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[Dragonborn]

As of last week, PS4 surpassed 7 million. If they passed 8 million, they would have said "PS4 passed 8 million units" so yeah... it might be more than 2 million, but over 2:1 is questionable.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2014/04/16/ps4-hits-7-million-globally/

No it's not. Overall it's not higher than 2 to 1 because the X1 had a front loaded launch; however the ratio throughout this quarter is higher than 2 to 1, close to 3 to 1.

And that gap is only going to continue to rapidly increase.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

That's a shame, I hope dinner and dessert are better.

I was waiting for someone to catch that

 

[vaguba]

Why won't MS post sell through rates???????????????

 

[Handy Fake]

Why won't MS post sell through rates???????????????

Because it's like putting a list of your venereal diseases on a job application form?

 

[jamiept]

No it's not. Overall it's not higher than 2 to 1 because the X1 had a front loaded launch; however the ratio throughout this quarter is higher than 2 to 1, close to 3 to 1.

And that gap is only going to continue to rapidly increase.

...if MS don't do anything to change, yes?

 

[ricelord]

lmao

 

[jaypah]

Why won't MS post sell through rates???????????????

Because they pale compared to the sold to retailer numbers? Surely this isn't your first rodeo with funny PR terminology to mask less than stellar sales?

 

[Tsundere]

Why won't MS post sell through rates???????????????

You usually don't reveal numbers when they make things look bad.

 

[Doran902]

So whats the consensus? Great numbers when compared to Microsofts previous product but poor compared to the primary competitions?

Personally I welcome back my blue overlords.

 

[Salex_]

This thread is moving too quick for me to be relevant but I have to say, I hate the "we need two relatively even platforms sales wise, it's good for the consumer" argument, get's reyt on me tits. What so, it's Christmas 2014 and PS4 has sold triple the Xbox One, suddenly PS+ goes up to $70 and you don't get a controller when you buy the console?

They want to make money whether they have competition or not, and you won't make money if you're anti-consumer.

I really don't understand why so many people say that. It's like they're completely ignoring the PS1, PS2, DS, 3DS, Amazon, and Steam. All of them are market leaders by a wide margin because consumers voted with their wallets. Consumers shouldn't be wishing for an unearned boost to keep them 50/50. We benefit when companies are forced to improve their value proposal. For example, look at all of the Xbox One deals so far. Does anyone think we'd see that if the sales were on par with the PS4? Or if they weren't behind in their biggest market, the place where they outsold the PS3 by ~15 million last generation?

I want pull my hair out whenever someone say "bu bu but look at the PS2>PS3!!1111!!!" as their line of defense for sales parity being needed. Did they see how much value was packed in to the PS3 compared to the 360? Is it called"arrogance" when a company was losing $200 on every console to have the cheapest Blu-ray player on the market, built in wi-fi when the competitor charged $100 bucks for an add-on, backwards compatible with PS1/PS2, lossless sound, and allowing us to upgrade the HDD?

That sounds like being overly ambitious rather than "arrogance". I'm pretty sure they or any other console maker will never release another $600 console.

 

[Freeman]

...if MS don't do anything to change, yes?

It is as much their choice to change it as it was for the XO to sell 3m less so far.

 

[USC-fan]

This next couple of quarters are going to be to very telling. Since MS stuff the channel with titanfall launching. That lead to fire sales of xbones.

Wonder how bad the shipped numbers are going to drop because there is really nothing coming for xbone until fall.

 

[BigSpleenRupture]

...if MS don't do anything to change, yes?

Sony wont do anything??? MS is powerless to change market trends, and people act like sony will sit back and do nothing? I keep seeing posts like MS has all the power to do this that, and sony won;t do anything?

 

[Biker19]

Sony wont do anything? MS is powerless to change market trends, and people act like Sony will sit back and do nothing? I keep seeing posts like MS has all the power to do this that, and Sony won't do anything?

