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[electroplankton]

You do realize that Layton sold that much on Hardware which had a userbase 20-30x times as big as the 3ds has right now .... Some expectations are just unrealistic. Guess some people expect the next MH Game on Vita to sell 4-5 million just like Portable 3rd.

I know. In fact I think it would have been better to launch the game at the end of 2011, in order to take advantage of a bigger installed base. The result is also a consequence of the not spectacular 3DS performance during the first months.
And for this reason, I think Inazuma Eleven GO should be launched next year, since I can't see many young people to have the console now, or to buy it during the holiday season just for the game; a series which has the last two episodes million sellers falling into the 400k range is not good.

 

[cw_sasuke]

They need to establish that userbase with these kinda games - playing the waiting game killed 3rd party sales on platform like Wii. IE Go will also be able to sell 300-500k which isn't bad at all on such a young hardware. This isn't how it works - those are big ips nut they aren't Dragon Quest where they can just wait couple of years till the userbase is ready.

They will benefit in the following years from those early releases with their successor titles.

 

[Jokeropia]

Level-5 now has a US branch, they'll likely publish all Layton entries starting with the 3DS one.

Europe is by far the biggest market for Layton.

 

[electroplankton]

They need to establish that userbase with these kinda games - playing the waiting game killed 3rd party sales on platform like Wii. IE Go will also be able to sell 300-500k which isn't bad at all on such a young hardware. This isn't how it works - those are big ips nut they aren't Dragon Quest where they can just wait couple of years till the userbase is ready.

They will benefit in the following years from those early releases with their successor titles.

Maybe for Inazuma Eleven GO will work since it will have an almost completely new story, but I'm doubtful for Layton since all episodes are connected in someway.

 

[Hyuga]

Nintendo publishes the series overseas and even if Level 5 publish by itself in Japan, it's very unlikely it'll renounce to such a great partner; Level 5 is on the top also thanks to Nintendo in my opinion.

You mean after SCEI pumped millions of $$$ into Level-5 for several games (in times where Level-5 was an absolutely nobody)?
Come on, man.
They have a better relationship to Sony than to Nintendo imo.

(btw. they are still working on games for Sony)

 

[electroplankton]

You mean after SCEI pumped millions of $$$ into Level-5 for several games (in times where Level-5 was an absolutely nobody)?
Come on, man.
They have a better relationship to Sony than to Nintendo imo.

Actually, Sony didn't want to publish White Knight Chronicles in the States leaving it to D3...
Nintendo made Layton one of the most recognizable character of the current generation in the West, it advertised the series as hell allowing it to sell million of copies (the first one may be around 5 million worldwide); it has also published Inazuma Eleven in some countries and here in Italy it is one of the best selling game of the last months. I don't know exactly, but I think that NOW Level 5 is very very happy to cooperate with Nintendo, and the effort put on 3DS is a straightforward proof.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Actually, Sony didn't want to publish White Knight Chronicles in the States leaving it to D3...
Nintendo made Layton one of the most recognizable character of the current generation in the West, it advertised the series as hell allowing it to sell million of copies (the first one may be around 5 million worldwide); it has also published Inazuma Eleven in some countries and here in Italy it is one of the best selling game of the last months. I don't know exactly, but I think that NOW Level 5 is very very happy to cooperate with Nintendo, and the effort put on 3DS is a straightforward proof.

Yes, because Level-5 made absolutely no games before WKC and Layton...

 

[cw_sasuke]

Yes, because Level-5 made absolutely no games before WKC and Layton...

Besides of Little Brawler pretty much all their selfpublished titles are on Nintendo Plattform and they are betting strong on 3DS with most of their upcoming releases.

 

[Orgen]

Yes, because Level-5 made absolutely no games before WKC and Layton...

And Square was on full with Nintendo in the 16bit era... and now?

I see Level-5 NOW more with Nintendo than Sony. They've tried to establish new IP on several systems and I doubt we'll see a Layton/Inazuma game on PSP or a WKC/Little Battler Xperience on 3DS trying to mix the fanbase (everything could happen, but I doubt it).

And yes, Ni No Kuni (DS/PS3) is more an exception than a rule.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

I'm no expert on this, but according to Wikipedia;

It seems that they just oversee overseas development rather than actually devlop. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think SPD3's involvement varies by title. They were pretty hands on for Metroid Prime, but less so for the sequels for example. They do contribute all audio/music for their games though, so I think it's fair to consider their titles co-developed.

As a matter of fact, Layton on 3DS has lost AT LEAST 300k from the previous entry, which is BAD in my opinion also taking in account it was a launch software and so on. Let's see if the next chapter will do more (surely) and how in the case.
I also see Inazuma Eleven GO sent out to die.

Layton 5 isn't done selling yet, and is getting a renewed campaign in Japan too. It's a game that really sells to Japan's casual and female audiences, which haven't exactly embraced 3DS quite yet. As those groups buy 3DS systems though, sales of games like Nintendogs and Layton will continue to grow alongside them. I think sales wise Layton 5 will ultimately come closer to Layton 4 than Layton 4 did to Layton 3.

Inazuma sells to kids chiefly though, so the holiday launch makes sense and it's coming in around some other decent to big sellers in that period too (Mario Kart, Super Mario, MGS3, Slime Morimori 3, Mario & Sonic 3, etc). These are titles that will help push each other and the system. I don't think it'll be a million seller off the bat, but it's won't be sent out to die either.

You have to remember that Level-5 was originally a Sony partner, and switched teams as soon as they saw a market to do so.

Sure, but Level 5's work with Nintendo has been orders of magnitude more successful than their work with Sony. The overseas releases of just Layton 1 alone have likely outsold the combined total of all their SCE games worldwide. I think Hino understands who really butters his bread (ie: Horii & Iwata)...

 

[Sammy Samusu]

I think Level 5 is closer to Nintendo.

