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Media Create Sales: Week 39, 2012 (Sep 24 - Sep 30)

It's a catch 22 though. Vita needs to push more units to gain publisher confidence, but they need more games to sell units. If Sony had confidence that Vita was the right choice moving forward, I think they would be happy to kill off the PSP.

It just goes back to how asinine their "10 year cycle, everything's going according to plan" comments are.

And have publishers raging at having to cancel projects for a platform with 18mln install base? Instead being forced to most likely publish on new handheld that is getting crushed by 3DS?

L

O

L

I'm sure Nintendo worked very closely with major players to determine together when will DS be phased-out. Most likely Sony didn't even had that idea. What for? WE ARE SONY, LOLZ.
 

saichi

Member
Code:
3DS	2,075,596
PS3	  440,221

As you can see, the PS3 is absolutely crushing the 3DS and dominating the attention of every Japanese publisher.

Here are some charts that help prove this.

college10uc3e.jpg


20081120-baltic-dry-s2lfbr.png


It should be obvious to everyone that the PS3 shall continue its domination well into 2018, as the opportunity cost of switching to a new platform is simply too high.

blows my mind... but you forgot PS3 is a second half machine. It sells most of units in H2. you will see after the holiday season. ;-)
 

donny2112

Member
Code:
3DS	2,075,596
PS3	  440,221

As you can see, the PS3 is absolutely crushing the 3DS and dominating the attention of every Japanese publisher.

Here are some charts that help prove this.

college10uc3e.jpg


20081120-baltic-dry-s2lfbr.png


It should be obvious to everyone that the PS3 shall continue its domination well into 2018, as the opportunity cost of switching to a new platform is simply too high.

Alpha console.

Nice charts! :)
 

Bruno MB

Member
[3DS] Animal Crossing Jump Out [任天堂] 2012年11月8日 4,800円
[3DS] Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Magnagate and the Infinite Labyrinth [ポケモン] 2012年11月23日 4,800円
[3DS] Layton VS Ace Attorney [レベルファイブ] 2012年11月29日 5,980円
[3DS] Paper Mario Sticker Star [任天堂] 2012年12月6日 4,800円
[3DS] Inazuma Eleven GO2 Chrono Stone Wind/Lightning [レベルファイブ] 2012年12月13日 5,500円
[3DS] FANTASY LIFE [レベルファイブ] 2012年12月27日 5,800円

These titles are pretty much overkill for this holiday season. We are talking about 2 potential million-selling titles (Animal Crossing is a lock, it'll sell much more and Pokemon Mystery Dungeon), then Layton VS Ace Attorney and Paper Mario Sticker Star should cross the half-million mark, while Inazuma Eleven GO 2 should get close to it. And finally Fantasy Life which is a wild card, it certainly has a sizable chance to be a flop since there is a lot of competition but it could also be a nice surprise, only time will tell.
 
I hope Fantasy Life does well. AC clones tend to (Magician's Quest, Felyne Village), but launching so close to Jump Out probably wasn't the smartest move.
 

Takao

Banned
Did everyone miss where this wasn't so much about software, but rather price? The DS was proving prohibitive at the beginning of the 3DS' life. The price cut did wonders for a multitude of reasons, one of them being that they actually made the 3DS cheaper than the DS (LL only, I think?) making it stupid not to purchase a 3DS.

PSP doesn't need to keep shifting units if developers want to make games for it. It already has a healthy installed base. Vita NEEDS to move hardware if Sony ever wants devs to move their efforts there.

Is this making any sense?

I don't see how killing off the PSP benefits Vita since anyone buying their first PSP in 2012 probably wasn't in the market for a Vita. SCEJ and the remainder of PSP's software lineup is heavy on games that are aimed at children. Traditionally PlayStation hardware doesn't aim itself at children in its early days, and given Nintendo has a cheaper platform (that even with a price cut Sony wouldn't be able to match or better with Vita) and games that target children they'd essentially be conceding an entire market to Nintendo by killing off the PSP.

While it's true that killing off the PSP still leaves the gigantic market of existing ones, third parties aren't going to be eager to continue releasing games on hardware that isn't made. If SCE isn't making PSPs that means they're not marketing PSP, which means third parties can't benefit from the campaigns SCEJ runs. For example, to promote the new PSP price drop SCEJ ran commercials, said commercial is entirely devoted to (then) upcoming third party software. A platform that isn't being made or pushed anymore also means retailers will begin to phase out their support for it too as customers go to platforms that are getting support.

In the scenario where it's not a kid or something who's buying a PSP in 2012, those people are probably looking to play all of the games PSP has on the cheap. Given Vita doesn't play UMDs, this person is also probably not in the market for a Vita ... unless that mysterious accessory port on Vita is for a UMD drive or something, haha.
 

