PhoenixDark
Banned
Hardware sells suggest PS2 fans have jumped to the PSP instead of the PS3. Interesting
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Media Create Sales 2/25 - 3/2
- Thread starter Cheesemeister
- Start date
Spiegel said:
That was not my point. My point was that even after 3months of release both games (FF4 und DQ4 which obviously sold more than FFVIICC) are still charting. And you know that when a low budget outsourced remake like FFIV sells comparable to an in-house FF7 game that was released with a system relaunch which of both games was actually more inline their expectations. DQ4 is a straight port of the PSX version and you know its sales...
It would be crazy if FF4 manages to reach FFVII sales after a much lower start than FF3 (millionseller in Japan) the chances are abysmal but it would be fun...
AnimeTheme said:
CCFFVII sold 700k at a time when the PSP had a userbase of 6m. That's like a 2,5m seller on the DS today... a rather bad example of a game doing badly.
In general we should note that the PSP has sold 3,5m units since one year ago. That's 40% of its entire userbase in Japan since 2004. So what was true in late 2006 must not be true today.
PhoenixDark said:
I guess they left their desire to purchase tons of games on the PS2, though. Ooops.
A CC:FFVII to FFIV DS comparison is ridiculous on multiple levels, but just to silence one of the lines ...
CC:FFVII stayed in the Famitsu Top 30 for 8 weeks from launch.
FFIV DS stayed in the Famitsu Top 30 for 6 weeks from launch.
iidesuyo said:
FYI, individual game tie ratios are useless as a measure of success for that game.
Stormbringer
Member
donny2112 said:
Haha, yeah, sorry about that. GAF > 2ch.
Rancid Mildew
Banned
iidesuyo said:
This kind of linear scaling doesn't work. Crisis Core wouldn't have done 2.5 million on any platform ever created even if the PSP's user base was 21 million.
Pureauthor
Member
RpgN said:
You're right. The fact that PSP games by and large fail to move units means that PSP games are selling horrible.
Fine. Eliminate the DS from the equation if you want. Now stack the PSP against every other 'winner' system in history and see how its software sales fare.
How little is 'a little effort'? If the PSP is 'very successful', then it shouldn't be a problem to rattle a sizable list of recent games that has seen success on it, no?
AnimeTheme
Member
Pureauthor said:
Maybe you can try the same for NDS for 2008 so far.
vanguardian1
poor, homeless and tasteless
nm.
The PSP is currently on a stunning streak of high-quality releases (in the US) that rivals the best periods of DS software in terms of quality. Remember in mid 2006 when DS was getting must-have games one after another with little room to breathe? Well, PSP is experiencing a scaled-down version of that right now.
... But it will not be reflected in sales. It's important to clarify that PSP's software situation is very GOOD from a consumer's point of view- great games on a regular basis at a decent price. But it's middling to poor from a developer's point of view because the sales don't scale well with other competing systems, and not just DS: PS2, Wii, and even PS3 can look like more appealing development environments for some of PSP's best game concepts.
It's not a fucking disaster like some were predicting last year but PSP software sales in general are not completely healthy, and you must have your head in the sand to think otherwise.
... But it will not be reflected in sales. It's important to clarify that PSP's software situation is very GOOD from a consumer's point of view- great games on a regular basis at a decent price. But it's middling to poor from a developer's point of view because the sales don't scale well with other competing systems, and not just DS: PS2, Wii, and even PS3 can look like more appealing development environments for some of PSP's best game concepts.
It's not a fucking disaster like some were predicting last year but PSP software sales in general are not completely healthy, and you must have your head in the sand to think otherwise.
AnimeTheme said:
Just look at the weekly software charts so far.
For example the recent one.