Hino said he wants his brand to be associated with Nintendo 3DS, and they have around five games in development.

And Nintendo didn't ask for any. White Knight Chronicles is a Sony IP, they approached Level 5, not the other way around (I think).

I'm pretty sure that Matsuno deal will end up on Nintendo 3DS as well, given the project concept.

*waiting for Life Fantasy*

 

[AranhaHunter]

I never thought I would say this but I guess there would be meltdowns if a Professor Layton or Inazuma Eleven is announced for Vita or PS3 lol

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Besides of Little Brawler pretty much all their selfpublished titles are on Nintendo Plattform and they are betting strong on 3DS with most of their upcoming releases.

For Level 5 self-published games by platform family;


Nintendo
Professor Layton and the Curious Village (DS) 2007
Professor Layton and the Diabolical Box (DS) 2007
Inazuma Eleven (DS) 2008
Professor Layton and the Unwound Future (DS) 2008
Sloan and McHale's Mysterious Story (DS) 2009
Tago Akira no Atama no Taisou Dai-1-Shuu: Nazotoki Sekai Isshuu Ryokou (DS) 2009
Tago Akira no Atama no Taisou Dai-2-Shuu: Ginga Oudan Nazotoki Adventure (DS) 2009
Sloan and McHale's Mysterious Story 2 (DS) 2009
Inazuma Eleven 2: Threat of the Invaders: Fire / Blizzard (DS) 2009
Tago Akira no Atama no Taisou Dai-3-Shuu: Fushigi no Kuni no Nazotoki Otogibanashi (DS) 2009
Tago Akira no Atama no Taisou Dai-4-Shuu: Time Machine no Nazotoki Daibouken (DS) 2009
Professor Layton and the Last Specter (DS) 2009
Inazuma Eleven 3: Challenge the World: Spark / Bomber (DS) 2010
Ninokuni: Shikkoku no Madoushi (DS) 2010
Inazuma Eleven 3: Challenge the World: The Ogre (DS) 2010
Professor Layton and the Mask of Miracles (3DS) 2011
Inazuma Eleven Strikers (Wii) 2011
Fantasy Life (3DS) 2011
Girls RPG: Cinderellife (3DS) 2011
Inazuma Eleven Go! (3DS) 2011
Mystery Room (DS) 2011
Professor Layton Vs Ace Attorney (3DS) tba
Time Travelers (3DS) tba


PlayStation
Little Battler eXperience (PSP) 2011
Ninokuni: Shiroki Seihai no Joou (PS3) 2011


Xbox
lol

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

I never thought I would say this but I guess there would be meltdowns if a Professor Layton or Inazuma Eleven is announced for Vita or PS3 lol

There would, but probably in large part because those games are so associated with Nintendo, Nintendo platforms and Nintendo audiences at this point.

There'd be a lot less controversy if Level 5 announced LBX for 3DS, or Ninokuni for Wii U for those same reasons.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I think Level 5 is closer to Nintendo.

Hino said he wants his brand to be associated with Nintendo 3DS, and they have around five games in development.

And Nintendo didn't ask for any. White Knight Chronicles is a Sony IP, they approached Level 5, not the other way around (I think).

I'm pretty sure that Matsuno deal will end up on Nintendo 3DS as well, given the project concept.

*waiting for Life Fantasy*

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the 3DS development has been halted to wait and see if Nintendo can turn it around and how well Vita is received. With Vita having a touch screen I don't think there will be an issue porting games from one to the other.

I agree that Level-5 have had more success on DS than on any Sony platform, but it is my position that they wouldn't have been in that position were it not for Sony's persistence in funding IPs and games with Level-5.

 

[Takao]

I'm probably going to be lynched for saying this, but Inazuma 11 would be a more successful IP outside of Japan if it was on a Sony platform. If Level-5 and Sony collaborated enough, they could have simultaneously launched the anime, and game in multiple countries. Nintendo, not having a media production arm at all couldn't offer that. Which is why Inazuma 11 wasn't released in a major market like the UK, since the anime isn't on the air there, and based on the past, Sony wouldn't be against paying broadcasters to get the show on the air.

It's the approach I expected them to take with The Little Battlers, but that game came out way too late, and the platform it's on is dead in the west.

As for Level-5 and Sony, the company was only started on behalf of Sony. So I imagine the heads at SCEJ feel a bit weird talking to that studio given their near nonexistent support for their platforms.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

I think Level 5 is closer to Nintendo.

Hino said he wants his brand to be associated with Nintendo 3DS, and they have around five games in development.

And Nintendo didn't ask for any. White Knight Chronicles is a Sony IP, they approached Level 5, not the other way around (I think).

I'm pretty sure that Matsuno deal will end up on Nintendo 3DS as well, given the project concept.

*waiting for Life Fantasy*

Another thing to consider is that Nintendo actually develops games for Level 5 too (Layton 4" London Life, Fantasy Life). That's something Sony's never done afaik.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the 3DS development has been halted to wait and see if Nintendo can turn it around and how well Vita is received. With Vita having a touch screen I don't think there will be an issue porting games from one to the other.

I agree that Level-5 have had more success on DS than on any Sony platform, but it is my position that they wouldn't have been in that position were it not for Sony's persistence in funding IPs and games with Level-5.

Sony got L5 off the ground, but Square Enix and Nintendo were far more instrumental in helping get the company where it is today.

Really though, I think trying to attribute credit for Level 5's meteoric success story to any company but Level 5 themselves is sort of missing the point. Though the early Sony contracts or that huge pile of DQ/Layton money certainly didn't hurt.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

I'm probably going to be lynched for saying this, but Inazuma 11 would be a more successful IP outside of Japan if it was on a Sony platform. If Level-5 and Sony collaborated enough, they could have simultaneously launched the anime, and game in multiple countries. Nintendo, not having a media production arm at all couldn't offer that. Which is why Inazuma 11 wasn't released in a major market like the UK, since the anime isn't on the air there, and based on the past, Sony wouldn't be against paying broadcasters to get the show on the air.

