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[Freki]

All those missteps by Sony and there still was a very strong contingent of fans religiously defending every Sony's decision.

So? We have people here who tried to defend the whole DRM debacle... I'd say the outer edges of "fandom" balance out really well.

 

[redhot_]

Lemme see, when I first started posting here Snah, Blue Lightning, YOU and a bunch of other left-wing Sony terrorists were all running round acting all wild and crazy :]

@ the guys who agree with my earlier posts.....my theory still stands. PS4 will be Sony's grand finale. World domination or bust.

Now I have heard everything.

 

[SolarPowered]

"we're in an enviable position"

My sides hurt. The shit PR comes up with.

 

[Biker19]

Well, they could start by demonstrating a bit of honesty instead of trying put spin on every piece of criticism that comes their way. Blaming others for their own mistakes and downplaying their competition probably isn't too wise either.

Their PR is so obnoxious at this point. I get it, Microsoft. You're a huge ass corporation trying to sell us a product by any means necessary. The problem is it doesn't feel like any of the people running the show are passionate about this industry. And even if they are, they're forced to speak in a highly calculated way intended for marketing even if it means straight up lying to consumers. Maybe they should realize that most people are capable of seeing past their bullshit.

Also the fact that they're congratulating themselves on their 180s is fucking childish. Most people appreciate that they reversed those policies but they don't need to be arrogant just because they made a logical decision. They have absolutely no business trying make themselves out to be a hero. They really just need to shut the hell up and show people cool games.

Bingo. This is exactly what Microsoft needs to be doing instead of rambling on & on about DRM policies as well as damage controlling, etc.

It's not making them look better; it's making them look worse.

 

[Raist]

I understand that the general consensus is that Microsoft can do no good going into this upcoming generation, but, really, they've done everything you would want a corporation to do when faced with consumer backlash. They've listened, they've made changes, and they're ensuring to communicate that this is how they are going to operate moving forward.

So, what would MicroSoft have to do, beyond what they're doing now, to appease gamers?

I think it's a bit late for that. They pissed people off with their initial plans, which they maintained despite the negative feedback for a long time until the preorder numbers started rolling in. On top of this, they are now spinning the message as "we totally listen to you guys" and "that's right, this is how we've designed the Xboxone".

I'm fairly sure people would be a lot more positive if it weren't for that BS spin on what actually happened.
They still kind of insist that "this is the future" but seem oblivious to the fact that it's not just up to them. In a way, it's a bit like Nintendo's "well people just don't understand the WiiU".

 

[Neuromancer]

Give GAF free Xbones. Then they would still complain because its not a Ps4.

It couldn't hurt though.

 

[Showaddy]

Apparently pride comes after the fall in Microsofts world as well.

 

[Wickerbasket]

It's pointless to speculate if a year from now one system will have more or less interest than another. And once again it has nothing to do with the price of eggs. PS4 could be more popular, but X1 is still a huge success selling much faster than the Xbox 360 did.

Is there a reason why you can't discuss the success or failure of Xbox One without bringing PS4 into the discussion? The level of interest in the Xbox One is going to increase, not decrease over time as increasingly better games and apps come out for the system.

Xbox One is not facing Wii-U type of problems of a lack of 3rd party support or high profile exclusives in the first year. The suggestion that Xbox One is going to burn through it's hardcore adopters at launch and then not find any interest beyond that is nonsense. The announced lineup of AAA games is extremely strong for Xbox One looking out for the next 2 years.

Because whether you like it or not, the Xbox One and PS4 are competing directly with each other. They'll share the majority of the same games library, so a bought PS4 is a lost Xbox One sale and vice versa. The success of one directly impacts the success of the other.

I'm not psychic so I can't predict future sales, all we can do right now is look at consumer opinion towards both devices.

I honestly think both will sell well enough, and both consoles will get the majority of the same games anyway.

 

[Flatline]

All those missteps by Sony and there still was a very strong contingent of fans religiously defending every Sony's decision.

Sony wasn't purposely trying to screw consumers in any of those missteps, they just fucked up. I'd say that 360's missteps of the introduction and push of micro-transactions, online paywall and ridiculously expensive proprietary accessories were much, much worse. Similarly I could also argue that PSN's new online paywall is worse than anything they did with PS3.

