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[SamVimes]

And?

...and the tournament scene is bigger than ever?

 

[Jdez15]

I bought this game brand new, and then traded it in about a month after purchase. I wish I would have kept it.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Tekken 5 DRO had lobbies and let you watch while you wait for your match. I never played it, but I'm pretty sure Doa 4 had something similar too.

I don't deny that they didn't exist before, it just didn't become a "standard" until last year. The bigger branded games set what the expectations are. MK is a big enough brand to do that. Blazblue isn't going to get Capcom to bulge.

 

[Granger Danger]

none of the downloadable ones really interest me.

All 3 in-universe ones (Skarlet, Kenshi, Rain) are absolutely brilliant and wonderfully unique, and who can resist Freddy?

 

[bathala]

now how about that movie remake

 

[TreIII]

I don't think there was any real expectation or standard. Spectator mode and online lobbies didn't become a "standard" until last year (because of SSFIV).

What I was talking about was relating to the SP content that you prior post had hinted at. SP content became truly something that was more of standard in fighting game releases, when Capcom and Namco both did a lot to make it a convention in their games, years ago.

If not either of those earlier games that I mentioned, then certainly by Soulcalibur (DC). And that, is basically what the mainstream wants to see in fighting game releases now. If it doesn't, you'll start hearing the "this is lacking in content" complaints.

Don't worry. Capcom's well on its way to stopping that with their constant rereleases. I just hope SNK doesn't get caught in the crossfire.

I dunno. The way I see it, history will repeat itself for Capcom, much like it did back before the year 2000: Capcom blows its load with releasing too many of its fighting games/fighting game iterations, exhausting its fanbase and appeal. Meanwhile, the likes of Namco's fighting games and MK basically are doing just fine, all while SNK and ASW will likely enjoy the niche appeal they've always had.

If anything, the main thing I'm hoping is that the supposed people who are supposedly getting pissed off at Capcom's antics will actually go out and see for themselves that there is plenty more out there to play. Ten years ago, people had a decent excuse, because most of everything else was only available through getting in on the import PS2 game (which required actually modding your machine). That much doesn't apply anymore. If you're complaining about not having ANYTHING to play, you're just not looking hard enough. :lol

 

[Rahxephon91]

Tekken 5 DRO had lobbies and let you watch while you wait for your match. I never played it, but I'm pretty sure Doa 4 had something similar too.

Dead or Alive Ultimate on the Xbox had lobbies and spectator mode. Dead or Alive, truly the most progressive fighter.

 

[Anticitizen One]

Though regarding sales, it should be kept in mind that:

Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe = 2.5 million = (around)24 months
Mortal Kombat (2011) = 3.0 million = 4 months [1.5 million in the US alone]

But yeah, the thing with MK is that it has never sold "bad"; excluding Special Forces since even Mythologies did over a million back then. For many this is the "return of fighters"; yet the only difference with last gen is that Capcom (in some ways) returned with new sequels to Street Figther and Marvel vs Capcom.

Last gen, we had the Guilty Gears and Virtua Figther 4 been the "niche fighters", this gen we have BlazBlue and Virtau Fighters 5.

Last gen there was 3 main Tekken games (and updates to Tekken 5); this gen Tekken 6...all selling millions.

Last gen MK games were selling millions, this gen..the same.

SoulCalibur II and III last gen selling millions, SoulCalibur IV doing the same (and V soon).

Japan still got Virtua Figther and Tekken tournaments while Street Fighter was taking a rest. Mortal Kombat topped charts and sold millions in the US while no Street Figther game was in the horizon. More than "figthers going away and now making a return", it was Capcom the one that left and realized that if they actually put efforts into their fighting games; the games would be great and well received; after years of "where my MvC3 Crapcom, where's my SFIV; stop the ports!!"..

The difference is that last gen all the fighters sucked. This gen there actually good

 

[Rahxephon91]

The difference is that last gen all the fighters sucked. This gen there actually good

Um no..

Are you insane?

 

[ScOULaris]

The difference is that last gen all the fighters sucked. This gen there actually good

No, the difference is that there is more competition these days because of decent online play.

 

[Nome]

Street Fighter IV: 3.1 Million
Super Street Fighter IV: 1.6 Million

I see.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

What I was talking about was relating to the SP content that you prior post had hinted at. SP content became truly something that was more of standard in fighting game releases, when Capcom and Namco both did a lot to make it a convention in their games, years ago.

If not either of those earlier games that I mentioned, then certainly by Soulcalibur (DC). And that, is basically what the mainstream wants to see in fighting game releases now. If it doesn't, you'll start hearing the "this is lacking in content" complaints.

