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mgs4 scans - bosses shown
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Ninja Kn1ght
Member
Barkley's Justice said:
I'd say it's impossible to judge the quality of the voice acting from a few battle cries. The Raaaage stuff sounded pretty corny granted but we'll have to see more to really get an idea of the quality of the voice work. I'm sure it will be up to the series' usual high stanard.
Barkley's Justice
Member
Dante said:
the voice acting was fine? well, let's define "fine" then.
the last good voice acting i heard in a game was dead rising.
the voice acting in that mgs4 trailer sucked, sorry man. and the script for that trailer sucked too, but i wasnt expecting much from good old existential kojima. honestly, kojima should let oshii write this shit for him. or him and oshii can make a game together and like you'll think it was fun to play? but you just wont know whats going on. but you'll think it's smart and witty?
freethought
Member
Barkley's Justice said:
The delivery of Snake's last line was a little strange, but the line was obviously cut off, I happen to agree that Raven's dialogue was just annoying and fairly ill-advised, but I really do think your problem (well, one of them anyway) was with the script.
Sigint had the lions share of the dialogue, and personally I found the performance pretty damn good, and the rebel's dialogue sounded great. Of course if you want to declare the voice-acting in the entire trailer shit based on 3 lines of dialogue spoken by only one of the characters then of course that's entirely up to you.
The emotions were just transported badly, I have to agree with him there. That "rage" was the cheesiest thing I've heard in a game for a while, and I like the idea of the bosses. Why didn't they just make her scream like a maniac? That'd be some nice rage. Same with the others.Dante said:
It could be deliberately cheesy to underline the loss of their humanity and emotions, which would make them sound like they were posing, rather than genuinely feeling what's in their name, but eh, that's speculation. All I know is that I don't like that aspect of their designs that much.
Now David Hayter... I always thought he was trying way too hard to get to some bad ass sound his voice is not capable of. What comes out instead is something that sounds more like loud whispering, if that makes any sense. Compressed and unnatural, instead of raspy with an accentuated bass range. Sometimes it's okay, but the bad act sticks out like a sore thumb at times.
AltogetherAndrews
Member
Rufus said:
I was going to comment on this earlier, but I wasn't sure how to make my comment without being yelled at by others. But screw it. Basically, there is an element of cheese to this, specifically the "Rage... RaaAAyaaaee'ch!" line, and this element has been present in just about every Japanese animated show or game I've come across. Is what I consider cheese considered cool in Japan? Or is it still considered cheese, only a desirable and therefore deliberate type of cheese? Honest question here.
I like the bosses, but I'm so bored of MGS4 before playing the damn game. Have we seen every fucking cut scene from the first area by now? I didn't even care to watch a higher quality trailer than the early kotaku one, I don't know if it was because I've seen so many spoilers already or I've seen the same town 50 times already. I really hope there's a lot more to the game and kojima plans to actually surprise gamers while playing.
Valkyr Junkie
Member
Are there high-quality non-watermarked scans from the press announcement?
Just like MGS2 & MGS3, Kojima will show a ton of footage before the game comes out and we still won't have any idea what the real game is all about.
Chrono said:
Just like MGS2 & MGS3, Kojima will show a ton of footage before the game comes out and we still won't have any idea what the real game is all about.
freethought
Member
karasu said:
omfg
"Your code name for this mission will be Booby-Trap Dung-Beetle" :lol
Check out her legs, it looks like she still has her human legs to some degree and they have attachments, maybe for landing who knows.
Edit: Hmmm, after a closer look the proportion are kind of out, guess she does have fully prosthetic legs.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
All their screams and laughs sound demented, some even disturbing, just as you'd expect from characters introduced as having mind damaged beyond repair. Not at all out of place, and most definitely not at all unusual for characters in MGS game. I thought the whole thing, voices, sounds, visuals, was outstanding in this trailer.Dante said:
DjangoReinhardt
Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
I thought the trailer was embarrassing. It sobered me right up to reality after the gameplay trailer almost had me convinced Kojima was going to make the MGS game I've always wanted.
Ether_Snake
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freethought said:
SPOILERS!!!! Of all MG games!!!
