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Metroid Prime Trilogy WiiU |OT| - Samus it Ever Was. Now with Ridleyculous low price!

mstevens

Member
Started to panic during the Alpha Blogg fight in MP2. I hadn't saved in a long time and I didn't know a boss was coming up. Couldn't get the timing down at first. Luckily I figured it out and made it to a save point before I died...
 

Astral Dog

Member
New Nintendo handheld, enough n3DS.
seriously Metroid Prime on new Nintendo handheld or Wii U, 3DS just doesn't fit for certain games.
 
Beat the first Metroid Prime for the first time thanks to this. Man, I just love these controls. However, my brain can't wrap itself around visor-select mode and beam-select mode. I keep selecting the wrong one every dam time!

I think it's because it takes quite some time to get yout first new beam. By then, my brain is so hardwired on opening the scan-visor that I just keep going for it on instinct, even though I just want to select a new beam. Grrr.

I beat MP3 a few months back on Wii so all that's left now is MP2, which I never played before. I hear it's very hard and you have to do it in one sitting because the map is confusing otheriwse? I'm not sure I have the time for it...
 
Beat the first Metroid Prime for the first time thanks to this. Man, I just love these controls. However, my brain can't wrap itself around visor-select mode and beam-select mode. I keep selecting the wrong one every dam time!

I think it's because it takes quite some time to get yout first new beam. By then, my brain is so hardwired on opening the scan-visor that I just keep going for it on instinct, even though I just want to select a new beam. Grrr.

I beat MP3 a few months back on Wii so all that's left now is MP2, which I never played before. I hear it's very hard and you have to do it in one sitting because the map is confusing otheriwse? I'm not sure I have the time for it...
In one sitting? No way, that's nuts. Take your time, my friend. Just don't leave it too long in between play sessions and don't start some other epic game at the same time.
 

dLMN8R

Member
You definitely don't need to do MP2 in one sitting or anything like it. The map is indeed sprawling (and there's the dark world too in addition to the light world), but just like any Metroid game you just learn it over time.
 

mstevens

Member
Spider Guardian just about gave me a nervous breakdown lol. I can't handle trying to do precise movements with the morph ball under pressure, especially trying to not overshoot/undershoot on those last two ramps to get to those charging stations.
 

Verger

Banned
Even though I love Bryyo, the game (Corruption) really opens up more when you get to Elysia and the level design feels more complex. Bryyo's level design admittedly is nothing special and is pretty straightforward and basic the majority of the time you spend on the planet through the game. Elysia however feels more like the Retro that we know and love working their magic and creating a timeless level.

I really love all the tiny details in Elysia too. Those little tiny maintenance and repair bots that move around their own way not paying you much attention, as well as all the tiny machinery and gearworks that are functioning. One part I love is when you get to that one Pod which seems like it is malfunctioning or in disrepair because it shakes a lot and the sound effects are ace, I kept worrying it was going to fall out of the sky at one point.
 

Christine

Member
Elysia is really damn good. It's all pre-fab in consistent dimensions with repetitive, symmetric structures, and a lot of people think that it looks the same everywhere. If you pay attention and have a good memory, however, you'll instantly be able to orient yourself inside the shape of the decay that time and phazon have grown over the triumphantly melancholy steam punk aesthetic.
 
One thing that I noticed when playing Prime 3 again was just how action-centric the beginning was. Not just the federation ship but Bryyo as well. Nearly every section of Bryyo that you can access has many monsters and small areas, encouraging and almost forcing combat. On top of that, many of the enemies require much more effort to dispatch than the other games with a number of Pirate squads, stronger normal enemies like Warp Hounds, and mini-bosses.

Frankly I found it to be pretty obnoxious for a beginning area. The tipped ratio of "action" rooms to "set-piece" rooms, especially on the initial visit was very noticeable.

Compare that to Elysia where the spectacle of the location was the forefront of the experience. There was calm, peacefulness, and scale. As the map expanded the classic sense of eerie emptiness began to set in only to become unease as you see ghostly glimpses of the Steamlord just barely out of view and the dozens of video displays all showing
Ghor
scowling at you.

It's like these two planets were handled by completely different teams. Bryyo got better when you could explore further with new items but that initial trip until you destroyed the seed was rough, imo. Doesn't help that Mogenar is my most hated boss of all three games. I think the game would've been much better served if Elysia was the first planet. It also would've made more sense plotwise to visit that one first considering the Aurora Unit there that needed to be treated.
 

