darkwing-buck
Member
Chloe>Lara. That said I did enjoy both of the latest TR games.
I don't recall Lara Croft having ever been defined by anything more than her tits.
They took away the tits and thought that fixed the character. They forgot that she still needed a personality. She isn't a strong female character just because she isn't sexualized.
^Hit the nail on the head.
At least the gameplay's fantastic though.
I don't recall Lara Croft having ever been defined by anything more than her tits.
Chole>Lara. That said I did enjoy both of the latest TR games.
i honestly am kinda confused when i hear this kind of thing. I played the TR trilogy on PS1 and Crystal dynamics reboot trilogy, and i never once saw anything to Lara besides being a sassy british treasure hunter with skin deep dex appeal and botox lips
...and yet that is infinitely better than what we have right now. I'll take the sassy British sex symbol who's having fun with what she's doing rather than the petulant child who whines about and hates everything.
We aren't saying that classic Lara Croft is some amazingly well written character. She's a collection of tropes, but ones that are well done and enjoyable. We (or at least I) are saying that the Lara from ROTR is an absolute garbage character who drags down the game more than anything else.
Lara has always been bland. People just didn't notice before cause Giant Triangle Boobs.
I get that modern Lara is more divisive and many of those criticisms i feel are warranted, but she's also much younger than classic lara, and not supposed to be a self assured fully established character in the same way.
Have you ever been somewhere with a group and someone in that group really doesn't want to be there and not only complains constantly but also tries to drag down the experience for everyone else as a childish method of revenge? That's Lara from ROTR. She has no personality or character arc in this game. She may have had a misguided and poorly-handled character arc in the previous TR game, but at least she was a character. In ROTR, she's just a middle-finger pointed at the player the entire time. Like I said previously, this is the only game I've ever played where the protagonist was so terrible that I was skipping cutscenes after awhile, just because of how much I couldn't stand her.
This analogy would make sense if McClain/Willis doesn't act how he does. In 4 he is past weary bad dad and has become gleeful in doing what he does best. He delights in running over his opponents and then launching his car at a helicopter, because he's John fucking McClain. Pretty sure he even said something similar to Oliphant, the villain. In 5, the movie is about his son living in the shadow of such a man.You know what modern Lara Croft is? John McClane in Die Hards 4-6. At some point being gritty and down to Earth results in a shrill dissonance that makes the whole enterprise seem misguided.
Is Barney hide & seek the only other "action adventure" game that exists on Earth A?I am in Earth A, where the new Tomb Raider games are the platinum standard for modern action adventure games, and people like you must be on Earth B, where where the new Tomb Raider is bad.
Doesn't help that the voice acting sucks and Luddington can't do a convincing accent to save her life.
She is but has some strong American influence on her real accent that she instead sounds like an American trying to do an English accent.Isn't she British? I don't really understand why she'd have to use an accent to portray someone from her own country.
Well, current Lara is written by a woman.Still a better personality than Lightning (FFXIII) and Rey (Star Wars). Meh, it's still just a bunch of female characters written by dudes, methinks.
Completely agree. I don't know why people shit on Lara. I like how she is portrayed. I do agree that the surrounding characters would use some better lines but Lara herself does a great job. I'm hoping that she gets to play Lara herself in the movie.Connor isn't even solemn, he's just around people who treat him like shit, marginalize and use him, and don't respect his culture, they had an entire side quest dedicated to showing his character around people who don't do that.
The writing isn't even terrible, her progression as a fearful college student interested in archaelogy who's forced to survive and fight for her life
to determined woman who actively seeks adventure, doesn't take shit from anybody and is genuinely interested in learning the world's secrets makes complete sense.
just based on her body language, tone, and expressions alone.
That role is already taken by Alicia Vikander. I don't know how good she'll be, but rolling the dice is almost guaranteed to be better than Ludington.Completely agree. I don't know why people shit on Lara. I like how she is portrayed. I do agree that the surrounding characters would use some better lines but Lara herself does a great job. I'm hoping that she gets to play Lara herself in the movie.
You didn't enjoy exploring the lumber mill?Just finished ROTR, and I agree wholeheartedly.
