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[Kimawolf]

Gamers are weird. You have an entire 70 pages dedicated to the FPS drop or resolution differences but then you say well get a PC, and suddenly they turn to casual videogame fans. "Ah naw man thsts too tough, complicated, expensive etc." Your consoles are not hardcore gaming devices anymore.

And this industry is too young and as such every forum or dicussion goes the same way for 80 pages. Thats the problem, most videogame forums are more hardcore and choose something they KNOW will be inferior. And since this industry is so young there are no real casual game forums or blogs like for movies. All you have is Neogaf and its million imitators all screaming the same thing.

 

[antitrop]

I'm getting really tired of folks caring about how much I care about game performance.

I second this. I don't understand why so many in the press feel the constant need to downplay relevant topical discussions.

They should be writing stories about why the technical aspects of video games do matter, rather than why they don't.

 

[FaintColt388301]

I think this whole it takes of from the story and what really matters talk is silly. It really doesn't. Look at TLOU. People talk about all its various technical problems all the time but it doesn't take away from it's story. The story is fantastic and there have been in depth discussions about it. It's framerate was discussed and so was its story. They can both be discussed without one taking away from the other.

It matters to us in COD and TR and all these other games because there are deeper implications behind them. It makes a statement about the machines they are running on, their value, power, and just which one will have the capabilities to produce better work. It's a big purchase for a lot of people and it is important to point things out that demonstrate which company has the more quality product.

Stop trying telling us these things don't matter. They do

 

[Sotha_Sil]

While I agree with the premise that resolution and framerate are minor parts of what make a game good or bad (unless they're blatantly poor), when talking about games releasing on both platforms, it's really the only discussion to have.

 

[Vilam]

Wish the article had started with the rape culture slant so that I didn't waste time reading it. I feel the same about his line of journalism as he apparently feels about resolutions and framerates.

 

[RooMHM]

The press is against the gamers. Just another proof. Go lick the major editors and publishers asses to get money thanks to ads and "exclusives"...

 

[Lunar15]

All internet communities do this, not just gaming.

Remember when the Hobbit came out at 48fps? Yeah, that was a thing.

Remember when CNN/Fox covered asinine topics in order to fill up a 24 hour news channel? It's not new: It's just the nature of having a long news cycle.

 

[commedieu]

While I agree with the premise that resolution and framerate are minor parts of what make a game good or bad (unless they're blatantly poor), when talking about games releasing on both platforms, it's really the only discussion to have.

I really wondered what's changed. The media highlighted every shoddy ps3 port. Every small issue. Sony was doomed, remember? Now.. none of that matters to certain gaf, and definitely media in general.

Hmm wonder what it is.

 

[Dr.Acula]

I'm not saying that we should ignore stories about how gaming technology like, say, the Oculus Rift is pushing the medium in new and exciting directions. But does a slightly faster frame rate or denser resolution say much of anything about the role of video games in society today? It's time that game critics started separating out the signal from the noise.

Such spin. A 100% increase in frame rate, or a >100% increase in resolution are not slight.

If the diff is 30 or 60 fps, or 720p or 1080p, those are the scales we're talking about. The Wii got slammed so hard last gen because of resolution, but XBone skates? Please.

I don't even get why "journalists" are upset that people notice qualitative differences in media. Yeah, the Hobbit looked different because it was different. Avatar looked different because it was different. Cross platform/generation games will look different. Most people don't care. Most people don't know. That's why they're buying your magazines and giving your website impressions. To get the real info from experts.

The biggest resolutiongate was that GAF thread where people were counting pixels and finding out things were being upscaled to 1080p and the reviews/previews got it wrong. Anyone have the link to that one?

I really wondered what's changed. The media highlighted every shoddy ps3 port. Every small issue. Sony was doomed, remember? Now.. none of that matters to certain gaf, and definitely media in general.

Hmm wonder what it is.

Good point. Some of the differences were so minor. But please, let me know if there's literally twice as many pixels of resolution, I don't care about a slightly different shadow casting algorithm.

 

[Neuromancer]

I can see how someone might argue that video games are less respected than movies or other forms of media. (I don't know why they'd bother, but supposing they wanted to, they could do it.) But there are many, better reasons why that might be beyond message board posters squabbling over specs.

 

[JBourne]

I don't care about thing.

Stop caring about thing, people who care.

 

[Tom_Cody]

Actually, I think it's a bit more relative privation than strawmanning. They're not really misrepresenting the position of the gamer who cares about framerates and resolutions; rather, they are arguing that these things don't matter because there are all these other things that really matter more. And that you suck for wanting to major in the minors.

