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[Mockingbird]

Prime 1 is the BEST selling Metroid game and Prime 3 sold better than Prime 2.

I think a big turn off for people is the Dark World -- you constantly get your health drained. When I learned of that it made me not want to bother with the game.

 

[KarmaCow]

Don't you mean it is mechanically the exact same thing as getting a powerup in a room after a boss fight with the difference only existing in people's minds?

Just the concept is the same but the implementation is not in Other M. One is doled out by the game the other is found by the player. The grapple beam in Other M is tied to a specific story moment, so you can't get it until you have progressed far enough into the story. In Metroid Prime, even though it was designed to have one single path of progression, you can get the grapple beam early.

 

[Boney]

Ehh when the situations get critical the new items are needed, regardless if there's a breather in between, Grade 3 danger or whatever is already a posibility.

Regarding defensive items such as the Varia Suit, there wasn't any danger involved because she was just passing through very quickly, she was never meant to stay long in the area, so Varia Suit was not needed (needed being the keyword). When she had to stay and fight the Lava monster the suit was required.

And in the end it's a military logic involving restraining your troops and having order over everything. I'd say the "You don't move nor fire unless I say so" is pretty natural in terms of military type stuff, there's just a range of command and bureaucracy involved.

I don't know, as I said earlier, some power ups were anticlimatic, especially the ones in the beggining, but some were great. Activating the Gravity suit as the Space Station was falling apart was great. So was activating both the Super Missiles and the Plasma Beam just for Ridley.

The only minor gripe is that U-Mos could have given you the light suit from the beginning, but is really minor compared to something like Other M.

Wasn't the light suit locked? And needed some energy source? If not it's pretty much the same thing.

 

[Brainiac 8]

Meh, they didn't want to arbitrarily have Samus lose all her stuff and have to randomly refind it again. They tried something new, some are ok with it, some aren't. It'll be different next time.

Personally me, I didn't hate it. It seemed to me like she was following Adam's orders out of respect for him and their past together.

I am ok with this, as it finally gave samus some character while still allowing her to be awesome and blow stuff up.

 

[Sennorin]

I don't know, as I said earlier, some power ups were anticlimatic, especially the ones in the beggining, but some were great. Activating the Gravity suit as the Space Station was falling apart was great. So was activating both the Super Missiles and the Plasma Beam just for Ridley.

Thanks for reminding me of that. Yes, even though some authorizations felt stupid, some felt truly badass due to the circumstances.

In the end, I prefer the authorization over the silly random findings on alien planets. But I cannot think of a truly good alternative to both. Introducing some shop-system would be totally worse.

 

[XenoRaven]

Ehh when the situations get critical the new items are needed, regardless if there's a breather in between, Grade 3 danger or whatever is already a posibility.

Regarding defensive items such as the Varia Suit, there wasn't any danger involved because she was just passing through very quickly, she was never meant to stay long in the area, so Varia Suit was not needed (needed being the keyword). When she had to stay and fight the Lava monster the suit was required.

And in the end it's a military logic involving restraining your troops and having order over everything. I'd say the "You don't move nor fire unless I say so" is pretty natural in terms of military type stuff, there's just a range of command and bureaucracy involved.

I don't know, as I said earlier, some power ups were anticlimatic, especially the ones in the beggining, but some were great. Activating the Gravity suit as the Space Station was falling apart was great. So was activating both the Super Missiles and the Plasma Beam just for Ridley.


Wasn't the light suit locked? And needed some energy source? If not it's pretty much the same thing.

They don't tell you to go anywhere in a combat zone without your body armor in the military. Even if you're just "passing through."

Also, I think the energy controllers needed to be powered up fully to create the light suit. Even if not, I'm not 100% sure I'd give up my best weapon to some stranger unless they proved they were there to help me and they would need it to save my planet. So I'd say getting that at the end makes more sense from a story perspective.

 

[KevinCow]

On the topic of Echoes selling worse than Prime, I always figured it was because a lot of people blindly bought Prime expecting it to be the Gamecube's Halo. Instead, they got something completely different, hence a lot of the complaints about the game back then:

"Where's the multiplayer?"
"WTF respawning enemies?"
"Crappy controls, needs dual analog!"
"Where are the vehicles?"
"Where do I go???"