The reboots take themselves WAY too seriously and there's just no sense of fun and adventure anymore.
Chloe feels like what Lara should be. She is a well-rounded female character, confident and adventurous, playful and sexy. She can be all those things and not be bland, weak or objectified.
I can appreciate what you're saying about the poor characterisation but let's not pretend they ruined the character, she's always been a rich, paper-thin toff who likes to collect old stuff but she used to have pointier tits and her face didn't move.Could they have written any less personality into this character? What a crushing bore this character has become. One facial expression, one tone, the same monotonous dialogue over and over. Combine that with a somewhat bizarre urge to throw herself into incredibly dangerous situations without any thought - a borderline psychopath with the most paper thin motivations for everything. The half a dozen polygons of classic Lara gave off a more varied set of emotions than the one we have now. I'm not sure I've cared any less for a protagonist and their motivations than I have for new Lara.
Not sure I understand, if a character isn't central to the plot they can't be well written? I mean you could probably replace nuLara with a cardboard cut out and the only thing that would change is the cut out might be more charismatic. So I don't really see that as much of a defends for Lara.Chloe is such a throw away character. She doesn't matter to the story at all and could be replaced by literally anyone. Especially since they dumped the tease in Uncharted 3 of Drake falling for her.
She is but has some strong American influence on her real accent that she instead sounds like an American trying to do an English accent.
Could they have written any less personality into this character? What a crushing bore this character has become. One facial expression, one tone, the same monotonous dialogue over and over. Combine that with a somewhat bizarre urge to throw herself into incredibly dangerous situations without any thought - a borderline psychopath with the most paper thin motivations for everything. The half a dozen polygons of classic Lara gave off a more varied set of emotions than the one we have now. I'm not sure I've cared any less for a protagonist and their motivations than I have for new Lara.
I can appreciate what you're saying about the poor characterisation but let's not pretend they ruined the character, she's always been a rich, paper-thin toff who likes to collect old stuff but she used to have pointier tits and her face didn't move.
Judging by both of the rebooted TR games, she is an awful writer. The characters are boring, the narrative is weak, and the whole atmosphere is just dreary, rather than exciting. The first one in particular feels like the script was knocked out over one weekend. It's the very example of how video game writing is mostly on a par, at best, to DTV movies. I liked her dad's stuff, though.Pratchett is definitely a bad writer. TR2013 had some truly bizarre moments, like Laura telling everyone where to go on their ship when she was just some grad student not the person bankrolling a damn ship, or meeting up with one of the wreck survivors and neglecting to tell her that she was nearly killed in a cave by murderers and that she saw one of them crushed to death.
Vikander seems a bit miscast to me, just because she's the current "hot" actress (I mean talent, not looks...) on the back of Ex Machina. Would have liked to see Emily Blunt in the role.That role is already taken by Alicia Vikander. I don't know how good she'll be, but rolling the dice is almost guaranteed to be better than Ludington.
One of the problems I had with Crystal's first games [starting with Legend in 2006] was it was about Lara searching for her mom... I eyerolled hard when they made this one [ROTTR] out to be her following in the footsteps of her dad...
The first reboot game wasn't quite as bad... With RotR it seems like the writers did not know what to do beyond coming up with the initial premise (prove daddy dearest wasn't a nut by finding the lost city/artifact)...
She specifically says at the beginning of the 1st game [TR2013] that she is looking for adventure, that's how she ended up in that mess. It was her own theories that took them all there.
In the 2nd game [ROTTR] she isn't exactly looking for adventure she is out to redeem her father...
Why does she need to be following in her father's footsteps or trying to find her missing mom, CD?
Classic Lara... had been disowned by her elitist aristocrat parents because she wanted to travel the globe and raid tombs rather than marry some wealthy high-society guy. She [had] many admirable qualities like independence, confidence, strength, intelligence...
...When Crystal Dynamics took over [with Legend in 2006, long before the reboot], for whatever reason, they decided Lara couldn't just WANT to be an adventurer. She needed something forcing her to do all this stuff. They changed her backstory so that her father was a famous adventurer, too, so she's just following in daddy's footsteps. And her reason for going on these adventures is because her mommy disappeared in the plane crash in the Himalayas and she wants to find her...
