If Nelson was a regular dev then no one would care. However, he is the very face of MS's PR and to act the way he did is unacceptable. It doesn't matter what Angry Joe did. When President Obama went on the O'Reilly Show and Bill bullied him, did you see Obama act out? No. He acted respectful and answered questions. No reason Larry couldn't have done the same.
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Microsoft: Xbox One reversals haven't hurt us; "we're in an enviable position"
- Thread starter shinobi602
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If Nelson was a regular dev then no one would care. However, he is the very face of MS's PR and to act the way he did is unacceptable. It doesn't matter what Angry Joe did. When President Obama went on the O'Reilly Show and Bill bullied him, did you see Obama act out? No. He acted respectful and answered questions. No reason Larry couldn't have done the same.
Colonel Nasty
Member
Yeah, Major Nelson should be more like the president......
RedAssedApe
Banned
I laugh when I compare this version of Angry Joe to the interview he did at the VGAs with Geoff Keighley.
Nightengale
Member
There is no such thing as a bad day when you're in a position to represent/talk about your company, responding to a consumer query, and is on-video. You're either on your peak form or you don't allow the interview at all in the first place.
Larry may had been telling the truth that it's not easy, and he may have been defending the company line, but the way he responded to Joe was simply... the worst way he could've handled it.
PR is all about ensuring infallibility and that your portrayal of the message is on-spot 100 out of 100 times. There is no such thing as one bad day.
Larry may had been telling the truth that it's not easy, and he may have been defending the company line, but the way he responded to Joe was simply... the worst way he could've handled it.
PR is all about ensuring infallibility and that your portrayal of the message is on-spot 100 out of 100 times. There is no such thing as one bad day.
ehh, I mean I find Angry Joe incredibly annoying so I wasnt too put off by Major Nelson. I actually laughed pretty hard at it, regardless if it was just spur of the moment bs
Nelson handled it badly, but I also think that a more experienced interviewer wouldve handled the line of questioning better
Nelson handled it badly, but I also think that a more experienced interviewer wouldve handled the line of questioning better
But does anyone even want to consider what was going through Major's head before all of this went down?
1. The company that you work for is experiencing an unprecedented amount of backlash
2. People are venting some of their frustration at you because you are a representative of said company
2. You've been working at E3, walking around, talking to fans, talking to journalists, all day long
4. a guy named "Angry" Joe begs to have an interview with you even though he was not on the list of planned interviews
5. Angry Joe asks you a lot of tough questions that you cannot answer because you have probably been told not to by your bosses
6. The stress, frustration, and fatigue of the last few days builds up and you release a little of it at an unlucky time
I am saying that Major wasn't rude to Joe. No. He was, he admits that he was and even said that he went back to Joe and made sure that things were cool. I cannot judge someone for one thing that I saw them do in video on the internet. I can't do that. That video is not representative who that person is when he's at work, when he's with his family, or when he's going about his day. Major Nelson is not "have you seen Titanfall". He is not "you can't flip a swtich". Major Nelson is Larry Hyrb. A human being, just like you and me. He is not special for acting the way he did because we all do it at least once in our lives.
polyh3dron
Banned
Yeah because it was just this single solitary event that has earned MS the scorn of gamers everywhere.
Really?
To be fair, when Angry Joe was talking about reversing their policies Major Nelson didn't reply in the most appropriate way, in fact he made it sound like Angry Joe was talking pure crap but then a few days later the 180 came.
What else was he supposed to say? Hmm? "Yes I agree with you, the company that I work for is really stupid. Their policies are really dumb and I hate the fact that the company I am working for are doing them." I don't think so. It would be awesome if he could've said that but then he would be out of job.
Not at all, he could have very well stated why the policies were not going to change and why Microsoft stood for them, he didn't need to say something like "Do you know how it works? Are you part of the engineering team?" Of course I'm paraphrasing but it was something along those lines.
The fact that the policies changes took place only a few days after that made Major Nelson look worse in that interview.
I honestly feel bad for Major Nelson and think he has balls of steel to make a GAF account. There is literally not a single MS thread on the gaming side which isn't shit upon with the same complaints we've now read in 10000 other threads. Nothing positive, even if legitimate is ever viewed as such and people will continue to beat a dead horse.