Onesimos

Member
Since New Super Mario Bros. 2 is currently in the Top 10 with over a million copies sold, how is it comparing with the the original title on the DS?
 

ohlawd

Member
And finally Fantasy Life which is a wild card, it certainly has a sizable chance to be a flop since there is a lot of competition but it could also be a nice surprise, only time will tell.

I hope Fantasy Life ends up being a success.
 
I don't see how killing off the PSP benefits Vita since anyone buying their first PSP in 2012 probably wasn't in the market for a Vita. SCEJ and the remainder of PSP's software lineup is heavy on games that are aimed at children. Traditionally PlayStation hardware doesn't aim itself at children in its early days, and given Nintendo has a cheaper platform (that even with a price cut Sony wouldn't be able to match or better with Vita) and games that target children they'd essentially be conceding an entire market to Nintendo by killing off the PSP.

While it's true that killing off the PSP still leaves the gigantic market of existing ones, third parties aren't going to be eager to continue releasing games on hardware that isn't made. If SCE isn't making PSPs that means they're not marketing PSP, which means third parties can't benefit from the campaigns SCEJ runs. For example, to promote the new PSP price drop SCEJ ran commercials, said commercial is entirely devoted to (then) upcoming third party software. A platform that isn't being made or pushed anymore also means retailers will begin to phase out their support for it too as customers go to platforms that are getting support.

In the scenario where it's not a kid or something who's buying a PSP in 2012, those people are probably looking to play all of the games PSP has on the cheap. Given Vita doesn't play UMDs, this person is also probably not in the market for a Vita ... unless that mysterious accessory port on Vita is for a UMD drive or something, haha.

Not to mention - let's be realistic. PSP is selling ~20K per week on the basis of large software library and LOW PRICE. Vita will not start selling if PSP is killed, the handheld is simply TOO EXPENSIVE versus the competition.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
Not to mention - let's be realistic. PSP is selling ~20K per week on the basis of large software library and LOW PRICE. Vita will not start selling if PSP is killed, the handheld is simply TOO EXPENSIVE versus the competition.

Maybe would have worked if they lowered the price enough and had full BC, but Sony managed to screw that up so they have essentially two separate handhelds each with there own distinctivie advantages and dsiadvantages, where someone interested on one has a good chance of not beng interested in the other, compared to say the 3DS where the logical choice for anyone interested in a DS would be to get it.
 

Takao

Banned
Maybe would have worked if they lowered the price enough and had full BC, but Sony managed to screw that up so they have essentially two separate handhelds each with there own distinctivie advantages and dsiadvantages, where someone interested on one has a good chance of not beng interested in the other, compared to say the 3DS where the logical choice for anyone interested in a DS would be to get it.

I'm not sure why SCE didn't make a Vita with a UMD drive just for Japan. If Europe alone can justify PSP street I think Japan could justify Vita UMD. I suppose they could still do that, and offer a UMD dongle that ties into the mysterious Vita port, lol.
 
Doesn't sound like a terrible average, sure it ups and dips but you can't really say it's been selling 30k a week, nor can u really say 10k.

Doing a simple average it's selling 15k a week since the beginning of the year, and during last few months it's definitely been selling closer to 10k.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
I'm not sure why SCE didn't make a Vita with a UMD drive just for Japan. If Europe alone can justify PSP street I think Japan could justify Vita UMD. I suppose they could still do that, and offer a UMD dongle that ties into the mysterious Vita port, lol.

I don't really get it with Sony, it's sad to say with for a multimillion dollar company with god knows how many stakeholders and dependencies, but of there Japan focused intiatives and ideas, lack basic foresight and common sense. It really is embarassing.

I mean really, a few blips are one thing every business has those, but everything regarding the vita has just been a massive "whut" to me.

I mean the hell were they thinking, I mean given core idea, and selling point of the vita I doubt it was ever going to be a major success, but Sony smehow managed to destroy every possible advantage this system has going for them.

To put it simply there managing of the Vita has been incompetant. Just completely incompetant. I mean say what you want about Nintendo's oldfashionedness and unwilling to accept change, but when shit hit the fan they bucked up and progressed. When shit hit the fan with Vita, (a lot of it being they're own shit), they just left the fan running. If I was a shareholder, I drop that shit like it was hot and stay the hell away or at least hope they have better management in other sectors.

Doing a simple average it's selling 15k a week since the beginning of the year, and during last few months it's definitely been selling closer to 10k.

Yeah i know I realised when i edited.
 

Datschge

Member
I'm not sure why some people keep downplaying it, but Sony's inability to kill off the PSP is a major factor in Vita's floundering.