I'm just thinking that if, SFIV were released today, it would get that criticism. Someone here said that Tekken 5 DRO had lobbies, VF4 had awesome tutorials that are still to this day unmatched....but no one really batted an eye to that. As far as expectations go, the only ones who are really setting them are Capcom and NRS.

Um no..

Are you insane?

Fighting against the CPU is important mayne.

 

[SamVimes]

Anyway when people talk about a revival they're talking about 2d fighting games.

 

[Game Guru]

Well I suppose a full, complete revival would include those 3 elements:
1) A good flow of new games;
2) A return to form for the old games — this is what's happening here;
3) Popularity (i.e. word-of-mouth and sales)

Actually, I think it's mostly down to popularity. Developers still make shmups to this day, and some of them were highly-praised (Ikaruga, Gradius V) but it's still no revival. No one would say there was a shmup revival beyond the very subjective view that they just happened to buy and enjoy those games at the time.

This is why I'm not exactly sure we have a full revival of fighting games. I think SF is halfway there (how fitting, as it sold 50% less than SF2), and I think MK has managed an incredible comeback. I'd say the same for 2D platform games: 2D Mario sells even more popular now than before — can you even picture that? I can hardly —, and I'm sure Rayman Origins will be fun and actually has a shot at selling within Ubisoft's expectations (provided they're not ludicrously high, this is still "only" Rayman), but nearly all the other releases from Nintendo and third parties have been anecdotal or performed well enough but were no shocker either (see the Kirby games). Bring back Sonic, Castlevania and Mega Man in full force on home consoles (not retro revivals for a handful of dollars on digital platforms) with great success among other new successful platform games and then we'll talk. I can only think of Drawn to Life and Scribblenauts, but DTL wasn't some kind of mini-phenomenon, and Scribblenauts is really a puzzle game in disguise. Same for A Boy and his Blob (which bombed anyway) and Wario Land Shake Dimension.

You know, you dismiss the digital platforms, but by dismissing them, you miss a part of the picture. The picture is that physical retail has gotten to the point where only the AAA games will sell in a genre. New Super Mario Bros. sells well, but he's also the AAA platformer franchise. Once you include digital sales into it, platformers have had a revival. There are new games like Super Meat Boy, Cave Story, 'Splosion Man, and Braid. Outside of maybe Bubsy and Sonic, every classic 2D platformer franchise has returned in some way, either as a disc or a digital download. The genre has also regained some of its popularity as well.

I'd say that all the genres are established to the point of having a genre king at this point, even the Open-World Sandbox (Grand Theft Auto), Third-Person Shooter (Gears of War), First-Person Shooters (Halo and Call of Duty), and God of War Clones (err... God of War). The console cycle exists not only to improve console technology, but to also give a chance for new franchises to flourish in an environment without the genre kings, and we are up to that point right now.

 

[kitzkozan]

The difference is that last gen all the fighters sucked. This gen there actually good

Nah, but some of them did stink. Tekken 4 and 5 weren't the best in the series, especially from a competitive standpoint. Guilty Gear is superior to Blazblue imo and VF 4 performed better than 5 commercially. MK sucked ass in those years yes, but we are talking about a franchise which was seen as a joke for well over a decade. KOF was and still is niche so it will continue to focus on it's own market.

The biggest difference was Capcom being absent and that left a huge gap in the FG landscape.

 

[Busaiku]

The biggest difference was Capcom being absent and that left a huge gap in the FG landscape.

Capcom wasn't absent, they released tons more fighters last gen than this gen.

 

[sleepykyo]

...and the tournament scene is bigger than ever?

Which only supports my post regarding how the fighting game revival is more a reference of the US 2d offline scene than anything else.

 

[Kilrogg]

You know, you dismiss the digital platforms, but by dismissing them, you miss a part of the picture. The picture is that physical retail has gotten to the point where only the AAA games will sell in a genre. New Super Mario Bros. sells well, but he's also the AAA platformer franchise. Once you include digital sales into it, platformers have had a revival. There are new games like Super Meat Boy, Cave Story, 'Splosion Man, and Braid. Outside of maybe Bubsy and Sonic, every classic 2D platformer franchise has returned in some way, either as a disc or a digital download. The genre has also regained some of its popularity as well.

I'd say that all the genres are established to the point of having a genre king at this point, even the Open-World Sandbox (Grand Theft Auto), Third-Person Shooter (Gears of War), First-Person Shooters (Halo and Call of Duty), and God of War Clones (err... God of War). The console cycle exists not only to improve console technology, but to also give a chance for new franchises to flourish in an environment without the genre kings, and we are up to that point right now.