Being an Xbox fan on the gaming side is much like being a conservative on the off topic side. Its exhausting.
edit: baah, posted this in the wrong thread. Stupid cell phone posting. Oh well, it applies to any thread at this point.
Being an Xbox fan on the gaming side is much like being a conservative on the off topic side. Its exhausting.
edit: baah, posted this in the wrong thread. Stupid cell phone posting. Oh well, it applies to any thread at this point.
Nightengale
Member
That's no excuse.
What Larry was going through wasn't even remotely comparable to the kind of craziness and insanity that my bosses were going through a few years back, and they handled the backlash both internally and externally without ever letting even a sign of frustration out. ( and they were having less than 3 hours of sleep every day for 4 months.)
Point is, you are out there, you keep your cool even if inside your brain is burning hell. No excuses. You're paid to do so. It's not charity.
He could have not been childish about grabbing the mic.
No second chances? No cutting him a little slack? No let's start over and try again?
Deputy Moonman
Member
Best post in this thread imho.
I agree.
Brad Grenz
Member
It does seem like Xbox One will go down in history as a teaching example on the poisonous nature of corporate groupthink.
Nightengale
Member
Of course there's 2nd chances. Even 3rd and 4th. MS has made significant strides in restoring their position with consumers, and while I'm not going to applaud them for it, they did a good thing.
But at that point of time, Larry made a mistake he shouldn't had done. I admit it's not a reflection of him as a person, but that's not the point.
The reality is that after what is said and done, there will be a lot of people who will remember the Angry Joe 'Nelson', and you cannot blame them for being aware of it. It only means that Larry will have to work extra hard, but he needs to be aware of that fact and baggage lingering over him for years to come.
i cried at this - here's a tissue.
On topic - they should just shut-up for a while, and stop the spin.
Please stop.
I hope Nelson and Penello see this. See the damage they're doing to their fans.
alongside the PS3
Well, there are still a lot of issues they need to address as well as some that are out of their control at this point (price, mandatory Kinect, system specs, apps behind paywall, no user replaceable HDD, console size, etc). It's great that they reversed the DRM stuff but other issues still put them at a pretty big disadvantage - especially price. And the fact that they're so stubborn about apps (even the frickin web browser) behind a paywall goes to show that they're only willing to "listen" to consumers by way of preorder and sales figures.
mr teaspoon
Member
I couldn't care less that Nelson grabbed the mic, is this really a big deal? It'd be one thing if he was seriously angry, but he took it in the most mild, fit for public consumption 'gee golly, I have a bone to pick' manner.
So he shouldn't be made a pariah, but if he's going to be posting here and doing more community outreach, I think he should definitely be forced to explain what he said. Yeah Major, it basically was as simple as flipping a switch in the sense that your console could be made into what people wanted. You said otherwise, you were wrong. Own up to it.
So he shouldn't be made a pariah, but if he's going to be posting here and doing more community outreach, I think he should definitely be forced to explain what he said. Yeah Major, it basically was as simple as flipping a switch in the sense that your console could be made into what people wanted. You said otherwise, you were wrong. Own up to it.
supaflyryguy
Member
Larry Hyrb's job is to represent a company and its products in the best possible light. I don't care about the stress he was under or the obvious truth that he's a human being like you and me. He's a human being that gets paid a poo-ton of money to act like someone other than you and me, than most human beings, he's a human being paid to act as a figurehead for XBOX, a human mascot known more by his gamertag than his actual name. Major Nelson is a persona, a caricature, and Larry Hyrb is still paid today to be just that.
He's paid to be larger than life, to represent more than himself, to represent a company and its culture. If Major Nelson is hip and relatable and fun and connected, then so is the Xbox. That's the entire point. He's a human link between the Xbox and its fans. That's why he's paid.
So what struck a chord with so many people is that his arrogant, rude, completely dismissive and patronizing treatment of Angry Joe seemed completely representative of how Microsoft was treating them when they announced the Xbox one. His actions seemed to perfectly paint a picture of the arrogant, out of touch company that thought to introduce anti-consumer DRM and always-online policies in its new console.
So, yes, quite obviously Larry Hyrb is a man. But Major Nelson is not. Major Nelson exists solely as a representation of Microsoft. They've paid him quite a lot of money and surely he's worked very hard for consumers to see him that way.
