Tbh, I think its horrific. My only hope is alot more Valentia edition were sold (as it is not on the tracker), but that's me be being delusionally optimistic.
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Tbh, I think its horrific. My only hope is alot more Valentia edition were sold (as it is not on the tracker), but that's me be being delusionally optimistic.
Dark Cloud
Member
Hyrule Warriors did a million. I don't see why Fire Emblem Warriors couldn't do the same.
DecoReturns
Member
What were your expectations?
I was expecting something like what we got. Its a remake that's not being treated like a mainline entry, not much hype around it and just a quick project the team cooked up.
Honestly think this will at least hit a million worldwide.
Dark Cloud
Member
I understand that. Maybe it won't do a million, but half a million should be good. Is Fire Emblem bigger in Japan? Maybe FEW will sell less in the west compared to HW, but sell a little more in Japan because it's on a handheld.Ōkami;234837958 said:
It's on two handhelds.
Dark Cloud
Member
Dammit I forgot about the New 3DS version 😂
Well there goes that. Maybe they can pull half a million still.
Well, there's always digital sales, DLC and golden week to help it do better than the previous remarks.
Honestly I don't think people want older style Fire Emblem.
Even beyond the whole waifu/husbando thing, the newest games mixed things up a lot and try to be flashy to make them more appealing to modern audiences. I would expect the next mainline game to continue that trend.
This was a remake of a legacy title, and it received legacy sales. Even with modern amenities, people are going to associate this with the titles they found uninteresting prior to Awakening, and land us where we are.
I talked about the importance of making a product seem exciting when explaining why I felt Bravely Second would go way down and Fire Emblem Fates would maintain sales or go up, and Echoes is a product that falls squarely in the unexciting bucket.
If you want some similar Western titles, this would be like Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel, Batman: Arkham Origins, Gears of War: Jusdgment, or God of War: Ascension, where the product felt like it was made to fit a business goal of the developer (usually filling in the line-up until the actual sequel is ready) instead of capitalize on what the audience was looking for.
Even beyond the whole waifu/husbando thing, the newest games mixed things up a lot and try to be flashy to make them more appealing to modern audiences. I would expect the next mainline game to continue that trend.
This was a remake of a legacy title, and it received legacy sales. Even with modern amenities, people are going to associate this with the titles they found uninteresting prior to Awakening, and land us where we are.
I talked about the importance of making a product seem exciting when explaining why I felt Bravely Second would go way down and Fire Emblem Fates would maintain sales or go up, and Echoes is a product that falls squarely in the unexciting bucket.
If you want some similar Western titles, this would be like Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel, Batman: Arkham Origins, Gears of War: Jusdgment, or God of War: Ascension, where the product felt like it was made to fit a business goal of the developer (usually filling in the line-up until the actual sequel is ready) instead of capitalize on what the audience was looking for.
AdventureRacing
Member
I think this sounds about right. It's a shame because I just can't get into the newer games. I guess the old ones aren't going anywhere so I can always replay them.
I wonder when we'll get more details about the switch version of fire emblem, seems quite a distance away right now.
Why Atlus?
https://www.technopro-careers.com/archives/921
okay apprantly there was job listing for creating music application for new handheld game device?
Is Vita 2 really happening?
okay apprantly there was job listing for creating music application for new handheld game device?
Is Vita 2 really happening?
This might be kinda like BS where it could do significantly better in the west because Fire Emblem is hotter over here at the moment and its a remake of a game we never got.
I don't really see how these would be in any capacity necessarily causally related.
AquaWateria
Member
Which sucks because the older artstyle is so much better and Echoes artsyle is much better than Fates.
I don't know but Fates artstyle seems so generic in comparison to previous games and Echoes.
That is very interesting. It's not necessarily a Vita successor, but it does explicitly state it's for a handheld game console that will be released in the future.
PocketStation 2.
i guess because no p5 right away.
but i mean, they're doing an smt, and their us branch has been really on top of it.
i can definitely attest to hearing about 'wait and see' approaches from some other places though. it's frustrating but us branches will push the japanese branches to get on board like they did with ps4.
Unknown?
Member
That's kinda a stupid thing to say. Atlus doesn't put games on systems based solely on popularity. Otherwise PS4 would have mainline SMT and pretty much no exclusive Nintendo games from them. Also it's pretty dumb to say about the other companies because it's still too early to gauge long term success whereas the 3DS has a sizable installment.