NDS - 22
PS2 - 9
WII - 9
PSP - 5
PS3 - 4
360 - 1
04./00. [NDS] Soma Bringer (Nintendo) - 50,844 / NEW
06./02. [NDS] Etrian Odyssey II: The Royal Grail (Atlus) - 24,664 / 94,000
08./05. [NDS] Harvest Moon: Shining Sun and Friends (Marvelous Entertainment) - 22,213 / 67,000
11./00. [NDS] Keroro Gunsou 3: Adventure in the Sky! (Bandai-Namco)
14./10. [NDS] Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games (Nintendo)
15./00. [NDS] Jirou Akagawa Mystery: Nocturne: The Invited Killer (Marvelous Entertainment)
18./14. [NDS] Mario Party DS (Nintendo)
19./27. [NDS] Mario Kart DS (Nintendo)
20./28. [NDS] Taiko Drum Master DS (Bandai-Namco)
21./20. [NDS] New Super Mario Bros. (Nintendo)
26./13. [NDS] Tokimeki Memorial: Girl's Side 2nd Season (Konami)
28./34. [NDS] Animal Crossing Wild World (Nintendo)
29./32. [NDS] Prof. Layton and Pandora's Box (Level 5)
30./25. [NDS] Naruto: Shippuuden Dairansen! Kage Bunshin Emaki (Takara-Tomy)
32./19. [NDS] L, the Prologue to Death Note: Rasen's Trap (Konami)
33./38. [NDS] Final Fantasy IV (Square-Enix)
34./36. [NDS] Dragon Quest IV (Square-Enix)
35./42. [NDS] Kanji Brain Test 2.5M (IE Institute)
41./50. [NDS] Doraemon Baseball: Dramatic Stadium (Bandai-Namco)
43./33. [NDS] Digimon Championship (Bandai-Namco)
45./46. [NDS] Prof. Layton and the Curious Village (Level 5)
46./00. [NDS] DS Literature Collection (Nintendo)
For comparison the PSP one
07./04. [PSP] Musou Orochi (Koei) - 24,350 / 71,000
16./16. [PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 2nd (Capcom)
24./22. [PSP] Mobile Suit Gundam: Gihren's Ambition, The Axis' Threat (Bandai-Namco)
25./30. [PSP] World Soccer Winning Eleven: Ubiquitous Evolution 2008 (Konami)
42./00. [PSP] MyStylist (Sony)
07./04. [PSP] Musou Orochi (Koei) - 24,350 / 71,000
16./16. [PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 2nd (Capcom)
24./22. [PSP] Mobile Suit Gundam: Gihren's Ambition, The Axis' Threat (Bandai-Namco)
25./30. [PSP] World Soccer Winning Eleven: Ubiquitous Evolution 2008 (Konami)
42./00. [PSP] MyStylist (Sony)
AnimeTheme
Member
The Sphinx said:
Not true when considering (recent) Japan alone.
Laguna said:
Those were pretty much all the major releases recently. Besides "MyStylist" (wtf?) they have all done well. WE PSP should easily double the WE Wii numbers.
And what Third Party games on DS have achieved the sales of MHP2? I can't think of much, probably some FF or DQ remakes.
iidesuyo said:
You might want to take a look at this thread, as it seems Dalthien is updating the numbers accordingly.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177723
iidesuyo
Quit making this silly comparisons. Monster Hunter is a phenomon with amazing sales and legs. After this series only Final Fantasy Vii with 700k-800k is in (distant) reach on PSP. On NDS we have all Nintendos mega sellers 3-5million sellers + million sellers from different publishers + other very successful games like Layton with sales around 700-800k. Please stop making a fool of yourself, NDS sales are in an different league than PSP all your denial won´t change a thing.
Quit making this silly comparisons. Monster Hunter is a phenomon with amazing sales and legs. After this series only Final Fantasy Vii with 700k-800k is in (distant) reach on PSP. On NDS we have all Nintendos mega sellers 3-5million sellers + million sellers from different publishers + other very successful games like Layton with sales around 700-800k. Please stop making a fool of yourself, NDS sales are in an different league than PSP all your denial won´t change a thing.
D.Lo
Member
The PS3 has done amazingly well considering Nintendo have been the ONLY name in home console sales for like 20 years. Nobody expected the PS3 to dominate, as Nintendo has the massive advantage of the huge GameCube userbase that all just moved over onto the Wii, especially since it even had a GCN cartridge...er...disc slot. Sony has done brilliantly just to break into the market that was once a monopoly. The PS3 isn't a failure, as Nintendo have lost market share, and Sony are set up to do a lot better next time now thay have a brand and experience in the home console market.Pimpwerx said:Wii = DS. PS3 = PSP. Slow start, but we'll be claiming a moral victory in a year or two.PEACE.
Also, wait until Cristalis Core: FFXIII, then PS3 sales will skyrocket.
Psychotext
Member
:lolD.Lo said:
Kurosaki Ichigo
Member
Recently? Pretty much the problem would be to list those that tanked. Problem for PSP is that it doesn't sell software anywhere as much as hardware, basically it has very low tie ratios, I'm sure you guys know the Kanon game by now. Taking recent titles individually benefits PSP greatly, since many of them since Slim introduction have done very well.Pureauthor said:
CitizenCope
Member
:lolD.Lo said:
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
C.T. said:
I already told him that before in this exact thread.
Let's remember how this conversation started:
- Randoms yell "PSP PIRACY RUINS PSP SALES"
- I say "Well, given that the DS is easier to pirate than the PSP, why isn't it ruining DS sales?"
- Randoms take issue with the fact that I said DS sales were great across the board
- I prove that DS sales are great across the board with reference to some excellent data we have.
- Randoms cite examples of good selling PSP games as proof that PSP game sales in general are good. Randoms cite examples of poor selling DS games as proof that DS sales are not great. Neither of these bears out under actual examination of games.