I can forgive missteps that were honest mistakes, I tend not to do the same when these missteps are policies purposely designed to screw consumers.

 

[jett]

"As a business, the minute we don't listen to our customers attentively, and adapt and react in an appropriate way, then we would be in a dangerous place,"

I guess you've been in a dangerous place for a long ass fucking time.

 

[Shawn30]

Wow, they are utterly pathetic... how anyone with a functioning brain is willing to give them their confidence and money after all they have been doing and tried to do is beyond me.

I have one and I'm perfectly fine with what they have changed. They took a global smack to the face and switched gears, and now the Xbox One looks very appealing to me. I have a PS3 and thats after they told me to get a second job, overhyped the cell, PSN got hacked after they touted being superior to Xbox Live, and as a company put malware in their own devices
http://news.cnet.com/Sony-settles-rootkit-class-action-lawsuit/2100-1002_3-6012173.html

And thats just a couple of things Sony has done. Does this mean you shouldn't get a PS4? Nope. Companies change when they make mistakes. New people come in, replacing the old - strategies change when sales don't match up, ect - MS has changed the Xbox One polices months prior to its release. So if you buy it or not, it should be IMHO if you like what it offers or not. But continued hate over their mistakes while glossing over Sony's doesn't make a person look very smart. Only hypocritical.

 

[Shawn30]

Sony wasn't purposely trying to screw consumers in any of those missteps, they just fucked up. I'd say that 360's missteps of the introduction and push of micro-transactions, online paywall and ridiculously expensive proprietary accessories were much, much worse. Similarly I could also argue that PSN's new online paywall is worse than anything they did with PS3.

I can forgive missteps that were honest mistakes, I tend not to do the same when these missteps are policies purposely designed to screw consumers.

Wait, what?

 

[Mentok]

If the PS3 pricetag of $699 dollars isnt non-gamer centric due to the costs of the insides, then you have just absolved the Xbox One's price as well. And don't say no one wants Kinect, as I do and so do many others. I don't want a PS4 despite what most people say, but thats just my opinion. Their investment in the cell failed miserably as its not in the PS4, while MS is including version 2 of Kinect in every Xbox One.

I'm confused with the comparison of the Cell to Kinect.....Sony admitted publicly that Cell was hard to program for and caused a lot of problems, hence why the more PC-friendly architecture in the PS4. If you're comparing Move to Kinect, then you've got something.

1st party devs versus buying games is the single most ridiculous argument online that I see. Who cares how a console gets a game, so long as it gets it. Does the third-party who sells a game to MS work not as hard, lack commitment, focus, and creativity simply because they aren't first party? Give me a break on that one. Whether you invest inhouse or purchase outside you are a gaming company so long as games are on your system that people like. Just my two cents.

While I mostly agree, I think there is an argument to be made in terms of library of content for having a strong 1st party support vs paid-for exclusives, that in most cases are only timed. But you're right, some of the 360's best exclusives came from 3rd parties with MS being the publisher.

 

[Vizzeh]

If the PS3 pricetag of $699 dollars isnt non-gamer centric due to the costs of the insides, then you have just absolved the Xbox One's price as well. And don't say no one wants Kinect, as I do and so do many others. I don't want a PS4 despite what most people say, but thats just my opinion. Their investment in the cell failed miserably as its not in the PS4, while MS is including version 2 of Kinect in every Xbox One.

1st party devs versus buying games is the single most ridiculous argument online that I see. Who cares how a console gets a game, so long as it gets it. Does the third-party who sells a game to MS work not as hard, lack commitment, focus, and creativity simply because they aren't first party? Give me a break on that one. Whether you invest inhouse or purchase outside you are a gaming company so long as games are on your system that people like. Just my two cents.

In my opinion the Xbox One, with its entertainment features, motion/voice control, snapping, exclusive games, dedicated servers and Kinect as my son loves it makes the price worth it in my opinion. 4 months before the release of the system my concerns were addressed and on opening day I'm there.