Why are they letting a last-gen console stifle their current-gen machine's sales? Nintendo was so aggressive with their pricecut that they actually made the 3DS cheaper at MSRP than the DS (at least for a bit).
There is no way anyone could argue that the PSP selling more units YTD than the Vita is not having a negative impact on Vita sales.

The biggest issue here is that Sony unnecessarily split the market it already controlled, thus losing it to the competitor.

PSP was still doing very well and is making Sony profit, so everyone still actively involved doesn't have an interest in killing that market. Vita on the other hand is sold at a loss for Sony, so it's only gains a positive return once enough software is sold at the same time. Ideally the transition from an older system to the top end successor proceeds transparently, software still made for the older system also works on the newer system and the gain in hardware install base of the successor encourages developers to actively make use of its features which again can drive the demand for the hardware. Sony's big issue now is that they never offered a smooth transition from PSP to Vita to its customers. Sony apparently hoped that indirect backward compatibility through PSN would be sufficient, but that this wouldn't work out was foreseeable after the "success" of PSP Go.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
I don't really get it with Sony, it's sad to say with for a multimillion dollar company with god knows how many stakeholders and dependencies, but of there Japan focused intiatives and ideas, lack basic foresight and common sense. It really is embarassing.

I mean really, a few blips are one thing every business has those, but everything regarding the vita has just been a massive "whut" to me.

I mean the hell were they thinking, I mean given core idea, and selling point of the vita I doubt it was ever going to be a major success, but Sony smehow managed to destroy every possible advantage this system has going for them.

To put it simply there managing of the Vita has been incompetant. Just completely incompetant. I mean say what you want about Nintendo's oldfashionedness and unwilling to accept change, but when shit hit the fan they bucked up and progressed. When shit hit the fan with Vita, (a lot of it being they're own shit), they just left the fan running. If I was a shareholder, I drop that shit like it was hot and stay the hell away or at least hope they have better management in other sectors.
Out of curiousity, what would you do? I'm not thinking about "dropping the price" etc., but how would you do it to begin with? Might be easier to say in hindsight, but i'm still curious.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
I'm not sure why SCE didn't make a Vita with a UMD drive just for Japan. If Europe alone can justify PSP street I think Japan could justify Vita UMD. I suppose they could still do that, and offer a UMD dongle that ties into the mysterious Vita port, lol.

I've been saying this for awhile but it is a matter of hindsight.

It would have made the system bigger, more expensive, more power hungry, but in Japan where UMD is still king as far as Sony releases go it also would have meant a total replacement of the PSP like we saw with the fully BC 3DS.

The western Vita would have been associated as the Vita Go though.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
Out of curiousity, what would you do? I'm not thinking about "dropping the price" etc., but how would you do it to begin with? Might be easy to say in hinsight, but i'm still curious.

Full BC at the very least is a glaring and obvious must. If your releasing a new system in which your current system, is still very prosperous and much cheaper, simply assumming people would move on is naive as you can get. Market the two systems side by side (by that I mean any advertiments you have that would have a PSp exchange it for a PSV), Kill off any PSP advertsiements. With full BC anything for PSP would automatically be for the vita. Ideally get as many successors to well known Psp brands exclusively to the Vita. New Ip's are nice and Sony should aslways be investing in them but when your entering late into this sort of competition you need something decisive against your Competitor. MH was Nintendo's. It was essentially the killing stroke. Sony may not have ever been able to gain MH4 had it tried but it at the very least needed something in retalitation. Any large brand exclusivity. (And when i say large, I mean large..)

I'd also ideally engineer the thing to be at bit cheaper at least around $200, if not initially soon afterwards. The PS Vita was never going to be a easy sell in west, if they were really going to bother, securing decent support while channeling a new avenue. Health and sports being obvious, tech is probably a harder gain a decent foothold in. Combining in tried and true fads is typically a decent way to go though.

I didn't need hindsight for any of these as most of these things Sony should have been thinking about or doing anyway. For some reason they weren't
 
I think everyone just glosses over the fact that Vita released almost a year later. I think no matter what the price was giving Nintendo a year haeadstart was the biggest mistake. It's what basically allowed Nintendo to convince all the publishers to develop for 3DS and allowed Nintendo to correct all their mistakes. And now Sony seems to be poised to miss 2013 for the PS4.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
I think everyone just glosses over the fact that Vita released almost a year later. I think no matter what the price was giving Nintendo a year haeadstart was the biggest mistake. It's what basically allowed Nintendo to convince all the publishers to develop for 3DS and allowed Nintendo to correct all their mistakes. And now Sony seems to be poised to miss 2013 for the PS4.

They could have released day one at the same price and it still would not have mattered.