They think that because, "Sony's broke while Microsoft has a lot of money!".

 

[Cess007]

I really don't understand why so many people say that. It's like they're completely ignoring the PS1, PS2, DS, 3DS, Amazon, and Steam. All of them are market leaders by a wide margin because consumers voted with their wallets. Consumers shouldn't be wishing for unearned boost to keep them 50/50. We benefit when companies are forced to improve their value proposal. For example, look at all of the Xbox One deals so far. Does anyone think we'd see that if the sales were on par with the PS4? Or if they weren't behind in their biggest market, the place where they outsold the PS3 by ~15 million last generation?

I want pull my hair out whenever someone say "bu bu but look at the PS2>PS3!!1111!!!" as their line of defense for sales parity being needed. Did they see how much value was packed in to the PS3 compared to the 360? Is it called"arrogance" when a company was losing $200 on every console to have the cheapest Blu-ray player on the market, built in wi-fi when the competitor charged $100 bucks for an add-on, backwards compatible with PS1/PS2, lossless sound, and allowing us to upgrade the HDD?

That sounds like being overly ambitious rather than "arrogance". I'm pretty sure they or any other console maker will never release another $600 console.

I think they well earned (for me at least) arrogance reputation was more due their awful, kinda offensive PR and their executives messages ("get a second job", etc), not 'cause the product itself. The console was ambitious (as overpriced for the consumer) but their message was arrogant.

 

[jaypah]

I really don't understand why so many people say that. It's like they're completely ignoring the PS1, PS2, DS, 3DS, Amazon, and Steam. All of them are market leaders by a wide margin because consumers voted with their wallets. Consumers shouldn't be wishing for unearned boost to keep them 50/50. We benefit when companies are forced to improve their value proposal. For example, look at all of the Xbox One deals so far. Does anyone think we'd see that if the sales were on par with the PS4? Or if they weren't behind in their biggest market, the place where they outsold the PS3 by ~15 million last generation?

I want pull my hair out whenever someone say "bu bu but look at the PS2>PS3!!1111!!!" as their line of defense for sales parity being needed. Did they see how much value was packed in to the PS3 compared to the 360? Is it called"arrogance" when a company was losing $200 on every console to have the cheapest Blu-ray player on the market, built in wi-fi when the competitor charged $100 bucks for an add-on, backwards compatible with PS1/PS2, lossless sound, and allowing us to upgrade the HDD?

That sounds like being overly ambitious rather than "arrogance". I'm pretty sure they or any other console maker will never release another $600 console.

I don't see why it can't be looked at as overly ambitious and arrogant. Because it kind of was both. Great system for the money but the idea that they thought $600 bucks was cool is also kind of stupid. Naturally that makes the XO for $500 look kind of crazy too when you think about it.

 

[BigSpleenRupture]

They think that because, "Sony's broke while Microsoft has a lot of money!".

Xbox has a budget...MS had money with x1 and 360 too didn't make a difference, you cannot buy your way the market lead.

Sony spent billions on R&D, are always launching new products, many high end, and supporting many first party studios.

 

[jamiept]

It is as much their choice to change it as it was for the XO to sell 3m less so far.

I am not sure what you are talking about.

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

So whats the consensus? Great numbers when compared to Microsofts previous product but poor compared to the primary competitions?

Personally I welcome back my blue overlords.

Those numbers are empty anyway. Xbox sold - what? - 25 million? It's not like the Xbox 360 was built upon a wide foundation, and yet it managed to sell more than triple its predecessor. But those sales were over a long period of time. Microsoft earned them. They fought hard for them. They aggressively bashed their competition for the sake of mindshare (surely I'm not the only one who remembers nearly-weekly PR statements from Nelson and Greenburg about such-and-such game looking better on 360 or such-and-such game selling betteer). It didn't fly out of the gate at top speed. I think Gears of War, Halo 3, and CoD4 is when sales really started to pick up.

