Support NeoGAF

[captive]

Appropriate username.

not sure how my user name is appropriate, its from a megadeth song called captive honour.

I also freely upgraded to windows 10 because its better than windows 8, and guess what, i dont have to deal with nagging update messages, who knew. If i didnt want to update, i would take the registry hacks available and prevent windows 10 from upgrading automatically.


Also i dont believe anyone ever answered my question, on my moms surface she was at a screen right before having to accept the EULA. She declined the EULA and it restarted back into windows 8 no problem everything was still there. How is windows 10 getting passed this screen without a user accepting the EULA and upgrading to windows 10 on some machines and not others?

 

[NullPointer]

not sure how my user name is appropriate, its from a megadeth song called captive honour.

I meant it in the 'captive audience' sense. Its what MS wants us to be, though they are far from alone in those ambitions.

 

[MogCakes]

good, cause im tired of you editing my posts down and responding to one little bit, case in point the part where i specifically already said we disagree, you still take it out and say we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I was reverberating that we disagree as acknowledgement that we can't debate further. When I reply, I reply to your entire post, but quote only part of it so that people don't have as much clutter while reading the thread.

 

[Maintenance]

Haha, so fucking shady. I blocked everything months ago so I never even got the pop-ups with the "please update".

 

[AU Tiger]

yeah, i use a lot of old programs for various tasks as well & don't feel like finding out which wont work either

What kills me is that there will be numerous programs that I've got installed on a Win10 pc at the office and then some unknown update rolls through and does some type of upgrade or something and then I'm greeted with a message that half my shit was uninstalled and an HTML file listing everything that was removed due to compatibility issues or something like that. I then have to go back and re-install all of the "incompatible" software.

 

[hesido]

So this is how my Work PC suddenly converted to W10. (It's being used by multiple people during night shifts and I'm sure one poor soul pressed the X button.

Shady as fcuk.

 

[The Real Abed]

I thought Java was being shady by having an automatically enabled checkbox in every updated (Which happens at least once every two weeks) that changes your browser search engine to Yahoo! This is some next level bullshit.

I'm really glad to be a Mac user these days. It seems every time there's a negative Apple thread it's about a rumor that may not even be true. But every time it's a Microsoft or Windows thread it's about yet another stupid shady thing Microsoft decided to do.

 

[hlhbk]

I hope everyone who is okay with this will keep that position if like Windows 11 or Windows 12 is like Vista levels bad and/or breaks compatibility with apps for some odd reason.

I'll make sure to opt out of the upgrade and not blame Microsoft for not paying attention.

 

[hlhbk]

Best thing is that by accepting the update to Win 10 in the first place, they lost all control of updates, so they won't even be able to refuse the update to 11 or 12. MS will do whatever the fuck they want to their PCs and they don't care about how it will break compatibility.

Actually you can completely stop updates on 10. I have done it.

 

[MogCakes]

I'll make sure to opt out of the upgrade and not blame Microsoft for not paying attention.

And refuse to see how this is a trick attempt to catch people off guard, obtusely denying any intent on Microsoft's part and refocusing all attention upon the consumer instead.

 

[hlhbk]

And refuse to see how this is a trick attempt to catch people off guard, obtusely denying any intent on Microsoft's part and refocusing all attention upon the consumer instead.

By default since Windows XP all Microsoft updates have been set to automatically download and install at 3 AM every Wednesday. A Window would always come up letting you know updates were being installed. If you closed that window it doesn't stop the execution of that task. It still updates and reboots at 3 AM. This isn't a new practice. The only difference is that instead of a normal Windows update Microsoft is giving away their latest version of Windows for free.

Either way it is on the user to know what is happening with their PC and more importantly to back up their data in the event something would happen (HDD failure, malware, Windows failure, natural disaster, etc).

 

[newtypepilot]

Forcing things down people's throats is highly unacceptable regardless whether the product is good or not. I don't like having the choice taken away. Microsoft are clearly using underhanded tactics to force people to upgrade to Win10 and if you think that's appropriate, then you are clearly drinking the kool-aid.

They want people to use win10 because it's their first crossplatform OS with intergrated app store. They want your information so they can sell you stuff through their ecosystem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXTWCqTRIag

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Forcing things down people's throats is highly unacceptable regardless whether the product is good or not. I don't like having the choice taken away. Microsoft are clearly using underhanded tactics to force people to upgrade to Win10 and if you think that's appropriate, then you are clearly drinking the kool-aid.