3DS was the DS's successor with enough power to satisfy almost all Japanese developers. It was basically the PS2 to the DS's PS1.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
I think everyone just glosses over the fact that Vita released almost a year later. I think no matter what the price was giving Nintendo a year haeadstart was the biggest mistake. It's what basically allowed Nintendo to convince all the publishers to develop for 3DS and allowed Nintendo to correct all their mistakes. And now Sony seems to be poised to miss 2013 for the PS4.

Sony wasn't in a dire position with the Vita though, fact of the matter was the PSP was kicking the 3DS's ass all different ways until near the price cut. Sony did not capitalize on this with the Vita AT ALL, not one single bit. That's why I was calling them incompentant in regards to Japan, The market share the PSP had in japan wasn't an easy thing to come by (any new competitor would certainly have issue to match it), and Sony just threw it away to the dogs. And I'm just wonder how. Sure the 3DS was always going to eat into it a fair but the 3Ds only managed to eat into it as much as it did due to Sony's help.

I who seriously thought it was a good idea to launch it in Japan, with no real competnatnt way of Full BC. Did the fact the PSP was selling so well in spite of the 3DS not tell them that it's library was actually worth damn to a new customer.
 
I've been saying this for awhile but it is a matter of hindsight.

It would have made the system bigger, more expensive, more power hungry, but in Japan where UMD is still king as far as Sony releases go it also would have meant a total replacement of the PSP like we saw with the fully BC 3DS.

The western Vita would have been associated as the Vita Go though.

Moral of the story: UMD is an awful format.
 
They could have released day one at the same price and it still would not have mattered.

3DS was the DS's successor with enough power to satisfy almost all Japanese developers. It was basically the PS2 to the DS's PS1.

I think it would have. Vita vs 3DS at the same price point. Vita would have done much better, and Sony may have been able to convince publishers Vita was the place to go for many of the announced 3DS games.
 

FoneBone

Member
I think everyone just glosses over the fact that Vita released almost a year later. I think no matter what the price was giving Nintendo a year haeadstart was the biggest mistake. It's what basically allowed Nintendo to convince all the publishers to develop for 3DS and allowed Nintendo to correct all their mistakes. And now Sony seems to be poised to miss 2013 for the PS4.

Releasing later definitely hurt them, but I think third parties would've bet on the 3DS regardless.

(What Man God said.)


I think it would have. Vita vs 3DS at the same price point. Vita would have done much better, and Sony may have been able to convince publishers Vita was the place to go for many of the announced 3DS games.
Eh, I think at most you would've seen more 3DS/Vita multiplatform games. Third parties still would've expected 3DS to outsell Vita, and still wouldn't have been eager to jump to HD budgets with their portable efforts.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Moral of the story: UMD is an awful format.

It is but because of a variety of reasons it's a much better format for BC then downloads.

It's a damned if you do damned if you don't and it was done to save money on the PSP. They could have gone flash back then but the first of the bigger games like LCS and Portable Ops would have been expensive.
 

muu

Member
Really, Vita's job was done once Kaz got to present it along with his new position as president of Sony. Any possible success of the system would have just been a bonus.

BTW, if you want some conspiracy theories here's one to take with a pound of salt:

131 It's@名無しさん sage 2012/09/30(日) 12:31:11.46
撤退戦どうしようかって頭悩ませてるのに次とかw

あとこれは電波だから聞き流して欲しいけど
小売りさんは今後リアル店頭での予約にも気をつけた方がいいよ
ネットでは以前からあったけど、人使えばリアル店舗でもいけるって言い出してる
もうねなんでもありですわ

from the SCE thread @ 2ch Sony forum.

"...This is just some random airwaves being transmitted from my head, but retailers better be careful of in-store preorders. We've been doing it online, but if you use enough people they're saying it's possible in real stores too. Anything goes nowadays..."

The general assumption is that they're talking about preordering for an item and cancelling just prior to shipment. Preorders of Sony-owned Aniplex animes over at Amazon earlier this year required users enter words in those "I'm not a bot" systems, presumably because empty preorders were being processed in a mass scale. Retailers in Japan cannot return stock to suppliers, so there's potential for no-money-down preorders to be used to Sony's benefit. Sony's known for more or less destroying a market when it pulls out of one, and what better than ruining the lives of a bunch of retailers?

As ridiculous as this may sound, we're seeing this from the thread where Ueda's exile was mentioned at least half a year before it happened, and names such as Vita/Orbis spilled out months before it was confirmed by any other source. It may all be graffiti on the toilet stall, but some people are sick enough about their jobs to add some truth into all the nonsense.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Full BC at the very least is a glaring and obvious must. If your releasing a new system in which your current system, is still very prosperous and much cheaper, simply assumming people would move on is naive as you can get. Market the two systems side by side (by that I mean any advertiments you have that would have a PSp exchange it for a PSV), Kill off any PSP advertsiements. With full BC anything for PSP would automatically be for the vita. Ideally get as many successors to well known Psp brands exclusively to the Vita. New Ip's are nice and Sony should aslways be investing in them but when your entering late into this sort of competition you need something decisive against your Competitor. MH was Nintendo's. It was essentially the killing stroke. Sony may not have ever been able to gain MH4 had it tried but it at the very least needed something in retalitation. Any large brand exclusivity. (And when i say large, I mean large..)