You may want kinect and some others may, but the vast majority don't, at-least they do not want to pay for it at the expense of better internal hardware, which lets face it thats what the X1 is sacrificing hardware specs for kinect as they were apparently impatient in their development so arrived at utilisating their DDR3 (because of their vision) and didnt want to take the risk on the availability of the GDDR5 chips, that in turn cost them gpu space on the APU (afaik). But its completely your choice if you like X1 mate, you have your reasons, stick with the console you enjoy, we each have our own

As far as first party vs 3rd party, if you want to seperate them into categories, 3rd party ofc is generally playable by all, so what do you do by buying it, you remove it from your competitors system (atleast for a timed period) - its a cheap way of getting an exclusive....and ends up on the other console anyway (in alot of cases) - atleast with 1st party you DO get generally better quality games, as their devs make it a personal interest in the hardware and know how to make it perform better and exclusives stay exclusive. I guarantee based on past experience the amount of "exclusives" ms buy slows down, coming from a previous 360 owner.

Im not clutching at straws when I say sony own a far superior quanity of studios with multiple teams, putting out various types of genres, not just fps/racing sims. But that said... if you like the quanity of games you get and type of games you get versus the competition, its your money and your call

 

[Wolfenstein7]

This just in: Microsoft employees injecting themselves with AIDS infected needles because it puts them in an enviable position. More at 11.

 

[w00zey]

This just in: Microsoft employees injecting themselves with AIDS infected needles because it puts them in an enviable position. More at 11.

princessmononoketreepeople.jpg

 

[hwy_61]

This just in: Microsoft employees injecting themselves with AIDS infected needles because it puts them in an enviable position. More at 11.

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Funny guy

 

[malfcn]

This just in: Microsoft employees injecting themselves with AIDS infected needles because it puts them in an enviable position. More at 11.

That isn't funny.

 

[Flatline]

I have one and I'm perfectly fine with what they have changed. They took a global smack to the face and switched gears, and now the Xbox One looks very appealing to me. I have a PS3 and thats after they told me to get a second job, overhyped the cell, PSN got hacked after they touted being superior to Xbox Live, and as a company put malware in their own devices
http://news.cnet.com/Sony-settles-rootkit-class-action-lawsuit/2100-1002_3-6012173.html

And thats just a couple of things Sony has done. Does this mean you shouldn't get a PS4? Nope. Companies change when they make mistakes. New people come in, replacing the old - strategies change when sales don't match up, ect - MS has changed the Xbox One polices months prior to its release. So if you buy it or not, it should be IMHO if you like what it offers or not. But continued hate over their mistakes while glossing over Sony's doesn't make a person look very smart. Only hypocritical.

Posts like this will be hilarious in retrospect if Microsoft starts reenacting their DRM policies one by one in the future. And btw if we're going to use a company's entire history and not specifically from the console department, Microsoft has done horrible, horrible shit compared to Sony. The antitrust scandals alone are enough to fill up a thread not just one small post.

Wait, what?

What exactly didn't you understand?

 

[Shawn30]

I'm confused with the comparison of the Cell to Kinect.....Sony admitted publicly that Cell was hard to program for and caused a lot of problems, hence why the more PC-friendly architecture in the PS4. If you're comparing Move to Kinect, then you've got something.




While I mostly agree, I think there is an argument to be made in terms of library of content for having a strong 1st party support vs paid-for exclusives, that in most cases are only timed. But you're right, some of the 360's best exclusives came from 3rd parties with MS being the publisher.

The comparison comes from the situation that Kinect is likely the biggest reason the One is more expensive than the PS4. Cell was the same way for ps3.

 

[Frolow]

This just in: Microsoft employees injecting themselves with AIDS infected needles because it puts them in an enviable position. More at 11.

Well then...

 

[luxstellarum]

Lemme see, when I first started posting here Snah, Blue Lightning, YOU and a bunch of other left-wing Sony terrorists were all running round acting all wild and crazy :]

@ the guys who agree with my earlier posts.....my theory still stands. PS4 will be Sony's grand finale. World domination or bust.

Sony terrorists. Really?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Happy about my pre-order and so are my friends. They won't be hurting in this house.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Microsoft marketing is odd. They're always right where they need to be at the exact moment they need to be to lay down some amazing spin...but they always say the wrong thing.