So they didn't buy the sequel. This also explains why you can find so many used copies of the game.

I'm sure there were other factors, but I'm sure this was a pretty big one.

The only minor gripe is that U-Mos could have given you the light suit from the beginning, but is really minor compared to something like Other M.

Wasn't the light suit created or unlocked by having all three light beam things activated? You get the last one, the thing in U-Mos's room opens up, and the light suit is inside. At least that's what I always figured.

 

[Boney]

They don't tell you to go anywhere in a combat zone without your body armor in the military. Even if you're just "passing through."

Also, I think the energy controllers needed to be powered up fully to create the light suit. Even if not, I'm not 100% sure I'd give up my best weapon to some stranger unless they proved they were there to help me and they would need it to save my planet. So I'd say getting that at the end makes more sense from a story perspective.

Well I'd say she does have a pretty good body armor already.

But in the end it was a nice excuse to have her running on a high heat zone, but most people were already crying foul on the system and Samus that this was the tip of the iceberg.

 

[mantidor]

Wasn't the light suit locked? And needed some energy source? If not it's pretty much the same thing.

Oh I think you are right. I hope any next Metroid game does the same, they've recycled Super's items and progression over and over again, they should just invent new powerups and suits, it will give the games more variety.

 

[Kontergurke]

Actually, there is an easy solution for new metroid games as far as item progression goes:

You start with nothing and pick them up as you play.

Why don't you have your old items? Doesn't matter! (Didn't matter in Super Metroid!)

Story is soooo overrated. Just give a short blurb at the start ("Planet AB123 has been invaded by the other Metroid. Infiltrate Space Pirate base. Fight for true peace in Space!") and give me the damn game!


EDIT: If you sell it as a game, nobody cares about incosistencies. If you try to sell it as an epic story, you can bet your ass people will scrutinize it and mock you for plot holes.

 

[Sennorin]

Actually, there is an easy solution for new metroid games as far as item progression goes:

You start with nothing and pick them up as you play.

Why don't you have your old items? Doesn't matter! (Didn't matter in Super Metroid!)

Story is soooo overrated. Just give a short blurb at the start ("Planet AB123 has been invaded by the other Metroid. Infiltrate Space Pirate base. Fight for true peace in Space!") and give me the damn game!

I highly disagree. What bothered me most about Metroid Prime 1, was how a game that obviously did so well in immersing the player in this alien world that was Tallon IV, still had all those *gamey* light orbs lying around that gave you back health and missiles. As well as all those switches and routes that just happen to fit Samus´ equipment (yes, I know the explanation is that the Chozo were there before and built that, but it still felt silly to me). I´d love to get a Metroid-game that takes Prime 1 another step further in terms of creating an immersive game world, logically explaining *everything*, be it upgrades, refills or path progression.

 

[etiolate]

oh god why do i still have this thread in my subscriptions

I use it to keep track of posters that I should be wary of, should be wary the opinion of and to monitor posters which may be joke characters.

 

[WealthyGadabout]

Me? I miss scanning and reading up on the lore.

You'd never hear or read something like, "FANCY MEETING YOU HERE, PRINCESS!" in the Primes.

 

[Boney]

I use it to keep track of posters that I should be wary of, should be wary the opinion of and to monitor posters which may be joke characters.

how fucking condescending.

 

[Effect]

I got my GameCube rather late and when I got done with Metroid Prime I simply wasn't in the mood for more of the same at that moment. I'm also not that great with FPS with dual analog controls anyway so that Prime 2 was suppose to be a lot harder then Prime 1 made it an instant turn off. Prime 3 on the other hand was on a new system with a new control method, which is what I wanted when it came to FPS gameplay. The pointer controls alone made me pick up the game.

I would have bought the trilogy as well but I didn't have the extra money at the time and Nintendo stupidly made it a limited offering. I think that game would have had legs if they kept it in print and maybe just stop producing Metroid Prime 3 by itself and maybe lowered the price a bit. If it was ever reprinted I'd buy it but I'm not about to spend an insane amount of money to get a copy now.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

I highly disagree. What bothered me most about Metroid Prime 1, was how a game that obviously did so well in immersing the player in this alien world that was Tallon IV, still had all those *gamey* light orbs lying around that gave you back health and missiles.