I usually don't include digital platforms in that kind of argument for 3 reasons:
1) They don't generate the same amount of sales as retail and/or we don't have all that much data to go from (sadly);
2) Beyond sales, I care about popularity as a factor, and by that I mean "does the game make new players". Sure, I don't have any data, but I'd be very surprised if stuff like Splosion' Man, Braid, Cave Story, Limbo or even the beloved Super Meat Boy have that kind of appeal. Granted, few have, but there's gotta be some middle ground;
3) Most developers treat them as places for experiments and byte-sized games (with some notable exceptions such as Super Meat Boy, granted). I can't say there's a "genre revival" when no-one is interested/is willing/can sell a full retail game at $30+. Plus, to take your examples, Cave Story is a Metroid-Like, and Braid more of a sidescrolling puzzler. On that note, many of the platform games I see on digital platforms (well, many of the most prominent, at least) are of that "puzzle game" flavor as opposed to oldschool arcade platformers like Mario, Sonic, Mega Man and the like.

I mean come on, again, if sheer number is all we care about, then the goddamn shmup genre not only has never been dead, but is basically king of the hill. If we're using the word "revival", let's not use it lightly. If there's pretty much one game that sells really well and the rest sells poorly and/or at very low pricepoints (often free if we're talking PC indie) with little ambition, there's no revival. There just is a safe business model.

Having genre kings doesn't mean others can't succeed. It shouldn't even excuse their failures. The FPS has Call of Duty and Halo, but many other games were and are still successful (many bomb too, but that happens a lot even within popular genres).

I say it's a bit too early to say we have a complete 2D fighting genre revival. MK is there, SF4 is almost there, and Smash Bros. hasn't so much revived the genre as it has renewed it. Of all the genres that are candidates for a complete revival soon, I'd say fighting games and platform games are the most likely to be it. The former because several companies have already made competent efforts in that direction, the latter because the genre itself is extremely accessible, popular, cheap to make and spearheaded by the strongest game series to ever grace the market. Unfortunately, this is only potential. SEGA doesn't get it still but might someday (Sonic Generations shows they're slowly starting to get there, but not quite), Capcom has killed off Mega Man because they're idiots who'd rather make tons of unappealing spin-offs only to cancel them later — yes, I'm bitter —, Konami has killed off 2D Castlevania, Ubisoft, well, crossing fingers for Rayman Origins, and Nintendo, I don't know. I want to say they get it, but when I see no NSMB sequel on the 3DS and what looks like a very lazy — but admittedly early, there's still hope — sequel on Wii U I'm not so sure any more. Kinda pessimistic at the moment to be honest.

[EDIT] One thing I forgot: AAA isn't supposed to be a measure of popularity or brand recognition but a measure of budget. Saying that NSMB Wii is the AAA platformer is wrong because its production values are not only far below that of AAA games in other genres, they're lower than its current main competitors too (mainly Little Big Planet if we're talking retail)! NSMB doesn't sell based on budget, and the idea that other platformers couldn't sell just because SMB sells really well is absurd at best. When a game comes out of nowhere and creates/revitalizes a genre, it usually creates tons of offshoots from competitors. Many bomb, many do decent numbers, and some become really successful. In genres that are not budget-dependent at all like platformers, it should be even easier to achieve moderate success. If people rush out to buy and play a game, chances are they're gonna want more of that type of experience. The truth is, nobody is willing to make 2D platforming games at $30+ a piece except Ubisoft (and really, Ancel) right now, and those who tried put out stuff that nobody wanted in the first place (A Boy and his Blob), and that's why there's no revival at all. Why, platformers aren't worth more than 10 bucks, haven't you heard?

 

[alstein]

No, the difference is that there is more competition these days because of decent online play.

Most of the last gen fighters were very imbalanced. This gen patching and competition has mostly helped. This is another reason why I think 3SO will flop competitively- 2000-era balance is unacceptable in 2011.

Now whether the gameplay is better now or then- is subjective.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Most of the last gen fighters were very imbalanced. This gen patching and competition has mostly helped. This is another reason why I think 3SO will flop competitively- 2000-era balance is unacceptable in 2011.

Now whether the gameplay is better now or then- is subjective.

Funny you say that since the same hardcore scrutiny that goes to all the effort to determine those balance issues, is also related to the same people who criticize which game is better.

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

I think this is appropriate

"Flawless Victory!"

 

[SolarPowered]

Mahvel sold just about what I've estimated. MK sold even better than I thought.

Kudos to the MK team.

 

[Nirolak]

What other old Midway IP's does Warner own?

I think they own their entire library except NBA Jam and NFL Blitz.

For the record, Brawl has shipped 10.27 million as of March.

Thanks.