They want people to use win10 because it's their first crossplatform OS with intergrated app store. They want your information so they can sell you stuff through their ecosystem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXTWCqTRIag

Speaking of which, even if you painstakingly go through Windows 10 and disable all the stuff that compromises your privacy, the OS still phones home constantly. To completely disable Win10 from tracking you, you can use Spybot Anti-Beacon.

 

[hlhbk]

Speaking of which, even if you painstakingly go through Windows 10 and disable all the stuff that compromises your privacy, the OS still phones home constantly. To completely disable Win10 from tracking you, you can use Spybot Anti-Beacon.

There are also manual ways of doing this.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

There are also manual ways of doing this.

It's easier to just download this tool and click a button though. Which is what this tool is all about.

 

[Jintor]

i swear to god if they pushed cryptolocker out to everybody but they put the wording on there and hid the 'don't install cryptolocker' behind byzantine menu design some people would still be defending them lmao

 

[MogCakes]

Either way it is on the user to know what is happening with their PC and more importantly to back up their data in the event something would happen (HDD failure, malware, Windows failure, natural disaster, etc).

Regardless of what they've done in the past, the expectation for the vast majority of people is that exiting the pop up infers a delayment of the operation at worst. It is on the user to read, but you cannot deny this is an intended move by Microsoft to force installs given their most recent popup behaving differently in the X button from the previous one. They know that people click the X button often without reading to get the pop up out of the way, and are exploiting this to force unauthorized upgrades. Any attempt to call that consent is disingenuous.

I almost feel as though there's an underlying disdain for the general user with the defenders of this move.

 

[captive]

Speaking of which, even if you painstakingly go through Windows 10 and disable all the stuff that compromises your privacy, the OS still phones home constantly. To completely disable Win10 from tracking you, you can use Spybot Anti-Beacon.

how does the OS "phoning home" compromise your privacy? They're using usage data to make the experience better for everyone. They're doing the same thing with their Operations Management Suite, with people who have their servers on it, they're using data like how long it took to install a specific update or a number of updates to provide other users with information on how long the process will take to update their servers with those same updates. OMG so nefarious!

If you look at their cloud security policy compared to amazon's cloud "Security" policy, you'll see a huge difference in how MS treats privacy.

 

[gaugebozo]

I'm the IT guy for my mom, and was going to check if the k303 update was on her computer. She has early stage dementia and doesn't do well with change, so we had decided to leave 8.1 on her computer so that she didn't get confused. I saw the update was there but was busy, so I left for like 30 minutes till I could deal with it. While it was idling, 10 started installing. What the fuck? Maybe there are legitimate reasons people don't want this shit.

 

[hlhbk]

Regardless of what they've done in the past, the expectation for the vast majority of people is that exiting the pop up infers a delayment of the operation at worst. It is on the user to read, but you cannot deny this is an intended move by Microsoft to force installs given their most recent popup behaving differently in the X button from the previous one. They know that people click the X button often without reading to get the pop up out of the way, and are exploiting this to force unauthorized upgrades. Any attempt to call that consent is disingenuous.

I almost feel as though there's an underlying disdain for the general user with the defenders of this move.

I have no disdain for the general user. I however do feel it is the responsibility of the user to understand what their actions are doing when they are on their PC. Learning these types of things is not hard and in the end if it is learned it could greatly help them down the road.

 

[MogCakes]

Learning these types of things is not hard and in the end if it is learned it could greatly help them down the road.

While I agree, I feel that is only tangentially related to the topic at hand, which is Microsoft knowingly abusing force of habit to trick people onto W10.

 

[RionaaM]

I have no disdain for the general user. I however do feel it is the responsibility of the user to understand what their actions are doing when they are on their PC. Learning these types of things is not hard and in the end if it is learned it could greatly help them down the road.

It's also the responsibility of OS vendors not to install adware on your PC. For many people, Win 10 qualifies as adware. And given the awful way they are pushing it and the shady practices of hiding the cancel link, I can't say I disagree, at least when it comes to the delivery method.