Azure J

Member
Man, that final boss fight in MP2 (
dark samus
) is some serious BS.
- No ammo replenish after the previous boss fight
- no way to save, so you have to do the 10 minutes long previous battle again
- freaking 8 minutes timer
- knowing that, as screw attack keeps bouncing off on the room after the Ing King fight, you'll already loose 1 or 2 minutes of that
- And Dark Samus is invunerable 99 % of the time. Which is pretty annoying when you only have 6 minutes to beat her, and no more ammo to do some serious damage

Way to leave a bad impression after a great game.

- Blow open the Ing Caches (the weird alien worm spheres) dotted along the walkway around the area where the Sky Temple save station is [its in the room right before the tall screw attack surfaces]
- The game autosaves at the point where the
- 8 minutes is plenty of time, the fight isn't really hard unless you don't scan/learn how to deal with her
- Just drop down the shaft. You don't need to use the screw attack to descend at all
- The only times you get to do any damage with your base weaponry, you don't do even a third of the amount of damage you could with the specific method to defeat her

I dunno how much of a help this is post mortem, but that fight never struck me as something terribly difficult. Maybe a bit tense the first few times yeah, but that was the goal. If anything,
Dark Samus 3/4 is very easily cheesed if you know how to abuse her RNG in between the times where she'll land and play cat and mouse quickly and when she decides that she's going to camp in the air spamming Phazon blasts.
 
Started corruption on sunday.
I had beaten it three times before I think (normal/veteran/hypermode) on the wii.

I didn't remember hypermode was so broken. Especially when you know how to exploit it.

Rundas
was a fucking cakewalk holy shit. Fight took one minute.
 

dLMN8R

Member
Ok, first impressions of Metroid Prime 3 are.....not good.

Not good at all.


Nearly an hour in, and I feel like I'm playing an amateurish knock-off of the first Halo game. Poor voice acting, animations, overwraught story. Worse scanning mechanics than Echoes, funneled down a linear path for far longer than MP1 or 2, and a complete lack of the feeling of isolation or adventure.

I've started one of the generators. Please tell me I'm almost done with this BS intro?
 
After the second generator shit happens, and then the real game starts

Yeah the intro is way too long, the game gets good after you get the first "suit upgrade".
 

Dragonflame323

Neo Member
I made it to Phazon Mines in the first game. it feels like I'm nearing the end of it and yet last I checked my item percentage was like 36 or something.. it's been a great ride so far.
 
I enjoyed the intro. It felt epic. ):
Meh, it looks kinda crap and the pacing is bad
I made it to Phazon Mines in the first game. it feels like I'm nearing the end of it and yet last I checked my item percentage was like 36 or something.. it's been a great ride so far.

Try to uncover the full map for more easy upgrades. They're not very hard to find in prime

edit :
beat
mogenar
fuck regenerating enemies. also his stomp destroyed my health and I lost my first try.. geez
 
He would be fine if :
He didn't cover his balls 60% of the time
He didn't move so fucking much making aiming tedious
He didn't heal these fucking balls
The ball in his back wasn't a pain in the ass to hit

Yeah.. that's a lot of ifs
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, Prime 3's intro is bad. Doing a 100% run to finish out Trilogy on veteran.

Fortunately it kind of lets you go after it's over, but you still have the irritating AU constantly talking to you. Didn't think about it until now, but it seems like most of the AU comments are built into the hint system. If you turn hints off, does it shut up?

Saved right before Mogenar. Kind of dreading fighting it considering I remember hating it, and the comments here kind of go along with that.

Also, I really hate the hypermode mechanic. Speaking of which, I think I died from a glitch with hypermode earlier. A pirate threw one of those phazon grenade things and I was sent into hypermode overload like normal, but then I died in like two seconds. And it was right after I got off the ship so I had full HP.
 

Verger

Banned
Mogenar is the worst boss in the series.
It's pretty bad, but I'd still give this title to the Alpha Blogg, just because timing the shots to its mouth almost felt like guesswork and luck.

Moegnar is definitely difficult using the free-hand aiming controls that were introduced in Corruption and the boss almost feels like it was more designed to be like a Prime 1 and 2 boss with lock-on non-free aim would be necessary.