You need to play MPO or at least see the cutscenes
In MGS3, Big Boss handed over the legacy to The Philosophers. Ocelot kept the second half for himself, pretending the soviets had it (this is clear in MPO). In MPO, Gene is a puppet of The Philosophers whom they use for their own strategic advantage. They use him to force the soviets to remain active in the cold war by having him pretend to betray the US to hand over a Metal Gear to them, because they want the war to continue. Turns out he has his own plan and decides to use the Metal Gear to fire a nuke on the US, forcing the US and the soviets to engage in an actual war and destroy one another, so that he can then emerge with his Army's Heaven nation-fortress. He clearly describes his goal in the very exact same way The Boss described what The Philosophers had become; a formless organization that seeks to ignite an endless stream of conflicts from the shadows. So even tho he seeks to end The Philosophers and anyone else, his ultimate goal is no different. This is why Big Boss definitly doesn't agree with his methods, Big Boss doesn't want such a world; it's not what he wants nor is it what The Boss wanted.
After Big Boss takes him down and puts an end to the whole thing, we find out that in truth there was another group of people among The Philosophers whom were pulling a few strings of their own. Ocelot and a "mystery man" which is almost 100% certain to be Major Zero, have been attempting since at least MGS3 to secure the whole legacy for themselves and "make the world she envisioned a reality" (Ocelot's own words), "she" being most likely The Boss.
Anyway this group knew Gene would betray The Philosophers and would plan on firing the nuke back at the US rather than just delivering the Metal Gear to the soviets, so they used Big Boss as an insurance policy to make sure Gene would fail at the last minute (they weren't 100% sure he was actually going to do it). Turns out they wanted the CIA director (member of The Philosophers) to feel threatened by the nuke and force him to head for a bunker in Washington. When he learned that Gene betrayed them he headed for the bunker, with the half of the legacy The Philosophers took in MGS3, where Ocelot was waiting for him. Ocelot kills him right after telling him "It's all part of our plan to make the world she envisioned a reality!" and he takes the legacy.
Now Ocelot and the Mystery Man have the whole legacy and they become The Patriots, ending The Philosophers' rule (or reforming them, as The Boss wished to accomplish).
In all of this, Gene is clearly shown as a man who has no respect for his own soldiers and merely uses them as puppets. By the end of MPO, Gene and The Philosophers are no more. The entities who Big Boss was opposed to on a moral level are no more, and are instead replaced by people who claim to seek to make the world The Boss envisioned a reality.
Ocelot tells the Mystery Man he wants Big Boss to join them (The Patriots), and says he will help the Mystery Man with his perfect-soldier cloning project (Les Enfants Terribles). Big Boss on the other hand accepts the title of commander of the new Foxhound unit, saying that he can't live away from the battlefield so he has to pass over what has been handed over to him (basically he is sort of saying "Yeah, I'll lead this unit, for their sake, to pass what I learned over to them, to give them a reason to fight even if all they want is to follow orders, at least I'll be leading them FOR them.").
He clearly no longer has an actual opposition.
So what happens between MPO and MG1/MG2 is the huge mystery, because as you say it makes no sense that he would go on to make Outer Heaven after it has practically all ended in MPO.
Yet we know he does.
What happens is unclear, but like I said my feeling is that The Patriots fell out of grace just like The Philosophers did before. By the time Big Boss realizes all this, it's too late, it's pointless. He doesn't turn back on his unit, he won't force them to fight one another, he completes the missions ahead all the way through, and he remains at his unit's side even tho it's no longer a mission he believes in.
This goes back to what The Boss had warned him about, yet what he could not escape in the end.
But during MG1 and MG2, he pulls a "Snake Eater" on Solid Snake. He lures Snake to fight him to CHANGE him, just like The Boss did with him before. There are many parellels between MG1/MG2 and MGS3 (and also with Solidus and Raiden's last talk, take good note of the following and re-read the bolded parts after you read all the quotes):
The Boss: Go home! GRU and my sons are waiting up ahead. You don't have a prayer of finishing your mission - you're not even armed.
Big Boss: Just how do you expect to beat me in your condition? With no weapon?