So it's silly to be an apologist for a company figurehead and mascot, and it's just as silly to dismiss his actions to Angry Joe as just one man making a mistake. Angry Joe was the Everyman (Everyfan even), just looking for answers to the same questions millions of passionate gamers had and Major Nelson was Microsoft, the arrogant, patronizing, out of touch company who offered nothing but bullshit and a deaf ear and bullied the everyman right out of the conversation.
New changes in company structure mean new changes in personnel. Meet Marc Whitten.
The man who will be in charge of Xbox LIVE, OS, and TV services. He's the man to talk to about apps behind the paywall.
https://twitter.com/notwen
http://www.zdnet.com/whos-who-on-microsofts-new-operating-systems-team-7000020490/
Credit to MCD
Considering that they are still working on the things they need to do for consoles and their system and that the consoles all need a day one patch...yea I think he is right.
It was not just a switch. To US it may look like that but all we heard was the decision to make it happen. Not the actual part of making that happen.
Evidently it is most likely quite complex
A very well thought out post. I read the whole thing and there were some good points in it. However, I can't agree with you on all of it.
I think the reversals have only helped them. People asked for policies to be changed and they responded, and I think it's great how much they have changed before the system has even launched. I am happy that they chose popular consumer opinion over their own initial vision, they certainly didn't have to. Now you can play used games, have the system offline, and even play without the Kinect. People wanted these features, so adapting towards these can only be beneficial to their product.
I completely agree. Nelson seems like a guy who likes his job and cares about the Xbox fans. I am constantly annoyed at the fact that a website like Neogaf which is usually amazing for constructive criticism, makes it OK for people to constantly go in and trash the Xbox, even if it is off-topic and unrelated to the actual thread. This site was my go to site for video game news and discussion but it's just so anti-Microsoft that a lot of times I can't stand it.
Of course I am not saying all the Sony fans, Xbox fans, Nintendo fans, or all the posters on Neogaf are like this, but there is always derailing of threads when related to any Xbox news, even positive news. A lot of the times it turns into name calling, and mods have to close certain threads. The people that go in and trash threads, whatever percentage of posters they may be, stand out and make this site hard to enjoy at times.
To some if you love the Xbox 1 games coming out and are excited to get the system, you are "brainless", "a paid shill" or "stupid". I'm not loyal to any company, whether it be Sony, Nintendo, or Microsoft. They are all out to get your money, that is their job. It's all about the products.
I think people should definitely voice their opinions on anything, whether it be a negative or positive opinion. However, derailing threads by making off topic remarks about something is just a waste of time and effort. Of course I am guilty of derailing by discussing this issue here in this thread, but I just felt like I couldn't have been the only one annoyed by what Gaf has turned into recently. I'm optimistic for Gaf changing back into that great non-fanboy gaming discussion website though, and will keep my hopes up.
I completely agree. Nelson seems like a guy who likes his job and cares about the Xbox fans. I am constantly annoyed at the fact that a website like Neogaf which is usually amazing for constructive criticism, makes it OK for people to constantly go in and trash the Xbox, even if it is off-topic and unrelated to the actual thread. This site was my go to site for video game news and discussion but it's just so anti-Microsoft that a lot of times I can't stand it.
Of course I am not saying all the Sony fans, Xbox fans, Nintendo fans, or all the posters on Neogaf are like this, but there is always derailing of threads when related to any Xbox news, even positive news. A lot of the times it turns into name calling, and mods have to close certain threads. The people that go in and trash threads, whatever percentage of posters they may be, stand out and make this site hard to enjoy at times.
To some if you love the Xbox 1 games coming out and are excited to get the system, you are "brainless", "a paid shill" or "stupid". I'm not loyal to any company, whether it be Sony, Nintendo, or Microsoft. They are all out to get your money, that is their job. It's all about the products.
I think people should definitely voice their opinions on anything, whether it be a negative or positive opinion. However, derailing threads by making off topic remarks about something is just a waste of time and effort. Of course I am guilty of derailing by discussing this issue here in this thread, but I just felt like I couldn't have been the only one annoyed by what Gaf has turned into recently. I'm optimistic for Gaf changing back into that great non-fanboy gaming discussion website though, and will keep my hopes up.