They had day one launch games on both GBA and Wii.
Trauma Center! That's right. No idea about the GBA though.
Don't understand Japanese, was it by Sony? I wonder if they'd be able to fit PS4 in a handheld form factor within the next few years. That would basically be dream handheld, especially since Switch doesn't seem to be getting much of the third party support I want.
NeonZ
Member
Thinking about it now, in a way I guess this might have been an experiment of sorts. In presentation, unlike Shadow Dragon and New Mystery, Shadows of Valentia probably is higher than any of the existing titles (battle animations redone and improved again, more detailed models, full voice acting for the main story). It also has casual mode, so the accessibility is there.
However, it lacks the avatar and shipping aspects of recent titles - there are supports, but they're very limited in number and romantic pairs are pre-defined. In a way, this basically weights how much presentation and accessibility count compared to those features. Although, this seems like a weird game to do a trial like that, considering how it's based on a game infamous for its map design and odd progression among the older fanbase, and they did nothing to fix that.
Super Dodgeball
I thought P5 was gonna be a playstation exclusive, and people said that Sony had made an exclusive contract with Atlus or something
shadow2810
Member
In an alternative universe, Sony handhelds would have the same third party supports like their home consoles.
"Independent embedded software development company with many achievements in home electronics and game machine development", so it could be Sony, it could even be Nintendo working on a future Switch SKU.
Even so, i don't see how a new Vita would do well for Sony, when they've continuously been outplayed by Nintendo in the handheld/portable sector.
Mr. Pointy
Member
Just use Google Translate. The job description covers a lot of devices, including music application equipment for next gen portable game machines.
It mentions embedded software development for BD players, cameras and car audio.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
I dont think there's any sony deal with P5.
Dark Cloud
Member
So to be clear is there a mainline Persona exclusive with Sony or not?
Nintendo handhelds have been significantly more popular than PS home consoles in Japan for close to a decade.
same question, those persona exclusiveness made me confused
It could also just be a random company making a music app.
I am convinced, the Switch has done a weird things to people.
What other companies in Japan have "many achievements in home electronics and game machine development" besides Sony and Nintendo? You could be right though, who knows, this isn't really newsworthy.
Sega, Bandai
and SNK
Mr. Pointy
Member
I can only speculate, but I guess Atlus think the main fanbase for Persona is on PlayStation systems. Spinoffs aside.
Like the Tales series, I guess.
Like the Tales series, I guess.
titiklabingapat
Member
FWIW, Nintendo is flooding the USA with Switches this week in preparation for MK8 launch.
Sammy Samusu
Member
So are Capcom and Level 5 with their respective franchises, but their support is coming later than expected. Atlus is pretty late too.
If they had games ready for launch or launch window they'd be collecting some good coins now.
Don't at me with Disgaea and Setsuna sales lol. Those two are pretty irrelevant. On Switch or anywhere else.
Mr. Pointy
Member
It's possible. The application reads like a job within the company to me. I figure if Nintendo were looking for someone to make a Switch music player they'd get someone internally, hire in Kyoto or get someone at NERD to make it - like Pharrell Williams.
I mean, this could all be a wild goose chase. Hell, maybe Panasonic are working on a new portable 3DO.
I wonder if (Hidari drawn) Genealogy of the Holy Wars remake will perform close to post Awakening FE. That game after all, have the popular elements that was taken and reintroduced in Awakening namely pair, marriage, and children. Unlike Gaiden who was poorly remembered by old fans, Genealogy seems to be among the most favorite classic title.
I think you're thinking a bit small scale actually. This might be easier to explain through the lens of Western games.
So, the four Western titles I listed (Gears of War: Judgement, God of War: Ascension, Batman: Arkham Origins, and Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel) actually all did a good job of maintaining the feature sets and production values of their previous entries, and all of them added new features too.
We can even look at a game like Arkham Origins on paper and see that it sounds pretty impressive. There's a whole new cast of villains. The map is twice as large Arkham City. It follows Batman's Year One storyline with what was largely considered notably better writing. It had a new multiplayer mode. The combat upgrades were well received. It seems to fit all the checkmarks. Despite all this, it didn't have any features that really captured people's imaginations, and after already playing two lengthy games of this formula, people didn't want what still felt like too similar an offering.