I'd also ideally engineer the thing to be at bit cheaper at least around $200, if not initially soon afterwards. The PS Vita was never going to be a easy sell in west, if they were really going to bother, securing decent support while channeling a new avenue. Health and sports being obvious, tech is probably a harder gain a decent foothold in. Combining in tried and true fads is typically a decent way to go though.
Thanks for the answer :) Backward compability with an UMD drive would make the unit bigger. How much would this affect the sales?

Which brand are you thinking of getting exclusive of? Would this be possible in the first place? Did Sony not try this?

Designing it for $200 would mean that sacrifices would have to be made compared to how the current Vita is (also factor in that an UMD drive would cost some extra money too). Do you have any more detailed description on how you would design it? How much would these sacrifices affect the sales?


I didn't need hindsight for any of these as most of these things Sony should have been thinking about or doing anyway. For some reason they weren't
I ment hindsight as in if Vita (or any system for that matter) ended up being successful from the start, i dont think you would use these arguements.


BTW, if you want some conspiracy theories here's one to take with a pound of salt:

*text*
That is a conspiracy theory alright :)
 

creid

Member
then Layton VS Ace Attorney and Paper Mario Sticker Star should cross the half-million mark, while Inazuma Eleven GO 2 should get close to it.
I wouldn't bee too sure about Layton vs AA. Layton 5 never hit half a million, and AA can barely hit 300k.
 

Nekki

Member
Code:
<pre class="alt2" dir="ltr" style="
		margin: 0px;
		padding: 6px;
		border: 1px inset;
		width: 640px;
		height: 50px;
		text-align: left;
		overflow: auto">3DS	2,075,596
PS3	  440,221
As you can see, the PS3 is absolutely crushing the 3DS and dominating the attention of every Japanese publisher.

Here are some charts that help prove this.

college10uc3e.jpg


20081120-baltic-dry-s2lfbr.png


It should be obvious to everyone that the PS3 shall continue its domination well into 2018, as the opportunity cost of switching to a new platform is simply too high.

Parmenides? Is that you??
 

Takao

Banned
Really, Vita's job was done once Kaz got to present it along with his new position as president of Sony. Any possible success of the system would have just been a bonus.

BTW, if you want some conspiracy theories here's one to take with a pound of salt:

131 It's&#65312;&#21517;&#28961;&#12375;&#12373;&#12435; sage 2012/09/30(&#26085;) 12:31:11.46
&#25764;&#36864;&#25126;&#12393;&#12358;&#12375;&#12424;&#12358;&#12363;&#12387;&#12390;&#38957;&#24745;&#12414;&#12379;&#12390;&#12427;&#12398;&#12395;&#27425;&#12392;&#12363;&#65367;

&#12354;&#12392;&#12371;&#12428;&#12399;&#38651;&#27874;&#12384;&#12363;&#12425;&#32862;&#12365;&#27969;&#12375;&#12390;&#27442;&#12375;&#12356;&#12369;&#12393;
&#23567;&#22770;&#12426;&#12373;&#12435;&#12399;&#20170;&#24460;&#12522;&#12450;&#12523;&#24215;&#38957;&#12391;&#12398;&#20104;&#32004;&#12395;&#12418;&#27671;&#12434;&#12388;&#12369;&#12383;&#26041;&#12364;&#12356;&#12356;&#12424;
&#12493;&#12483;&#12488;&#12391;&#12399;&#20197;&#21069;&#12363;&#12425;&#12354;&#12387;&#12383;&#12369;&#12393;&#12289;&#20154;&#20351;&#12360;&#12400;&#12522;&#12450;&#12523;&#24215;&#33303;&#12391;&#12418;&#12356;&#12369;&#12427;&#12387;&#12390;&#35328;&#12356;&#20986;&#12375;&#12390;&#12427;
&#12418;&#12358;&#12397;&#12394;&#12435;&#12391;&#12418;&#12354;&#12426;&#12391;&#12377;&#12431;

from the SCE thread @ 2ch Sony forum.

"...This is just some random airwaves being transmitted from my head, but retailers better be careful of in-store preorders. We've been doing it online, but if you use enough people they're saying it's possible in real stores too. Anything goes nowadays..."

