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Mother who fled UK for Syria (and IS) with five children 'wants to come home'
- Thread starter Miles Quaritch
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Is she a violent criminal? Or did she just support violent people. Cause there is a big difference in treatment between violent and non violent criminals.
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
Well we have no idea what she got up to while there, all we have is her word that she was teaching english to the kids. Could have been up to anything.
This, the youngest child is only one.
I'm sure at two months old the kid decided to go to Syria and when they grow up they want to destroy the west.
She was dragged out their by her husband who went to join Isis, and she wanted him to come home. Now she is stuck over there. How could you call her a terrorist when she is teaching English to children, is having bombs going off around her, and wants to return to her home in the UK. She would clearly fleeing as a refuge.
How in the world did you surmise that total non-sequitur from what I said? Even worse your rhetorical question is astoundingly patronizing to the people you think you're defending. You act as if the media is some irrevocable truth and would be taken without salt by anyone that can read and think. We have radical Islamists in the UK proselytizing their communities and protesting that sharia law is an imperative to institute in the west. We have young muslims who are trying to understand their world who leave the country for entirely religious reasons despite what the western media tries to tell you. There are obvious cognitive dissonances involved when people make drastic changes in their life to seek out spirituality and to grow their faith. So much of being human is trying to ground yourself in a world of conflicting beliefs, the turbulence surrounding one's faith is always greater for minorities. This is especially true for Muslims in Europe during this time in history. And I'm clearly not talking about every Muslim in the west, nor every Muslim abroad. I'm arguing for the people that truly see the err of going abroad, that truly wish to repatriate. Especially those who never engage in terrorist activities but merely became victims upon arrival in the Islamic Caliphate of the Northern Levant.
Why would we want to be vain and callous to these people when we have radicals living in the UK who are arguing for an Islamic state very much like the one ISIL is trying to bring about. When leaders such as that are influencing the youth. Why would we lump in all Muslims together when we could instead help those that are refugees and who have rectified there cognitive dissonance and desire to take part on western society.
Which is why they should bring her back and glean any and all information from her. I rather make judgments based on facts, especially when we're considering letting innocent children just become another rounding error in human suffering.
Yeah maybe she built ISIS a nuclear device with one hand while beheading Christian children with the other. We don't know!
Do you really think there's any chance that British intelligence doesn't question and thoroughly vet her on her return?
I've always found it odd, the idea of rejecting people that want to come back. Take them back, lock them up, and get info, though I dunno if she actually knows much.
As for the kids, they probably had no say and should be allowed to return (they obviously won't be staying with mom anymore).
As for the kids, they probably had no say and should be allowed to return (they obviously won't be staying with mom anymore).
Conspiracy/accessory to a violent crime still lands you in adult prison, at least in the US. And assuming you don't believe her story about going over there to get her husband to come home, she had at least some level of acceptance of ISIS' actions/ideology even before she arrived there.
But that doesn't really have anything to do with what I said about mental treatment, however.
I can't tell if you're purposefully being stupid, or just being ignorant. I suppose in this case stupidity and ignorance are one and the same.
If she really loves her kids and is repentant she should offer the British government a deal:
"I acknowledge what I did was wrong and unforgivable but please don't hold that against my children. Let them return to the UK and I will stay here and face whatever may come."
We don't let other criminals off the hook just because they have kids.
"I acknowledge what I did was wrong and unforgivable but please don't hold that against my children. Let them return to the UK and I will stay here and face whatever may come."
We don't let other criminals off the hook just because they have kids.
yes. I get a strong feeling they don't care about what intel she can provide, and really just want to use the imagery of this case.
I get the feeling she just wanted her family to be together, and bought the lies of the ISIS fighters that their territories really are nice places to live, and it's just a matter of time before all of this is over.
ChamplooJones
Formerly Momotaro
Why the hell would you bring your kids into ISIS territory for any goddamn reason? I feel sorry for the kids because this is fuckery on another level.
Miles Quaritch
Member
We also tend to try and jail criminals and not leave them to die at the hands of fanatics.
speculawyer
Member
Seems fair.
speculawyer
Member
She is not being left to die. She is being left where she freely chose to go and she would be avoiding criminal punishment.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Where she will be killed by IS should they ever find her.