I don't disagree with this.

Maybe strawmanning wasn't the perfect term but what I meant was simply that the writer focused on one part of the story and ignored that a large percentage of the posts have to do with combating misleading marketing and PR. You actually did a great job of explaining what I was trying to say in another post in this thread:

No they aren't. And generally, surface discussions about resolution, framerates, and features are only prolonged in so much as they are struggled against by apologists and PR spin doctors. If it had simply been an accepted fact that the One could not and would not match the power of the PS4 and if their PR team had not tried to twist the story around to fool the gullible into believing there would be more parity, we wouldn't have 3,000 post threads about resolutions for new games as they come out.

Also, there are no shortage of substantive topics about this and every other game that comes out. Nobody would suggest NeoGAF's gaming side lacks threads about gender issues, morality, story concepts, reflections, etc. etc. etc.

That last bit is very true and a good point to add to this discussion.

 

[NullPointer]

I don't care about thing.

Stop caring about thing, people who care.

Yeah, we should be talking about the Oculus Rift instead, duh.

So now that we're back on to an actually interesting topic to actual human beings, are we going to see a full 1080p consumer model, or will they push for 4K? Whats the word on the latency again? I know that was a huge issue.

Oh god damn it, there I go doing it again.

I can't help myself!

I'll never get invited to those sweet after-parties.

 

[zma1013]

No way, they're right, why should I care about the video quality of my VIDEO games?

 

[Neuromancer]

No way, they're right, why should I care about the video quality of my VIDEO games?

Also, why would it be in any consumer's best interest to know (given the same exact game, on two or more platforms) which version might be better to spend $60 on?

 

[Nocturno999]

It matters. Specially when a console with significant less performance costs $100 more.
Of course these shills will never mention that.

 

[Septimus Prime]

A producer for the game said last night during an interview with GamesRadar that the game will run at 60 frames per second on the PS4. This contradicted earlier statements that the game would run at 30 fps, and sparked concern and some sketchy-looking online reports about what the Xbox One's frame rate would be.

...

When we focus on the amount of pixels that are being used to render Lara Croft, we overlook the implicit creepiness of the game industry's androcentric obsession with creating such an "obsessively detailed" version of someone like Lara Croft in the first place.

What the hell is up with this bait-and-switch right here? Ignore all the Call of Duty nonsense he brings up from out of nowhere in the middle of the article. This is an entire change of subject right here. "Hey, the frame rates are different--but does resolution really matter?" Nice trick.

 

[Bedlam]

Yeah no, image quality discussions are just as valid as discussions about content, especially when comparing different pieces of hardware. And they are not exclusive to the medium videogames either.

 

[Falk]

This makes as much sense as some random joe schmuck listening to mp3s on his ipod and not being able to tell the difference between shitty earbud A and shitty earbud B then having a dig at audiophiles for comparing everything from codecs to preamps to acoustics.

Shut up and go away. It may not be your fault for being born an average joe schmuck but it sure as hell isn't ours either, so stop splerging your dumb-as-balls opinion regarding issues pertaining to pushing the industry forward all over the internet.

 

[C.Olimar788]

What a wonderful article. It really is unfortunate that many video game fans and websites are still obsessing about visual trivialities instead of how to push the medium forward as an art.

It wouldn't be an issue if it were only specific, minute sections that were busy arguing over 720p versus 1080p, but it's such a large focus of the gaming community as a whole that it needs to be called out.

 

[rakkadakka]

We are the tastemakers. As early adopters, our opinion matters.

And it matters, it really does.

 

[Arkage]

This article is so bad on so many levels, but the biggest level it screws up is where it places the so-called blame. It literally says that conversations on resolution and visual fidelity prevent and impede discussion about the human issues, and that these conversation take away respect for games. What the fuck. Seriously. So many illogical conclusions in such a short span of words.

The obvious fact is that it takes very little time for a gaming site to write a blub on the resolution or framerate of the game. The "wasted energy" argument is fail. And since everything else about his theory depends on that argument, the entire article is fail.

 

[Raoul Duke]

First thing I thought when I saw the thread title was... "Who the fuck is motherboard?" then I clicked on the link and saw it's apart of Vice...

Well, if I want to hear about the illegal underground sex trades of eastern Europe or the mcmansions of the the drug lords in afghanistan, I'll go to vice, but I sure as shit don't want someone from that publication talking down to me telling me what I should and shouldn't care about, or how the news in our industry should be presented. I say fuck that, and that motherboard should get a steppin'.