I should make a gif of this, there's an amazing scene in Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story where Bruce is auditioning for the role of Kato in the original Green Hornet, and he's jumping from rafters and fighting dudes, and sliding down banisters and doing that Jackie Chan shit before Jackie Chan stuff was a thing, and he lands and turns to the Hornet and says some one liner that's super dumb. I feel like that describes Microsoft's marketing beautifully. Aggressively nimble, able to slip in and out of places most companies can't, can get the entire world to watch them at a moment's notice on the edge of their seat and with baited breath, and then literally says the dumbest most anti-message thing possible once all eyes are upon them.

I agree, but I think the only reason that's happened in the consumer product side of things is because of there dominance in the PC/Software sector. Wouldn't mind another company competing with SOny/Nintendo right about now tbh...but maybe they first party stuff will improve significantly this gen who knows...

PR is still in the crapper, but games are much louder fortunately for MS...

 

[Vizzeh]

Sony terrorists. Really?

lol.. I actually found that quote funny. I'm guessing he is having a laugh. (no malice)

 

[Shawn30]

Posts like this will be hilarious in retrospect if Microsoft starts reenacting their DRM policies one by one in the future. And btw if we're going to use a company's entire history and not specifically from the console department, Microsoft has done horrible, horrible shit compared to Sony. The antitrust scandals alone are enough to fill up a thread not just one small post.



What exactly didn't you understand?

DRM or online only/must be online should have been on a game by game basis from the start and MS would have had no worries at all. But forcing it on consumers didn't go over well. Going back to it will never happen in the form that it was. I think MS learned a valuable lesson that if they offer a game and it must be always online that should be for that game only and they have to give us a reason why it works. They wont ever system wide enforce it. That would be suicide.

I never, ever want you to think I think MS is anything less than a cut-throat corporation. My point was that if you intend to judge a company by what hat company has done and not see reason to give them a second chance even when they make the changes you request, then you wouldn't buy anything from anyone ever. And Sony has done a world of illegal thing, lol. So to compare them, if I was able to make peace with Sony's mistakes when they fixed my concerns, i don't see how others, provided they actually want the One, can't do the same.

AS to my wait, what post. You can't cherry pick mistakes and be a sony apologist for everything. They made mistakes just as big as MS gaming wise, and were about to do DRM themselves. So lets not treat Sony with kid gloves. If you prefer their games, system, ect thats fine as its your choice and preference. Just pointing out the hypocrisy in treating MS one way and Sony another.

 

[Mentok]

The comparison comes from the situation that Kinect is likely the biggest reason the One is more expensive than the PS4. Cell was the same way for ps3.

Ahhhh ok, that makes sense. However, one was used for programming, the other is a peripheral.

EDIT: I think my gripe with Kinect and Kinect V2.0, is I have yet to be sold from MS on why I absolutely need it. I mean they've shown a lot of cool stuff for it that's neat, but nothing that's made me say "I definitely need to get one for that!". Hence why I have yet to buy one.

 

[shinobi602]

This just in: Microsoft employees injecting themselves with AIDS infected needles because it puts them in an enviable position. More at 11.

 

[kartu]

So, which customer asked them to restrict access to a web browser only to XBLG subscribers?

 

[szaromir]

Sony wasn't purposely trying to screw consumers in any of those missteps, they just fucked up. I'd say that 360's missteps of the introduction and push of micro-transactions, online paywall and ridiculously expensive proprietary accessories were much, much worse. Similarly I could also argue that PSN's new online paywall is worse than anything they did with PS3.

I can forgive missteps that were honest mistakes, I tend not to do the same when these missteps are policies purposely designed to screw consumers.

They purposefully screwed the development community by putting Cell in PS3. They tried to push Cell as a processor to be used in a wide range of devices, starting with PS3 and they assumed game developers would have to learn to program for it. Sony also removed Linux from PS3 via a firmware patch which was as anti-consumer a move as I've ever seen by any console company.

Regardless, I only think that there's certain irony to the fact that some of the people who rage in every MS thread never voiced a single issue with Sony.

 

[marvin83]

The comparison comes from the situation that Kinect is likely the biggest reason the One is more expensive than the PS4. Cell was the same way for ps3.

