moushouden (2004/09/16) 190,358 / 376,225
Sengoku Musou 2 (2006/02/24) 301,044 / 562,320
Sengoku Musou 2 Moushouden (2007/08/23) 175,598 / 286,266

Musou Orochi (2007/03/21) 377,507 / 627,756

I am hoping for at least Musou 3 figures on the PS3 alone. Over the holidays with bundles FTW?

It's a great game, GIT ON IT fool!

Most definitely, I love me some portable Ratchet.

 

[jrricky]

so damn ignorant. You're the second one to say that, I stated that it was a misunderstanding and provided an explanation for what I meant, had you scrolled down just a bit you'd have seen that.

My point still stands cause I still didnt see a new IP comparison in your second response.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

so we can write off as meaningless the sales of:
• rail shooters
• platformers that look a bit too kiddy but aren't by Nintendo
• RPGs with odd art styles
• point & click adventures
• flagship first party series
• Atlus arcade-style puzzle/action games
• ???

Check.

What can we look at as a possible indicator? Is NiGHTS out of bounds? Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon 3? Just curious.

Howz about any gamey games?

With the sales of Mario Galaxy being so low I think it's safe to say that Core gamer games aren't going to drive the Wii. The only thing that will boost Wii sales to the strata in Japan seem to be the elusively dubbed "nongames".

American and Euro Wii owners seem to like an expansive breadth of titles, but current Wii owners in Japan seem to stick to very specific types. As of now I see no "core" gamer console in Japan. The DS seems to have lapped up all of those gamers.

 

[sphinx]

I think I understand what is happening with the Wii in Japan.

could it be that people see the Wii mainly as a multiplayer console? I am seeing a trend that games that are " tremendously fun " on multiplayer are getting the good sales. Maybe wii owners don't like single player adventures like Zelda and Mario games?

Mario party 8 having better sales overall than galaxy would make me say " what the fuck is wrong with you people?!?!?!? " if I was miyamoto.

Seeing how the early reports of RE:UC indicate that it will sell well, It ocurred to me that it may be on the back of a fun, interesting co-op multiplayer mode.

how does my theory sound?

 

[Dahbomb]

Oh boy.... I can't wait for the hardware numbers if the software numbers are getting people all riled up. So much hatred here. :lol

 

[-WindYoshi-]

- Surprising PS3 software numbers bring good outlook for MGS4 and FFXIII.

- Super Mario Galaxy will have strange, uppity, downity, legs.

- Relax.

 

[Tron 2.0]

WTF at Zelda's first day sales.

First week's sales.

Whats Zelda's LTD?

506,074 LTD in Japan.

Again, Famitsu. Last updated 25.06.07. Only counting the Wii.