Its a game. Its *gamey*. This is something that games do. It is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of, and I'm disappointed that someone is actually criticising a game for being too *gamey".

As well as all those switches and routes that just happen to fit Samus´ equipment (yes, I know the explanation is that the Chozo were there before and built that, but it still felt silly to me).

Your opinions are a strange beast. On the last page I explained how Samus gathering of upgrades on Chozo colonised planets makes perfect sense due to their perception of the future and worship of prophecy. Hell, Metroid: Zero Mission canonises the explanation with Samus backup suit being provided to her explicitly by the ancient Chozo for her prophesised moment of need. She passed their test, proved to the mural she was the figure of prophecy and recieved her suit.

You countered this by telling me my explanation wasn't worth considering.

I tell you again Sennorin that in the logic, lore, story and tradition of all the games, the following explanation is sound: The Chozo shared Samus' abilities and thus it makes perfect sense for their structures, from SR-388's laboratory through to the Talon Crater, to be navigable by her. You call this logic "silly" but do not explain at any point why.

I´d love to get a Metroid-game that takes Prime 1 another step further in terms of creating an immersive game world, logically explaining *everything*, be it upgrades, refills or path progression.

Yeah, while they're at it they should do the same with Zelda, and show all of the ruppees being placed in the grass for convoluted story reasons complete with cutscenes, and the pieces of heart should be literally explained - why is there a quarter of a flesh-pumping organ in a glass container in the belly of a boss? They should show the surgery in which Ganondorf inserts the containers into the beasts for convoluted reasons that require explanation.

Hopefully they'll also explain the internal mechanics of the Ocarina, and give a scientific explanation based on current theories as to how it can alter perception of space time.

Oh wait.

It shouldn't.

 

[Kontergurke]

I highly disagree. What bothered me most about Metroid Prime 1, was how a game that obviously did so well in immersing the player in this alien world that was Tallon IV, still had all those *gamey* light orbs lying around that gave you back health and missiles. As well as all those switches and routes that just happen to fit Samus´ equipment (yes, I know the explanation is that the Chozo were there before and built that, but it still felt silly to me). I´d love to get a Metroid-game that takes Prime 1 another step further in terms of creating an immersive game world, logically explaining *everything*, be it upgrades, refills or path progression.

Well, thinking back to when I first played the Prime games, I remember thinking the same thing about the "morph-ball"-sized devices and Spider-Ball labyrinth tracks being a bit out of place. The energy pick-ups didn't bother me, though.

I'm not sure it's the best way to try to explain everything in a game. There will always be "gamey stuff" that you just have to accept. Respawning enemies when revisiting rooms, save points, why Bosses sit in their boss rooms all the time and wait for only the player to show up.

A more realistic game does not necessarily make a better game.
I guess we have to draw the line somewhere regarding the suspension of disbelief.

 

[Muffdraul]

Actually, there is an easy solution for new metroid games as far as item progression goes:

You start with nothing and pick them up as you play.

Why don't you have your old items? Doesn't matter! (Didn't matter in Super Metroid!)

I so, so, SO agree with you. To me it's not really Metroid if you don't go back to square zero at the beginning and have to regain all of the abilities. Finding that stuff releases endorphins in my brain. Already having them is bullshit as far as I'm concerned. I couldn't give less of a shit about them "justifying" it in the story or whatever. Kinda disgusts me that they gave into the whining crybaby pussies when designing in recent Metroids.

 

[Sennorin]

Its a game. Its *gamey*.

We will have to disagree then. There´s many examples of modern games that implemented previously *gamey* elements into the game world in such ways as to have it be logically explained. See Halo and regenerating health, or, to stay within the Metroid-franchise, the double jump. I´m a fan of naturally fitting game design, rather than obtrusive, explicit *gamey* design, that, of course, works fine, too, but clashes when your goal as a developer is to immerse the player. The more *gamey* elements, the less immersion.

