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[MosquitoSmasher]

Microsoft got some of the hottest top tier developers working on Crackdown 3 and they are damn good, I can promise you that personally.

That's great to know. That podcast was quite interesting and i can't wait to see what the game looks like now. I like what they said about the city about how each area has its own look and it was quite clear they put a lot of focus on making this a interesting and fun game world. I'd love to hear more and in the podcast they do say they will talk soon about it, but how old is this podcast and is there more at all?

As for the graphics, i'm not really worried. We've barely seen any gameplay, well except for that destruction demonstration but that part where the main guy looks over the city looked great. That probably wasn't in-game though. I'm hoping we get a game that looks great too with all the lights from buildings and hopefully impressive lighting. Hope the game world itself is believeable as well with pedestrians going about their lives and just a living breathing game world.

One thing is clear, they really have taken their sweet time for this one and MS let them. I'm sure it will be something special, because otherwise i can definitely have seen MS shutting it down at some point. I can understand that people don't like it that we have barely seen a thing and most of the time i don't consider that a good thing, but i got a good feeling about this one. But i won't deny that i wish the developers would have been more transparent, why not show some behind the scenes stuff before going all out at E3, or a screenshot here and there? It's all so secret....

 

[etta]

Or call them out. We don't need more blind fanboys on this forum.

And what has calling them out achieved?
Nothing.

 

[Sunset Samurai]

Generic in it's story. Didn't say the gameplay was bad, just that the setup of the open world was kind of whatever.

 

[MaulerX]

Yeah, that's a good point. I assume numbers for Playstation are similar. Based on numbers like these, it looks like console gaming is not doing a good job of reaching new players. That will eventually be a problem

They are reaching new players. It's just that those new players are starting at an older age.

 

[Humdinger]

I think anyone on GAF who follows the financial side of the game industry understands that the driving force behind financial growth and security in the industry is GaaS, specifically MT. Just look at EA or Activision's latest briefings. The amount of money coming in from loot boxes, skins, FUT or MUT is far greater than what you would make from a SP only games. It would be financially imprudent not to pursue GaaS. That is not to say that SP is dead and buried. There is still a market for it but it is not as lucrative as GaaS.

What is FUT and MUT?

 

[hanspampel]

What is FUT and MUT?

Fifa Ultimate Team
Madden Ultimate Team

 

[Kill3r7]

What is FUT and MUT?

Fifa ultimate team and Madden ultimate team.

 

[Humdinger]

As for GaaS games and SP/MP; Games like Life is Strange, Hitman S1 and Tales from the Borderlands are GaaS games that are SP only.

I don't think episodic SP games would be considered GaaS, unless you really stretch the term.

Adding more to a game after it's been released to monetize off of it is a GAAS. It's not anything new but it seems the internet wants to go crazy over the term.

And I think part of that reaction is because we seem to have different definitions of what GaaS means. For instance, you say GaaS means anything that charges money after the initial release, from $2 DLC all the way up.

But others say differently. For instance:

Mario Run isn't a GaaS because it has MTX, and Oblivion wasn't GaaS because it had horse armour.

GaaS is a title that has 'unlimited potential' in terms of ongoing revenue streams; monthly subscription MMOs are GaaS, as the clearest example.

The reaction/pushback is coming from people who are concerned about the latter definition (GaaS = a perpetual milking model) taking over and crowding out good SP gaming experiences.

Personally, I don't see that happening. I think you typically need a good SP to anchor your franchise ... after which you add all the other stuff, to "monetize" it. I know there are exceptions, but I can't see those becoming the dominant force in the industry.

 

[Humdinger]

Fifa ultimate team and Madden ultimate team.

I see. Examples of GaaS within those franchises. Gotcha.

 

[watdaeff4]

I can't imagine that MS market researchers would shape the companies focus by using biased surveys.

The article says its was a survey of 2000 Xbox owners. But I don't think it got into specifics on how they were selected.

It's also owners, not users.

So a lot of it depends on how they selected the 2000 owners and how the questions were worded.

Surveys can sometimes lead to incredible errors in statistics.

 

[Doffen]

And what has calling them out achieved?
Nothing.

People don't get banned on GAF?

 

[Crayon]

How's the data collected though? That could skew the numbers.

For that and other reasons, I don't think it's enough to lose sleep over. Like I said, we don't really know what it means, but the idea of traditional games being just for grandma's and grandpa's one day is enough to give me a little chill.

 

[watdaeff4]

People don't get banned on GAF?

Yes but I've seen shitposts waaaaay worse than that one go untouched. I wouldn't get your hopes up.


For the record I'm a fan of calling out shitposts and do it often

 

[Doffen]

Yes but I've seen shitposts waaaaay worse than that one go untouched. I wouldn't get your hopes up.

I enjoy challenging people. I don't care if the poster get's banned or learn something new.

 

[blakep267]

People don't get banned on GAF?

Salty hippo has been throwing personal shots at Phil spencer for a while now. Nobody seems to care

 

[Bits N Pieces]

For that and other reasons, I don't think it's enough to lose sleep over. Like I said, we don't really know what it means, but the idea of traditional games being just for grandma's and grandpa's one day is enough to give me a little chill.