I say this as someone who installed Win 10 on his new PC directly, and hasn't had any problems with it so far. The OS itself is fine (I prefer 7 though), but the delivery method is beyond terrible and shouldn't be accepted. I know you don't care and will continue blaming the user for not reading a deliberately complex message box, but this is one of the worst things I've seen MS do in a long time, maybe ever. This is plainly tricking the user into installing something that they made clear many times they didn't want. If that's not a complete breach of trust, I don't know what is.

 

[The Real Abed]

By default since Windows XP all Microsoft updates have been set to automatically download and install at 3 AM every Wednesday. A Window would always come up letting you know updates were being installed. If you closed that window it doesn't stop the execution of that task. It still updates and reboots at 3 AM. This isn't a new practice. The only difference is that instead of a normal Windows update Microsoft is giving away their latest version of Windows for free.

The difference is that it's automatically updating you across major versions This isn't a silly 7.1 or 8.2 point update. This is going from 7 or 8 to 10. Everyone knows major updates should never be updated to automatically because there's always going to be conflicts. There's a huge difference between a point update and a major update.

I don't even think Apple updates you to major versions automatically when they come out. You have to go to the store and download the new El Capitan or whatever they end up calling it each year.

I had an app once that I had bought of a certain version. One day it updated itself to a new major version then immediately locked me out of the app saying it's a paid update. I had to revert to the original initial version I started with without being able to update to the latest update of that major version because of this bullshit practice the developer pulled. YOU NEVER UPDATE TO MAJOR UPDATES AUTOMATICALLY. And this is exactly why. It's bad developer practice. It's horrible developer practice and anyone who does it should be banned from developing apps.

I can't believe there's a defense force for this. It's a deplorable move from a major developer. But I guess some people will defend anything. And guess what? I'm actually one of those people who obsessively makes sure all my apps and systems are up to date. This is still a deplorable move.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

But lmao right its hilarious

It is! I don't know why people couldn't just read the pop-up. I usually do if it's from Windows update or any of my malware/anti-virus programs. Never takes more than 10 seconds.

 

[hlhbk]

The difference is that it's automatically updating you across major versions This isn't a silly 7.1 or 8.2 point update. This is going from 7 or 8 to 10. Everyone knows major updates should never be updated to automatically because there's always going to be conflicts. There's a huge difference between a point update and a major update.

I don't even think Apple updates you to major versions automatically when they come out. You have to go to the store and download the new El Capitan or whatever they end up calling it each year.

I had an app once that I had bought of a certain version. One day it updated itself to a new major version then immediately locked me out of the app saying it's a paid update. I had to revert to the original initial version I started with without being able to update to the latest update of that major version because of this bullshit practice the developer pulled. YOU NEVER UPDATE TO MAJOR UPDATES AUTOMATICALLY. And this is exactly why. It's bad developer practice. It's horrible developer practice and anyone who does it should be banned from developing apps.

I can't believe there's a defense force for this. It's a deplorable move from a major developer. But I guess some people will defend anything. And guess what? I'm actually one of those people who obsessively makes sure all my apps and systems are up to date. This is still a deplorable move.

Regardless of all of that why does nobody want to talk about user accountability in making sure their data is backed up and knowing what is actually going on in their PC?

 

[EmiPrime]

I don't even think Apple updates you to major versions automatically when they come out. You have to go to the store and download the new El Capitan or whatever they end up calling it each year.

As shown by the shockingly high % of the Mac user base on 10.10 and 10.9. For those who don't know (fringe cases aside such as for testing purposes) there is no good reason to not update to 10.11 from the previous two versions. The average person doesn't bother updating OS X either because they don't know how or coming from Windows they are scared to as they associate OS updates as being something expensive, risky and tedious. Microsoft have screwed things up even further with this debacle.

 

[Generic Power Ranger]

can I click the red X if i got the second screen in the OP ?

 

[Skinpop]

Regardless of all of that why does nobody want to talk about user accountability in making sure their data is backed up and knowing what is actually going on in their PC?

user accountability goes out the window(s) when software breaks UI/usage conventions.

Backing up data is certainly something users should be concerned about but that doesn't mean the criticizing of ms should be less severe. If I run my car into a wall at 60 mph without using a seat-belt and the airbag doesn't pop the manufacturer is still at fault for selling me a defective car.