The general assumption is that they're talking about preordering for an item and cancelling just prior to shipment. Preorders of Sony-owned Aniplex animes over at Amazon earlier this year required users enter words in those "I'm not a bot" systems, presumably because empty preorders were being processed in a mass scale. Retailers in Japan cannot return stock to suppliers, so there's potential for no-money-down preorders to be used to Sony's benefit. Sony's known for more or less destroying a market when it pulls out of one, and what better than ruining the lives of a bunch of retailers?

As ridiculous as this may sound, we're seeing this from the thread where Ueda's exile was mentioned at least half a year before it happened, and names such as Vita/Orbis spilled out months before it was confirmed by any other source. It may all be graffiti on the toilet stall, but some people are sick enough about their jobs to add some truth into all the nonsense.

wat
 

Alrus

Member
I wouldn't bee too sure about Layton vs AA. Layton 5 never hit half a million, and AA can barely hit 300k.

AA4 sold over 600k afaik.

Layton 5 was a big decline indeed, it'll be interesting to see if this one will do better (same with IE Go 2).
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
Thanks for the answer :) Backward compability with an UMD drive would make the unit bigger and it would also drain the battery faster. How much would this affect the sales?

Which brand are you thinking of getting exclusive of? Would this be possible in the first place? Did Sony not try this?

Desiging it for $200 would mean that sacrifices would have to be made compared to how the current Vita is (also factor in that an UMD drive would cost some extra money too). Do you have any more detailed description on how you would design it? How much would these sacrifices affect the sales?



I ment hindsight as in if Vita (or any system for that matter) ended up being successful from the start, i dont think you would use these arguements.

Sacrifices would obvious have to be made, and really it's obvious by now Vita's beastly raw power isn't much of a selling point. The PSP managed to do well in Japan despite that design and all the issues with the UMD. The fact until last year the psp continued to sell that well meant, a large amount of people don't care. If you really want to cover all bases release a version without it and one with it, but it needed to be there in Some point.

All these things such as increased portability and ergonomics are pointless if the main selling point isn't there. A Neo Geo Pocket could be the thinest, most lightweight and ergnomic handheld yet, if it doesn't have the software noone would care. Those things are there as an addition to something else. you should sacrifice major things for them.

I ment hindsight as in if Vita (or any system for that matter) ended up being successful from the start, i dont think you would use these arguements.
The reason why I was arguing against hindsight is there's certain trends, and all trends pointed towards the Vita being unsuccessful if sony did not do certain things. Vita was not a wild card in any way shape or form outside of more power and inputs. There's nothing that stood out about it no risk. It was fairly easy to predict the Vita not doing well if Sony didn't do certain things.

If there was some risk any risk then you could say hey it's easy to talk in hindsight. The Vita was about as safe as evolution of the PSP as you could possibly get. Unless consumer tastes had changed in the space of a day everyone knew how the vita would turn out at leats intially in the west, and how it would turn out in Japan if it didn't get any software support.

If I was a betting man I'd bet good money on it.
 

Takao

Banned
It basically translates that Medarot 7-10 were going to be fully localized for the Vita but Sony stopped that because they learned Beyblade had partial nudity and blood.

I dunno why Nintendo has seemingly never helped Imagineer/Rocket bring their games to the west. I'm pretty certain they've been Nintendo exclusive for years. The only Medarot game not on Nintendo hardware was R ... back on the PS1.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
I dunno why Nintendo has seemingly never helped Imagineer/Rocket bring their games to the west. I'm pretty certain they've been Nintendo exclusive for years. The only Medarot game not on Nintendo hardware was R ... back on the PS1.

Seems fairly weird. Surely some have come over. It's not like this is some random quirky Japanese game, it did have an anime that run on kids tv, making it recognisable. Surely they released some when the tv show ran.
 

Takao

Banned
Seems fairly weird. Surely some have come over. It's not this some random quirky Japanese game, it did have an anime that run on kids tv, making it recognisable. Surely they released some when the tv show ran.

Natsume published three of them in North America on GBA, and Gamecube. Natsume JP operated as the developer on a bunch of the games, but all of them were tied to the anime even though Medarot games existed before the anime : /
 

test_account

XP-39C²
First and formost, every unit needs to have a memory card.
Yep, i think that would be a good idea.


Sacrifices would obvious have to be made, and really it's obvious by now Vita's beastly raw power isn't much of a selling point. The PSP managed to do well in Japan despite that design and all the issues with the UMD. The fact until last year the psp continued to sell that well meant, a large amount of people don't care. If you really want to cover all bases release a version without it and one with it, but it needed to be there in Some point.
The PSP did actually have some trouble in the begining. There were prediction that the PSP LTD in Japan would be around 6-7 million if i remember correctly. Of course this wasnt just due to the UMD drive, but i do believe that some arguements were used against the UMD at this point. But in these days it shows that people dont care however, that is true.