Xbox One? It's the sequel to a console that sold over 45m in the USA alone, a console that dominated in the UK and parts of Europe. Xbox One is being placed upon a very broad foundation and yet the sales are lagging. No value in saying "it's outpacing the 360...on average" when it's pretty clear that Xbox One is struggling to maintain the current pace, while 360's pace only increased after launch.

 

[VillageBC]

I find it absurd that people are saying X1 is doing bad. Its outpacing all last gen. Ps4 is just dominating is only difference

It's the trend that appears to be bad and that may not be an easy thing to reverse. It's selling less, and it's sales are slowing at a faster pace than it's rival. The markets it previously led are currently in Sony's hands and appear to be shifting greater in that direction. It was outsold with plenty of stock available with it's big Titanfall release and all the bundles and price cuts only slowed the bleed. XB1 is slightly weaker and gaming press will always point that out in multiplatform games creating an ever present cloud much like PS3 had.

Yes, it's very early in the generation and the PS4 has already sold nearly 10% of the PS3 lifetime sales while XB1 sits around 5% (using 80m as a base). While US market may still ultimately swing towards XB1 it is very unlikely to be anywhere near the level of dominance previously held.

Things are just not looking that bright for MS and Sony has pulled off a pretty epic turn around. If the trend continues I think we could be looking at something more along the lines of 100-120m PS4 vs 40-60m XB1 near the end of the generation.

 

[Freeman]

I am not sure what you are talking about.

They can't revert the situation at will, they are trying since before the console launch to improve their situation, nothing has worked so far.

 

[RealityPales]

The 360 had a pretty mediocre lunch year I think. They weren't rushing out of the gate.

I hate bad lunch lol

 

[funkystudent]

LOL.

.... At the the idea the Wii U will sell over 20 million.

 

[SwiftDeath]

This graphic is never gonna happen

Spoiler

No way Wii U sells that much

Edit: Damn it funky

 

[jaypah]

Sony wont do anything??? MS is powerless to change market trends, and people act like sony will sit back and do nothing? I keep seeing posts like MS has all the power to do this that, and sony won;t do anything?

Agreed. Thinking that Sony can't adjust if need be is as weird as thinking that it's already all over for MS. It's shortsighted and reeks of "hopes and wishes".

 

[Freeman]

Have we ever had a generation where the best selling console once all of them hit the market didn't win?

 

[Doran902]

Those numbers are empty anyway. Xbox sold - what? - 25 million? It's not like the Xbox 360 was built upon a wide foundation, and yet it managed to sell more than triple its predecessor. But those sales were over a long period of time. It didn't fly out of the gate at top speed. I think Gears of War, Halo 3, and CoD4 is when sales really started to pick up.

Xbox One? It's the sequel to a console that sold over 45m in the USA alone, a console that dominated in the UK and parts of Europe. Xbox One is being placed upon a very broad foundation and yet the sales are lagging. No value in saying "it's outpacing the 360...on average" when it's pretty clear that Xbox One is struggling to maintain the current pace, while 360's pace only increased after launch.

Yeah I agree, and i don't think history will repeat itself. Speaking as someone who bought a 360 for Halo 3, Gears and Fable 2, none of those franchises interest me anymore and aren't reasons for me to buy an Xbox One. Franchise overkill. Halo 4 and Fable 3 were the two worst games in those series.

 

[Abdiel]

Ah okay. I thought people were just adding the 2013 sold numbers and 2014 shipped numbers together.



Verendus is trolling man.



Paging serversurfer or Abdiel.

Heh, hey! I've been catching up on the thread.

Yeah, Best Buy and other retailers don't make those kinds of deals without having the backup of Vendor Credit and other rebates associated with manufacturer coverage. Unless a product has reached "End of Life", where it's considered at risk and useless, if a product is discounted like that, it's because we've received assurance of cost coverage. We have monthly "SSB" or Store Send Back shipments, where product is evaluated at a corporate level, and if it's not met the demand anticipated, it gets either reallocated to stores where it sells, or it gets sent back to the manufacturer for a refund.