Also, something tell me besides this oped that they mostly focus on the iphone... would I be correct in that assumption? I really have no clue, I'm just getting that vibe from his condescending tone and the fact that he kept bringing up the iphone.

 

[EdibleKnife]

What a wonderful article. It really is unfortunate that many video game fans and websites are still obsessing about visual trivialities instead of how to push the medium forward as an art.

It wouldn't be an issue if it were only specific, minute sections that were busy arguing over 720p versus 1080p, but it's such a large focus of the gaming community as a whole that it needs to be called out.

It's only a large focus because it has been almost consistently minimized and dismissed by gaming news at large. The people who care about it most have strong, and reasoned arguments but continually get shut down with "who cares". It's frustrating. Nobody who argues about it is attempting to prevent any sort of artistic progress. If they derailed every topic about artistic merit with their argument then there'd be an issue.

 

[Risk Breaker]

What the hell is up with this bait-and-switch right here? Ignore all the Call of Duty nonsense he brings up from out of nowhere in the middle of the article. This is an entire change of subject right here. "Hey, the frame rates are different--but does resolution really matter?" Nice trick.

(Talking about what you quoted from the article, not your words obviously) So people that model modern characters for videogames (with a lot of detail) are obssesive and creepy?

What does that say about Michelangelo? What a creepy obssesed dude eh?

Jesus.

 

[Super Nothing]

What the hell is up with this bait-and-switch right here? Ignore all the Call of Duty nonsense he brings up from out of nowhere in the middle of the article. This is an entire change of subject right here. "Hey, the frame rates are different--but does resolution really matter?" Nice trick.

My biggest problem with the bit about Lara being obsessively crafted is that at one point in the article he's going on about how we should be concerned with the "more human" elements of gaming rather than the technical elements. But here he's all freaked out because the character modeler tried to make a very detailed model of a human being. Isn't that one of the human aspects of gaming? Why is it ok to paint a human in painstaking detail, but if you make a 3d model of a human with that same attention to detail, you're a creep?

 

[kadotsu]

(Talking about what you quoted from the article, not your words obviously) So people that model modern characters for videogames (with a lot of detail) are obssesive and creepy?

What does that say about Michelangelo? What a creepy obssesed dude eh?

Jesus.

Not really the best rebuttal.

 

[RoboPlato]

Anyone who doesn't understand tech shouldn't be allowed to write articles claiming discussions of it don't matter. Enthusiasts debate different things than mainstream consumers, no matter what the hobby or medium, and just because it's not important to you does not mean it isn't a topic worth investigating.

 

[EdibleKnife]

My biggest problem with the bit about Lara being obsessively crafted is that at one point in the article he's going on about how we should be concerned with the "more human" elements of gaming rather than the technical elements. But here he's all freaked out because the character modeler tried to make a very detailed model of a human being. Isn't that one of the human aspects of gaming? Why is it ok to paint a human in painstaking detail, but if you make a 3d model of a human with that same attention to detail, you're a creep?

And even to that same token, Laura is hardly the most meticulously modeled character in gaming. It's just a strange thing to bring up honestly.

 

[whatsinaname]

How can someone take video games seriously when the video game enthusiast press itself is so dismissive towards issues that a reasonably large section of their audience thinks are important matters?

Broken games on release dates, micro-transactions in paid games, always online requirements and graphical fidelity have all been important talking points in the last one year and there were prominent video game journalists dismissing any negative feedback as rabble-rousing.

 

[JLeack]

What a wonderful article. It really is unfortunate that many video game fans and websites are still obsessing about visual trivialities instead of how to push the medium forward as an art.

It wouldn't be an issue if it were only specific, minute sections that were busy arguing over 720p versus 1080p, but it's such a large focus of the gaming community as a whole that it needs to be called out.

There is a new strategy RPG game out this week, the first DLC for Call of Duty: Ghosts, Don't Starve came out for free on PS4, etc. But nobody cares. They just want to continue kicking Microsoft because that's fun to them.

It's really sad IMO.

I would +1 you if such a system existed on here.

How can someone take video games seriously when the video game enthusiast press itself is so dismissive towards issues that a reasonably large section of their audience thinks are important matters?

Define reasonably large. Most of the readership on the site I write for, and more importantly most video game consumers, just play games for fun. They read about something that sounds good, then go and pick it up at the store or order it online. You know, they don't overreact to small things and then type 200 comments about it.

