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[Yoshichan]

I see. Thank you. Dota 2 is the best game in existence though. No shame getting replaced by it.

One is an RTS, the other a MOBA. They're two completely fucking different games, but we can't have multiple e-sports games out there apparently.

 

[RooMHM]

Terrible in every way possible. This makes me want to cry.

BACK TO BROOD WARS !

 

[Haunted]

Man this is too bad, I just started to get into SC2 (I know LTTP) and I was looking forward to watching more and more pro streams and such

There are a lot of content being produced, whether it's pro streams, tournament streams (WCS has a crazy active schedule) or talk shows.

MLG SC2 was marginalised by WCS and MLG losing the rights to the biggest NA tournament to their direct competitors must've been a blow. What's disconcerting about this is that it looks like there's only place for one big SC2 tournament series in NA and as #2, MLG isn't seeing the necessary returns anymore.

 

[TheThunder]

Shame, I haven't been watching pro SC2 as much as I used to but I really liked the MLG lan events (their online and studio output sucked though).

I guess now they'll go back to console shooter + LoL which means I go back to ignoring them.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Yea, to play LoL or Dota 2 you go download it.

To play SC2 you have to spend upwards of $80 now to play HOTS. Completely different. When HOTS came out I thought they would make WoL F2P.

Pretty much this. That plus when you get SC2 and decide to jump into the game you're pretty much forced into 1v1 which is far too stressful for most people. Playing with friends and on a team is much more relaxing and for most people more enjoyable. Blizzard needed to make the game F2P and actually encourage the community aspect of the game. I also thought they would make WoL F2P i can't imagine they are selling all that many copies of it anymore and it would only encourage sales of the expansion.

There are a lot of content being produced, whether it's pro streams, tournament streams (WCS has a crazy active schedule) or talk shows.

MLG SC2 was marginalised by WCS and MLG losing the rights to the biggest NA tournament to their direct competitors must've been a blow. What's disconcerting about this is that it looks like there's only place for one big SC2 tournament series in NA and as #2, MLG isn't seeing the necessary returns anymore.

There is plenty of room for more big SC2 tournaments in NA. IPL, MLG and NASL were all able to pull decent numbers when they were running. If SC2 was at the next MLG it would pull in the usual figures of 120-130K for the finals or something like that. The problem is the WCS system makes it so damn hard to schedule your tournament and actually get a decent line-up of players to be there. It's just a huge burden on anyone wanting to run any tournament besides WCS.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

One is an RTS, the other a MOBA. They're two completely fucking different games, but we can't have multiple e-sports games out there apparently.

I can see why you are upset but why be mad at me? I didn't ditch SC2 from that event and going by what users on here have to say, it's only Blizzard to blame.

 

[Visualante2]

I was thinking recently while watching Dota 2 live for the first time how I'm completely over StarCraft 2. Don't think I'll even bother with the next game. Everyone involved just seems to be really greedy.

Clearly you have never played SC2 or weren't a fan of SC1 because it's easily one of the best sequels and stands toe-toe with the original.

lol failure. Take your trolls elsewhere.

Haha this post

Yea, to play LoL or Dota 2 you go download it.

To play SC2 you have to spend upwards of $80 now to play HOTS. Completely different. When HOTS came out I thought they would make WoL F2P.

Yep and you have to spend £14 before you can even install the latest World of Warcraft expansion. Stuck in the 90s.

Shame really because MLG is going to be more dude bro than ever now.

 

[Yoshichan]

I'm just bitter as hell. SC2 MLG meant a lot, and this is such a huge loss...

 

[Miletius]

Watching SC2 at MLG showed me that i could enjoy watching someone playing a video game competitively. Sad to see it go.

Same. It's too bad, I really enjoy watching SC2 and not so much the MOBA's. But it's understandable if demand isn't good enough to sustain major tournaments.

Time for Blizzard to step and and really inject some (cash) into the system.

 

[Majine]

As a viewer, there is nothing quite like SC2 and MOBAs doesn't replace it. I hope MLG realizes this.

 

[Takamura-San]

I'm just bitter as hell. SC2 MLG meant a lot, and this is such a huge loss...

I'm confounded,.. it is a failure of a game and a huge loss?

 

[TheExodu5]

Clearly you have never played SC2 or weren't a fan of SC1 because it's easily one of the best sequels and stands toe-toe with the original.

lol failure. Take your trolls elsewhere.

Clearly you don't know Yoshi.

 

[antitrop]

Reading through other StarCraft communities on the internet, it seems like they all seem to have had this belief that SC2 was "sacred" and MLG would never drop it.

I think they forgot that MLG was created on the shoulders of Halo and they dropped that franchise entirely after Halo: Reach bombing.