Solidus: I claimed you for my own, and raised you as a soldier in the army of the Devil. I am your foster father, and your worst enemy.
Raiden: Why?
Solidus: Because I needed to know whether we were really someone else's creation. We're repeating history, Jack. Liquid and Solid hunted down Big Boss, trying to sever the tie that bound them to him. Unless you kill me and face your past, Jack, you will never escape. You'll stay in the endless loop -- your own double helix. It's time we were both free.
The Boss: I'm loyal... to the "end." To my purpose. What about you, Jack? What's it going to be? Loyalty to your country, or loyalty to me? Your country, or your mentor? Your mission, or your beliefs? Your duty to your unit? Or your personal feelings? You don't know the truth yet. But sooner or later, you'll have to choose. I don't expect you to forgive me. But you can't defeat me, either. You know me too well. Just look at that bandanna. If you can't put the past behind you, you won't survive long. If we meet again, I'll kill you.
Big Boss: It doesn't matter who wins here. Our fight will continue. The loser will be liberated from the battlefield, and the survivor will live out the rest of his days as a soldier.
The Boss: One must die and one must live. No victory, no defeat. The survivor will carry on the fight. It is our destiny... The one who survives will inherit the title of Boss. And the one who inherits the title of Boss will face an existence of endless battle.
Eva: The taint of disgrace will follow her to her grave. Future generations will revile her. In America, as a despicable traitor with no sense of honor. And in Russia, as a monster who unleashed a nuclear catastrophe. She will go down in official history as a war criminal. And no one will ever understand her. That... was her final mission. And like a true soldier, she saw it through the end.
ToyMachine228
Member
Regardless of their names...That trailer was pretty freaking cool. And MGS bosses and characters are always memorable so I'm not worried.
freethought
Member
Ether_Snake said:
Hmm, some interesting points. I'm surprised Ocelot is a founding member of the Patriots, that certainly seems incongruous with some of MGS2 and even 1 to some extent. I'd say based on the ending of Sons of Liberty perhaps everything is not as it seems. My guess is that Ocelot, Zero and Big Boss were the original Patriots but then some crazy shit we won't find out about until MGS4 happened leading Big Boss to the creation of Outer Heaven. Then we'll get MPO2 where you'll get to play through all of the crazy shit, maybe like a haunted White House level or something.
In fact as I write that, it seems like a distinct possibility. Ocelot and mystery man bring Big Boss on board then either they come to an impasse or the previously stated crazy shit goes down and Big Boss defects with at least part of the legacy. Ocelot's role still seems murky at best, in MGS2 he's repeatedly referred to as 'working for them'. I'm still holding out hope for Ocelot actually being in MGS4 although at this point it's hard to know what's going on.
Then we get the retconned and remade MG1 and 2 including some cutscenes featuring Ocelot (although obviously not alongside Snake) where he recovers the legacy or something.
Red Blaster
Member
DjangoReinhardt said:
Well in that case, just skip the cutscenes.
Ether_Snake
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freethought said:
I forgot to mention something: In MPO, before dying, Gene gives to Big Boss a microfilm which contains data on bank accounts or some such, basically money that Gene has been secretly amassing which nobody knows about (says so himself). He gives it to Big Boss, tells him he's the true successor, and tells him to find his own calling. But like I said I feel that eventually Big Boss fails, because in MG2 he doesn't sound like what The Boss would have hoped to achieve, but then again she never really told him to become something in particular, she just warned him about how he would have to chose between the mission or his own ideals. I say it is still unclear what side he chose in the end.
As for Ocelot, here's how it goes so far:
In MGS3, we know he is The Boss' son, and in MPO we know that he seeks to make the world she envisioned a reality. In MGS3 he becomes clearly obsessed with Big Boss, he starts to emulate him, and a rivalry of respect emerges (Kojima himself said Ocelot admired Big Boss in MGS3). In MPO, at the end, he agrees to help Zero with the cloning project, but again he is obsessed with Big Boss, saying that he will only help Zero if he agrees to let Big Boss join The Patriots so that together they may become the true Patriots. We don't know if Zero accepted tho, it ends right on that line. If Zero accepts, then we can presume that Ocelot is saying that The Patriots could only be "the true Patriots" if Big Boss joined. Also, if Zero accepts, then it is almost certain that Big Boss accepted to be part of the LET project. If Zero refuses, then Ocelot remains part of The Patriots in some way, but he doesn't help Zero with the cloning project. I doubt the later is the case.