 

[Jintor]

man it's weird how this car's steering wheel is razor blades and i grabbed it without thinking assuming that car manufacturers wouldn't make a steering wheel out of razor blades

how dumb of me, where was my driver accountability

 

[sixteen-bit]

Forcing things down people's throats is highly unacceptable regardless whether the product is good or not. I don't like having the choice taken away. Microsoft are clearly using underhanded tactics to force people to upgrade to Win10 and if you think that's appropriate, then you are clearly drinking the kool-aid.

They want people to use win10 because it's their first crossplatform OS with intergrated app store. They want your information so they can sell you stuff through their ecosystem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXTWCqTRIag

This 'tuber has 600K+ subs and apparently is a former-Microsoft employee? Not a good look for them.

 

[Jacksinthe]

Check out this shit that greeted my work computer this morning upon boot.

That's 13 minutes 38 seconds. Click 'I need more time'

Click 'reschedule'...

And there it is, the only way to cancel

Holy fucking shit.

 

[Tenebrous]

Forcing things down people's throats is highly unacceptable regardless whether the product is good or not. I don't like having the choice taken away. Microsoft are clearly using underhanded tactics to force people to upgrade to Win10 and if you think that's appropriate, then you are clearly drinking the kool-aid.

They want people to use win10 because it's their first crossplatform OS with intergrated app store. They want your information so they can sell you stuff through their ecosystem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXTWCqTRIag

That monitor setup, though...

Fuck Microsoft.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

My boss came to work, turned his computer on, went to get a cup of coffee, chatted with a few of us, went back to his desk, saw his computer ugrading to Windows 10, and went home.

 

[Archer]

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/w...8-forever-stop-upgrade-notifications-3614204/

Forever.

Spoiler

Forever.

 

[atomsk]

Appropriate username.

 

[Winnie the Pimp]

Holy fucking shit.

Wait, i don't quite get it.. So if you "reschedule" the whole thing will start anew and you gotta keep doing that forever unless you let it install one day?

 

[Incitemaybe]

With all the noise that's being made by this upgrade process, has Microsoft commented on it at all?

 

[rawd]

Check out this shit that greeted my work computer this morning upon boot.

That's 13 minutes 38 seconds. Click 'I need more time'

Click 'reschedule'...

And there it is, the only way to cancel

Speechless

 

[HyperCubed4]

 

[atomsk]

With all the noise that's being made by this upgrade process, has Microsoft commented on it at all?

Microsoft will adjust malware-like upgrade policy for Windows 10 following outcry

edit:

but it seems like they aren't actually fixing the reason this was happening...

Windows 10 upgrade 'trick' is not going anywhere, despite what Microsoft says

 

[Korey]

Windows 10 starts installing in the middle of a guy's livestream

https://youtu.be/eP31lluUDWU?t=28s

Windows 10 upgrade interrupts weather report

 

[The Real Abed]

That would piss me off to no end. Actually it did once. I'm on 7 and once I was having a pretty damn good Spelunky run when suddenly without warning or notification it reboots and starts installing an update.

I was pissed. Though that time it was my own fault. I didn't ever expect that an OS would reboot itself to update without notifying me or asking me. So I deserved it. Wait. No I didn't. Because it wasn't my fault. This is worse though. Because at least that could have been much more easily disabled without vaguely worded nag screens.

 

[ResoRai]

Here's the history of this thing for me (I'm sure it doesn't include everything):

-At first the window gives me two options: One is to install, one is to choose to not install.
-I choose not to. Several times.
-One day the "do not install" button has changed into "install later", which I almost clicked out of a habit.
-Now I'm clicking the red X to close the window as there is no other way to cancel the update. Every other option will bring you to either instantly install it or then schedule it for later (which is then set up for good and you are forced to install when the time comes).
-Clicking the red X worked tons of times.
-The newest update sceen is like before. There's no option to turn it off. The only options are to install immediately or to install at a set date.
-I click the red X like I've always done.
-The install screen closes but another - a smaller one - opens. It says I've now decided to install it at a set date. Under that text there is a clickable part which says I can cancel the installation.
-I click the cancellation button.
-I get a prompt which asks if I really want to cancel the update.
-I click "yes".
-It asks again, if I really want to cancel the update.
-I click "yes"
-It asks it again. I click "yes" and it's cancelled.