 

[Yoshichan]

Adding that F2P-function (what was it called again? You had to be invited from a friend to get it) was one step into the right direction... But that's ONE step. Blizzard had 20 more steps to take, all which were managable but they did shit about it.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Time for Blizzard to step and and really inject some (cash) into the system.

Can't see it happening. Maybe they could try something like the compendium to get the community to get things moving.

As a viewer, there is nothing quite like SC2 and MOBAs doesn't replace it. I hope MLG realizes this.

I think blizzard have pretty much forced their hands here.

 

[Haunted]

There is plenty of room for more big SC2 tournaments in NA. IPL, MLG and NASL were all able to pull decent numbers when they were running. If SC2 was at the next MLG it would pull in the usual figures of 120-130K for the finals or something like that. The problem is the WCS system makes it so damn hard to schedule your tournament and actually get a decent line-up of players to be there. It's just a huge burden on anyone wanting to run any tournament besides WCS.

I guess that's true. WCS is smothering MLG and this seems to be the result. Both IPL and NASL are under Blizzard's wings now, running WCS and that leaves the former #1 MLG out in the cold.

The NA tournament scene does have the hardest time with scheduling because the non-WCS tournaments in Europe (DH/IEM) have a higher priority than them.

 

[antitrop]

Adding that F2P-function (what was it called again? You had to be invited from a friend to get it) was one step into the right direction... But that's ONE step. Blizzard had 20 more steps to take, all which were managable but they did shit about it.

And should have been done in 2011.

I haven't played SC2 in a bit, have they even added paid name changes, yet?

Blizzard is/was so slow to roll out simple, heavily requested features it's pathetic.

 

[abunai]

I'm confounded,.. it is a failure of a game and a huge loss?

It's more Blizzard than the game. Slow to react, lost momentum due to silly mistakes. Incapable of handling anything related to creating a self-sustaining competitive environment in a sufficient manner. Yet they maintain a hubris about them which is irritating.

BallS@MLG4lyf

 

[Yoshichan]

And should have been done in 2011.

I haven't played SC2 in a bit, have they even added paid name changes, yet?

Yeah, with free name changes from time to time as well.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Adding that F2P-function (what was it called again? You had to be invited from a friend to get it) was one step into the right direction... But that's ONE step. Blizzard had 20 more steps to take, all which were managable but they did shit about it.

That wasn't even a positive step. That F2P function was gimped as fuck and i don't see what it was supposed to achieve.

Reading through other StarCraft communities on the internet, it seems like they all seem to have had this belief that SC2 was "sacred" and MLG would never drop it.

I think they forgot that MLG was created on the shoulders of Halo and they dropped that franchise entirely after Halo: Reach bombing.

I knew this and it's one of the reasons i was sad when the IPL disappeared and the WCS format pretty much killed the NASL. Relying on MLG to keep SC2 going in NA was always a bad move.

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

I used to watch plenty of SC1 pro-korean games. (Favorite was Stork, but Jaedong is such a baller.)

Then moved onto SC2 scene, but sometime along the way I just stopped watching. (Used to watch a lot of tastosis.)

Now I'm deep into DOTA2, and so hyped for the rest of TI3. I haven't even cared about SC2 for a long time.

 

[Ty4on]

Watching SC2 at MLG showed me that i could enjoy watching someone playing a video game competitively. Sad to see it go.

Me too

There was something about the intense line up of matches and awesome upsets.

 

[Haunted]

 

[PhoenixDark]

This has more to do with WCS strangling other tournaments than SC2 dying. SC2 is obviously less popular than MOBAs and will continue to lose steam, but it still commands enough fans and viewers to make MLG a success. The issue is Blizzard are trying to completely take over with a very repetitive tournament. I enjoys WCS but the second season essentially started a couple weeks after the first. It's a bad strategy to over saturate one tournament while strangling everything else.

 

[f0rk]

MLG SC2 was marginalised by WCS and MLG losing the rights to the biggest NA tournament to their direct competitors must've been a blow.

I don't think they lost the rights, it's more likely they decided they didn't want them. They did a shitty job with it compared to Korea and EU and I really doubt they were getting the returns they wanted.

 

[Takamura-San]

DAT MICRO..

 

[mclem]

Please refrain from failing and take a minute to browse how active I am, and have been for years, in the SC-community.

With all due respect, this really doesn't back up the argument that it's a "failure of a game"

 

[antitrop]

SC2 is dead! Post commemoration GIFs.

 

[AdventureRacing]

I guess that's true. WCS is smothering MLG and this seems to be the result. Both IPL and NASL are under Blizzard's wings now, running WCS and that leaves the former #1 MLG out in the cold.