It's the approach I expected them to take with The Little Battlers, but that game came out way too late, and the platform it's on is dead in the west.

Nintendo's done this before with their own brands (Pokemon, Kirby) to far more success than Sony ever has with anything comparable, I don't see why they couldn't with IE if that's what Level 5 would've wanted. The audience for this sort of game also overwhelmingly favored DS over PSP in the west, especially from 2008 on. While I'd agree IE was something of a missed opportunity, that missed opportunity wasn't in any real due to going with a Nintendo platform over a PlayStation one. And considering how Sony's handled L5 in the west before, I think you're extending them far more credit than what the reality of what you're talking about would've been.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I'm probably going to be lynched for saying this, but Inazuma 11 would be a more successful IP outside of Japan if it was on a Sony platform. If Level-5 and Sony collaborated enough, they could have simultaneously launched the anime, and game in multiple countries. Nintendo, not having a media production arm at all couldn't offer that. Which is why Inazuma 11 wasn't released in a major market like the UK, since the anime isn't on the air there, and based on the past, Sony wouldn't be against paying broadcasters to get the show on the air.

It's the approach I expected them to take with The Little Battlers, but that game came out way too late, and the platform it's on is dead in the west.

Yup, Inazuma would be much more popular on PlayStation than on Nintendo, in Europe at least. For whatever reason sports games are much more closely associated with PS than any other brand here, and while Inazuma isn't actually a sports franchise, it will be seen as such given the subject matter.

The problem is that there is no platform for Level-5 to release the games on until Vita is released, the PSP is on life-support in Europe and deader than dead in the US. DS was the only real choice for Level-5 then, which is why I believe every self published game in the works for 3DS will also be released on Vita.

 

[Takao]

Nintendo's done this before with their own brands (Pokemon, Kirby) to far more success than Sony ever has with anything comparable, I don't see why they couldn't with IE if that's what Level 5 would've wanted. The audience for this sort of game also overwhelmingly favored DS over PSP in the west, especially from 2008 on. While I'd agree IE was something of a missed opportunity, that missed opportunity wasn't in any real due to going with a Nintendo platform over a PlayStation one. And considering how Sony's handled L5 in the west before, I think you're extending them far more credit than what the reality of what you're talking about would've been.

Nintendo never launched the Kirby, and Pokemon anime in the west, that was all third party companies (well, one - 4Kids Entertainment). Nintendo only swooped in on Pokemon when the TV show was already well established. The Kirby anime did not do well. With Sony, Level-5 would cut out any middle man.

I just see it as this for Inazuma. Soccer games mostly sell in Europe, which is Sony's best territory. Soccer games sell better on PlayStation platforms than Nintendo, thus the audience is on PlayStation platforms. Does that mean they would buy a soccer RPG? No, but I think they would be more likely to given a media blitz. A Sony media blitz which has seen Invizimals become one of the most successful handheld IPs in recent years, despite being released in 2009.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Yup, Inazuma would be much more popular on PlayStation than on Nintendo, in Europe at least. For whatever reason sports games are much more closely associated with PS than any other brand here, and while Inazuma isn't actually a sports franchise, it will be seen as such given the subject matter.

This logic is reaching and insane. IE has more in common with Pokemon than PES, both in the game itself and the sort of audience it appeals to.

Like all Level 5's recent Sony published games, it probably would've bombed hard in the west. Especially if released in 2011.

 

[rpmurphy]

The target audience of IE is fairly young, so Sony would have to do a better job than Nintendo to market their handheld for that demographic. The PSP is in a great position now, but that wasn't so much the case a few years ago when the first game was released.

 

[Nirolak]

I think Level 5 is closer to Nintendo.

Hino said he wants his brand to be associated with Nintendo 3DS, and they have around five games in development.

And Nintendo didn't ask for any. White Knight Chronicles is a Sony IP, they approached Level 5, not the other way around (I think).

I'm pretty sure that Matsuno deal will end up on Nintendo 3DS as well, given the project concept.

*waiting for Life Fantasy*

What Level 5 has traditionally done is put their kid friendly and "everyone" titles on Nintendo's systems while their teenager focused titles went on Sony's platforms, following the demographics of the systems in Japan.

However, they have recently broken with this trend by putting Time Travelers on the 3DS, The Little Battlers on PSP, and Ninokuni on PS3.

Either they feel the demographics of the systems have become more nebulous, or they're acting a bit spontaneously.

 

[Takao]

What Level 5 has traditionally done is put their kid friendly and "everyone" titles on Nintendo's systems while their teenager focused titles went on Sony's platforms, following the demographics of the systems in Japan.

However, they have recently broken with this trend by putting Time Travelers on the 3DS, The Little Battlers on PSP, and Ninokuni on PS3.

Either they feel the demographics of the systems have become more nebulous, or they're acting a bit spontaneously.

Well, Time Travelers is most likely Ushiro, which was a PSP game. They probably didn't want to scrap their game, or have to upres it for Sony's initiatives, and just decided to go to the nearest platform with similar power to the PSP.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Nintendo never launched the Kirby, and Pokemon anime in the west, that was all third party companies (well, one - 4Kids Entertainment). Nintendo only swooped in on Pokemon when the TV show was already well established. The Kirby anime did not do well. With Sony, Level-5 would cut out any middle man.

I just see it as this for Inazuma. Soccer games mostly sell in Europe, which is Sony's best territory. Soccer games sell better on PlayStation platforms than Nintendo, thus the audience is on PlayStation platforms. Does that mean they would buy a soccer RPG? No, but I think they would be more likely to given a media blitz. A Sony media blitz which has seen Invizimals become one of the most successful IPs on PSP, despite being released in 2009.