We know Ocelot (and Vulcan Raven) were with Big Boss in Outer Heaven. We know Ocelot is obsessed with something about Big Boss; my guess is his qualities, not the man himself. After MGS1 he takes Liquid's arm, again probably out of his obsession with Big Boss' qualities (and hence in a way his genes). In MGS2 he accepts (again understand he is a MEMBER of The Patriots, not a pawn) to take oversight of the Solid Snake Simulator project, probably again out of his obsession with Big Boss' qualities (recreating the perfect soldier without the need for genetic manipulations). But it turns out that project was not real, Ocelot was used, and the AIs behind it all basically lured him with that premise. We never know if Ocelot finds out the truth.
So we can draw the following picture about Ocelot: He wanted to create the world his mother, The Boss, envisioned. He has an obsession with Big Boss; he probably sees him as vital for his plan to make the world The Boss envisioned a reality. He becomes a member of The Patriots at the end of MPO by retrieving the rest of the legacy for Zero. He probably accepts to help him out with the Big Boss cloning program. We know he follows Big Boss to Outer Heaven (for what reasons we don't know). Big Boss is eliminated by Solid Snake. Ocelot continues to work for The Patriots. In MGS1 Liquid is eliminated by Solid Snake and Ocelot takes Liquid's arm and grafts it unto himself, probably out of obsession over Big Boss and his need for Big Boss' strenght/qualities for his plan to succeed. In MGS2 he takes part of a program to create soldiers on par with Solid Snake without the need for genetic manipulations. Solidus Snake is eliminated by Jack/Raiden, with the help of Snake. Ocelot, who by now is struggling over Liquid's takeover, is betrayed by The Patriots who actually have ulterior motives. By the time of MGS4 Ocelot and Liquid Snake are one person (so in a way Ocelot has become one of the clones of Big Boss outright). We can imagine that Ocelot has been trying to recreate Big Boss or copy his qualities for his goal of making The Boss' vision a reality. My guess is that he has been used for some time if not since the beginning, by someone or a group who doesn't plan to make the world The Boss envisioned a reality at all, and his view of what The Boss wanted is actually a twisted view, just like Gene's was and just like Liquid's view of Big Boss' dream might be. This group has actually been seeking to continue what was already started back in MGS3: to make a world where war never ends, where soldiers are used like pawns, where conflict is used to achieve their own ends. Basically, The Philosophers were never really eliminated. And considering what the AIs of MGS2 say, it makes sense. It's not about an organization, it's a about an ideal, a vision, which constantly returns to impose itself even among those whom oppose it.
Bah, MGS4 will give us a better idea
The "rage" scream is so-so, indeed makes you wonder why they didn't choose to convey the emotion through a raged scream. What's starting to bug me more is Laughing Octopus' laughter. It makes me think of the scythe witches from DMC - kind of a stock sound effect for evil laughter.
CrushDance
Banned
Where are you guys getting all this media?
Naked Snake
Member
I don't want to wade through this thread... Is there a link where I can download the trailer? Streaming is not working for me. Thanks!
....Ether_Snake said:
.....
....I bow down to the grand master Ether_Snake ; ;
Everything you've said makes it all sound so clear and obvious. zomg. I couldn't have put all of that better myself. While a lot of it is conjecture, the idea of basing a lot of Ocelot's actions around an obsession over Big Boss's qualities are well found, and manages to explain a lot.
In that MGS4 gameplay demonstration and in that one super-awesome trailer, Kojima made it sound like cardboard boxes were ultimately obsolete since they made no sense to be in a warzone situation, so I thought everyone would be given drumcans D:Holtz said:
Which, you know, would be AWESOME.
It would be like...