Agreed that Bryyo felt like it was either "streamlined" or even "unfinished". Like I said the level design is pretty simplistic without much complexity at all and you pretty much go in a linear path through most of your time there. In addition the flying between landing zones felt like it was overused. Which is too bad because I love the Lore and setting of the planet and feel like it could have been explored further.

I'm also perhaps in the minority in wishing to have learned more about the other hunters. They really do not have much screen time at all and I would have liked to get to know them a little bit more
before they got Corrupted. Or would have wanted to see a more natural progression to their corruption as opposed to just finding them already being evil.

As for the Hunters, I always felt that
Rundas' actions seemed inconsistent with the other two while corrupted. He got rid of the Space Pirates that were surrounding you, then fought without saying a word. Contrast that to Ghor who became a huge dick, and Gandrayda who we always knew was a bitch. I kind of wish the latter would have ended up being corrupted on her own volition
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
I think what you mention about Bryyo is why I didn't really like the ship and multiple planets. Elysia has been better, though it is still very linear until you get the cannons unlocked for different routes.

I think the ship could be used better, it makes more sense within the game world than the elevators. I'd like them to go back to a single big planet in a new game and use both the ship and elevators (or similar transport), bringing back all the interconnectivity from the first two games.
 

Verger

Banned
I think Multiple Planets can work if they are sufficiently "big" enough. I don't think there'd be any complaints about planets with as large a footprint as even 50% of what Tallon and Aether were. The problem with how Corruption handled this was that in addition to different planets they also "divided" the planets up into segments as well, and while they eventually got "interconnected" when you unlocked all the paths, the areas were still "designed" around having a much smaller footprint to work with than the previous games.

I do agree the ship mechanic should come back, but they should definitely streamline the process so that traveling from point A to point B shouldn't require actually entering the ship and manually using that control. (it should be instantly accessible from getting into the ship entrance).
 
After replaying all three. I can definetly say Metroid Prime 1 is the weakest of the three and super overrated

Don't get me wrong, by weakest doesn't mean bad because quite frank the game is still really good . But after replaying the triology I think people are blowing out of proportions how "Perfect" this game was. So here's my opinion.
Semi Spoilers

The Good

Music; Phendrana drift is probably better than all the other two's soundtracks together. Tallon Overwold 1 and 2 were just as great. Though as for the opening theme that's hard to choose which was better.

Lore: This game did really well telling a story without dialouge, some where even hilarious and kept the game very interesting

The Semi-openess; The game does have it's moment of exploration which is very much appreciated
Isolation: The game really makes you feel alone, no one's coming to help you.

The Bad

Boring Cliche theme's: Fire, Ice, Forest; The themes of metroid prime are just so run of the mill it doesn't wow, I've seen it maaaaany times before and is just a bore to look at. Prime 2 and epescially 3 definitely outclass it in level themes by offering something more original and dsitinct

Level Design; The level designs themselves were nothing to write home about either. It was pretty straight forward with maybe a curve or two. MP2 destroyed it in this department with it's labriyinth like level design's that were challenging and kept you wondering what was around the corner. Prime 3 might have been more linear but it always offered something interesting along the way to keep you interested and engaged.

The Ugly

Easy as hell; People say Prime 3 was easy, but I found 1 just as easy even on hypermode, I don't even know why. Died like three times only (Damn you Omega Pirate). Prime 2....oooooon the other hand. Even Prime 3 has its really hard moment on that last planet on hypermode.


Bosses; Worst bosses of the three. They were easy to beat, had terrible design's for example Omega Pirate was basically just a
giant elite pirate
. Thardus....j
ust a pile of rocks standing.
Metroid Prime 3 Ridley battles makes MP1's Ridley battle look like a playground fight
. And just a terrible final boss, I don't even.

Suit Upgrades; They felt more like samus got a paint job than actually upgrading and feeling baddass.
Gravity Suit was a decent upgrade but is only useful in one area and the phazon suit
...as cool as that paint job was it was only useful for that terrible final battle. Its the equivalent of the Dominion Rod from Twilight Princess.

The Suit upgrades in the other two prime not only had way better design's but actually made you feel more powerful, more protected, better feeling of empowerment.