 

[Metroid Killer]

and the pieces of heart should be literally explained - why is there a quarter of a flesh-pumping organ in a glass container in the belly of a boss? They should show the surgery in which Ganondorf inserts the containers into the beasts for convoluted reasons that require explanation.

 

[Kontergurke]

Well, with Zelda games, everything could easily be explained by: A wizard did it

@Sennorin: I understand what you mean. And I think a game that can explain absolutely everything that happens in such a way that it would be totally believeable, yet doesn't overwhelm you with it through endless exposition AND still manages to be a fun game would be a great acomplishment. I guess no one would argue against that.

The thing is, do you think Sakamoto (or most game designers) can make that happen?

 

[XenoRaven]

It is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of, and I'm disappointed that someone is actually criticising a game for being too *gamey".

Unfortunately this is our future, and in many ways our present. I don't know when it happened, but "shoot aliens" or "slice up the bad guys" isn't enough of a story to build a game on anymore, even though this is the story of most of the best games of all time.

 

[Kid Ying]

Seems to me that a lot of complaints are directed to the autorization. I'm with the same opinion as Sennorin. To me, it wasn't a big deal, wasn't even a deal. It was just an excuse, stupid, just like all the others excuses for a character losing his powers every game.

I remember seeing some articles about sexism and stuff, so i guess it wasn't a good way to nerf Samus, i hope Sakamoto fixes that up in M:OM 2. hehehe.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

i hope Sakamoto fixes that up in M:OM 2. hehehe.

I'm pretty sure he was quoted as saying he wouldn't change a thing about Other M.

So we're screwed.

 

[daedalius]

Pretty sure if the next metroid game has the same guy in charge that did Other M, won't be buying; also will be the first metroid game to go unpurchased.

 

[Sennorin]

The thing is, do you think Sakamoto (or most game designers) can make that happen?

I´d say we cannot conclude that with either yes or no, yet. We´d have to see another Sakamoto-Metroid to see what his vision for Metroid is, in terms of gameplay. Of course, I could see RetroStudios achieve a truly logical, immersive Metroid-game, too. I like both styles of games

 

[ScionOfTheRisingSun]

Just the concept is the same but the implementation is not in Other M. One is doled out by the game the other is found by the player. The grapple beam in Other M is tied to a specific story moment, so you can't get it until you have progressed far enough into the story. In Metroid Prime, even though it was designed to have one single path of progression, you can get the grapple beam early.

Then your problem is really about Other M being linear, which is an actual gameplay design choice which makes sense to fuss about and discuss instead of launching the discussion bravely into the realm of absurdity by projecting it on wither you get an item by walking over it or through a cutscene.

 

[Magicpaint]

I will never understand how someone can like Other M more than any Prime game. Even if you accept its linearity (as I did with Fusion and had a blast), it's still not a very well crafted game.

 

[Boney]

I'm pretty sure he was quoted as saying he wouldn't change a thing about Other M.

So we're screwed.

That's a pretty weird way of looking at it. Pre release interviews. Are you happy with how Other M turned out to be?

Yes, everything worked well blah blah blah blah. Just PR talk.

Doesn't mean shit.

I will never understand how someone can like Other M more than any Prime game. Even if you accept its linearity (as I did with Fusion and had a blast), it's still not a very well crafted game.

I completely accept it's very rough on the edges, whereas Prime is polished as hell. But they're very different games with very different strengths. And Other M's strengths are just amazing to me.

How can somebody like DOA more than SF! Well some people might prefer 3d fighters idk. It's pretty intolerant thing to say coming from you.

 

[Sennorin]

I will never understand how someone can like Other M more than any Prime game. Even if you accept its linearity (as I did with Fusion and had a blast), it's still not a very well crafted game.

And I will never understand how some people have to paint their opinions as facts. The reason why I liked Other M was *exactly* because of how well-crafted it was. Character movement felt great, shooting felt great, jumping felt great. If there´s one aspect of Other M you cannot criticize with a straight face, it´s how well-crafted it was.

 

[KevinCow]

I tell you again Sennorin that in the logic, lore, story and tradition of all the games, the following explanation is sound: The Chozo shared Samus' abilities and thus it makes perfect sense for their structures, from SR-388's laboratory through to the Talon Crater, to be navigable by her. You call this logic "silly" but do not explain at any point why.