At this point, the fact that PSP software sales are in general poor and that DS software sales are in general brilliant (for third parties AND first party) is moot. It's been mulled over two hundred times, and I'm astounded that anyone has not yet been convinced of this.
So, to get back to the original conversation;
Given that it's easier to pirate DS games (R4 is easier than Pandora, games are smaller to download and more can fit on the stick, R4 is cheaper than Pandora+big memory stick, information is just as widely available, R4 is available in as many or more stores than Pandora kits or info books for CFW)
Given that the PSP piracy hypothesis assumes that casual games and niche games are more affected by piracy than AAA titles (since the hypothesis must deal with the reality that AAA games still sell on the PSP but non-AAA titles aren't selling) even though in every platform in history the exact opposite situation has been true.
Why is piracy not impacting the DS so substantially?
There are three possibilities:
- The DS is being impacted by piracy as much as the PSP--in which case, the DS's stratospheric software sales are even more amazing. Why, Pokemon may have sold 15 million instead of 5 million without piracy! If this is the case, then the question becomes "Why have other easily pirateable systems managed to sell software well in spite of priacy, while the PSP fails because of piracy?"
- The DS is not being impacted by piracy and the PSP is--in which case, we assume that the rate of piracy has nothing to do with availability or ease of piracy. Piracy rates are just completely random and pirates have randomly decided that the PSP is the place to go. If this is the case, then the question becomes "How is this even a coherent claim if it's completely irrational and can't be verified? Why are we accepting the PSP piracy hypothesis?"
- The PSP, while impacted by piracy, is failing to move software for an entirely different reason. I support this idea, since it's the most coherent of the three. What other reason? Well, I've suggested a fair few in many different threads. Buying for media capabilities (IE Sony's marketing strategy worked!), buying as a second system (hence the high sales for AAA titles, but still weak sales overall), general lack of satisfaction by Japanese consumers in the library--I personally enjoy the library a good deal, but it's certainly a possibility that consumers are not, higher game prices encourage a larger used market which is already a huge factor in any Japanese market; all of these things don't really apply to the DS and thus explain the discrepancy in software sales without resorting to the canard of piracy.
AnimeTheme
Member
AnimeTheme said:
Self-answering time lol
http://joshuajamesslone.name/gamecharting/sqldirect.php?queryid=399
http://joshuajamesslone.name/gamecharting/sqldirect.php?queryid=402
Fami top 30: 2008-1-1 to 2008-2-15 (number in bracket is 3rd party)
NDS - 1,135,939 (463,885)
PSP - 420,656 (389,664)
Last year data for comparison:
http://joshuajamesslone.name/gamecharting/sqldirect.php?queryid=400
http://joshuajamesslone.name/gamecharting/sqldirect.php?queryid=401
Fami top 30: 2007-1-1 to 2007-2-15 (number in bracket is 3rd party)
NDS - 4,576,880 (1,577,118)
PSP - 330,348 (330,348)
You don't need to buy specialized hardware for PSP hax. That's the key difference.
Sure, you need a Pandora battery to install CFW on the Slim, but you don't need to BUY one. You can borrow it from a friend, and someone with a Fat can make one for you from just a standard battery. It's like the PS3 Memory Card adapter: you probably only need it once, certainly not all the time.
R4 on the other hand CANNOT be constructed from stock parts and MUST be present at all times to run emulators/etc. on DS. I think that's the key difference. PSP CFW can be communal, with one experienced CFW user unlocking many other people's PSPs even after the Slim revision. DS hacking requires more investment by each individual owner.
The other two factors are that PSP has a reputation for being the emulator machine and... well... if you're going to pick a system to run emulators on wouldn't you prefer the PSP for more powerful hardware and a better screen?
EDIT: A caveat, my knowledge of both PSP and DS unlocking is vague. Please don't crucify me if I'm wrong on specifics.
Sure, you need a Pandora battery to install CFW on the Slim, but you don't need to BUY one. You can borrow it from a friend, and someone with a Fat can make one for you from just a standard battery. It's like the PS3 Memory Card adapter: you probably only need it once, certainly not all the time.
R4 on the other hand CANNOT be constructed from stock parts and MUST be present at all times to run emulators/etc. on DS. I think that's the key difference. PSP CFW can be communal, with one experienced CFW user unlocking many other people's PSPs even after the Slim revision. DS hacking requires more investment by each individual owner.
The other two factors are that PSP has a reputation for being the emulator machine and... well... if you're going to pick a system to run emulators on wouldn't you prefer the PSP for more powerful hardware and a better screen?
EDIT: A caveat, my knowledge of both PSP and DS unlocking is vague. Please don't crucify me if I'm wrong on specifics.