TheExecutive
Member
Everyone feels for the plight you have expressed about a gaming forum on a gaming forum. If you are exhausted about defending something or doing something on the internet I would suggest you stop. There are a few more important things in life than defending a position to a bunch of faceless internet know-it-alls.
Balls for joining an internet gaming forum? I would rate that someplace around 10,000 on the "you have balls" list. MN, as a PR person fucked up. He didnt do a good job of representing the company because he didnt do a good job representing himself. End of story. People screw up but unfortunately MN has a very visible job. Tough shit to him too- there are plenty of other inconspicuous ditch digging jobs out there so I cant say I feel bad for him either.
R_thanatos
Member
People being happy with valve are people who are mostly very digital oriented , first but this new valve option doesn't change the previous state of steam.. Even with the new thing that is coming , the "familly sharing", steam still work just like before and will work unless something very big happen at valve... here lies the real problem..
Steam just added an option and a feature while Xbone original policies removed all our alternatives except 1 for the sake of familly sharing
I could like , eat a dish made of vegetables and decide that i don't want carrots ... that's my choice and someone else might love carrots and could eat them. ( that's the freedom we have with the current digital distribution as it is nowadays ).
Microsft wanted me to eat carrots all day with no option to go "salad only" ... NO THANKS
Anyway i'm hungry right now but i hope you understood what i meant.
TheExecutive
Member
Recently? Do you mean the MS hate or what? GAF always seems to have a vocal minority about everything under the sun. For this stint it seems that there are some pissed off people at MS. Next year it will be something else.
Everyone bitching on angry Joe here again. I wonder do any of you have the balls to even do this in front of him asking tough questions when pr are standing almost next to him? Sure bitching here is something else but standing there I know for my self that I never could do it. Nelson could be a bit more respectful towards Joe because he was not even prepared but doing so unprofessional towards someone who asks something else. Also Joe has a gaf account and posts from time to time. I have more respect for Joe since he asked questions that we wanted to hear instead of all that pr bullcrap.
mr teaspoon
Member
What are your sources for that? I was aware of the patch, but what else?
Regardless, Joe's point was 'you guys could make all this stuff go away if you really wanted to' and he was right.
That's not really particularly special. You're right, I probably wouldn't confront Major Nelson like that, but I'm not running a game-centric YouTube channel. Joe is.
My thoughts exactly. Reactive 180s does not correlate with sticking to any original vision. Then again, Microsoft has been all about the mixed messaging this time around.
Albert Panelo confirmed it has taken a lot of resources etc away from other things to get the systems ready... replying to a post a few weeks ago
So not a "switch"
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
I feel like I have more to say in this thread. Let me just say, I'm in no way asking for sympathy for MS, since they put themselves in this position. However, I want to say that you all shouldn't get so riled up by these PR statements. People often forget that their core audience isn't the only group of people that reads all of their statements. There's another, more important (at least to MS) faction: shareholders. To be perfectly honest, if I was a worried shareholder, this piece of fluff PR would actually help calm my nerves and stave the desire to cash out as a reactionary measure.
Warning. Speculation incoming:
Sony and MS have seemingly adopted two opposing strategies, not only in console design, but approach to healthy PR. The health and happiness of the both the shareholders and core audience are essential for the survival of the company, and the balance is very tricky. Sony, has hedged their bets that, first and foremost, appeasing their core audience and being completely honest with them (admitting supply is a limiting factor of not launching in Japan, admitting to being an underdog who has made a fair share of mistakes) will build a stronger relationship, drive sales, and ultimately lead to the longevity of shareholder investments. Microsoft, has seemingly taken a more conservative approach, and actually chose to speak in a manner that will directly placate shareholders (swearing up and down that supply is not limited, claiming they are in a position of envy), with the hopes that the core audience will not be swayed by typical PR statement and buy into their ecosystem, regardless. Mattrick's own comment of "the core gamers will buy, anyway" is telling of this strategy. After 8 years of success, MS overestimated the brand loyalty of the gaming market.
I highly doubt MS execs are sitting in these interviews thinking "Oh yea, this completely fabricated answer will really please our core audience!" I honestly believe they make these statements with only shareholders in mind. So there, just thought I would share my highly speculative perspective on this matter. You may all carry on.