And it's been interesting to follow up on sales, now that the PS4 is becoming more readily stocked... XB1 numbers have started to stagnate again, or at least drop off, with the PS4 typically having a 2:1 sales average per week in every store in a district. Sony shifted a LOT of inventory our way last month, and it looks like that has continued to remain a high priority, though I hope the EU starts getting more inventory, because as much as it's still selling well, the demand overseas is still crazy.

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

Have we ever had a generation where the best selling console once all of them hit the market didn't win?

Genesis, for a period of time, was outselling (outseliing, mind you, not simply having higher total sales) the SNES in the USA as well as Japan and Europe, iirc.

But that might be partly due to the fact that it launched a few years earlier, was cheaper, and had a large library of games by the time SNES hit. Not the case this gen, of course.

 

[Handy Fake]

Heh, hey! I've been catching up on the thread.

Yeah, Best Buy and other retailers don't make those kinds of deals without having the backup of Vendor Credit and other rebates associated with manufacturer coverage. Unless a product has reached "End of Life", where it's considered at risk and useless, if a product is discounted like that, it's because we've received assurance of cost coverage. We have monthly "SSB" or Store Send Back shipments, where product is evaluated at a corporate level, and if it's not met the demand anticipated, it gets either reallocated to stores where it sells, or it gets sent back to the manufacturer for a refund.

And it's been interesting to follow up on sales, now that the PS4 is becoming more readily stocked... XB1 numbers have started to stagnate again, or at least drop off, with the PS4 typically having a 2:1 sales average per week in every store in a district. Sony shifted a LOT of inventory our way last month, and it looks like that has continued to remain a high priority, though I hope the EU starts getting more inventory, because as much as it's still selling well, the demand overseas is still crazy.

Interesting, cheers for that.

 

[SwiftDeath]

And it's been interesting to follow up on sales, now that the PS4 is becoming more readily stocked... XB1 numbers have started to stagnate again, or at least drop off, with the PS4 typically having a 2:1 sales average per week in every store in a district. Sony shifted a LOT of inventory our way last month, and it looks like that has continued to remain a high priority, though I hope the EU starts getting more inventory, because as much as it's still selling well, the demand overseas is still crazy.

Thanks Abdiel

Always love hearing retail info

 

[bunbun777]

Well when thinking of the future I wonder how the One will be as relevant when Morpheus comes out but that's probably a ways off:

 

[jaypah]

Have we ever had a generation where the best selling console once all of them hit the market didn't win?

I'm not sure how you're phrasing this but Wii was murdering out of the gate and went on to lose that Gen to the PS3. If you mean early sales trends once all of the consoles for that Gen have been released.

 

[ascii42]

I'm not sure how you're phrasing this but Wii was murdering out of the gate and went on to lose that Gen to the PS3. If you mean early sales trends once all of the consoles for that Gen have been released.

PS3 hasn't overtaken Wii yet, and at the rate its sales have fallen, probably won't ever. It's still got nearly 20 million to go.

 

[N.Domixis]

I love sony is kicking their ass, we will now see how much power the brand has now that playstaion has erased nearly all the disadvantages from last gen. Ms will finally see why you need first parties. It's going to bite them in the ass this gen. As ps4 widens the gap the less ms will be able to moneyhat and the more they will have to rely on first parties. The kinect crowd that bought kinect isnt comming back so they need to drop kinect.

 

[jamiept]

They can't revert the situation at will, they are trying since before the console launch to improve their situation, nothing has worked so far.

Ok. So they try another approach.

It is so naive to believe that nothing can change. I am not referring to you, just anybody who thinks that everything will progress in a linear fashion.

If the XO was $399, available worldwide, and we were talking about the current sales...that is a different narrative.