I used to think Mp1 was the best of the three, but after replaying it a few times again, I finally see that it's just not as amazing as I thought, still really good but probably is helped more by being the first 3D metroid thus blowing mind's a hell lot easier than the other two.
 

dLMN8R

Member
Ok I'm getting into Prime 3 a bit now. That intro was still bullshit but the rest is coming along nicely....though way too linear for a Metroid game so far.

Just beat Mogenar. That was a bitch. Died once!



One question, and I'm just looking for a simple yes or no.

In many rooms there's this blobby stuff on the wall that doesn't show up in the scan visor as anything, but it's weird - shooting it causes the blobs to grow and move around. Is that stuff relevant to gameplay at all once I get later into the game? Or is it just visual decoration? If it is, I don't want to know what exactly it is, just curious if it's ever important.



One more question, about hypermode. I still can't figure out exactly how much it drains my health. Does it depend on how long I spend in it?
 

dLMN8R

Member
So if I enter then exit hypermode it doesn't drain anything, right?

What about when I enter corruption mode and I *need* to drain phazon otherwise I'll need to vent out - do each of those shots also use 4hp?
 
So if I enter then exit hypermode it doesn't drain anything, right?

Correct.

What about when I enter corruption mode and I *need* to drain phazon otherwise I'll need to vent out - do each of those shots also use 4hp?

I've never explicitly tested this, but I think it costs the remainder of that energy tank and no more, the rest being spontaneously generated by Samus's body (as opposed to being injected from your life reserves).
 

dLMN8R

Member
Correct.



I've never explicitly tested this, but I think it costs the remainder of that energy tank and no more, the rest being spontaneously generated by Samus's body (as opposed to being injected from your life reserves).

Cool, that's the main thing I should have asked - whether it's possible to drain *more* than an energy take in one bout of hypermode.
 

Xenoboy

Member
So I completed Prime a few weeks ago and forgot this thread existed.
It was my 1st time playing it, I only played half of Prime 3 before, so the experience was mostly new.
I thought the game was quite good, but it had a lot of things that irritated and dissapointed me.

- Those
Chozo ghosts
were annoying
- Bosses were a big letdown
-
Final bosses were the worst thing ever. It just dragged on too much and having to switch from visor to visor constantly made it worse
- The plant puking enemy annoyed me
- The respawning enemies in Phazon mines after reentering places sucked

Other than that, it was mostly stellar. I can see why the game is a big deal. I also recently started Echoes and so far the intro has been more enjoyable. I also recently stopped in the Dark World for the 1st time.
 
Cool, that's the main thing I should have asked - whether it's possible to drain *more* than an energy take in one bout of hypermode.

Yeah that's how you exploit hypermode
Get in hypermode, shoot a bit until low ammo, then enter corrupted mode and shoot as long as you can, that's a lot of value for just one energy tank
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Yeah that's how you exploit hypermode
Get in hypermode, shoot a bit until low ammo, then enter corrupted mode and shoot as long as you can, that's a lot of value for just one energy tank

I thought you lost health the entire time you were in corrupted mode. I don't remember how fast though, so once you have several energy tanks it probably doesn't make much difference. I know I abused that a lot during my first playthrough years ago.
 

bone_and_sinew

breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
Someone please explain to me, exactly, how do I beat the final boss of Metroid Prime 2.

I can't shoot Dark Samus 4 with Phazon back like the scans say I should. I don't know how. I use the charge beam to try to suck in the particles she fires but it doesn't work.
 
Someone please explain to me, exactly, how do I beat the final boss of Metroid Prime 2.

I can't shoot Dark Samus 4 with Phazon back like the scans say I should. I don't know how. I use the charge beam to try to suck in the particles she fires but it doesn't work.

You can't absorb the big blasts since those are missiles, only the tiny ones that fly at you in a sort of upward arc. You want to charge your cannon and try to "catch" all those smaller, ember-like shots before shooting Dark Samus. It's actually easier to just stand still and let the game automatically change your view so you definitely do not want to have Lock-on Free Aim active.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPEykOoTNSg&t=04m10s
 
Echos.

I hate this game. Did they get rid of the hint system that tells you where to go after so long? Because I've been running around aimlessly for over an hour not knowing where to go. And then they throw in a bunch of physical barriers that don't even show up on the map, making it that much more difficult to navigate.

And this perpetual damage dark zone is pure annoying old-school game design 101.