Was it not the Blu-Ray that made the PS3 more expensive? I know the Cell cost a lot to make/R&D, but ultimately I think it was the Blu-Ray player that made it cost so much.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20061117130000.html

 

[Omnistalgic]

Posts like this will be hilarious in retrospect if Microsoft starts reenacting their DRM policies one by one in the future. And btw if we're going to use a company's entire history and not specifically from the console department, Microsoft has done horrible, horrible shit compared to Sony. The antitrust scandals alone are enough to fill up a thread not just one small post.



What exactly didn't you understand?

QFT...lol

most business when going national lose a lot of there "morality" and that's why I feel PR is so important. It's pretty much one of the only ways you can still show the bosses of a company still appreciate all the consumers that make them rich, and of course by continuing to offer amazing products.

but let's not derail any further. I can still understand why people support Xbox. It's hard to try and say "I won't stand for this" and yet we go and buy chicken from companies that do terrible things to local farmers. I guess you just have to pick your battles....

meh...I'm good with Sony's stuff so far, but I will try not to knock ppl who like MS stuff better, no matter how much there PR makes my eyes squint.

 

[Mentok]

HA!

Regardless, I only think that there's certain irony to the fact that some of the people who rage in every MS thread never voiced a single issue with Sony.

Agreed. Both companies have made corporate mistakes and moved on. I guess we tend to wear rose-coloured glasses when looking back on our console of choice.

 

[ChryZ]

Reminds me of this line from American Beauty.

Buddy Kane: In order to be successful, one must project an image of success at all times.

 

[Skeff]

They purposefully screwed the development community by putting Cell in PS3. They tried to push Cell as a processor to be used in a wide range of devices, starting with PS3 and they assumed game developers would have to learn to program for it. Sony also removed Linux from PS3 via a firmware patch which was as anti-consumer a move as I've ever seen by any console company.

Regardless, I only think that there's certain irony to the fact that some of the people who rage in every MS thread never voiced a single issue with Sony.

Really? removing Linux is the most anti-consumer move you've ever seen?

How about Charging for free services? In what way is charging for Netflix access neccesary?

How about shipping product the company knew would have a 60% failure rate inside of the first 2 years?

Other OS provided full system access and allowed for homebrew, but also sadly rampant Piracy and it was cut. There are plenty of anti-consumer moves from Console makers far worse than that.

 

[Shawn30]

QFT...lol

most business when going national lose a lot of there "morality" and that's why I feel PR is so important. It's pretty much one of the only ways you can still show the bosses of a company still appreciate all the consumers that make them rich, and of course by continuing to offer amazing products.

but let's not derail any further. I can still understand why people support Xbox. It's hard to try and say "I won't stand for this" and yet we go and buy chicken from companies that do terrible things to local farmers. I guess you just have to pick your battles....

meh...I'm good with Sony's stuff so far, but I will try not to knock ppl who like MS stuff better, no matter how much there PR makes my eyes squint.

Lol, fair enough

 

[Averon]

Lemme see, when I first started posting here Snah, Blue Lightning, YOU and a bunch of other left-wing Sony terrorists were all running round acting all wild and crazy :]

@ the guys who agree with my earlier posts.....my theory still stands. PS4 will be Sony's grand finale. World domination or bust.

LoL. I love console launches because of posts like these.

 

[Version 3.0]

To be fair, the scratching was usually caused by fucking morons moving the console while the disc was spinning.

If that were true, wouldn't it be a problem for all the other consoles, too? Or at least the ones that can be horizontal or vertical, like the PS2, PS3, and Wii?

 

[LuchaShaq]

I don't think people are expecting MS to go sit in the corner and cry softly for two months. Actually, I do think some people are expecting that. And not only are they expecting that, we are going to hear it over and over until launch.

When a company tries to singlehandedly rip away consumer rights of physical games (most though ea/ubi/etc would strong arm Sony to follow suit) it's going to take alot of time and alot of bending over for me to forget that.

Ms would have to keep their nose clean of that bulk shut for years for me to feel co dude t in buying a console from them. For all I know they will flip flop back to drm crap in 12 months.