Pokemon was a carefully orchestrated multi-tiered marketing approach. The game and anime were launched in tandem, Nintendo made the partnership with 4-Kids specifically for that. If you think the anime got picked up and Nintendo just piggybacked that after the fact you're dead wrong. Both ends helped drive each other, plus the card game too.

Invisimals being a decent success story in it's country of origin doesn't really give me much confidence in Sony pulling off a region wide mega media blitz and huge sales for IE. They're never really done it before, well not since FFVII really, and their handling of Level 5's previous games has been atrocious, especially compared to what Nintendo did for Layton. I mean there's no contest, Nintendo's history in this area of targeted franchise approaches is stuff like Pokemon, Brain-Age, Layton, even recent 3rd party efforts like DQIX and MH3. Sony's is... Invisimals?

PES selling better on PlayStations doesn't mean IE would either. If you want to compare IE to a sports brand, even something like Mario Strikers is more similar. The key here audience wise is kids, and that's clearly Nintendo territory.

 

[Nirolak]

Well, Time Travelers is most likely Ushiro, which was a PSP game. They probably didn't want to scrap their game, or have to upres it for Sony's initiatives, and just decided to go to the nearest platform with similar power to the PSP.

While I agree that it definitely seems related to Ushiro, the art assets seem quite different than the original trailer, which makes me think they remade them (or at least touched them up notably).

Perhaps they felt early 3DS buyers would much more likely be a PSP like audience, which isn't a bad guess.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

What Level 5 has traditionally done is put their kid friendly and "everyone" titles on Nintendo's systems while their teenager focused titles went on Sony's platforms, following the demographics of the systems in Japan.

However, they have recently broken with this trend by putting Time Travelers on the 3DS, The Little Battlers on PSP, and Ninokuni on PS3.

Either they feel the demographics of the systems have become more nebulous, or they're acting a bit spontaneously.

It's probably a bit of both. Though in the case of LBX and Ninokuni PS3, those games were both greenlit 3+ years ago, so they were probably more projecting future markets than responding to the actual market trends (like they were with Layton/Inazuma). It's actually the same with Time Travelers on 3DS, Nintendo's made it clear they're pushing for the PlayStation demographic with it too versus just what they had with DS/Wii.

 

[Alrus]

I'm still baffled Level 5 prioritized opening an American branch over a European one. Layton is much more popular in Europe than in America.

Also Nintendo will make sure key franchises like Layton and Inazuma stays on their platforms. Hino probably knows that, and that's why I don't see him shitting on Nintendo unless those games suddenly stop selling well.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I'm still baffled Level 5 prioritized opening an American branch over a European one. Layton is much more popular in Europe than in America.

Also Nintendo will make sure key franchises like Layton and Inazuma stays on their platforms. Hino probably knows that, and that's why I don't see him shitting on Nintendo unless those games suddenly stop selling well.

You're assuming the purpose of the American branch was to work on Japanese L5 properties, rather than to work with US developers on new properties.

 

[Nirolak]

I'm still baffled Level 5 prioritized opening an American branch over a European one. Layton is much more popular in Europe than in America.

Also Nintendo will make sure key franchises like Layton and Inazuma stays on their platforms. Hino probably knows that, and that's why I don't see him shitting on Nintendo unless those games suddenly stop selling well.

Actually, that kind of logic makes some sense.

If you're already having success in a region, you probably need to open an office there less urgently than the region you also want, but aren't having as much success in.

You're assuming the purpose of the American branch was to work on Japanese L5 properties, rather than to work with US developers on new properties.

This is a good point. Level 5 mentioned the office was explicitly opened to make new games that appeal more to the North American audience.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I think Level 5 will continue to support Nintendo as well as Sony I don't really see them jumping ship for one over the other

Level 5's 3DS games in development look really interesting to me but when they hit a wall on visuals on the 3DS I can see many Vita exclusives coming after launch for that platform

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

I think Level 5 will continue to support Nintendo as well as Sony I don't really see them jumping ship for one over the other

Level 5's 3DS games in development look really interesting to me but when they hit a wall on visuals on the 3DS I can see many Vita exclusives coming after launch for that platform

You mean like how they hit a wall on DS and started pumping out PSP games?

Level 5's not dumb, they'll follow the market trends. If Vita blows up, they'll be right there with it publishing a ton of games. If 3DS fails to ever take hold, they'll drop it like an N64. But in the end their market will be what drives their development priority.

 

[Takao]

Pokemon was a carefully orchestrated multi-tiered marketing approach. The game and anime were launched in tandem, Nintendo made the partnership with 4-Kids specifically for that. If you think the anime got picked up and Nintendo just piggybacked that after the fact you're dead wrong. Both ends helped drive each other, plus the card game too.

Invisimals being a decent success story in it's country of origin doesn't really give me much confidence in Sony pulling off a region wide mega media blitz and huge sales for IE. They're never really done it before, well not since FFVII really, and their handling of Level 5's previous games has been atrocious, especially compared to what Nintendo did for Layton. I mean there's no contest, Nintendo's history in this area of targeted franchise approaches is stuff like Pokemon, Brain-Age, Layton, even recent 3rd party efforts like DQIX and MH3. Sony's is... Invisimals?

PES selling better on PlayStations doesn't mean IE would either. If you want to compare IE to a sports brand, even something like Mario Strikers is more similar. The key here audience wise is kids, and that's clearly Nintendo territory.

Kids do play PES, and FIFA. I know I played NHL games when I was a kid...