AnimeTheme
Member
Laguna said:What reason lies behind excluding 1st/2nd party sales? Fanboyism? Because Sonys recent games didn´t sell at all on PSP? - again - Fanboyism?
Every 3rd party must be some kind of retarded fanboy when 1st party sales mean shit to them.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
The Sphinx said:
But the assumption is that you have people in your kinship circle that has a hacked PSP.
Many of my family have PSPs, but all of us USE the Sony Firmware.
Azelover
Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
iidesuyo said:Best selling Third Party game Dragon Quest Joker at ~1,5m
MHP2 is at 1,6m
Holy Shit MHP2 has really sold more than any DS Third Party game?? O_O
This will only last until DQIX though
You people don't give first party enough credit though, third party sales are important but in general these games go whichever way the wind blows.
If you're first party and you hit the target directly with the audience through your own software, you've got quite a bit more leverage to sustain your position than you would if a third party was doing it for you. Third party is important but first party is also important, in the end the games have to have impact no matter where they come from. Sony led an era of third parties with the PS1/2 which we have become used to, but I think we might be re-entering a first party era now, and that's fine.
Anime-Theme said:
This is just a fanboy meme and a dumb excuse from producers who fail to make compelling games. It´s like saying Sony would be dumb to look at overall sales on their consoles, they should only look at sales from games which were released by Sony. That is just dumb, incorrect and a result of fanboyism and from producers side excuses for their incorrect decisions.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
The Sphinx said:
Don't treat this as a crucifixion. This is just my insight on the situation:
In order to pirate UMDs, you'll need at least a 1 gig memory stick--4 or 8 is more realistic for people who are pirating. The price of this memory stick is essentially identical to an R4 with more space than you'd ever need.
Even if you have a friend who is able to do your battery or CFW, you still need to buy the stick... and if you're saying "Yeah, but anyone can buy a Memory Stick"--anyone can buy an R4 and suddenly the "dedicated hardware" advantage is gone.
But let's assume you're too stupid to buy a memory stick or an R4. If you're that dumb and you need your friend to do your battery and get your memory stick. If that friend has the time to do everyone's CFW and get them all hooked up with memory sticks, he has the time to get everyone an R4.
If you don't have a friend, CFW can be very confusing to navigate all the (mostly english and russian) CFW sites to figure out your proper upgrade path. Some games might not work without certain firmwares. You might need to buy one of those "HOW TO PIRATE PSP" books... of course, if you do this you can easily just buy an R4, which doesn't require any books or instructions.
Plus, UMDs are substantially larger. People download PSP games. For the DS, you don't download games, you download packs of hundreds of games. It's feasible to take the entire worthwhile DS library with you with a large card. It's not feasible to take more than a few PSP titles with you.
Stores in Japan and most of the rest of Asia readily advertise "R4 DS Memory Card; *wink wink*". Actually, most of Asia would just say "R4 DS + 1000 DS games". You really underestimate the prevalence of piracy resource in Asia.
But let's actually assume that you're right and that the minor difference is correct and that the PSP is easier to pirate than the DS. Do you really think the difference is so significant that it explains why piracy "does not affect DS sales at all" and simultaneously "destroys PSP sales"? Is piracy on the PSP so many orders of magnitude easier than piracy on the DS?
And let's ask again--in all other consoles ever, piracy impacts best-selling titles as much or more than casual titles because pirates tend to be more tech-savvy and game-y and downloads tend to be based on games that are wanted. Why is it that the PSP has awesome AAA sales and very very very very poor median sales? Why is piracy the complete inverse on the PSP that it is on other systems?
I'm a new PS3 owner and I connected my PSP to it for the 1st time yesterday. Let me tell you these PSP sales have to translate into PS3 sales someday, as the connexion/integration between the 2 devices is purely awesome. I'm now a believer. PS3 needs some more big hits to sell on par with the Wii, but casual games like LBP and Afrika are coming, and it's pretty guarranted sales will rise from this current hell.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Kiriku said:
1. So you think there's a demographic that the DS doesn't hit? Even though it is the best selling system ever (give or take on the GB/GBC sales split) and has probably one of the most diverse libraries ever?
2. If piracy is so arcane that only a specific demographic knows how to do it, why is it that the sort of titles that would generally appeal more to that demographic are still doing fine on the PSP while the rest of those titles suffer?
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
marc^o^ said:
I rather have games like Valkyria Chronicles do gangbusters
AnimeTheme
Member
Stumpokapow said:
MS is far more easily accessible than a R4 though. Some people may even already have a MS before buying PSP. Besides, MS is almost a must-have accessory for PSP (especially for those who use it as a PMP), while you can only use R4 on NDS.
It's hard to directly compare the piracy situation between PSP and NDS, as there are just too many differences and incomparable factors between them, but in short, I still think people have higher tendency to pirate on PSP than on NDS.