Arkham Knight's massive scale increase, shiny new graphics, and batmobile seemed like a far more compelling proposition to people, even if it was a shorter list of new features. (I also like the batmobile example here as it shows that features don't necessarily have to pan out to be good to seem conceptually exciting.) Warner Bros understands this, and the next Batman game makes major change-ups to the formula if rumors are to be believed.
We can also look at God of War: Ascension, which had no excitement, versus God of War 4, which actually has excitement. God of War: Ascension basically offered "Yep it's another God of War game." with a multiplayer mode that seemed like something you would try for a couple hours and never play again. God of War 4 tries to reinvent the entire series to modern day tastes with a new setting, art style, new narrative angle, and what appears to be a very heavily changed up gameplay experience and game structure.
Assassin's Creed is also a great example of lots of different potential outcomes based on what type of game you make.
The first game was conceptually ambitious, but really rough. However, people were very excited for conceptual ambition in the early part of the generous, and bought a zillion copies of the game despite its flaws.
The second game was a major budget increase over the first, and tried to really achieve everything all the first game's potential and respond to the critical feedback about it. It sold a zillion copies.
Assassin's Creed 2 was so good that people were willing to buy a game that was a marginal enhancement of it with a few new features. Brotherhood kept something like 70%+ of AC2's audience.
However, people were not especially willing to do that twice, and Revelations collapsed in comparison, especially in terms of average selling price.
Assassin's Creed 3 heavily changed up the formula and offered lots of ambition, even if people debate if they liked it more than Assassin's Creed 2. Regardless, it was very exciting to audiences. I believe this is still the best selling Assassin's Creed game to date.
Assassin's Creed 4 is mostly predicated on Assassin's Creed 3's formula, but it offered enough exciting new things (new setting, all the water and pirate stuff) that it kept like 85-90%+ of the previous game's audience and was very well received.
Where Ubisoft really messed up was in Assassin's Creed: Unity. The game's offering was basically "We have improved graphics, but we took out a bunch of features, and our main new feature (co-op) is only usable on side missions." This was basically a straight regression of the franchise, and the new feature was implemented in a way that was not compelling for most co-op centric gamers, so the sales went way down.
Assassin's Creed: Syndicate, while doing a good job of making sure the core game felt more fun, was basically an unambitious game built on top of Assassin's Creed: Unity's base. They even thought it was a good idea to cut Unity's main new selling point instead of improving it. People didn't like Unity, so no one wanted a game that was a small iteration on top of that. This was, IIRC, even a worse seller than Revelations, or at least close to it.
These days, Ubisoft is back to rebooting the entire series again a la God of War, because that's what is needed to get people interested.
(You will notice a trend here that people are pretty much willing to put up with one straightforward-ish iteration on a successful formula, assuming it does a good job of reaching the formula's true potential, but want another significant leap/change-up by the third game.)
So, wheeling this back to Fire Emblem, they essentially put out something that fit with the unexciting sequels of the Western gaming world, and received a sales drop in kind. It's easy to forget these kinds of impacts in Media Create threads because most of the games we discuss are very niche products selling to 100-150K people, and at an audience that small, it's easier to keep 70%+ of them even with a game that doesn't change much. However, once we get to these better selling games that hit a more broad audience, these factors really start to come into play.
Or, put way more simply, I don't think the issue was the lack of supports/romances (though removing or lessening popular features definitely hurts and they should definitely have strong supports/romances in the next game), but rather the lack of new and exciting features and ambitions. Given Fates was already the "improve everything" version of the Awakening formula, people were very ready for something new, so this was a double whammy, and led to the sales drop we see.
ZSaberLink
Media Create Maven
Honestly though Atlus is a part of Sega now, and Sega launched with Puyo Puyo Tetris S and has two Sonic games (mania and Forces) releasing later this year. Maybe they are just spreading things out. Keep in mind that Atlus has only ever made 2 HD games thus far (#FE & Persona 5) and they're incredibly slow with those thus far.
PS3 games are HD though, and they made several.
That's only their RPG output. Even if you don't count the Arc Sys Persona spin-offs there's still Catherine. They are slow but they're not that big and did go through that buyout during this time. I guess pushing out 3DS ports is still easier than moving to just HD output.
Persona 5 and Catherine count as "several"? Every other PS3 game with their name attached to it has been outsourced.