It makes some sense when she's exploring Chozo colonies like Zebes, SR388, or Tallon IV, but it can get a bit silly when you're exploring a Space Pirate base and they have switches everywhere that just happen to require 1 meter metal spheres to activate. Why is that the only way to open this door, or lower this bridge, or aim this laser turret? Then you read logs wondering how Samus keeps infiltrating their bases, yet, TUUUUUUUUUBES.jpg.

I don't think it ruins the games, but you have to admit it can be a bit silly. I just like to chalk it up to Space Pirates being amusingly incompetent.

 

[ScionOfTheRisingSun]

Unfortunately this is our future, and in many ways our present. I don't know when it happened, but "shoot aliens" or "slice up the bad guys" isn't enough of a story to build a game on anymore, even though this is the story of most of the best games of all time.

It always has and always will be enough for me. People who come into this medium with storytelling agendas can jump on a sharp stick.

Oh, you have a story to tell me mate? Well, pardon but I have a game to play you mongoloid twat.

 

[Magicpaint]

And I will never understand how some people have to paint their opinions as facts. The reason why I liked Other M was *exactly* because of how well-crafted it was. Character movement felt great, shooting felt great, jumping felt great. If there´s one aspect of Other M you cannot criticize with a straight face, it´s how well-crafted it was.

Automated shooting can feel great, sure, if you like your combat reduced to mindless button mashing. Jumping? There wasn't any meaningful platforming like there usually is, and the camera angle is awful with the dead zones and poor feeling of depth. My problems with the game start from the very basic things. Moving with a D-Pad in a semi-3D space doesn't even give the feeling of a well thought out control scheme and don't even get me started on the first person mechanic.

I completely accept it's very rough on the edges, whereas Prime is polished as hell. But they're very different games with very different strengths. And Other M's strengths are just amazing to me.

How can somebody like DOA more than SF! Well some people might prefer 3d fighters idk. It's pretty intolerant thing to say coming from you.

Haha, well I guess the problem is that I don't see any strengths whatsoever about Other M. Hence why it boggles my mind.

 

[Boney]

And I will never understand how some people have to paint their opinions as facts. The reason why I liked Other M was *exactly* because of how well-crafted it was. Character movement felt great, shooting felt great, jumping felt great. If there´s one aspect of Other M you cannot criticize with a straight face, it´s how well-crafted it was.

It had a troubled development process and many things had to be dropped. What you said was indeed well crafted but then there's other things like Waldo sequences, and the behind the should explorations. They probably amassed to being more but in the end they were half assed and shoe horned.

Those along with the first hour of the game are my biggest problems with it, but I absolutely love it.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

That's a pretty weird way of looking at it. Pre release interviews. Are you happy with how Other M turned out to be?

Was it in a pre-release interview? I thought it was in response to critics.

Also, again, I LIKE Other M! I just don't LOVE it like I do the Primes.

 

[etiolate]

We will have to disagree then. There´s many examples of modern games that implemented previously *gamey* elements into the game world in such ways as to have it be logically explained. See Halo and regenerating health, or, to stay within the Metroid-franchise, the double jump. I´m a fan of naturally fitting game design, rather than obtrusive, explicit *gamey* design, that, of course, works fine, too, but clashes when your goal as a developer is to immerse the player. The more *gamey* elements, the less immersion.

Here's the thing: Authorization feels more out of place because it slaps the player in the face with the reality that this is a game and you can't use your abilities because a game designer said so.

By spreading the abilities out into the game world, the player has the same issue of missing abilities, but the obstruction to getting these abilities is an obstruction that they can surpass. Since the player knows that they can recover these abilities and attain them for themselves then the natural sync between player and game is retained. Since the game world has the item and the player can retrieve the item by their own will then there is more of an agreement between the two sides. Yet when the player is told they have the item and some NPC says you can't use it, and the player can't simply forego that command, the will of the player is removed and there is instead of there being an agreement between game and player, there is a conflict. The NPC never says "if you do this then you can use it" or "if you go here then its ok". The player is left in the dark and unable to use something they know they have. There are no rules set down to agree upon, and in the case of Other M, whatever rules or reasoning the game gives are then not consistently held up.