Yeah, i think that it could be a good idea to make two models, or one model to begin with and remove the backward compability in a later model (like Sony did with the PS3 and that Nintendo did with the DSi and DSiXL). For this they would have to remove the back touch however. The back touch is something that i would remove. So far it works ok i think, but i havnt seen any really great use for it yet.


All these things such as increased portability and ergonomics are pointless if the main selling point isn't there. A Neo Geo Pocket could be the thinest, most lightweight and ergnomic handheld yet, if it doesn't have the software noone would care. Those things are there as an addition to something else. you should sacrifice major things for them.
Sure, software is the main reason for the sales indeed. But the hardware is also important. I'm not thinking that much about the ergonomics and making it much smaller, i'm thinking more about the screen size and build quality. The market can be unpredictable, and it there is so much competition with smartphones now, so it is hard to know exactly whats needed to make it big.
 

Dalthien

Member
They could have released day one at the same price and it still would not have mattered.

3DS was the DS's successor with enough power to satisfy almost all Japanese developers. It was basically the PS2 to the DS's PS1.

I was saying well before either system launched, that I didn't see a viable path to success for Vita. As you said, the 3DS was powerful enough to support PS2-style 3D gaming, which was where the PSP had an advantage over the DS. That wouldn't be an advantage for Vita. And even if every 3rd-party release was multi-platform on both systems, that doesn't help Sony because then the differentiating aspect of the systems is 1st-party software, and Sony loses that battle horrifically. And I believed that Capcom botched their approach to DS and missed out on the most popular system in Japan's history, so I was sure that they would want to correct that and be on the 3DS in a big way right from the start.

So I didn't see the point of Vita right from the initial murmurings of it. But launching alongside the 3DS would have given them a chance. They could have come out of the gate and kept things fairly close with the 3DS for the first 6 months, maybe swing some exclusivity deals for a few big 3rd-party titles while the systems were still on even footing. Maybe the massive 3DS price-drop is seen as an act of desperation in the middle of an active hardware battle, instead of giving the 3DS all that time to fix its early problems without an actual competitor to take advantage of the 3DS struggles.

As I said, launching with the 3DS would have given Vita a chance. Not a big chance, but if things break the right way, it could be poised to take advantage. Launching after the 3DS had already built up an almost 5M unit install base meant that there was no chance at all.

If you're not giving yourself even a tiny chance - why bother going forward at that point anyway. Once they conceded the early launch to Nintendo, Sony should have just scrapped their Vita plans and moved all that manpower over to giving the PS4 the best possible shot they could.
 
Really, Vita's job was done once Kaz got to present it along with his new position as president of Sony. Any possible success of the system would have just been a bonus.

BTW, if you want some conspiracy theories here's one to take with a pound of salt:

131 It's&#65312;&#21517;&#28961;&#12375;&#12373;&#12435; sage 2012/09/30(&#26085;) 12:31:11.46
&#25764;&#36864;&#25126;&#12393;&#12358;&#12375;&#12424;&#12358;&#12363;&#12387;&#12390;&#38957;&#24745;&#12414;&#12379;&#12390;&#12427;&#12398;&#12395;&#27425;&#12392;&#12363;&#65367;

&#12354;&#12392;&#12371;&#12428;&#12399;&#38651;&#27874;&#12384;&#12363;&#12425;&#32862;&#12365;&#27969;&#12375;&#12390;&#27442;&#12375;&#12356;&#12369;&#12393;
&#23567;&#22770;&#12426;&#12373;&#12435;&#12399;&#20170;&#24460;&#12522;&#12450;&#12523;&#24215;&#38957;&#12391;&#12398;&#20104;&#32004;&#12395;&#12418;&#27671;&#12434;&#12388;&#12369;&#12383;&#26041;&#12364;&#12356;&#12356;&#12424;
&#12493;&#12483;&#12488;&#12391;&#12399;&#20197;&#21069;&#12363;&#12425;&#12354;&#12387;&#12383;&#12369;&#12393;&#12289;&#20154;&#20351;&#12360;&#12400;&#12522;&#12450;&#12523;&#24215;&#33303;&#12391;&#12418;&#12356;&#12369;&#12427;&#12387;&#12390;&#35328;&#12356;&#20986;&#12375;&#12390;&#12427;
&#12418;&#12358;&#12397;&#12394;&#12435;&#12391;&#12418;&#12354;&#12426;&#12391;&#12377;&#12431;

from the SCE thread @ 2ch Sony forum.

"...This is just some random airwaves being transmitted from my head, but retailers better be careful of in-store preorders. We've been doing it online, but if you use enough people they're saying it's possible in real stores too. Anything goes nowadays..."

