Red Scarlet
Member
Bubble Gum Crisis was the show that got me to actually like anime..I couldn't stand the "really good" stuff that I was supposed to like. I do admit the music was what I enjoyed though, still have the cd.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Moé/Lolicon
- Thread starter SonicMegaDrive
- Start date
- Status
I just watched the first episode of Baccano! on Funimation's Youtube channel based on the recommendations in this thread. I originally skipped over this based on the name (screw exclamation points), but so far it looks excellent.
More on-topic, I wouldn't mind this moe crap if it was isolated to separate shows, but it ruins a lot of shows with decent concepts. Gunslinger Girl is alright, but gets creepy sometimes. The same goes for a whole bunch of others like Noir and Darker Than Black 2. If it isn't Loli stuff it's other annoying fan service. The only shows I can stand are usually much more serious like Stand Alone Complex or the first season of Darker Than Black, where this trash is either non-existent or very rare.
More on-topic, I wouldn't mind this moe crap if it was isolated to separate shows, but it ruins a lot of shows with decent concepts. Gunslinger Girl is alright, but gets creepy sometimes. The same goes for a whole bunch of others like Noir and Darker Than Black 2. If it isn't Loli stuff it's other annoying fan service. The only shows I can stand are usually much more serious like Stand Alone Complex or the first season of Darker Than Black, where this trash is either non-existent or very rare.
radios shipping overview
Member
Himuro said:
ZombieSupaStar
Member
news more STATE OF THE ART JAPANESE ANIMATION!
Amir0x said:
AmirOx i agree with you, but let me put your mind somewhat at ease. First off - there is a bit of a war going down between the Superflat artists movement and the Moe crowd. Now i use Superflat as a catch all phrase because some in that side are more of the old school folk that brought the good shit like you mentioned. That sort of Ideological war that was done back in the late 70's to 80's where the Gekgia (The precursor to series like Fist of the North Star, Berserk and the like) style went up against the Shojo, and Shojo-style won out by the end of the 80's.
Second, Japan will man up - but its not going be by these artists themselves nor the Government - its gonna be on a Capitalistic basis. They will have to do the genre for everybody soon or they go bankrupt. They know it. Not overnight but 18 - 24 months down the road they gonna have to do some deep soul searching. Can catering to the Otaku continue to make money? Or are they going to lead them into places that even folk cant take? If the latter happens then the major Japanese TV networks are going to put them towards the margins or not air them - and they are NOT like the states - they are CUT THROAT. And you can almost forget Blu-Ray, they may sell like 23,000 but its gonna reach a point the animators cant make a DIME even on a OVA. They will man up Buddy, when the money runs dry.
As for Korea: The Americans and the Europeans will never take the Koreans as a major force. They are too close in style to the Japanese. China might have a chance but if the Japanese bring there insecurities onto China, thats gonna get fucked up. None of the other ASEAN nations have a prayer nor a clue and India never had the talent outside of the Bahabi comic.
The only place i see that has that same spirit the Japanese locked away some where - Is South America, and there have been some Anime focused on their culture for a while now. I think Brazil, Argentina, Chile could make good work if people started investing in it - i know one dude from Venezuela and he's DAMN good. They just need a bit more time and the writers and they could blow up BIG.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
Pandaman said:
i just like the look of it, plus it seems like back then more movies or short stories came over, instead of a thousands series with 12309841923789127831 episodes.
give me movies over series imo
The Frankman
Banned
Oh jesus tapdancing Christ I knew I'd see some more gold if I came back. :lol
lunarworks
Member
I can accept that happening. (Plus, Spanish is a bit easier to understand.Novid said:
patrickthehedgehog
Member
ZombieSupaStar said:
So much fucking goodness! Neo Tokyo is awesome!
Doesn't bother me at all personally, while the last two years have been pretty weak anime-wise. I don't think the quality of anime has changed much from the 90s or even the 80s, anime in general has always had a pretty high shit-to-good ratio, you usually haft to dig to find the good stuff.
Even in the last two years they have been quite a number of decent-good series - one outs, bakamongatari, tokyo m8, eden of the east new ippo series etc.
Also personally i don't think the influx of moe / lolicon stuff in the past two years points to the decline of the industry at all, you may see a lot of that stuff these days, but it's not like the 80s & 90s didn't have their own equivalent trends, that made up a good % of shows being made in that time. Also the whole lolicon / moe terms originated around the 80s / 90s anyway.