While I may be overestimating Sony's abilities, I do think you're overly harsh on their treatment of Level-5's games. Dark Cloud was a new IP, from a studio who had never made a game. The concept itself wasn't overly original, nor was the art design. If I hadn't seen commercials on TV, and bus stop ads (which thinking back at it points to another era when Sony would advertise a JRPG) I wouldn't have cared about the game. Though, I think a lot of that game's appeal was being an early PS2 RPG. Which is something its sequel did not have as a selling point, and was probably hurt with the title not really referencing the previous game at all, and having a title that could've been viewed as a new IP in 2 out of 3 territories. We don't really know how well, or poorly that game sold. Rogue Galaxy came out way too late into the PS2's life cycle in the west for a chance at success. Jeanne D'Arc, despite my love for the game was in a genre not known for its popularity, though admittedly Sony could've thrown the game a bone as that was during the PSP's notorious dry spells. WKC took way too long to come out, as all hype died in the west, and turned out to be standard JRPG with nothing special. Sony didn't bother to market it, sent it to die in the west, and I can see why.

Compare those games to their Nintendo output, which has been a puzzle game in a way we've never seen before (Layton), and an RPG in a setting we've never seen before (Inazuma 11). Both of which came out at the right moment in their platform's life, and were original enough to stick out.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Kids do play PES, and FIFA. I know I played NHL games when I was a kid...

While I may be overestimating Sony's abilities, I do think you're overly harsh on their treatment of Level-5's games. Dark Cloud was a new IP, from a studio who had never made a game. The concept itself wasn't overly original, nor was the art design. If I hadn't seen commercials on TV, and bus stop ads (which thinking back at it points to another era when Sony would advertise a JRPG) I wouldn't have cared about the game. Though, I think a lot of that game's appeal was being an early PS2 RPG. Which is something its sequel did not have as a selling point, and was probably hurt with the title not really referencing the previous game at all, and having a title that could've been viewed as a new IP in 2 out of 3 territories. We don't really know how well, or poorly that game sold. Rogue Galaxy came out way too late into the PS2's life cycle in the west for a chance at success. Jeanne D'Arc, despite my love for the game was in a genre not known for its popularity, though admittedly Sony could've thrown the game a bone as that was during the PSP's notorious dry spells. WKC took way too long to come out, as all hype died in the west, and turned out to be standard JRPG with nothing special. Sony didn't bother to market it, sent it to die in the west, and I can see why.

Compare those games to their Nintendo output, which has been a puzzle game in a way we've never seen before (Layton), and an RPG in a setting we've never seen before (Inazuma 11). Both of which came out at the right moment in their platform's life, and were original enough to stick out.

More kids play Pokemon than FIFA, PES or NHL. Which is sort of the point, Inazuma is pretty squarely more in Nintendo's audience despite it's subject matter. Would Wii Sports have also sold better on PS3/PSP?

And I might be a bit harsh on Sony, but what you're putting forward is something they've never really done before, and Nintendo has. With Level 5 even (Layton). Nintendo could've handled/timed IE a lot better too, the handling we got for the game doesn't in any way reflect the best of their ability. We don't know how much of that comes down to Nintendo or Level 5 either though (L5 was behind the western delays with Layton specifically), and to assume things would've been automatically better with Sony just seems pretty divorced from reality given the histories and audiences of all the companies involved.

 

[AranhaHunter]

There would, but probably in large part because those games are so associated with Nintendo, Nintendo platforms and Nintendo audiences at this point.

There'd be a lot less controversy if Level 5 announced LBX for 3DS, or Ninokuni for Wii U for those same reasons.

I never thought any of those franchises were big enough to warrant a meltdown.

Also, why would there be any controversy, as you put it? It's not like Nintendo or Sony have any ownership of the copyrights for those games.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

You mean like how they hit a wall on DS and started pumping out PSP games?

Level 5's not dumb, they'll follow the market trends. If Vita blows up, they'll be right there with it publishing a ton of games. If 3DS fails to ever take hold, they'll drop it like an N64. But in the end their market will be what drives their development priority.

I respect LEVEL 5 still I don't think the old days of Square betrayaltons can ever return there is always a market when you are multi-platform

I still believe if Vita had 3D as well it would have killed the 3DS but Sony allowed Nintendo a real life line here. Nintendo will not allow 3DS to fail, they will rush out a 3DS lite to fix some issues, price drops or both

Having 3D will be Level 5's excuse to continue to support 3DS with a few games even if Vita is killing it in sales

Sales-Age has been here before we all expected PSP to kill off NDS until that thing just skyrocketed beyond belief. Nintendo can do very well with a lower spec platform I don't see them allowing the 3DS to just die

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

I never thought any of those franchises were big enough to warrant a meltdown.

Also, why would there be any controversy, as you put it? It's not like Nintendo or Sony have any ownership of the copyrights for those games.

Layton's success in the west is largely attributed to Nintendo. It'd be like if Final Fantasy VIII/IX had gone to Dreamcast instead in the late 1990s.

Honestly, I don't think there'd be much controversy over Inazuma. But Layton would definitely be considered a betrayalaton after all Nintendo's done for it.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

I respect LEVEL 5 still I don't think the old days of Square betrayaltons can ever return there is always a market when you are multi-platform

I still believe if Vita had 3D as well it would have killed the 3DS but Sony allowed Nintendo a real life line here. Nintendo will not allow 3DS to fail, they will rush out a 3DS lite to fix some issues, price drops or both

Having 3D will be Level 5's excuse to continue to support 3DS with a few games even if Vita is killing it in sales

Sales-Age has been here before we all expected PSP to kill off NDS until that thing just skyrocketed beyond belief. Nintendo can do very well with a lower spec platform I don't see them allowing the 3DS to just die

Well, realistically I don't expect Vita to kill 3DS sales wise anyway. GAF also figured 3DS would crush everything six months ago, so no surprise some are repeating the same cycle for Vita. With mostly the same games too even.