The NA tournament scene does have the hardest time with scheduling because the non-WCS tournaments in Europe (DH/IEM) have a higher priority than them.

IPL and NASL being under blizzards wing shouldn't really impact MLG at all. They could easily run a WCS style tournament have MLG run as well. They would just need to be MUCH more accommodating with releasing a schedule and working with other tournaments so they can run their own tournamnets.

The WCS format was rushed and now they are trying to quickly get through 3 tournaments in a few months. There is just constant WCS tournaments at the moment, it's basically impossible to organise any other tournament right now.

And should have been done in 2011.

I haven't played SC2 in a bit, have they even added paid name changes, yet?

Blizzard is/was so slow to roll out simple, heavily requested features it's pathetic.

It's one of the many things blizzard could have used to make the game F2P. Paid name changes, different unit skins and avatars maybe even special arcade games or custom ladders and tournaments online.

Blizzard have just never showed any forward thinking when it comes to SC2.

 

[Mr. X]

The well has run dry.

 

[Haunted]

I don't think they lost the rights, it's more likely they decided they didn't want them. They did a shitty job with it compared to Korea and EU and I really doubt they were getting the returns they wanted.

Well, we don't know what exactly happened and who dropped what.

I personally think Blizzard was unhappy with the way MLG handled it (clearly not giving it the same attention or budget compared to their own events) and NASL was eager to pick it up from there.

 

[Yoshichan]

With all due respect, this really doesn't back up the argument that it's a "failure of a game"

No, it was a way of showing that I have actually played, participated and dedicated a lot of time to this franchise. I was being told something else.

 

[GalacticSushiman]

I agree with some comments here, SC2 has a distinctive feel - due to its multiple builds/poker style deception/1v1 nature - which MOBAs just cannot replace. They are simply different.

I understand the need to replace a game with its sequel in MLG, but I am not sure "focusing" on a very limited line up is the right strategy, it does not sound like the right approach to expand on the long term.

 

[AdventureRacing]

This has more to do with WCS strangling other tournaments than SC2 dying. SC2 is obviously less popular than MOBAs and will continue to lose steam, but it still commands enough fans and viewers to make MLG a success. The issue is Blizzard are trying to completely take over with a very repetitive tournament. I enjoys WCS but the second season essentially started a couple weeks after the first. It's a bad strategy to over saturate one tournament while strangling everything else.

It's because they decided the big finals had to be at blizzcon and they started the whole thing so late. So basically they have to try and get through 3 seasons of WCS before they get to blizzcon.

Problem is that leaves absolutely no room for any other tournament, it's a problem i was talking about earlier in the year. They are just strangling the scene.

They should have left the game to develop after the hype following HOTS release and brought out the WCS next year when they actually had it organised properly (and actually worked with Gom, Kespa, MLG, dreamhack etc) in deciding on a format and schedule that worked.

 

[Majine]

SC2 is dead! Post commemoration GIFs.

TvT Star Wars will forever be the height of SC2.

 

[antitrop]

Video link to Boxer vs Rain air battle, because you need to see it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYy5CMnXp20

 

[hamchan]

I agree with some comments here, SC2 has a distinctive feel - due to its multiple builds/poker style deception/1v1 nature - which MOBAs just cannot replace. They are simply different.

I understand the need to replace a game with its sequel in MLG, but I am not sure "focusing" on a very limited line up is the right strategy, it does not sound like the right approach to expand on the long term.

MLG is not really about the long term though. They have games that are currently popular and they'll mercilessly drop the game if viewership drops.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Well, we don't know what exactly happened and who dropped what.

I personally think Blizzard was unhappy with the way MLG handled it (clearly not giving it the same attention or budget compared to their own events) and NASL was eager to pick it up from there.

This is how i read the situation. NASL should have been given it in the first place. They already were more into that format of tournament and they are first and foremost an SC2 company (whereas MLG are ready to drop the game at any moment).

Problem is Blizzard should never have given the WCS to MLG. They should have given it straight to NASL but made sure that it didn't clash with MLG (basically give MLG the choice of when they want to hold a tournament and work around that).

 

[BizzyBum]

Why are MOBA's dominating eSports when shooters and fighters are much more fun to watch, especially for the casual crowd?

 

[Majine]

Why are MOBA's dominating eSports when shooters and fighters are much more fun to watch, especially for the casual crowd?

Shooters, FPS specifically, are terrible as a viewing esport.

 

[F!ReW!Re]

First off all that I'm not a big star craft player.
I love the campaigns in the SC games and I loved the 2 campaigns in SC2.

But I would invite you guys to just download dota2 even if you have no interest in actually playing it and just tune in to a tournament (The International that's going on at this very moment is a great way to jump in).