Warning. Speculation incoming:
Sony and MS have seemingly adopted two opposing strategies, not only in console design, but approach to healthy PR. The health and happiness of the both the shareholders and core audience are essential for the survival of the company, and the balance is very tricky. Sony, has hedged their bets that, first and foremost, appeasing their core audience and being completely honest with them (admitting supply is a limiting factor of not launching in Japan, admitting to being an underdog who has made a fair share of mistakes) will build a stronger relationship, drive sales, and ultimately lead to the longevity of shareholder investments. Microsoft, has seemingly taken a more conservative approach, and actually chose to speak in a manner that will directly placate shareholders (swearing up and down that supply is not limited, claiming they are in a position of envy), with the hopes that the core audience will not be swayed by typical PR statement and buy into their ecosystem, regardless. Mattrick's own comment of "the core gamers will buy, anyway" is telling of this strategy. After 8 years of success, MS overestimated the brand loyalty of the gaming market.
I highly doubt MS execs are sitting in these interviews thinking "Oh yea, this completely fabricated answer will really please our core audience!" I honestly believe they make these statements with only shareholders in mind. So there, just thought I would share my highly speculative perspective on this matter. You may all carry on.
dragonelite
Member
Dat 3rd console curse
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
O'Reilly was pretty respectful to Bams in that interview. In fact I think they genuinely get along when they're face to face.
ChosenPredator
Banned
i didnt see it as bullying maybe he got flustered with being continously interrupted but either way for sony/nintendo/ms idont really care if they mess up shit happens lol
Nah, that was all Kutaragi's fault.
I don't even know what they could be alluding to with 'enviable.' If they mean turning off the bullshit on a dime with little to no actual setback on the core system or strategy, then all that does is tell me the superfluous bullshit was exactly that; superfluous, exploitative garbage. A test to see what we'd swallow. If they're trying to say their public relations or hardware capacity are on an enviable position, then their heads are still a mile high in the clouds. No one is envying the giant mess they've had to untangle on crunch time.
Seriously, the Xbone itself as a system is looking up, but MSoft's message is still all kinds of fluff.
Seriously, the Xbone itself as a system is looking up, but MSoft's message is still all kinds of fluff.
FeiRR
Banned
One video? Just look at posts of Microsoft people here on GAF, at all PR stunts they pull almost every day. "Enviable position", "preorders through the roof", "most powerful hardware" etc, yeah right... They treat us like idiots, feeding us with smooth talk and pseudo-technical bullshit. They've treated us like that since the day they announced Kinect. Until they truly change their attitude, I'm keeping away from their products, just like I kept away from Playstation in 2006-2008.
No. He might have been responsible for the hardware and the direction they took with it, but he wasn't responsible for some of the dumb shit people were saying.
w1ck3dn1nj4
Member
So one minute its were sorry spin tour, the next minute its "were proud of our vision from day 1. Talk about condescending shite. What I find most amusing though, is how in the face of stiff competition, MS is staying true to its vision of locking basic functionality behind its paywall and think its a hindrance which can simply be overcome by pretentious lip service.
How can it be right that a $500 machine requires subscription payouts to do the things the $400 machine does for free? F2P games behind a paywall. YouTube behind a paywall. Netflix behind a paywall. Goddamn browser behind a paywall.
Seriously, what value is there for customers behind this shit youre peddling MS? What value is there for people who arent interested in multiplayer, but want to use their device for media purposes like Netflix for example? How is Xbox180 even considered sensible value proposition compared to PS4?
Larry, if youre lurking here, take this message back to your chums at HQ.
FUCK YOU MS
FUCK YOUR PAYWALL
Lets see if youre listening like you claim to be.
How can it be right that a $500 machine requires subscription payouts to do the things the $400 machine does for free? F2P games behind a paywall. YouTube behind a paywall. Netflix behind a paywall. Goddamn browser behind a paywall.
Seriously, what value is there for customers behind this shit youre peddling MS? What value is there for people who arent interested in multiplayer, but want to use their device for media purposes like Netflix for example? How is Xbox180 even considered sensible value proposition compared to PS4?
Larry, if youre lurking here, take this message back to your chums at HQ.
FUCK YOU MS
FUCK YOUR PAYWALL
Lets see if youre listening like you claim to be.
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