She wants to return and in doing so is open to facing criminal punishment.
speculawyer
Member
I'm not convinced they will kill her. And even if that is the case, she chose that path. I don't see why another state should spend their resources on extracting someone, trying them, and imprisoning them. People should not be given the thought that if they ignore Britain's travel warnings, the UK will just bail them out.
I'm sorry but sometimes in life you make poor life choices.
You have to live by them, the issue here is that even if they were all allowed back they'd then be put under heavily surveillance for a very very long time
as they'd be deemed all as massive threats, also she openly went to IS, she should not expect us to openly let her back into the country.
You have to live by them, the issue here is that even if they were all allowed back they'd then be put under heavily surveillance for a very very long time
as they'd be deemed all as massive threats, also she openly went to IS, she should not expect us to openly let her back into the country.
All of your posts in this thread proceed from emotion and don't offer any evidence or explication or insight. I guess it's cool to insult me, go for it. But you haven't really demonstrated a single one of your claims in this thread and all your assumptions are just telling us more about you than they are about this woman and her family.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Why not? She's a British national. It's the duty of our country to bring her back and try her under our criminal justice system.
The argument of resources is moot. We could argue that we won't investigate all manner of crime to not waste precious resources, but we don't because we're a nation of laws and those laws have to be enforced.
British national so fucking what. She isn't British and she rejected being British by joining Isis. She is Somalian, I'd support her return there and her kids back in the UK, but she doesn't deserve to be allowed back to the UK. Considering this and the fact she has 5 young kids, I doubt she even worked. So I wouldn't want her back just so she can sit on her ass at the tax payers expense.
Nah if this was WW2 and some blond-haired blue-eyed Nazi apologist decided to upsticks with her family to help put Jews in ovens. If she finds herself getting an early morning wake up call from RAF bombers I wouldn't have too much sympathy for her if she decided to return home when she discovered the Nazi were pricks. Seriously:
If the UK was at war with Islamic fundamentalists and some Islamic fundamentalist decided to upsticks with her family to help throw gay people of buildings, sell women into sexual slavery etc. If she finds herself getting an early morning wake up call from RAF bombers I wouldn't have too much sympathy for her if she decided to return home when she discoveres that ISIS are pricks.
She seems remorseful about the whole thing and it would be a shame if her children were to suffer as a result of her mistake.
She'll be repatriated eventually, but she should remain under watch, otherwise she might drag her kids into another mess.
She'll be repatriated, since I doubt the UK would want those 5 kids to suffer on her behalf.
If Begum does get a second shot, I sincerely hope she never pulls a stunt like this again.
She'll be repatriated eventually, but she should remain under watch, otherwise she might drag her kids into another mess.
She'll be repatriated, since I doubt the UK would want those 5 kids to suffer on her behalf.
If Begum does get a second shot, I sincerely hope she never pulls a stunt like this again.
Miles Quaritch
Member
She's British.
She spent most of her life here no? Being born in Somalia doesn't mean much if she spent her life here, grew up here, etc.
We'll see. I don't hold much hope on them actively trying to bring her back.
Miles Quaritch
Member
But can the children support themselves? We don't want leeches coming in, suckling off ouu sacred and limited resources teat!!!!!
And we should only let the one year old in. He's the only one who can be trusted not to blow something up.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
You think minorities trust the media?
Woo, this thread is like America lite. Why don't you guys start building more prisons and churches?
uncredited male
Member
I don't trust the one-year-old. Could have been radicalized.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Probably has a bomb in the diaper.
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
I didn't say that, but we don't know what she did. That whole teaching english to kids thing sounds like bull to me.
What else do you think women are doing in ISIL camps? Cooking, cleaning, taking care of kids.
It's not about whether a child's mother loves them enough, it's the fact they are a british children in danger. We're not in 1000bc times here, our justice system has gone further than the Judgement of Solomon. The lives of british kids should not be left up to the decision of their potentially unstable mother, the only humane path of action would be getting them back on our shores. If it means taking the mother back too then we can deal with her using our justice system.
brisk tacos
Banned
I tend to agree, as harsh as it is on those kids. Although that path could lead them down to radicalization themselves. There really is no good option in a situation like this. The only way to fix it is to get rid of radical Islam, and it's hard to get rid of radical anything.