Dota-tv: the in-game client that lets you watch the actual match while it's going on (with a delay to prevent cheating) is just light years ahead of what Blizzard is offering;
- Select between different casters in game. Casters can draw on the map to point out some interesting plays/facts.
- Select camera control: Player perspective (yes this works flawlessly), Commentator controlled camera, Free look (you control it), Directed camera (the game follows the action)
- Chat enabled in either the dota-tv chat channel or any of the chat channels you joined (like for example the Neogaf chat channel where we all discuss the progress of the game)
- See live stats: Kills/deaths/assists, gold/xp graphs, items being bought by players, facts being shown by the commentators, player networth (who's the "fattest" player in the game at the moment) etc.
And did I mention it's smooth as hell?

Blizzard just missed out IMO...

 

[hamchan]

Why are MOBA's dominating eSports when shooters and fighters are much more fun to watch, especially for the casual crowd?

Because shooters are hard to spectate and the "illuminati" of fighting games are intentionally keeping the genre more underground.

Also because MOBAs have like 100x the playerbase of those other genres.

 

[Felix Lighter]

Why are MOBA's dominating eSports when shooters and fighters are much more fun to watch, especially for the casual crowd?

Much more fun to watch is pretty subjective and I'd argue that it's not the majority opinion based on the numbers. From someone who knows very little about them, I personally think fight games look really intense and interesting to watch but shooters as a spectator, bore me to tears.

 

[f0rk]

Why are MOBA's dominating eSports when shooters and fighters are much more fun to watch, especially for the casual crowd?

MOBA is the most popular genre right now to play.
Fighting games have shitty publishers.
Most new shooters are shitty competitive games and CS:GO hasn't got the same support from Valve DOTA2 has. Plus making a better deathmatch game than Quake 3/QL is probably impossible.

Shooters, FPS specifically, are terrible as a viewing esport.

Quake duels aren't

 

[diffusionx]

My favorite game to watch, by far, is Starcraft 2. But I don't follow this stuff - I go on Twitch and see if anything is on (like that Asus tournament last weekend).

Fighters vary - UMVC3 is a blast to watch, SSF4AE2012 not so much.

MOBAs are okay, I dunno though. Not really into it.

 

[Miletius]

This is how i read the situation. NASL should have been given it in the first place. They already were more into that format of tournament and they are first and foremost an SC2 company (whereas MLG are ready to drop the game at any moment).

Problem is Blizzard should never have given the WCS to MLG. They should have given it straight to NASL but made sure that it didn't clash with MLG (basically give MLG the choice of when they want to hold a tournament and work around that).

I guess that makes a lot of sense. Maybe next year Blizzard will be more organized about their tournament scene.

 

[Ikuu]

Blizzard has fumbled so much when it comes to SC2, it's pretty embarrasing. I can't believe they're still trying the dated expansion model when the games taking their viewers/players are free, I don't know a single person that played SC2 that still does, all of them moved on to League/Dota.

 

[BizzyBum]

Because shooters are hard to spectate and the "illuminati" of fighting games are intentionally keeping the genre more underground.

Also because MOBAs have like 100x the playerbase of those other genres.

I really enjoyed shooters back during the Halo 2/3 days for MLG. Now it's CoD crap. It's too bad games like Unreal just don't exist anymore.

Never heard of that conspiracy for fighting games. I think fighters are the most hype out of everything and EVO gets an insane amount of views that keep increasing each year.

 

[GalacticSushiman]

MLG is not really about the long term though. They have games that are currently popular and they'll mercilessly drop the game if viewership drops.

I 200% agree, but it does not seem like the right strategy, more like the easy one

I imagine sustaining more games each year also means higher costs, and I also understand that when a game esport scene is really dying there is no point in trying to keep it alive by including it in MLG, but this seems far too fast IMHO. SC2 is still regularly in the twitch top 5.

If your inclusion in MLG is endangered even in SC2 position, this is sending a strong and dangerous message to the rest of the competitive games out there: you are either number 1 and growing, or you are out. Again, not sure it's the right message

 

[antitrop]

I really enjoyed shooters back during the Halo 2/3 days for MLG. Now it's CoD crap. It's too bad games like Unreal just don't exist anymore.

Never heard of that conspiracy for fighting games. I think fighters are the most hype out of everything and EVO gets an insane amount of views that keep increasing each year.

I think multiplayer Battlefield would be kind of fun to spectate, I have no idea. BF4 next-gen is finally catching the console versions up to the PC and adding a spectator mode, so maybe we'll see.

Certainly would have to be more fun to watch than Call of Duty, I would assume. I can't possibly understand how people can stand to watch professional Call of Duty, it's physically painful to me.

Call of Duty is not a game designed around a high level of competitive play, it's designed around being the most accessible.