 

[Chris1964]

Enterbrain Sales: Week 27, 2011 (Jun 27 - Jul 03)

01./00. [3DS] Tales of the Abyss | RPG | (Bandai Namco) {2011.06.30} | ¥6.090 | - 68.218 / NEW
02./00. [PS3] Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition | FTG | (Capcom) {2011.06.30} | ¥3.990 | - 45.347 / NEW
03./00. [PSP] To Heart 2: Dungeon Travelers # | RPG | (Aqua Plus) {2011.06.30} | ¥5.040 | - 43.979 / NEW
04./00. [WII] GoldenEye 007 | ACT | (Nintendo) {2011.06.30} | ¥5.800 | - 37.457 / NEW
05./04. [3DS] The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D | ACT | (Nintendo) {2011.06.16} | ¥4.800 | - 26.019 / 249.279 (-35%)
06./05. [PSP] Little Battler Xperience | RPG | (Level 5) {2011.06.16} | ¥5.980 | - 21.734 / 224.064 (-44%)
07./00. [PSP] Mashiro Iro Symphony: Mutsu-no-hana # | ADV | (Comfort) {2011.06.30} | ¥6.090 | - 19.762 / NEW
08./01. [PS3] Atelier Meruru: The Alchemist of Arland 3 # | RPG | (Gust) {2011.06.23} | ¥7.140 | - 15.138 / 115.860 (-85%)
09./02. [PSP] Steins;Gate # | ADV | (Kadokawa Shoten) {2011.06.23} | ¥6.090 | - 14.046 / 99.964 (-84%)
10./03. [PSP] Gundam: Memories of the Battle | ACT | (Bandai Namco) {2011.06.23} | ¥6.279 | - 11.518 / 71.707 (-81%)
11./09. [WII] Wii Sports Resort | SPT | (Nintendo) {2009.06.25} | ¥4.800 | - 11.237 / 2.329.101 (+26%)
12./00. [PS3] Test Drive: Unlimited 2 | RCE | (CyberFront) {2011.06.30} | ¥7.140 | - 11.022 / NEW
13./08. [PS3] Yakuza: Of the End | ADV | (Sega) {2011.06.09} | ¥7.980 | - 9.790 / 385.983 (-52%)
14./00. [PSP] Moujuutsukai to Oujisama Portable # | ADV | (Idea Factory) {2011.06.30} | ¥5.040 | - 9.376 / NEW
15./00. [360] Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition | FTG | (Capcom) {2011.06.30} | ¥3.990 | - 9.229 / NEW
16./07. [PS3] Bleach: Soul Ignition | ACT | (SCE) {2011.06.23} | ¥5.980 | - 8.929 / 36.801 (-68%)
17./00. [PS3] Virtua Tennis 4 | SPT | (Sega) {2011.06.30} | ¥7.140 | - 7.318 / NEW
18./12. [NDS] Pokemon Black / White | RPG | (Pokemon Co.) {2010.09.18} | ¥4.800 | - 6.642 / 5.224.754 (+4%)
19./11. [NDS] Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker 2 - Professional | RPG | (Square Enix) {2011.03.31} | ¥4.440 | - 6.387 / 475.856 (-5%)
20./00. [NDS] Kaidan Restaurant: Zoku! Shin Menu 100-Sen | ADV | (Bandai Namco) {2011.06.30} | ¥4.242 | - 5.805 / NEW
21./06. [NDS] Prince of Tennis Gyutto! Doki-Doki Survival - Survival Umi to Yama no Love | ADV | (Konami) {2011.06.23} | ¥5.250 | - 5.580 / 43.861 (-85%)
22./00. [360] Test Drive: Unlimited 2 | RCE | (CyberFront) {2011.06.30} | ¥7.140 | - 5.415 / NEW
23./16. [WII] Mario Kart Wii | RCE | (Nintendo) {2008.04.10} | ¥5.800 | - 4.895 / 3.187.389 (+7%)
24./17. [3DS] One Piece: Unlimited Cruise SP | ADV | (Bandai Namco) {2011.05.26} | ¥6.090 | - 3.957 / 121.961 (-10%)
25./18. [WII] Wii Party | ETC | (Nintendo) {2010.07.08} | ¥4.800 | - 3.849 / 1.893.028 (-12%)
26./23. [3DS] Nintendogs + Cats: French Bulldog / Shiba / Toy Poodle & New Friends | ETC | (Nintendo) {2011.02.26} | ¥4.800 | - 3.563 / 247.611 (+3%)
27./22. [PSP] Monster Hunter Freedom 3 | ACT | (Capcom) {2010.12.01} | ¥5.800 | - 3.492 / 4.452.750 (-6%)
28./20. [PS3] Grand Theft Auto IV: The Complete Edition | ACT | (Take-Two Interactive) {2011.06.23} | ¥6.090 | - 3.378 / 7.411 (-16%)
29./27. [WII] Wii Fit Plus | HOB | (Nintendo) {2009.10.01} | ¥2.000 | - 3.374 / 2.263.215 (+10%)
30./15. [3DS] Resident Evil: The Mercenaries 3D | ACT | (Capcom) {2011.06.02} | ¥4.800 | - 3.332 / 92.733 (-28%)


Top 30

PS3 - 7
PSP - 7
3DS - 5
WII - 5
NDS - 4
360 - 2


SOFTWARE

---------------------------------------------
|System | This Week | Last Week | Last Year |
---------------------------------------------
|  PSP  |     27,7% |     36,1% |     10,1% |
|  PS3  |     22,1% |     28,1% |     10,9% |
|  3DS  |     18,7% |     10,4% |      0,0% |
|  WII  |     15,1% |      8,3% |      9,0% |
|  NDS  |     12,2% |     14,8% |     65,0% |
|  360  |      3,7% |      1,6% |      3,2% |
|  PS2  |      0,4% |      0,6% |      1,8% |
|  OTH  |      0,1% |      0,1% |      0,1% |
---------------------------------------------