 

[Flatline]

They purposefully screwed the development community by putting Cell in PS3. They tried to push Cell as a processor to be used in a wide range of devices, starting with PS3 and they assumed game developers would have to learn to program for it. Sony also removed Linux from PS3 via a firmware patch which was as anti-consumer a move as I've ever seen by any console company.

Regardless, I only think that there's certain irony to the fact that some of the people who rage in every MS thread never voiced a single issue with Sony.

So in your opinion they purposely tried to sabotage with Cell the same people they wanted games from... for what reason exactly? The reason Cell was complicated is because Kutaragi thought it was complexity for power was a fair exchange. Linux is actually the only anti-consumer thing they did but it certainly isn't nearly as bad as you make it to be. Compared to how much consumers have been fucked with microtransactions and online paywalls it's nothing.

 

[szaromir]

Really? removing Linux is the most anti-consumer move you've ever seen?

How about Charging for free services? In what way is charging for Netflix access neccesary?

How about shipping product the company knew would have a 60% failure rate inside of the first 2 years?

Other OS provided full system access and allowed for homebrew, but also sadly rampant Piracy and it was cut. There are plenty of anti-consumer moves from Console makers far worse than that.

Yes it is the most anti-consumer move I've seen. People bought PS3 with the knowledge that it came with Linux, and some were using it, and Sony removed it without a single reason why that would be beneficial for the users. Obviously RROD was a ginormous fuck-up, but that's not comparable to reducing the functionality of the device that was already in the consumer's hands. I understand shipping new PS3s without Linux being pre-installed, but locking the existing users out of existing features was just vile.

So in your opinion they purposely tried to sabotage with Cell the same people they wanted games from... for what reason exactly?

Who knows? They could have put a simpler (to program) CPU and save developers millions of workhours trying to harness the unnecessarily convoluted Cell.

Linux is actually the only anti-consumer thing but it certainly isn't nearly as bad as you make it to be. Compared to how much consumers have been fuvcked with microtransactions and online paywalls it's nothing.

I can't think of a single time I was fucked by microtransactions.

 

[Satchel]

Yes, only Sony are allowed to promote their products.

Didn't you get the memo?

 

[Biker19]

You can't cherry pick mistakes and be a sony apologist for everything. They made mistakes just as big as MS gaming wise, and were about to do DRM themselves.

Um, wrong. I don't know where people keeps getting this garbage from.

They never intended to do DRM at all for PS4.

 

[Averon]

Um, wrong. I don't know where people keeps getting this garbage from.

They never intended to do DRM at all for PS4.

God. I'd hope this notion would've died by now. I can't count the number of number of times someone said "Well, if MS is doing it, Sony must be doing it, too!!!" or some variation of that.

 

[Biker19]

God. I'd hope this notion would've died by now. I can't count the number of number of times someone said "Well, if MS is doing it, Sony must be doing it, too!!!" or some variation of that.

I agree, it's very annoying. Do people really think that Sony would screw themselves over with PS4 just like they did with PS3 by going along with Microsoft? I got to laugh at them if they seriously thought that.

 

[.GqueB.]

Um, wrong. I don't know where people keeps getting this garbage from.

They never intended to do DRM at all for PS4.

Hey...

not that I'm one of those people that believe they did but how can you be so sure of the bolded? We don't know what happens in their meetings. What ideas they my have had. The things they considered. They could've had the idea to cover the console in cat hair but we'd never know about it.

Cat hair...

 

[Quadraphonic]

Hey...

not that I'm one of those people that believe they did but how can you be so sure of the bolded? We don't know what happens in their meetings. What ideas they my have had. The things they considered. They could've had the idea to cover the console in cat hair but we'd never know about it.

Cat hair...

Sony considered it in some meetings, but never followed through with it because of the retail and legislative nightmare.

 

[Unknown One]

Juniors sure doesn't know how Neogaf was like back then.

 

[Megatron]

To be fair the reversals HAVEN'T hurt them. They've only helped them. It's the initial horrible decisions that have hurt them and they continue to suffer from.

 

[Averon]

Juniors sure doesn't know how Neogaf was like back then.

Not just juniors. I've noticed that on other gaming sites GAF is being branded as some sort of "SonyGAF" haven. That GAF is one, big entity picking on poor MS and giving Sony every pass imaginable.