If you include the sense of progression in abilities to sense of progression of plot then the old way works much better as well.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

And I will never understand how some people have to paint their opinions as facts. The reason why I liked Other M was *exactly* because of how well-crafted it was. Character movement felt great, shooting felt great, jumping felt great. If there´s one aspect of Other M you cannot criticize with a straight face, it´s how well-crafted it was.

Sense dodge felt cheap. Switching to first person was clunky. Where's Waldo was infuriating.

I have a straight face.

 

[Metroid Killer]

Pretty sure if the next metroid game has the same guy in charge that did Other M, won't be buying; also will be the first metroid game to go unpurchased.

Oh come on, at least wait till we get a glimse on how the next game is gonna be before making such comments.

It's pretty much guaranteed that Hosokawa will direct the next game while Sakamoto will be the producer. Hosokawa has been with the franchise from pretty much the beginning and even if you didn't like Other M, he showed that he was capable at directing a great Metroid game with Fusion.


In anyway, I doubt we will see Team Ninja on board for the next game. I guess there's a chance we will see the Other M engine being put to use if the next Metroid will be produced by Sakamoto, but it's tough to tell with the generation jump and all. I'm pretty sure they aren't just gonna release an Other M 2 considered how bad the game sold.

 

[Relix]

And I will never understand how some people have to paint their opinions as facts. The reason why I liked Other M was *exactly* because of how well-crafted it was. Character movement felt great, shooting felt great, jumping felt great. If there´s one aspect of Other M you cannot criticize with a straight face, it´s how well-crafted it was.

What the fu-

 

[electroshockwave]

And I will never understand how some people have to paint their opinions as facts.

If there´s one aspect of Other M you cannot criticize with a straight face, it´s how well-crafted it was.

...

 

[daedalius]

Oh come on, at least wait till we get a glimse on how the next game is gonna be before making such comments.

Alright, if it looks like one of the Primes, or a new side-scroller, I'm on board.

If it looks anything like the garbage that Other M was, well, I'll be playing the old ones to get my metroid fix.

Also, is someone really defending having your abilities unlocked by a self-righteous asshole for the entire game?

 

[etiolate]

I hold a suspicion that Nintendo left Other M up to Sakamoto with no guiding hand as a way of leaving a proud developer to hang himself or prove himself on his own.

 

[Boney]

Automated shooting can feel great, sure, if you like your combat reduced to mindless button mashing. Jumping? There wasn't any meaningful platforming like there usually is, and the camera angle is awful with the dead zones and poor feeling of depth. My problems with the game start from the very basic things. Moving with a D-Pad in a semi-3D space doesn't even give the feeling of a well thought out control scheme and don't even get me started on the first person mechanic.

And I disagree with every of this assesments other than platforming part. Combat was simple, consisting of few mechanics, but it was accesible and swift. Knowing when to stop shooting and start charging to get a full dodge, knowing when to use the missiles and how to get an easy Lethal Strike felt great, completely in sync was amazing, felt just as good as dodging and holding combos during Bayonetta to me. Combat is hard to talk about in this game, because it never explains itself, but most of the footage I've seen is from people playing the game in a very safe and boring manner. My brother did the same, I explained the fundamentals and too had a 180º.

Platforming was simple but it added variety and worked well. Moving through the environment worked well. I thought it was well meassured.

Camara and D-pad movement worked amazingly together, between following room curvatures. Every room was designed to following straight lines while mantaining at the same time depth and room to move.

And first person worked great for me but it's also hard to objectivise it. It's impossible to see how it'll affect every person regarding position and preposition to do it. But the slow motion effect and the power they punched worked great in conjuction with the other mechanics especially the dodging.

I hold a suspicion that Nintendo left Other M up to Sakamoto with no guiding hand as a way of leaving a proud developer to hang himself or prove himself on his own.

Working with an outside development team probably had to do with it. It was a very different development process, and even though both parties brought much to the table, there probably were plenty of communication problems, you just have to read between Kitaura comments on stuff. Which is weird considering the awesome job they can get to have from other partners like Next Level Games.