 

[dookeh]

I propose that Activision exercises it's creative expression and makes the next CoD game 30fps on xbox one--then we'll see how trivial the issue of frame rate is.

 

[SoulClap]

It's really odd that the enthusiast press act like they are somehow above discussing the technical aspects of a game. I get the impression that they're rolling their eyes when talking resolutions or frame rates on podcasts.

If I was reporting on a medium I would not go out of my way to remain ignorant to a key component.

 

[BeerSnob]

First thing I thought when I saw the thread title was... "Who the fuck is motherboard?" then I clicked on the link and saw it's apart of Vice...

Well, if I want to hear about the illegal underground sex trades of eastern Europe or the mcmansions of the the drug lords in afghanistan, I'll go to vice, but I sure as shit don't want someone from that publication talking down to me telling me what I should and shouldn't care about, or how the news in our industry should be presented. I say fuck that, and that motherboard should get a steppin'.

Also, something tell me besides this oped that they mostly focus on the iphone... would I be correct in that assumption? I really have no clue, I'm just getting that vibe from his condescending tone and the fact that he kept bringing up the iphone.

They (Vice) have turned their highly tuned machine toward gaming and have rendered unto it the same amount of intelligence and understanding they do any other matter. They have little to no fucking idea what they're talking about but they want to be controversial so they are trying to position themselves as against prevailing wisdom and as a voice for the counter-culture. I eagerly await their article on how sugar is a fantastic fuel additive and only "gearheads" disagree.

 

[RaikuHebi]

Videogames don't get as much respect is because the stereotypes still exist and they are also majorly just considered games, like what children play. Now it's not true anymore, but what can really be done?

Pretty much. The idea that videogames aren't respected because of technical obsesions is wrong and the idea that these technical obsessions shouldn't be discussed is wrong. Good games will shine regardless of the technical details.

Edit: oh it's a part of that patronising and obnoxious site Vice. Fuck 'em!

 

[mikeGFG]

yeah right

people incessantly squabble over obscurantist cellphone jargon and smartphones are the most popular devices on the planet.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Respect and popular culture go together like trust and politicians.

Also music reviewers would never mention if a piece of music sounded shit because it was just terribly produced? ok

 

[panda-zebra]

does a slightly faster frame rate or denser resolution say much of anything about the role of video games in society today? It's time that game critics started separating out the signal from the noise.

Slightly pseudy and not all that well argued points... yet back at ps4 launch...

All you need to do to witness the beefiness of the PlayStation 4's hardware is to play recent games on it and on its predecessor, side by side. The most recent crop of visually stunning blockbusters — "Battlefield 4," "Call of Duty: Ghosts," and "Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag" — had really begun to put a noticeable strain on current-gen systems. You could practically hear gears grinding under the hood.

All of these top current games are markedly improved on the PS4. The visual upgrade is akin to trading in the creaky graphics card you had back in college for a top-of-the-line system — the chunkiness of pixelated textures and lagging performance is replaced with slick, almost lifelike visuals. But more importantly, running all of these games just feels smoother and more responsive on the new console.

Ahhh, the good old days, when it was all about that smoother and more responsive versions of the same games and not their much more important role in society that's worthy of discussion in 2014... <deep longing sigh>

 

[CadetMahoney]

It's really odd that the enthusiast press act like they are somehow above discussing the technical aspects of a game. I get the impression that they're rolling their eyes when talking resolutions or frame rates on podcasts.

Pretty much.

 

[Raoul Duke]

They (Vice) have turned their highly tuned machine toward gaming and have rendered unto it the same amount of intelligence and understanding they do any other matter. They have little to no fucking idea what they're talking about but they want to be controversial so they are trying to position themselves as against prevailing wisdom and as a voice for the counter-culture. I eagerly await their article on how sugar is a fantastic fuel additive and only "gearheads" disagree.

That's really fucking sad. I haven't kept up with the publication in years (do they even still print the mag?)... but wtf have they done to it? Did it start to go downhill after they collaborated with MTV for that shit show? I was utterly disappointed in the direction they were going with at that time but I thought they made a decent turnaround when they went to HBO, which I felt was a natural fit... but yeah I'm not liking the direction they are going with what you described. Blah.

 

[patapuf]

Technology is an important part of games, it impacts the playing experience a lot, that's why it gets so much attention from the audience.

If you compare different versions of the same game, the technology becomes the only differentiator. The same goes when two consoles that serve the same purpose (playing games) release.