From a purely visual perspective, I completely agree that the re-imaginary was a much better and much more believable design that actually seemed realistic to various degrees. Before this visual reboot, it was pretty evident that Eidos back in the day took the character of Lara Croft and used her as a means to market the games with cheap titillation in order to appeal to straight boys / men with disposable income. (Sidenote: the character was originally supposed to be South-American, but Eidos decided against it and made her a White Brit instead). Yet, as evidenced in many different testimonies by girls and women (such as this research article, or Latoya Peterson & her documentary series on Girl Gamers), Lara Croft was an important character to them in their childhood despite of the obvious sexual objectification in marketing (this is not me condoning the sexual objectification, just nuancing how players use games to their own end).
Look at how popular she was at her height... People definitely liked the character, and not just because she was marketed as attractive...
There's no levity, which makes new Lara feel less human. All the shooting and killing that comes with a generic third person shooter like this then makes Lara seem even more psychotic. Nate kills a thousand dudes in each Uncharted game but his well-written wise-cracking and the franchise's T-rated tone makes all that action look a lot less gratuitous than it looks in reboot Tomb Raider. That's the other thing: CD shouldn't have gone with a hard M-rating.
...The only difference in her as a character, is that she can now murder people without crying about it...
She wasn't a character I felt was especially respectable, admirable, or even believable at times. By the end of it, it really came across (to me, at least) that her constant moaning, gasping and exasperation was a cheap way to try to get me to relate... I almost feel that the old Lara - while obviously designed in large part to be titillating - was more powerful, and someone I would have a little more respect for. She was filthy rich, dealt with crazy stuff totally fearlessly, and was a bit of a charming scoundrel type. New Lara just feels compromised...
If you're going to give us a super serious character, then we'll need a narrative context that actually supports that. We'll also probably need more [subdued] combat as well so the character isn't flip-flopping between relatively down to earth acrobatic archeologist and super hero serial murderer... Barring story and gameplay changes though, it's probably easier to just make Lara a quippy action hero. At least then, there would be internal consistency.
OG Laras characterisation was rich girl thrill seeker, which is certainly a tropey type of character, but not one you usually see in a contemporary setting being exemplified by the Amelia Earhart types of the 1930s. Modern Laura Craft is, you know, the female lead from every horror film ever, psychologically brute forced into being competent via trauma.
Classic Lara Croft is still one of the best game characters... Her passions, resources, and abilities are ones that are fun to (pretend to) have. It's unfortunate that a lot of people can only see her as an object. I don't think it is specifically lacking vulnerability that makes her so great, it's that she is the kind of person who sets up a huge obstacle course to practice on. That's just awesome, and shows how much she enjoys what she does. With that as a foundation there is still room for fear or vulnerability...
...I enjoy [the] old Lara... Sassing everyone she crosses but always classy about it. Keeping her cool in a bad situation and using her own skill and wit to overcome any obstacle. If she got trapped, she made her own way out and was just a more fun character to play as.
I really preferred the version of Lara that had her shit together. Confident, competent, and always felt like she was powerful even when facing ridiculous odds. It also felt like she was a smarter character, but that's probably just a result of the gameplay being more puzzle focused in the other games.
That was fine for the reboot, but even in that there were some hints of smug arrogance coming back (mostly when murdering dudes, but still). RotTR feels largely joyless to me as far as her character. No flirting really, no fun, no cracking some humor (even dark or sarcastic humor), no confidence. It's weird... the rather straightforward and uninspired writing of her fails...
I'd prefer if we kept the character model of Lara we have now but have the character of original Lara. Nu-Lara is just too inconsistently characterised to be worth rooting for... Take Rhianna Pratchett off and bring in Cara Ellison, imo [thread].
I just want classic Tomb Raider back focused on ruins, exploration, and puzzles.
Right now it's just a bad copy of Uncharted and it's sad because I really love the franchise and this reboot is not working for me.
I don't care about catchy dialogue every 10 steps or fighting soldiers in every room. I just want to get lost inside immense ruins with a lot of traps and puzzles to uncover, enigmatic stories to find and no one else but me in there to help.