"DRUMCAN Damacy" as a gametype, where one guy's in a drumcan, and whoever lived the longest without getting hit wins. It would be like a makeshift Katamari Damacy :O
freethought
Member
Ether_Snake said:
See, this is where the inconsistency is; in MGS2 Ocelot obviously thought he was deep in the counsel of the Patriots yet we know now that he was simply an unwitting pawn. whereas in MPO he is apparently cast as a founding member (I suppose it's possible Zero refused his offer but I don't think it's likely). My guess is that the events between MPO and MG are going to be incredibly significant to the plot of MGS4. What you've said about MPO makes it virtually assured. More the pity then, that Revolver Ocelot isn't really going to be in MGS4. He's easily the most interesting character in the series.
Of course it could turn out that the A.I.'s or whatever the hell the Patriots have become are nothing more than his pawns and his working for them was a double bluff as he and Zero have been pulling strings from the beginning. That sounds more like the Ocelot we all know and love, that adorably duplicitous bastard.
I think that everyone has their own agenda, including the A.I.s.freethought said:
Also, what are you talking about, of course Ocelot's in MGS4, he's just not how he used to be. Keep in mind that everything's wrapping up into a nice little bow with this entry into the series (and perhaps even the conclusion).
After reading what Ether had to say, I'm even more curious as to what we'll learn about Big Boss, and if we'll learn about what happened between MPO and MGS4 at all. Ryan (or someone) said that there's still going to be a little that won't be explained, a few small mysteries/plotholes left over, even after MGS4.
My guess? MPO franchising.
freethought
Member
Darkpen said:
Are you sure, at most it seems like we'll be dealing with an indistinct blend of Liquid and Ocelot into one whole but with the death of the Ocelot's Japanese VA and Cam Clarke saying he hasn't been hired it's hard to know what's going on.
You say Ocelot's in it, just not how he used to be. That's exactly my complaint. It really seems circumstances have forced the change rather than Kojima's intentions. I guess that just sits uneasily with me, especially when the change seems to be forced by Kojima's unwillingness to replace an actor in a language that I don't even speak. It's certainly a selfish complaint but there you go.
It has the potential to be another Eddie Murphy/Ghostbusters situation. The end result will be excellent but I'll never be able to stop myself wondering what could have been...
Ether_Snake
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freethought said:
Yeah something happened for sure between MPO and MG1/MG2. MPO was a lot like MGS1. Big Boss trying to stop a rebellious Fox unit, commanded by a man who acted no different than Liquid (and with scenes almost identical to what we have seen of Liquid-Ocelot in MGS4, all the way to forcing his soldiers to shoot one another by using his voice (in MGS4 it's a sound)). And just like at the end of MGS1, in MPO Big Boss finds "a reason to live", a purpose, which is in no way sinister. He just wants to be the leader of soldiers that would otherwise end up being used like puppets, and he wants to pass over what he learned to others. Yet in MG1/MG2 he creates his own "Army's Heaven". Something happened, and the actual reasoning behind his motivations in MG1/MG2 are unclear, if not a facade.
And as for Liquid-Ocelot, like I said before there is an obvious likeness to Gene. In MPO it is said that Gene is a result of the "successor project", basically a project intended to have someone that was basically "manufactured" to be the successor to The Boss, and who has been endowed with a special voice which he uses to command his troops. This is how he can force his soldiers to go nuts and shoot one another. In MGS4, Liquid-Ocelot is a sort of successor of MG1/MG2's Big Boss, and more precisely a successor of Gene. When he says "activate it", a sound is heard, and the soldiers start to go insane and some fight one another. It gives me the impression that if Liquid-Ocelot manages to get what he is looking for, he will have the same power Gene had (controlling soldiers with his voice or a device), and will create his own "Army's Heaven", which in this case is Outer Heaven.
Basically, Liquid-Ocelot is the resurrection of Gene and of Gene's goals. Yet when Gene died he basically accepted his defeat, gave his money to Big Boss, and told Big Boss he was the true successor and that he should find his own calling. So I think that someone, behind the scene, has been attempting to create this Army's Heaven all along, and every time someone else put an end to it.
In MGS3 there is no such plan.