 

[Metroid Killer]

^nonsense etiolate... stick to explaining game progression and narrative in games please

Except for the collaboration with Team Ninja and Hayashi's influence as co-director and lot of the same key people from Fusion worked on Other M. There were as much 'guidiance' from Nintendo as usual.

Alright, if it looks like one of the Primes, or a new side-scroller, I'm on board.

Well considering how close Other M actually was at being a side-scroller we may be in for a treat for the next game if we are lucky.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

I hold a suspicion that Nintendo left Other M up to Sakamoto with no guiding hand as a way of leaving a proud developer to hang himself or prove himself on his own.

 

[Magicpaint]

And I disagree with every of this assesments other than platforming part. Combat was simple, consisting of few mechanics, but it was accesible and swift. Knowing when to stop shooting and start charging to get a full dodge, knowing when to use the missiles and how to get an easy Lethal Strike felt great, completely in sync was amazing, felt just as good as dodging and holding combos during Bayonetta to me. Combat is hard to talk about in this game, because it never explains itself, but most of the footage I've seen is from people playing the game in a very safe and boring manner. My brother did the same, I explained the fundamentals and too had a 180º.

Sounds to me like you're having to create your own fun. Bayonetta at its core was already fun because the mechanics were sound in the first place, so timing and creating combos, pulling off the finishing combos, wicked weave, triggering bullet time etc. felt satisfying. In Metroid Other M, there's a certain randomness to the whole thing. I breezed through easily in the game with mindless button mashing (i.e. both sense dodge and shoot/charge) because the mechanics were broken enough to allow me do so. I can't do that in Bayonetta.

The others, I can't tell you you're wrong really, but hopefully yeah we can agree that people are at least very well divided on those counts.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

I breezed through easily in the game with mindless button mashing (i.e. both sense dodge and shoot/charge) because the mechanics were broken enough to allow me do so.

Ding ding ding!

 

[Boney]

Also, is someone really defending having your abilities unlocked by a self-righteous asshole for the entire game?

I did and I explained why. It has some redeeming aspects to it, even though collecting the items can work better most of the times. It still allows for some cool set pieces as I explained above.

And while I'm not particularily fond of Adam in this game, why is he a self righteous asshole again?

Sounds to me like you're having to create your own fun. Bayonetta at its core was already fun because the mechanics were sound in the first place, so timing and creating combos, pulling off the finishing combos, wicked weave, triggering bullet time etc. felt satisfying. In Metroid Other M, there's a certain randomness to the whole thing. I breezed through easily in the game with mindless button mashing (i.e. both sense dodge and shoot/charge) because the mechanics were broken enough to allow me do so. I can't do that in Bayonetta.

The others, I can't tell you you're wrong really, but hopefully yeah we can agree that people are at least very well divided on those counts.

Yeah I have no problems with it being divisive, but at least I hope you can see from where I'm coming from.

But what I mean is in MOM, it allows for multiple skill levels to take the game. An enemy can take like 30 seconds if your dodging and shooting, but if you know what you're doing you'll take it down in just 6 to 10 seconds. I really value this take instead of having just different difficulty levels to choose.

 

[daedalius]

Well considering how close Other M actually was at being a side-scroller we may be in for a treat for the next game if we are lucky.

I didn't really find it to be as close to a side-scroller as it should have been, more like a neutered ninja gaiden with voice acting so horrendous it actually rivaled ninja gaiden in that; something which I didn't think was possible.

The vibe I got from Adam for the entire game was that he was a self-righteous asshole, so in my opinion, I label him as such.

 

[Boney]

I didn't really find it to be as close to a side-scroller as it should have been, more like a neutered ninja gaiden with voice acting so horrendous it actually rivaled ninja gaiden in that; something which I didn't think was possible.

The vibe I got from Adam for the entire game was that he was a self-righteous asshole, so in my opinion, I label him as such.

What he means is that the project started as a strictly 2d before becoming this 2d/3d hybrid. Which I thought was not only great, but also a monumental landmark in game design. Not many agree though hehehehe