The general assumption is that they're talking about preordering for an item and cancelling just prior to shipment. Preorders of Sony-owned Aniplex animes over at Amazon earlier this year required users enter words in those "I'm not a bot" systems, presumably because empty preorders were being processed in a mass scale. Retailers in Japan cannot return stock to suppliers, so there's potential for no-money-down preorders to be used to Sony's benefit. Sony's known for more or less destroying a market when it pulls out of one, and what better than ruining the lives of a bunch of retailers?

As ridiculous as this may sound, we're seeing this from the thread where Ueda's exile was mentioned at least half a year before it happened, and names such as Vita/Orbis spilled out months before it was confirmed by any other source. It may all be graffiti on the toilet stall, but some people are sick enough about their jobs to add some truth into all the nonsense.

Hmmmm!! Interesting theory, I will say vita game preorders do seem to do remarkably well on amazon
 

Takao

Banned
Usually in business its as simple as they never bothered to try and connect with each other on it.

That reflects rather poorly on Nintendo as a platform holder then. Although Nintendo neglecting the interests of third parties is hardly something new.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
The reason why I was arguing against hindsight is there's certain trends, and all trends pointed towards the Vita being unsuccessful if sony did not do certain things. Vita was not a wild card in any way shape or form outside of more power and inputs. There's nothing that stood out about it no risk. It was fairly easy to predict the Vita not doing well if Sony didn't do certain things.

If there was some risk any risk then you could say hey it's easy to talk in hindsight. The Vita was about as safe as evolution of the PSP as you could possibly get. Unless consumer tastes had changed in the space of a day everyone knew how the vita would turn out at leats intially in the west, and how it would turn out in Japan if it didn't get any software support.

If I was a betting man I'd bet good money on it.
If the Vita was as safe evolution of the PSP as you could possibly get, and seeing that the trend in Japan was that the PSP is very succesful, wouldnt this mean that the Vita should have a very good chance of succeed there from the start?

Sony also priced the Vita at the same level as the 3DS. How would the market be today if the 3DS and Vita both were still 25.000 yen? That Nintendo would drop the price with 10.000 yen was not predictable. We didnt know how the Vita support would be further on months before the release of the Vita either. These are reasons why i think hindsight plays much into this senario.

About the western market, personally i'd say that the dual analog on a portable was actually a very good selling point there. But most of these arguements are subjective however. Before every new system being launched, you have arguements on both sides that it will sell very well or that it will sell poorly.


Hmmmm!! Interesting theory, I will say vita game preorders do seem to do remarkably well on amazon
You really believe this? If there were tons of fake pre-orders, it would mean tons of unsold games. Price collapse would happen and investigations would start on why all these fake pre-orders were going on. And you being a veteran sales-ager, you know that Amazon pre-order ranking doesnt mean much for seeing actual sales numbers :)

About unsold games, this is also quite common. It happends with all systems from time to time. Bomba-bins and all that, games being available for months at a low price because of overstock. I dont think this means that many fake pre-orders are going on and that several of game companies are trying to kill of retailers.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
That reflects rather poorly on Nintendo as a platform holder then. Although Nintendo neglecting the interests of third parties is hardly something new.

Natsume did a good job of it back when it was a property that had some small fanbase in the US.

It's not like it didn't compete with one of Nintendo's products either. Not only the obvious Pokémon bit but in practice the game is quite a bit like Custom Robo, which Nintendo was also trying to push in the GCN/DS era.
 

Takao

Banned
Natsume did a good job of it back when it was a property that had some small fanbase in the US.

It's not like it didn't compete with one of Nintendo's products either. Not only the obvious Pokémon bit but in practice the game is quite a bit like Custom Robo, which Nintendo was also trying to push in the GCN/DS era.

I'd say Natsume did a horrible job actually. They tied the games to the anime, and launched the games a year after the anime debuted in the west. Natsume even went so far as to re-skin an already existing Japanese Medarot game that had no anime tie-in so that it became an anime tie-in. This gave the stigma those were licensed games rather than what they were in actuality, the inspiration for the anime and that's something that sticks to the franchise to this day in the west.

It makes it hard to launch future games in the franchise when one company has made it tied to a specific set of characters that are no longer the stars. I wouldn't be surprised if that's part of the reason the final Medarot game on GBA never left Japan, as it was a remake of the first Medarot game that didn't have direct links with the anime. Though, the GBA's life ending, and the solid but not spectacular performance of the previous western GBA releases didn't help.

But all of that's in the past.

As for Nintendo competition, realistically Medarot was never a threat to Pokemon nor are the games similar to Custom Robo outside of a very superficial "These are games with robots that you can customize" level.
 
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