In MPO Roy Campbell commands Big Boss throughout the mission to put an end to Gene and his plans. Campbell and Big Boss become obvious friends by the end of the mission.
In MG1 Big Boss himself lures Snake to fight him for unclear reasons (the reason was supposed to be revealed in MPO, as it said "Why did Big Boss lure Snake into fighting him?" and stuff like "Find out the truth behind Operation N313", but those lines were later removed from the site and nothing was cleared up on the subject in MPO in the end).
In MG2 Campbell commands Snake to put an end to Big Boss and his plans.
In MGS1 Campbell commands Snake to put an end to Liquid and his plans.
In MGS2 Campbell (AI version anyway) commands Raiden to put an end to Solidus' plans.
In MGS4 Campbell commands Solid Snake to put an end to Liquid's plans.
So as I said above, my guess is that an entity has been attempting to create an opposing force to The Patriots, and Campbell (and maybe Big Boss indirectly) have been trying to prevent it from emerging all along since MPO. Remember that Big Boss is the true successor, and it is possible that his successor has been Solid Snake, with Campbell being the sole remaining link between the two.
But in MGS4, it appears that it is The Patriots themselves who are attempting to create a force that opposes them. As if, in order to secure their own power, they create a false enemy, an enemy that actually believes it is opposing The Patriots but that is in fact controlled from the shadows unknowingly. They rally any opposition under this flag, and hence end up controlling their opposition through a proxy led by Liquid-Ocelot. The Patriots become the instigator of all conflicts, even those that are aimed at them directly; in doing so they remain in complete control of war and remain entirely safe. This may have been their goal all along, and may have been what Big Boss and Campbell have been fighting against all along.
The following is obviously more about The Patriots than anyone else:
War has changed. It's not about nations, or ideologies. It's not even about profit, resources, or ethnicity. It's an endless series of proxy battles, fought by mercenaries and machines.
War, and its vast consumption of human life, has become a rational, well-oiled business transaction.
War has changed. ID-tagged soldiers carry ID-tagged weapons, use ID-tagged gear. Nanomachines inside their bodies enhance and regulate their actions.
Genetic control... information control... Emotion control... Battlefield control. Everything is monitored, and kept under control.
War has changed. The age of deterrence is now the age of control, averting catastrophe from weapons of mass destruction. And he who controls the battlefield, controls history.
War has changed. When the battlefield is under total control, war becomes routine.
EDIT: Or Big Boss and Campbell have always willingly taken part of this; making a world where war is entirely controlled by them, because war will always exist. The goal of The Patriots may have been to find a way to "encapsulate" war since it will always exist, rather than letting it roam freely, and just let soldiers join whatever side they want to join. The Patriots would merely regulate the war to make sure it doesn't trouble humanity's progress, and soldiers would always have a place to fight in rather than aimlessly wander and trigger unpredictable conflicts of their own. People like Gene, Liquid, Liquid-Ocelot, Solidus, have been taken down to prevent chaos from breaking the container
Ether_Snake
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pel1300 said:
They don't have ANY supernatural powers in the video.
The guy who gets levitated is attached to strings, you can see them. It's all technology. Like Ocelot said on Arsenal in MGS2
What you have to understand is that Kojima wanted Ocelot's voice to be used in MGS4 to represent Liquid Ocelot. The English version of the game is essentially, yet again, the correct version, the version that was meant to be, just like when Kojima said he preferred Quinton's performance of Raiden over the Japanese version (though in no intention of disrespect, the Japanese voices are phenomenal on their own).freethought said:
I don't think anything's been changed drastically because of Ocelot's JP VA being dead, and even if anything was, I don't think we'd ever find out.
Ah, but its there that you're wrong. The irony of that line is that his heritage and current circumstances prove him wrong. Not only that, but Fortune proves him wrong as well right as she dies. There's also Vamp to consider. Also, Psycho Mantis was an authentic psychic, and while Screaming Mantis's levitation may be explainable through technology (along with those strings), I'm sure there's some supernatural thing going on as well.Ether_Snake said:They don't have ANY supernatural powers in the video.
The guy who gets levitated is attached to strings, you can see them. It's all technology. Like Ocelot said on Arsenal in MGS2