Should I just go to Corruption?
 

dLMN8R

Member
Alright, just got the
hyper missiles
in corruption. This game is really growing on me after the abysmal intro. Decent amount of exploration, no asinine hidden areas on the critical path like echoes, neat new power ups.

But also too much recycling like now I'm just waiting to get the magnet ball. Yawn.

Still pretty cool though. Do I have new things coming up soon?
 

mstevens

Member
Just finished Prime 2. I enjoyed the first one in most areas, especially atmosphere and enemy design.

Emperor Ing is my least favorite boss so far.

How is corruption difficulty wise compared with the first two?
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Just finished Prime 2. I enjoyed the first one in most areas, especially atmosphere and enemy design.

Emperor Ing is my least favorite boss so far.

How is corruption difficulty wise compared with the first two?

More difficult than Prime 1. There are more challenging encounters through the game, unlike Prime 1 which really only had you fighting simple wildlife most of the game outside bosses and space pirate facilities. With good hypermode management it's probably a bit easier than Prime 2 though (with bad hypermode management it's probably harder).

I think the pace of a lot of the boss battles makes them more challenging on average than either of the other two games, but nothing is really more difficult than the hardest from Prime 2.
 

mstevens

Member
You know how I know these games are freaking incredible? Right after I finished the first game I thought, "I should take a break and play something else before 2". Ended up starting Echoes the next day.

Same thing just happened with Corruption. Just landed on Bryyo.
 

correojon

Member
Echos.

I hate this game. Did they get rid of the hint system that tells you where to go after so long? Because I've been running around aimlessly for over an hour not knowing where to go. And then they throw in a bunch of physical barriers that don't even show up on the map, making it that much more difficult to navigate.

And this perpetual damage dark zone is pure annoying old-school game design 101.

Should I just go to Corruption?

Echoes is much more complicated than Prime, but make an effort, you will forget about every nuance once you reach Sanctuary Fortress, it really is as good as everyone says. You´ll forget about the perpetual damage in Dark Aether once you get the suit upgrade (it doesn´t take long to get it).
 

dLMN8R

Member
Ok I finally
disabled the shield on the pirate homeworld to enable the federation to attack
. Holy shit are these cutscenes painful. Seriously the most amateurish bullshit I've ever seen, even worse than the first Halo.


Still though, I'm enjoying the game more than Prime 2. 1 is by far my favorite.
 

dLMN8R

Member
Beat Prime 3!


Eh....


1 >> 2 >>>>>>>>>>> 3

Wayyyyyy too linear. Way too little exploration. Totally cramped "worlds" that just didn't offer much at all interesting past your first visit (outside of a couple of critical moments to the sequence). I finished with 87% and had no interest in revisiting the areas just to collect the missing items. In Prime 1 and 2 I revisited areas and discovered completely new spaces simply because the game required me to.

But the three main worlds just seem so tiny compared to the massive sprawling areas of the first two games.

Like I described earlier:
I completely forgot how much this game exhibited my absolute favorite Metroid trait - this idea that you think you've explored an entire area, but you haven't even scratched the surface.

It's one thing when there's many doors you can't open, or obviously big areas you can't explore yet. But it's quite another when you think you've explored an entire level but it turns out there's 2-3x more of it left to go, and you don't discover it until hours later. Such as in
the tallon overworld with the ship and the chozo mines with the chozo ruins, hidden behind the Furnace.


Damn the level design is just unbelievable.

Then there's the awful cutscenes with terrible voice acting, it just doesn't fit the series at all.

It also commits the cardinal sin at the last area. I simply cannot believe you can't save the game after getting to Phaaze. FUCKING REALLY???? NOT AT ALL??? So I need to go through all of Phaaze fight through the huge caverns, fight three phases of a boss, all without turning off the system? Are you fucking kidding me? Awful, awful bullshit.


Having 3 phases of the final boss instead of 1 or 2 was just the poop icing on the disappointing cake. Ugh. So obnoxious.