I think my biggest problem with anime right now, is a lot of potential "great" series that have been released in the past few years, never live up to their potential. Anime has a good number of shows that have "good concepts or settings" yet never live up to their initial premise, and end up being really disappointing.
and lol i still wonder how a lot of these anime fans can keep eating up the moe / lolicon crap that's released every year, i have a friend, who is going crazy about this newly released anime about kindergarten children....:lol: i'm sorta concerned, because this friend draws pictures of nude lolicon girls. I hope he's not a pedophile.
Even in the last two years they have been quite a number of decent-good series - one outs, bakamongatari, tokyo m8, eden of the east new ippo series etc.
Also personally i don't think the influx of moe / lolicon stuff in the past two years points to the decline of the industry at all, you may see a lot of that stuff these days, but it's not like the 80s & 90s didn't have their own equivalent trends, that made up a good % of shows being made in that time. Also the whole lolicon / moe terms originated around the 80s / 90s anyway.
I think my biggest problem with anime right now, is a lot of potential "great" series that have been released in the past few years, never live up to their potential. Anime has a good number of shows that have "good concepts or settings" yet never live up to their initial premise, and end up being really disappointing.
and lol i still wonder how a lot of these anime fans can keep eating up the moe / lolicon crap that's released every year, i have a friend, who is going crazy about this newly released anime about kindergarten children....:lol: i'm sorta concerned, because this friend draws pictures of nude lolicon girls. I hope he's not a pedophile.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
Those comics :lol
I don't understand the hate for moe/loli in general.
An anime with moe or loli characters can still be good and/or entertaining.
An anime without them can still be shit.
It's like people are against the simple idea of little girls in their anime to begin with, which I find silly.
Maybe it is just that I watch what I find to be fun and I don't really care if it features little girls or giant robots, silly comedies or deep dramas, so I don't have too much of a problem with the output in anime today.
An anime with moe or loli characters can still be good and/or entertaining.
An anime without them can still be shit.
It's like people are against the simple idea of little girls in their anime to begin with, which I find silly.
Maybe it is just that I watch what I find to be fun and I don't really care if it features little girls or giant robots, silly comedies or deep dramas, so I don't have too much of a problem with the output in anime today.
The problem I have with it isn't because it's just moe/loli or just the "little girls", it's that the story and situations that are almost always used with it just don't appeal to me. My taste in anime is generally the same as it is for TV and movies, that being action, horror and drama. Unfortunately though, the anime industry is moving away from that, focusing on the moe/loli stuff which isn't for me and many others.Lain said:
If you do like that stuff, then that's fine and I'm sure you'll find more than enough stuff to watch, but it's just disappointing for myself and other anime fans who don't like that, and would prefer something different, that the options we've had in recent times is limited.
Himuro said:
Damn skippy it is.
I still have the tape I bought from a video rental place years ago.
Tatakae Otaking!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFcvr_tmjic
Unknown One
Member
When I see Moe or Loli I run
How much of it is genuinely trying to appeal to loli fans, and how much of it is perhaps just aimed at middle school girls?
Are we mixing two things up, perhaps the market has changed - perhaps you're looking at it from an older, western perspective and projecting your culture onto it, turning it 'perverted'?
plus, making 'older' characters look crazy young/have exaggerated cuteness may just be a styling thing.
Are we mixing two things up, perhaps the market has changed - perhaps you're looking at it from an older, western perspective and projecting your culture onto it, turning it 'perverted'?
plus, making 'older' characters look crazy young/have exaggerated cuteness may just be a styling thing.
Salacious Crumb
Junior Member
mrklaw said:
Brobzoid said:CNN article on the decline of anime due to the infernal moeblob
Choice quote:
Fuck you, japanese men!
.
Witchfinder General
punched Wheelchair Mike
I just finished watching this the other day:
Lemme see:
*Hand drawn and painted
*Amazing, phenomenal art
*Stellar animation
*Plenty of "Kick arse" moments
*Character names, places and spells based on '80s Thrash Metal bands
*Violent and anti-social
Yeah, there's a reason why I prefer '80s and '90s anime/manga.
Can't stomach the modern junk.
Hey Japan, how about making anime for adults that isn't hentai?!
Lemme see:
*Hand drawn and painted
*Amazing, phenomenal art
*Stellar animation
*Plenty of "Kick arse" moments
*Character names, places and spells based on '80s Thrash Metal bands
*Violent and anti-social
Yeah, there's a reason why I prefer '80s and '90s anime/manga.