HARDWARE

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|System | This Week | Last Week | Last Year |        YTD |   Last YTD |         LTD |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  3DS  |    31.545 |    27.378 |         0 |  1.185.436 |          0 |   1.185.436 |
| PSP # |    26.587 |    25.080 |    28.650 |  1.104.311 |  1.272.452 |  17.381.242 |
|  PS3  |    19.290 |    14.967 |    25.049 |    640.338 |    852.955 |   6.590.225 |
|  WII  |    11.915 |     8.954 |    21.832 |    425.006 |    955.842 |  11.655.298 |
| NDS # |     6.890 |     6.677 |    53.141 |    621.817 |  1.443.317 |  32.746.115 |
|  360  |     1.874 |     1.853 |     7.915 |     70.598 |    111.396 |   1.477.261 |
|  PS2  |     1.051 |     1.183 |     1.639 |     36.054 |     54.855 |  21.931.965 |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  ALL  |    99.152 |    86.092 |   138.226 |  4.083.560 |  4.690.817 |  92.967.542 |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  DSi  |     6.624 |     6.476 |    48.312 |    596.466 |  1.324.582 |   8.157.339 |
|  DSL  |       266 |       201 |     4.829 |     25.351 |    118.735 |  18.139.570 |
| PSPGo |       128 |       227 |       641 |     19.485 |     40.704 |     159.937 |
|  PSP  |    26.459 |    24.853 |    28.009 |  1.084.826 |  1.231.748 |  17.221.305 |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Road]

Famitsu 2011 half-year top 20 (2010-12-27~2011-06-26)

01. [PSP] Monster Hunter Freedom 3 (Capcom) {2010-12-01} - 968.269 / 4.449.258
02. [NDS] Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker 2 Professional (Square Enix) {2011-03-31} - 469.469 / 469.469
03. [PSP] Dissidia 012 (Duodecim) Final Fantasy (Square Enix) {2011-03-03} - 454.522 / 454.522
04. [PS3] Dynasty Warriors 7 (Koei Tecmo) {2011-03-10} - 443.873 / 443.873
05. [PS3] Yakuza: Of the End (SEGA) {2011-06-09} - 376.193 / 376.193
06. [WII] Donkey Kong Country Returns (Nintendo) {2010-12-09} - 368.527 / 928.495
07. [PSP] Super Robot Wars Z 2nd: Hakai-Hen (Bandai Namco) {2011-04-14} - 364.881 / 364.881
08. [PSP] Phantasy Star Portable 2: Infinity (SEGA) {2011-02-24} - 352.511 / 352.511
09. [WII] Wii Party (Nintendo) {2010-07-08} - 349.951 / 1.889.179
10. [PSP] SD Gundam G Generation: World (Bandai Namco) {2011-02-24} - 332.278 / 332.278
11. [PS3] Samurai Warriors 3 Z (Koei Tecmo) {2011-02-10} - 323.168 / 323.168
12. [NDS] Pokemon Black / White (Pokemon Co.) {2010-09-18} - 303.299 / 5.218.112
13. [3DS] Professor Layton and the Mask of Miracle (Level 5) {2011-02-26} - 301.156 / 301.156
14. [PSP] Tales of the World: Radiant Mythology 3 (Bandai Namco) {2011-02-10} - 275.202 / 275.202
15. [3DS] Nintendogs + Cats (Shiba, Toy Poodle, French Bulldog & New Friends) (Nintendo) {2011-02-26} - 244.048 / 244.048
16. [3DS] The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D (Nintendo) {2011-06-16} - 223.260 / 223.260
17. [NDS] Ni no Kuni: Shikkoku no Madoushi (Level 5) {2010-12-09} - 217.847 / 550.158
18. [NDS] Gyakuten Kenji 2 (Capcom) {2011-02-03} - 214.994 / 214.994
19. [WII] Mario Sports Mix (Nintendo) {2010-11-25} - 207.449 / 629.494
20. [WII] Mario Kart Wii (Nintendo) {2008-04-10} - 204.858 / 3.182.494


All I could find in Japanese blogs.

 

[electroplankton]

Yes, because Level-5 made absolutely no games before WKC and Layton...

It developed three jRPGs on PS2 under Sony, but since it self-published its titles, it has chosen DS over the rest, with just one title on PSP (Little Battlers); on the Nintendo console it found a huge success with Layton, also in the West, an incredible success with Inazuma Eleven (the most successful new IP in this generation in Japan), a moderate success with Ni no Kuni and now it fully supports 3DS with a lot of games, both new IPs and mentioned franchises.
So, NOW I see the relationship between Level 5 and Nintendo stronger than the one with Sony.

Layton 5 isn't done selling yet, and is getting a renewed campaign in Japan too. It's a game that really sells to Japan's casual and female audiences, which haven't exactly embraced 3DS quite yet. As those groups buy 3DS systems though, sales of games like Nintendogs and Layton will continue to grow alongside them. I think sales wise Layton 5 will ultimately come closer to Layton 4 than Layton 4 did to Layton 3.

Yes, I know that Layton is targeted to almost everyone, and I'm very curious to see the holiday's performance of the title. 400k copies are not far to reach, and the sequel will surely rise.

Inazuma sells to kids chiefly though, so the holiday launch makes sense and it's coming in around some other decent to big sellers in that period too (Mario Kart, Super Mario, MGS3, Slime Morimori 3, Mario & Sonic 3, etc). These are titles that will help push each other and the system. I don't think it'll be a million seller off the bat, but it's won't be sent out to die either.

I do hope 3DS will sell well from October to November since there are a lot of games which deserve to sell.