The next time the update screen appeared, I pressed ALT-F4 which closed the window and didn't force me to update.

When it appeared again, I pressed ALT-F4 which closed the window and didn't force me to update.

And when it appeared again, I pressed ALT-F4 which closed the window and, again, didn't force me to update.


So they have clearly made it so that the X button acts as if I've pressed the "install later" button since forcing the window to close doesn't do anything. Or at least doesn't do yet. I'm sure they'll code something to go around that.
Anyways, when there are two clear buttons that need to be clicked for one of them to be chosen, not clicking either of the buttons shouldn't mean I've accepted to choose one of them.

I've already decided that I will upgrade during the last month, but I will not upgrade yet since I can't afford the possibility for the upgrade to mess something up when I'm in the middle of a very important video edit project. I want to update when I want to update, not when someone else thinks I should update. Especially as they've already given us a clear deadline for it.


There is no way to deny this update uses absolutely shady tactics to force people to update. This is full on adware and malware spreading type of a practice they've using here. They give us screens where certain buttons act a certain way, but suddenly turn it all around. They play with the words to make the users think they're doing something when they're doing something else. Some people have got a screen with a 60 minute countdown after which the update will start automatically. Good luck for people who have put their computer render or export something work related for 12 hours and while they are asleep this countdown appears and stops the export.

Sure, this is funny in the "shady anti-hero abusing the system and trying to find loopholes in an offbeat buddy crime comedy" way, but in real life it's taken a clear step in the unethical side.





I'm no Windows or Microsoft hater. I was very ok with Vista. I was very ok with 8 and 8.1. I've sometimes defended them when people are saying they are shit. For me, they've been all ok. I even think Win 8.1 is great and wouldn't go back.
But man, this is some seriously shady ass shit! Funny in its own twisted way, but shady ass shit nevertheless

Yeah I'm not deny it's some shady stuff. The hassle it made you go through sounds really abnormal though.
From what you described above I'd agree that the x is being treated as such, but what you went through just seems so odd lol.

 

[jstripes]

With all the noise that's being made by this upgrade process, has Microsoft commented on it at all?

Microsoft is acting like the neckbeard who sits all day in the dimly lit IT office. They know better than everyone else, and have no time for addressing the whining complaints of plebeians.

 

[Seaklng]

This is super sketchy to hear. I've tried windows 10 on both my tablet and laptop and both have had issues, so I reverted back. Couldn't use either after upgrading, due to it not installing right on my tablet and causing it to freeze up; as well as my pc, as I couldn't use my controller for games, use WiFi, and a whole myriad of other issues on my laptop. It's relatively nerve-wracking to hear this.

 

[rrvv]

 

[MMarston]

It happened

GAF Help me

What the hell should I click?


EDIT: Nevermind, turns out it was an earlier type of window based on the OP. Even if I am disasterously wrong, I'm backing up my shit anyway.

 

[maeh2k]

What the hell should I click?

I recommend "update tonight" after you've done your backup

Unless you have specific compatibility reasons for now wanting to upgrade, it really can't hurt to give it a try. One of the reason that Microsoft dared to make this an automatic upgrade is that for the vast majority of users the update process just works without issues.
And you can still roll back.

Just make sure you do a proper Image backup first or at least save all important files to an external drive.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

What the hell should I click?

View report.

 

[inm8num2]

Microsoft takes Windows 10 upgrade near nuclear line (Computer World)

"I'm seeing reports all over the place that the installation has gone through without clicking 'Accept' on the EULA. But I don't believe it. I think people are clicking on Accept, not realizing what they're accepting," said Woody Leonard, a contributor and columnist with Infoworld...

"I've been able to recreate a couple of scenarios using virtual machines, but none of them end with an install," Leonard said in an email reply to questions. "If the EULA sits there long enough [without a click on 'Accept'], it [the upgrade] finally fails."

Microsoft’s Windows 10 push is effective, damaging, desirable, and deceptive (Ars Technica)

But automatic installs, if this is indeed what has happened, push things too far. Switching to Windows 10 is too significant and too error-prone for this to be acceptable. Changing the behavior of the X button is borderline malicious. This is the kind of stunt that you would expect of a spyware installer, not an operating system from a company that should know better. Windows 10, or at least its installer, has become little better than malware, and that's something that Microsoft needs to very publicly apologize for and fix.