Go on, divulge me, what do my posts tell you about me? That I'm a man who loves his country? That I'm a citizen of the United Kingdom who believes a traitor should be exiled completely? That I'm just your Average Joe who isn't particularly keen on being blown up by a woman who betrayed her country?
The underlying thing here is really the question "what crimes did she commit". I think taking the kids with her to Syria, regardless her intentions or her understanding of ISIS, constitutes clear child endangerment. Beyond that though, how can we even say she "joined" ISIS, as in treason? If we take her word for things, she was captured / impressed
by ISIS and coerced under threat of death.
She lived in a town, not a camp. It's not like she was marching forth with the army.
I wonder how a town like that operates. How does she end up teaching children? Do actual ISIS members (like people on the org chart) command her to teach English? Or is that just like the only job she can get so she can put food on the table?
(as in "impressment", not as in "appreciative awe")
She lived in a town, not a camp. It's not like she was marching forth with the army.
I wonder how a town like that operates. How does she end up teaching children? Do actual ISIS members (like people on the org chart) command her to teach English? Or is that just like the only job she can get so she can put food on the table?
Miles Quaritch
Member
This is all driven by an emotional response that is clouding your judgement.
She isn't going to blow you up. She hasn't betrayed the country. She's not a traitor.
dream
Member
That requires us to believe her story though. I think her deciding that ISIS "isn't Islam" after being bombed is really telling.
She left the country to apparently locate and bring her husband back. If that were true, why did she take the kids?
Miles Quaritch
Member
That's a fair point, but it could also be seen as the straw that broke the camel's back and she'd be wanting to or thinking about leaving for some time before this and just needed that extra push?
By allowing her back, she'd obviously face any criminal charges and would likely lose custody of her kids, but to say she's guaranteed to blow people up is an extraordinary leap of logic.
She's stupid? She's lying and waned to join her husband. Going out to join her husband doesn't mean she's a traitor or that she betrayed her country nor does it mean she wants to blow people up if she's allowed to return.
Seeing as we're all just throwing around various suspicions and guesses, i'll have a punt. I'm going to guess that if there was ever a thing that could make me doubt my life choices and beliefs, being bombed would be it.
I think someones been reading too many tabloid newspapers. You're practically using playground logic.
The underlying thing here is really the question "what crimes did she commit". I think taking the kids with her to Syria, regardless her intentions or her understanding of ISIS, constitutes clear child endangerment. Beyond that though, how can we even say she "joined" ISIS, as in treason? If we take her word for things, she was captured / impressedby ISIS and coerced under threat of death.(as in "impressment", not as in "appreciative awe")
She lived in a town, not a camp. It's not like she was marching forth with the army.
I wonder how a town like that operates. How does she end up teaching children? Do actual ISIS members (like people on the org chart) command her to teach English? Or is that just like the only job she can get so she can put food on the table?
She was living with ISIS commanders who got blown up by an airstrike, so it wasn't like she was just a random civilian getting by in an ISIS-controlled city.
You can't just put your kids in storage and come back 6 months later to pick them up
Mercury Fred
Banned
I wonder how many people's lives ended due in part to her involvement with these monsters.
No sympathy for the mother. Zero. Send the kids back, get them a decent home and therapy but whatever happens to her, well, that's what happens.
No sympathy for the mother. Zero. Send the kids back, get them a decent home and therapy but whatever happens to her, well, that's what happens.
Even your mangling of job is perfect here.
I've never been a fan of women who date and go as far as to marry criminals but they get a big pass among people. Isis is clearly the worst of the worse but I wonder how many people decrying Isis wives give a pass to mobster wives.
Secondly, it does make sense to keep a family together especially if you were dependent on the husband in the first place. It would be interesting to know if this family before he left had a breadwinner model.
Lastly, the state is notoriously bad at raising children and should only be used as a last resort. If she committed crimes against the state then separate them. If she hasn't then escalating all the way to foster care should be reconsidered. The state can monitor er family while she is raising them.
although true, probably safer than you know, taking them to a war zone.
Not to mention that the entire plan is flawed anyway. If she had convinced her husband to come back she'd still be in exact same position as now. That she brought the family over to live there seems more likely.
Family? Friends? Or even put them in a care home/hostel while she flies to Syria to 'bring back' her husband? No, sorry, I believe this woman had every intention of joining IS, and would even enrol her children at a later date. Keeping her and her family out of the UK is better for everyone.
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