Rereading my posts in this thread as I progressed from 1 to 2 to 3 is just depressing :-(
 

correojon

Member
I´ve finished Prime 2 weeks ago and Echoes last Sunday, some impressions:
  1. Both games are awesome.
  2. I feel I liked a bit more Echoes than Prime: the eery atmosphere since the
    attack of the reanimated marines at
    very beginning was great and really set the mood for the whole adventure. The plot was good in both, but in Echoes the story seemed to have more presence with the Dark Samus cameos and it really felt like you were progressing through it. That and Sanctuary Fortress give Echoes the edge over Prime in my eyes.
  3. I like the weapon system in Prime more than in Echoes.
  4. The Dark World in Echoes was supremely executed, I really dreaded going to it everytime. The use of portals for some puzzles was very intelligently done.
  5. Sanctuary Fortress is the best 3D level ever. If you are struggling through Echoes for whatever reason, don´t quit until you reach this level. I´ve made a purpose in my life to tell everyone I meet of the greatness of this level. It´s that good.
  6. The areas were more distinct in Prime, even though they are cliché (Forest/Fire/Ice). In Echoes everything felt dark and moody (except Sanctuary Fortress). I didn´t like that the Dark World looked the same no matter what area you were in.
  7. Some powerups are severely underused and should´ve left their place to something more enticing. Mainly the Triple Water Jump in Echoes which you just use in 2 rooms near where you get it and nowhere else. The visors felt underused too, specially the Echo Visor in Echoes and the Dark Visor in Prime (it´s cool the way they force you to use it for a whole level but after that it looses sense to have it hogging one visor slot). The Annihilator Beam in Echoes underperforms as the game´s best weapon.

I´m currently going through Corruption: I´ve just entered the Leviathan seed in Bryyo. I liked a lot the intro of the game, that space battle with pirate ships ramming into yours and the mission in the surface to stop the meteorite while there´s shit happening everywhere. But after that I was awaiting an open world and all I´ve got until now are linear passages which you are forced to go through time and time again. It´s true that somethings change from visit to visit, but still, the joy of Metroid is about discovering and forcing me to go through the exact same area 4 times in a row totally kills it. In Metroid games you backtrack to find something useful or just to explore, going from A->B->A->C->D->B, not to repeat the journey from A->B->A->B without having the chance to find anything new along the way. I also feel like it´s focused too much in combat and I am discovering very few secrets for the moment. I know I´m just at the beginning of the game, but it better start improving soon. Also, the constant communications and meetings with friends leave no place for the usual lonely Metroid mood.
 

Verger

Banned
I still love Corruption and am enjoying it greatly. Yeah the worlds are much smaller but the design is still top notch. I'm having a blast on Elysia exploring the place and Retro so nailed the look and aesthetics of this place and the audio.

Actually enjoyed the encounter and Boss battle with Ghor. I think in retrospect the battles against the Hunters were more fun than the Leviathan Guardians.

At the point where you finally get to Skytown East and really love how things become more ominous here. When you arrive you can see this Pod to the left in the background which looks like it has Phazon growing out of it and you know that things are going to go down there. I also love the structure of the Observatory and the Gearworks.

Once you finally get to the Pod and realize its the Xenoresearch Labs the Pirates were using man the game really shines. Metroid is definitely at its best when Samus is exploring a deserted or abandoned lab that's been overrun by some kind of creatures.

Although it still kills me that it really seems Retro really skimped out on Scanning in terms of just basic environment scans (non-Lore) stuff. There's so much I'd love to know about many of the environment props and its disappointing there are so few of those to really scan.
 

SparkTR

Member
So can the original games be completed with Free Aim, I know lock on is what it was designed for but will I hit roadblock with free aim on?
 

dLMN8R

Member
So can the original games be completed with Free Aim, I know lock on is what it was designed for but will I hit roadblock with free aim on?

The biggest problem I had in Prime 1 with free aim was the hornets - especially the first hornet swarm mini-boss. The way they spin around you was built around the idea of lock-on, and it's very difficult to accurately hit them without it. Especially since at that time you're probably still getting used to the controls.
 
So can the original games be completed with Free Aim, I know lock on is what it was designed for but will I hit roadblock with free aim on?
Some monsters/bosses are really fast, you probably don't want that
The biggest problem I had in Prime 1 with free aim was the hornets - especially the first hornet swarm mini-boss. The way they spin around you was built around the idea of lock-on, and it's very difficult to accurately hit them without it. Especially since at that time you're probably still getting used to the controls.
I beat them without lock-on, couldn't find a way to lock on them, I waited for them to stop then kill them during that time ;_;
 
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