 

[Seda]

WB announced that it has now actually passed 3 million. Not much else, though.

Mortal Kombat Sells Over Three Million Units Worldwide

Latest Release from Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment is the Most Successful Console Game for the Iconic Franchise
September 15, 2011 10:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time

BURBANK, Calif.--(EON: Enhanced Online News)--Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment today announces Mortal Kombat, the latest iteration of the legendary fighting franchise, has sold over three million units worldwide, making it the highest-selling fighting game this year.

“We are very pleased with the success of Mortal Kombat, as it surpassed our expectations in becoming the #1 fighting game in North America released so far this year”

Mortal Kombat, developed by NetherRealm Studios, led by Mortal Kombat creator and creative director Ed Boon, launched on PlayStation®3 computer entertainment system and Xbox 360® video game and entertainment system from Microsoft in April 2011. In addition to the full game available at retail, downloadable content (DLC) has been released for the game offering four warriors, including the return of fan favorites Skarlet, Kenshi and Rain and an all-new competitor in the coliseum - legendary dream stalker Freddy Krueger - who now features two vicious bladed gloves. Each DLC character comes with his or her own move set, arcade ladder story ending, and two deadly fatalities.

“We are very pleased with the success of Mortal Kombat, as it surpassed our expectations in becoming the #1 fighting game in North America released so far this year,” said Martin Tremblay, President, Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment. “NetherRealm Studios delivered a high quality game which has exceeded our sales goals. We'd like to thank our entire team and all of our partners for their innovative campaigns and tremendous support of Mortal Kombat, as the game sales continue to grow."

“All of us at NetherRealm Studios are very excited that players have embraced Mortal Kombat. The game was a labor of love for us and we could not be more pleased with its performance,” said Ed Boon, Creative Director, NetherRealm Studios. “Fan reaction to this latest installment has made all of our hard work worth it.”

Mortal Kombat is a triumphant return to the game’s original mature presentation offering over-the-top fatalities and cringe-worthy X-ray moves. Going back to a 2D fighting plane, this latest iteration in the franchise introduces a number of new game-play features including Tag Team, Challenge Tower, and a deep story mode. Players can choose from an extensive lineup of the game’s iconic warriors and challenge their friends in traditional 1 vs. 1 matches, or take on several players in the new online King of the Hill mode.

The legendary fighting game is now available in North America for $59.99 on the PlayStation®3 computer entertainment system and Xbox 360.

For more information about Mortal Kombat, please visit www.themortalkombat.com, on Facebook at www.facebook.com/mortalkombat or on Twitter @MK_Mortalkombat

About Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment
...

 

[Discotheque]

That's good news. Other fighters should take notes from MK content-wise...sadly they won't.

 

[Neki]

That's good news. Other fighters should take notes from MK content-wise...sadly they won't.

MK should take notes from other fighters on how to build a fighting game engine.

 

[.la1n]

Namco had a fairly ungodly ability to channel stuff until recently.

I fell for it's sub par Tekken 6. I'll be wary of their Tekken Tag efforts.

 

[Discotheque]

MK should take notes from other fighters on how to build a fighting game engine.

yeah for real, fighting in the game sucks. But still imagine if MvC3 had all the content that this one had, considering it's characters lend itself towards a lot of story and bonus stuff for fans

Capcom fighters are so barebones.

 

[corporate cheerleader]

MK should take notes from other fighters on how to build a fighting game engine.

Ouch. Oooouuuch...

 

[Kimosabae]

MK should take notes from other fighters on how to build a fighting game engine that reminds me of Capcom fighters. At least a little bit!

I have Stockholm Syndrome.

Fixed.

*edit*

 

[sixteen-bit]

MK should take notes from other fighters on how to build a fighting game engine.

yo ugh

'grats to Netherrealm though

 

[notworksafe]

The difference is that last gen all the fighters sucked. This gen there actually good

Well last gen had the best fighter of all time, CvS2, so you are crazy sir.

Plus Guilty Gear XX, Tekken Tag, 3S, Mahvel 2, KOF 2002UM, SoulCal2, and more I can't remember. Last gen was home to some of the best fighting games of all time.

 

[SolarPowered]

Fixed.

*edit*

This made me laugh.

Well last gen had the best fighter of all time, CvS2, so you are crazy sir.

Plus Guilty Gear XX, Tekken Tag, 3S, Mahvel 2, KOF 2002UM, SoulCal2, and more I can't remember. Last gen was home to some of the best fighting games of all time.

You forgot Smash Bros. Melee.

Yeah...last gen was more well rounded. I'd say it had better fighters too, but things are looking up since we might get a new Guilty Gear and Skullgirls which will complement MvC3 and BlazBlue very nicely.