 

[Freeman]

I'm not sure how you're phrasing this but Wii was murdering out of the gate and went on to lose that Gen to the PS3. If you mean early sales trends once all of the consoles for that Gen have been released.

The Wii still sold much more than the PS3.

 

[jaypah]

PS3 hasn't overtaken Wii yet, and at the rate its sales have fallen, probably won't ever. It's still got nearly 20 million to go.

Damn, really? Thanks. I don't know why I remember a thread proclaiming PS3 as the winner of the Gen, lol. I've been holding that as fact in my mind all this time.

The Wii still sold much more than the PS3.

So I've heard!

 

[Salex_]

I think they well earned (for me at least) arrogance reputation was more due their awful, kinda offensive PR and their executives messages ("get a second job", etc), not 'cause the product itself. The console was ambitious (as overpriced for the consumer) but their message was arrogant.

I don't see why it can't be looked at as overly ambitious and arrogant. Because it kind of was both. Great system for the money but the idea that they thought $600 bucks was cool is also kind of stupid. Naturally that makes the XO for $500 look kind of crazy too when you think about it.

Yeah, the PR was pretty crazy and the price was too much for people who just wanted to play PS3 games. I couldn't even think about getting it until a few years later since I was living with my mom (limited technical knowledge) and I was too young to get a job.

I do think some people get too caught up in the silly quotes and ignore the actual value in the 2006 hardware though.

 

[ascii42]

Damn, really? Thanks. I don't know why I remember a thread proclaiming PS3 as the winner of the Gen, lol. I've been holding that as fact in my mind all this time.

As far as we know, it's ahead of the 360. That's probably where the confusion comes from.

 

[Faustek]

No, it's not. I don't understand where this is coming from.

Competitive platforms are good for the consumer. Sales parity is completely irrelevant to the consumer. In fact, if one platform lags behind the other, it is because the consumer has decided that one platform is not actually good for them. That is how it works. The dog wags the tail.

This "competition is good" thing has grown completely into a monster. Competition is the means by which a lessor is weeded out. If a platform is weaker, it should lose. That is competition. This whole "parity is good for the consumer"/"two platforms selling well is good for the consumer" sentiment is bizarre.

What you are espousing is not capitalism or competition but instead crony capitalism in which market competitors are propped up for the sake of having market competitors.

Feels as this should be a mandatory quote in the OP in every sales thread.

 

[jaypah]

As far as we know, it's ahead of the 360. That's probably where the confusion comes from.

Ah, folks do tend to make it a 2-man race. That's probably where I slipped up. Thanks again.

 

[BigSpleenRupture]

Ok. So they try another approach.

It is so naive to believe that nothing can change. I am not referring to you, just anybody who thinks that everything will progress in a linear fashion.

If the XO was $399, available worldwide, and we were talking about the current sales...that is a different narrative.

If they were the same price ps4 would still be outselling x1......xbox is not strong outside the US, it's why a disaster of a ps3, launching a year later and more expensive still outsold 360...................

Things can change, PS4's lead is not. MS has no Japan, europe to fall back on like sony does. PS brand is stronger then xbox, that is just a fact.

As for "Available World wide" that is a farce. X1 is easy to get in the other territories, they won't add much to x1's sa;es, xbox is already in territories 90% of sales come from.

 

[Dragonborn]

...if MS don't do anything to change, yes?

What can MS possibly do? They bundled their biggest game for free (an FPS which are incredibly popular in NA), issued price cuts, advertised like mad, and it was all the Press talked about for months and not only did they loose to the PS4, they actually sold less per week in March. Price parity won't do much to change that, they'd need to undercut the PS4 which isn't going to happen

The very best case scenario would 50/50 in NA and at this point that's looking very unlikely. Outside NA, the X1 is irrelevant no matter what they do (except UK, which is a similar situation to NA). The gap will continue increasing rather rapidly because contrary to what some would believe, NA is not the world.

 

[Freeman]

Ok. So they try another approach.