 

[Mpl90]

Famitsu 2011 half-year top 20 (2010-12-27~2011-06-26)

01. [PSP] Monster Hunter Freedom 3 (Capcom) {2010-12-01} - 968.269 / 4.449.258
02. [NDS] Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker 2 Professional (Square Enix) {2011-03-31} - 469.469 / 469.469
03. [PSP] Dissidia 012 (Duodecim) Final Fantasy (Square Enix) {2011-03-03} - 454.522 / 454.522
04. [PS3] Dynasty Warriors 7 (Koei Tecmo) {2011-03-10} - 443.873 / 443.873
05. [PS3] Yakuza: Of the End (SEGA) {2011-06-09} - 376.193 / 376.193
06. [WII] Donkey Kong Country Returns (Nintendo) {2010-12-09} - 368.527 / 928.495
07. [PSP] Super Robot Wars Z 2nd: Hakai-Hen (Bandai Namco) {2011-04-14} - 364.881 / 364.881
08. [PSP] Phantasy Star Portable 2: Infinity (SEGA) {2011-02-24} - 352.511 / 352.511
09. [WII] Wii Party (Nintendo) {2010-07-08} - 349.951 / 1.889.179
10. [PSP] SD Gundam G Generation: World (Bandai Namco) {2011-02-24} - 332.278 / 332.278
11. [PS3] Samurai Warriors 3 Z (Koei Tecmo) {2011-02-10} - 323.168 / 323.168
12. [NDS] Pokemon Black / White (Pokemon Co.) {2010-09-18} - 303.299 / 5.218.112
13. [3DS] Professor Layton and the Mask of Miracle (Level 5) {2011-02-26} - 301.156 / 301.156
14. [PSP] Tales of the World: Radiant Mythology 3 (Bandai Namco) {2011-02-10} - 275.202 / 275.202
15. [3DS] Nintendogs + Cats (Shiba, Toy Poodle, French Bulldog & New Friends) (Nintendo) {2011-02-26} - 244.048 / 244.048
16. [3DS] The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D (Nintendo) {2011-06-16} - 223.260 / 223.260
17. [NDS] Ni no Kuni: Shikkoku no Madoushi (Level 5) {2010-12-09} - 217.847 / 550.158
18. [NDS] Gyakuten Kenji 2 (Capcom) {2011-02-03} - 214.994 / 214.994
19. [WII] Mario Sports Mix (Nintendo) {2010-11-25} - 207.449 / 629.494
20. [WII] Mario Kart Wii (Nintendo) {2008-04-10} - 204.858 / 3.182.494


All I could find in Japanese blogs.

Let's hope we'll find the rest.
I'm interested in other 3DS software performances, even in Puzzle Bobble XD

...GOD @ Mario Sports Mix O______O

 

[electroplankton]

Dissidia Duodecim went to sell half the first one: good that Nomura wants to develop other games under this brand but in other genres.

Pokémon Black&White crosses 5,2 million copies; I wonder when it will overcome Diamond&Pearl.

 

[Datschge]

Level 5 started as a contract developer. That's what most developers do. Then they started selfpublishing. That's what very few developer do successfully. With their first two IP series they managed to become one among the biggest publishers in Japan. That's unprecedented.

Internationally they owe the success of Layton to Nintendo of Europe's genius rebranding. But that is it already as far as dependencies as an independent publisher/developer are concerned.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Some of the PSP titles (Dissidia 2, SRTZ2nd, PSP2i) seem lower than I'd have expected. 3DS is off to an awful start.

How's the top 20 compare to previous years? Outside MHP3 and maybe DQMJ2P, nothing really seems all that great?

 

[Sammy Samusu]

Dissidia Duodecim went to sell half the first one: good that Nomura wants to develop other games under this brand but in other genres.

Pokémon Black&White crosses 5,2 million copies; I wonder when it will overcome Diamond&Pearl.

Never.

 

[Spiegel]

Some of the PSP titles (Dissidia 2, SRTZ2nd, PSP2i) seem lower than I'd have expected. 3DS is off to an awful start.

How's the top 20 compare to previous years? Outside MHP3 and maybe DQMJ2P, nothing really seems all that great?

The three expansions, DQMJ2P, PSP2i and Dissidia Duodecim (not Dissidia 2) all sold ~ half the units of the original release.

SRTZ2nd is low compared to other main SRT games but I think Media-Create had the game at >400k. Still lower than the latest Ps2 games.

 

[Mpl90]

The three expansions, DQMJ2P, PSP2i and Dissidia Duodecim (not Dissidia 2) all sold ~ half the units of the original release.

SRTZ2nd is low compared to other main SRT games but I think Media-Create had the game at >400k. Still lower than the latest Ps2 games.

Naaah,SRTZ2nd is not bad, also because it is the first part of the game.
Namco will release then the second part: same engine, most of the sprites shared ( I think )...easy profit!

I don't think the 3DS has had an awful start.
Awful starts are those of PS3, 360, Gamecube.
Not spectacular, obvious...but good I'd say.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

The three expansions, DQMJ2P, PSP2i and Dissidia Duodecim (not Dissidia 2) all sold ~ half the units of the original release.

SRTZ2nd is low compared to other main SRT games but I think Media-Create had the game at >400k. Still lower than the latest Ps2 games.

I thought Duodecim was a sequel? It's not?

DQMJ2P was hugely supply constrained, I don't think anyone really expected it to sell what it did in the end. Too bad, it probably could've sold more if they'd have gotten copies out quicker.

 

[AranhaHunter]

Layton's success in the west is largely attributed to Nintendo. It'd be like if Final Fantasy VIII/IX had gone to Dreamcast instead in the late 1990s.

Honestly, I don't think there'd be much controversy over Inazuma. But Layton would definitely be considered a betrayalaton after all Nintendo's done for it.

I don't think Layton is as big a franchise as FF. Layton is definitely well known among the hardcore community, but the franchise is not big enough for it to have meltdowns over. Finally, there's no controversy because L5 can do whatever they want with their IP, they are a business after all and their bottom line is more important than being 'good friends' with another company. Of course, I do expect Nintendo to keep making it worth their while to keep Layton games exclusive on Nintendo systems.