Can't stomach the modern junk.
Hey Japan, how about making anime for adults that isn't hentai?!
Against. Like many others here, I grew out of anime many years ago yet still check those seasonal images with all the shows and just laugh and smh. There is still the odd good show or two being released every now and then. Like Kaiba, Baccano!, Mushi-shi (note, those were all years apart).
It's plainly obvious who these shows are targeted at. They sure as hell ain't being made with kids in mind. And I highly doubt these shows are so popular because of their sheer quality instead of say, the type of escapism that they provide. I think that one article gave a perfect example of such a thing taking place:
I mean really now, what the fuck is so entertaining about a show like K-ON! or Lucky Star? they aren't selling so many DVDs because they are anime's Curb your enthusiasm/Seinfeld, I'll tell you that.
Also, I agree with people who say Cel animation > Digital. I miss the whole cel look and feel. Might sound cheesy as fuck but most of these digital shows have no real depth to their style. No substance in the art. Anytime I see an anime with that shitty digital "look" that's an instant turnoff.
It's plainly obvious who these shows are targeted at. They sure as hell ain't being made with kids in mind. And I highly doubt these shows are so popular because of their sheer quality instead of say, the type of escapism that they provide. I think that one article gave a perfect example of such a thing taking place:
I mean really now, what the fuck is so entertaining about a show like K-ON! or Lucky Star? they aren't selling so many DVDs because they are anime's Curb your enthusiasm/Seinfeld, I'll tell you that.
Also, I agree with people who say Cel animation > Digital. I miss the whole cel look and feel. Might sound cheesy as fuck but most of these digital shows have no real depth to their style. No substance in the art. Anytime I see an anime with that shitty digital "look" that's an instant turnoff.
Lafiel said:
i wholeheartedly agree with your post. if you are willing to dig, you find the good stuff...it just isn't the most obvious.
why do you guys think more and more of this kind of stuff is being produced with similar if not identical settings? it's because the viewers obviously demand it. just take a look at which series' get the most attention from fansubbers, their viewers and the anime community in generel? it's exactly those shows and that's one of the reason IMO why the better shows being mostly unnoticed by the majority of the audience.
i think/hope all this will change sooner or later if the audience gets tired of the same old settings. this stuff is popular right now and sooner or later something else will take that spot. it's not like it didn't happen before.
Was a fan from my 16s to my 21s (24 now), but last years I've stopped following anime completely. Last animes that blew me away were the GITS:SAC series (absolutely amazing), Ergo Proxy and probably Champloo. And yes, most of that is because of the horrifying fandom (4chan and others) and simplistic moe-series in general.
The Sasami's of the anime world have always been there, but never in the forefront. It's sad, because anime can be a really powerful medium with strong stories if it wants to.
The Sasami's of the anime world have always been there, but never in the forefront. It's sad, because anime can be a really powerful medium with strong stories if it wants to.
Red Scarlet
Member
Witchfinder General said:I just finished watching this the other day:
Lemme see:
*Hand drawn and painted
*Amazing, phenomenal art
*Stellar animation
*Plenty of "Kick arse" moments
*Character names, places and spells based on '80s Thrash Metal bands
*Violent and anti-social
Yeah, there's a reason why I prefer '80s and '90s anime/manga.
Can't stomach the modern junk.
Hey Japan, how about making anime for adults that isn't hentai?!
GUNS 'N RO
ShinoguTakeruKoeru
Member
How come nobody so far has mentioned 'Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei'? On that note, how come none of the distributors on this side of the world have acquired the license for it? It's the last series that I loved watching after Casshern Sins disappointed me.
Dina said:
If you made it through the whole of Ergo Proxy AND liked it, you´re really not someone to complain about anime :/
The last more recent shows that were really great were One Outs and Casshern Sins. And people claiming that it´s just this winter seasons thats so bad...wth, the previous seasons, fall, summer, spring and winter before, were crap, too. If i hadnt at one point started to watch romantic anime, like True Tears, Myself Yourself or White Album, i really wouldnt have watched anything at all.
But i really guess that with the end of Death Note the whole industry started to go downhill. Really, back then when whole anime-communities eagerly awaited the new Death Note-episode, it was just great. It´s comparable to whats going on with LOST in the moment.