It is so naive to believe that nothing can change. I am not referring to you, just anybody who thinks that everything will progress in a linear fashion.

If the XO was $399, available worldwide, and we were talking about the current sales...that is a different narrative.

It certainly can change, but it can change for any side. It pretty much is already at $399 if we count the free game that comes bundles, the territories that it is yet to release will hardly make a difference since in most of them you can already find imported ones.

MS will have to fight an uphill battle not unlike the one PS3 had to fight, it won't be one or two E3s that will turn the tide. Sony historically is hard to beat when it comes to supporting their consoles well and for a long time. Maybe MS has it in them to try to revert the situation, but it is not a sure thing at this point.

One practice that they introduced and I believe will bite MS back is paywalled multiplayer, how many people will be willing to have the Xbox and PlayStation if they have to pay two subscriptions? Not to mention the other things they put behind a paywall that are just shameful at this point.

Their over reliance on third-party studios to generate exclusive games is bound to collapse if they fall behind when it comes to installed base. It takes many years to create a good stable of internal studios.

Titanfall should serve as a lesson, months of hype unlike we ever saw for a new IP before, well received by critics, bundled for free with the consoles (at times at a discounted price) yet the Xbox still lost the NPD for that month.

 

[BigSpleenRupture]

What can MS possibly do? They bundled their biggest game for free (an FPS which are incredibly popular in NA), issued price cuts, advertised like mad, and it was all the Press talked about for months and not only did they loose to the PS4, they actually sold less per week in March. Price parity won't do much to change that, they'd need to undercut the PS4 which isn't going to happen

The very best case scenario would 50/50 in NA and at this point that's looking very unlikely. Outside NA, the X1 is irrelevant no matter what they do (except UK, which is a similar situation to NA). The gap will continue increasing rather rapidly because contrary to what some would believe, NA is not the world.

Exactly...Amazes me how many people post in Sales threads who don;t seem to realise xbox is really an american console, outside the US, Sony dominates, will be even more so with ps4, as ps3 was late, expensive, and had a negative image for awhile, yet still rolled MS outside the US.

Parity in the US is a disaster for MS. They have to dominate the US to stay close to sony, at this rate they may lose the US.,

 

[Usobuko]

Anyone has figures of 360 first year Jan to March NPD in comparison with Xbox One's? Plus if anything significantly happens during that period, like Titanfall for Xbox One and aggressive bundles.

 

[BigSpleenRupture]

Anyone has figures of 360 first year Jan to March NPD in comparison with Xbox One's? Plus if anything significantly happens during that period, like Titanfall for Xbox One and aggressive bundles.

I think 360 did 1.7 same quarter, versus 1.2 for x1.. 360 was also really supply constrained for awhile.

 

[HI. BILLY MAYS HERE]

I went to dinner on page 6 did I miss anything ?

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

Ok. So they try another approach.

It is so naive to believe that nothing can change. I am not referring to you, just anybody who thinks that everything will progress in a linear fashion.

If the XO was $399, available worldwide, and we were talking about the current sales...that is a different narrative.

Some aren't as given to wishful thinking as others.

Look at Microsoft - not just the Xbox division - and it's hard to believe that they're capable of turning the system around so dramatically. They're already brought out their "big guns". Advertisement? Plenty of it. Bundles and prices drops (unofficially) for "the biggest game of the generation"? Still lost in their home territory. Policy changes? Too many to name. Replacing the old "suits" with the new, saavy "true gamer" executives? Done and done.

What's left? I mean, really. There's this notion that Microsoft has been "playing dumb" this whole time but boy oh boy, just you wait. You'll see. Microsoft has a trick up their sleeve. They always do! And when they finally reveal this secret plan, the competition is doomed. I just don't see it, especially when you take into account what Sony might do. Heck, what if Nintendo has a trick up their sleeves? Wii-U drops to $200 and then we have a situation where a PS4 plus Wii-U is only 100 bucks more than an Xbox One...