It's undeniable that the "art" side of game critisism still has ways to go. But if the release of the next gen consoles was any indication most of the press is clueless about technology surrounding games. We get a lot more good indepth discussions about the social impact of games than we do about the tech behind them.

Console releases are a bit of an exeption anyway. In a year we'll talk a lot less about framerate and resolution than we do now.

 

[EdibleKnife]

There is a new strategy RPG game out this week, the first DLC for Call of Duty: Ghosts, Don't Starve came out for free on PS4, etc. But nobody cares. They just want to continue kicking Microsoft because that's fun to them.

It's really sad IMO.

I would +1 you if such a system existed on here.

Well that's not completely hyperbolic in the slightest. There are people who care about all of those events and the people in the know and who care are most likely aware of all of them. The people posting in the EAToo, Resolution, and Microsoft/YT topics aren't taking anything away from those events.

 

[Forceatowulf]

So predictable

guyz.. guyz.... GUYZ... seriously, guyz... leave xbox alone

 

[whatsinaname]

Define reasonably large. Most of the readership on the site I write for, and more importantly most video game consumers, just play games for fun. They read about something that sounds good, then go and pick it up at the store or order it online. You know, they don't overreact to small things and then type 200 comments about it.

If the voices are large enough to supposedly cause people to not respect video games, they are large enough not to be dismissed outright.

Your statement is like saying that a car is for getting from point A to point B and being fun to drive. I am sure that is true. But are BMW/Audi dismissive of the enthusiasts who worry about a car having 10 more HP or weighing 100 lbs less?

 

[metalslimer]

It's one thing when people are arguing over 1-2 fps differences, but defending this kind of shit is laughable. Everyone should know they are getting a worse version and should know why. I don't get why so many people continue to insist on some kind of respect when we are shelling out 100s to 1000s of dollars a year on this stuff. Video games aren't a charity and consumers shouldn't be nice about the shitload of money they spend.

 

[RaikuHebi]

That's really fucking sad. I haven't kept up with the publication in years (do they even still print the mag?)... but wtf have they done to it? Did it start to go downhill after they collaborated with MTV for that shit show? I was utterly disappointed in the direction they were going with at that time but I thought they made a decent turnaround when they went to HBO, which I felt was a natural fit... but yeah I'm not liking the direction they are going with what you described. Blah.

I don't know of their past but the 1 or 2 times I've browsed there it seems like trendy lefties, catering for a stereotypical party, sex, drugs student demographic. I hope their university pages are meant to be a parody, because as a young 20 something I found them patronising.

Some of their documentaries into seedy countries have been good though, NK being the standout.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Slightly pseudy and not all that well argued points... yet back at ps4 launch...



Ahhh, the good old days, when it was all about that smoother and more responsive versions of the same games and not their much more important role in society that's worthy of discussion in 2014... <deep longing sigh>

WOOOOOOW! lol..nice find.

 

[Riposte]

I think that a lot of forumites draw hilarious lines in the sand regarding tech. "720p/30 fps is unplayable to me", stuff like that.

I don't think the amount of respect that video games get by people that don't care about them is particularly important, though. I'd rather see passionate shortsighted fans argue about fairly minor tech differences than see nothing but pseudo-intellectual desperate garbage about how some flavor of the month "elevates the medium into something more".

Couldn't have said it better. As dumb as some people get about this stuff (particularly within the GAF vs. journos drama megathreads), they could do a lot worse.

 

[Cyrano]

You know.. you can focus on game both for its technical merits and its socio-political-cultural merits too.

It is not just one or the other...

One is inherently more relevant to a greater number of people however.

Realistically, there should be a real divide between being a tech blog and being a blog critical of videogames. A game running at 30fps or 60fps has little if anything do with cultural relevancy.

 

[Raoul Duke]

I don't know of their past but the 1 or 2 times I've browsed there it seems like trendy lefties, catering for a stereotypical party, sex, drugs student demographic. I hope their university pages are meant to be a parody, because as a young 20 something I found them patronising.

Some of their documentaries into seedy countries have been good though, NK being the standout.

Oh yeah, it was def far from conservative lol... I haven't kept up with it in years, but I use to read it all time in high school and just lost touch with it until they showed up on TV one day. Skipped that after one viewing but actually enjoyed what they had going with HBO, and I saw that one with NK and Dennis Rodman, quite interesting. Shame they would spew stupid shit like this though... I don't think they should even have a tech section. Doesn't fit.