After Death Note, we got Claymore and Kaiji, but then the quality died down. Shows like Macross Frontier or Edent of East were decent within their season, but far away in quality from what we got back then. Maybe I should mention Magnitude 8.0, but that show had such a shitty ending...
My personal problem is that Im almost at catching up with all the old stuff, as well. Just few months ago, I watched Dennou Coil. What a great show, that would be mega-hyped if it was part of a new season.
Really, Kaiji season 2 is the only thing to look forward to. God alone knows why we arent getting more Berserk- and Gantz-anime episodes. Probably....TOO AWESOME :/
To be fair there's a huge difference between shows like K-On and Sora no Woto then Kodomo no Jikan.
The first set of shows may be moeblobby a bit, but it isn't sexualized and would have merit even if they weren't moeblobs. That I'm fine with (hell I'll even admit I think Zettai Karen Children- which is accused of it also, is one of my fav series ever)
Shows like KnJ are pretty much selling underaged sex to me.
Anime companies are too scared to take risks right now, and that's gonna doom them I think. Plus all their best potential talent works in gaming these days instead of anime due to actually getting paid at those companies.
The first set of shows may be moeblobby a bit, but it isn't sexualized and would have merit even if they weren't moeblobs. That I'm fine with (hell I'll even admit I think Zettai Karen Children- which is accused of it also, is one of my fav series ever)
Shows like KnJ are pretty much selling underaged sex to me.
Anime companies are too scared to take risks right now, and that's gonna doom them I think. Plus all their best potential talent works in gaming these days instead of anime due to actually getting paid at those companies.
SuperAngelo64
Banned
The Moe craze ruined anime.
That is all.
That is all.
genjiZERO said:
Kind of like what happened to the
Spiral King
Seriously, I can interpret the show as a critical analysis of Anime/Manga plot/fandom over the last forty years. If Bandai didn't mess up the localization/DVD release (I only have the subtitled only DVD release), it could of been the next EVA in terms of sales and pop culture impact. I still have hard feelings that ADV did not release the DVDs.
As for Moe, it is best for small amounts and shall be used sparingly. For me, I think Lucky Star is like a Peanuts cartoon in terms of storytelling and explaining larger real world themes with more pop culture in jokes ala South Park.
The Lucky Star comics are way much better than the TV series in terms of getting a joke across. Now for something controversial, I think the first four episodes are pure genius in terms of television while I like the later episodes since it flows with the structure of the comic strip better.
SuperPac said:Definitely agree. Moe/Loli has turned me off of anime as well.
I worked at an anime company a few years ago and was on a committee that screened new shows to determine what we should/shouldn't license. Toward the end of my run at that job 95% of it was moe/loli crap. Yet some of it still got licensed (and some of the stuff we watched back then and said "no way" to is being released now by that company as it clings to life).
Dang. I knew I bought both releases of Clannad since I support that company now but I guess that is one of the few things that I thought was rejected by the last boom. At least I bought Legends of the Dark King (ie Raoh Saga) and I think Sentai Works is one of the better DVD companies out there that I actively buy their product. DVD packs FTW.
timetokill
Banned
Anybody know a good article or sourced paper on the origins of this kind of stuff? Maybe histories of sexual repression or something in Japan, changing tastes, etc.? It would be interesting to read.
Lostconfused
Member
Yeah and they probably wouldn't be able to make any money on those shows.selig said:
timetokill said:
The only one I know of (because I was reseaching this) http://www.comixology.com/articles/265/Moe-The-Cult-of-the-Child
Bluntly, the essaist states its because they aint getting no females. The worst part of it is that this is just a small part of issues with sexuality over there - the other is the "Herbovores" but thats in larger number than the Otaku. However, the latter are respectful of women then the Otaku but the old folk aint havin it. 20 years of a lost generation (econamic) can fuck a country up in more ways than one.
The dubbers tried to get on the 4Kids train and failed. Same thing will happen with the 3D kick the TV industry is now in.
The sad thing is - and i mean really sad - that the majority of the good artists as one of my better friends said to me some time back are in the Blue Buisness. And guess which ones make it to the big dance - The same moe folk and not the ones that do the more grown up stuff. Just like it was in the 70's...
Lostconfused said:
There is this guy up in DaliyKos stating that Fox (or better yet Myspace) are some of the ones that are hurting the buisness via Pirating. My feeling if worse come to worse the Americans will start buying anime studios. Now will they clean it up or will it be called "colonialisation" by the Otaku?
- Status