What would you buy for an 8 year old kid, an iPad or a PS4/Xbox One?

Back in the day a Master System or a SNES would be the perfect console for them, now? As a value proposition a tablet kicks a consoles arse for parents. Now when that kid gets older and starts to have a disposable income they can make the informed decision to buy a luxury product like a home console and to me that's what it looks like is happening.

Gaming is getting any smaller, kids are just consuming them in different ways and I would say this should be expected rather than feared.

 

[Doffen]

Salty hippo has been throwing personal shots at Phil spencer for a while now. Nobody seems to care

You mean stuff like this?

I was too tempted to make a joke post, but I'll be serious. 10 steps:

10. Find Phil Spencer and murder him so he doesn't come back to turn everything to shit again.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

What would you buy for an 8 year old kid, an iPad or a PS4/Xbox One?

Back in the day a Master System or a SNES would be the perfect console for them, now? As a value proposition a tablet kicks a consoles arse for parents. Now when that kid gets older and starts to have a disposable income they can make the informed decision to buy a luxury product like a home console and to me that's what it looks like is happening.

Gaming is getting any smaller, kids are just consuming them in different ways and I would say this should be expected rather than feared.

I'd buy them a switch. Duh. Giving a kid an iPad or a phone at too young of an age is only going to stunt their learning and ability to focus.

 

[watdaeff4]

You mean stuff like this?

Honestly that isn't even funny and I'm surprised it was allowed

 

[Bits N Pieces]

I'd buy them a switch. Duh. Giving a kid an iPad or a phone at too young of an age is only going to stunt their learning and ability to focus.

That's why I didn't include it in my comparison, that would be a no brainer to get them a Switch

Also parental controls are perfect for tablet usage, though probably not enough people actually use them.

 

[Papacheeks]

How "super highly" do I talk of Crackdown? Don't get me wrong... I enjoyed the original, and am interested in seeing what Cloudgine's tech actually means for a real game... but it's not like I run around talking about the game at length. I didn't even try out Crackdown 2 at all.

But what's ridiculous, is that you've come in here trumpeting how GaaS is the wrong way for a company to go versus strict singleplayer... you've been shown extensively how the other players you claimed don't have GaaS actually do, how these games are actually seeing success more consistently than games without, and now how having a robust multiplayer doesn't necessarily mean that a game doesn't have a meaningful singleplayer component.. and now you're trying to play off the original Crackdown because "it's story was generic lol"... oh and because it wasn't some 5m+ selling smash hit... the exact sort of game you'll criticize MS for ignoring and not nurturing with a sequel in favour of only showing faith in Halo/Gears/Forza constantly.

Where did I say strict single player? I said I don't think modeling a division off of mainly GAAS which seems to be more and more what MS is doing structurly is not a good long term investment.

It makes lots of money yes, but that money tapers out over time only a few games go past the 2 year or even year mark. Blizzard, Activision, EA, GTA V seem to be the games/companies that have it work for them. But for specific games. EA case it's sports and DLC with Battlefield games. How long and well did the market take to GAAS for garden warfare? Didn't the second game like die super quick?
Call of duty makes it;s money more from the DLC/season pass than the microtransactions. ANd after a year or within 6 months the numbers for players drops like a rock.

Certain games make sense for GAAS i agree, but to focus your console division on it does not. And evidence from posters like Shinobi, among others in the industry who have tweeted to him kind of paint a picture along with decisions as of late that GAAS style games is going to be what we see more of from MS.
I'm not saying sp games or campaigns are going to stop, I'm saying their focus within the division and their output outlook will be for services, and service based games. Strictly games with campaign's and "optional" online will be a thing of the past, a lot of work in the marketplace for games like Crackdown will be online, customizations, and possibly more depending on how the community reacts to the game.

I mean how do you not look at when you boot up Gears 4 and the first thing that comes up is ESPORTS, or new card packs, or skins have been added to new drops.
I would assume Halo 5 has similar community updates that pop up when the game is booted.
I will await MS E3, if I see a big show of online for sea of thieves, Crackdown, forza among other titles especially if they talk about community hub's/tools I'll come back to this post.
You think within a year when Nintendo's online is all up running with subs, that we will see more micrtransactions in their games? I only see couple currently unless there;s some big online game they have been hiding that is to be revealed yet.

 

[Ambient80]

We have to change the target's avatar in the Metaverse. Let's send the calling card today.

Haha, oh my I've been playing too much of this....

 

[LukasTaves]

Where did I say strict single player? I said I don't think modeling a division off of mainly GAAS which seems to be more and more what MS is doing structurly is not a good long term investment.

They have exactly 1 game as a service right coming up, and they cancelled the 2 other games services and even closed the studios working on them.

How is that a sign that they are structuring itself around games as a service?

 

[Papacheeks]

They have exactly 1 game as a service right coming up, and they cancelled the 2 other games services and even closed the studios working on them.

How is that a sign that they are structuring itself around games as a service?

Game pass, Gears of war 4 have you booted it up lately I ahve over 150 hours in horde and everytime I boot it up there's more new skins, or some Esports drop, new Skins.

How you even level your classes up uses cards you have to purchase by playing Competitive multiplayer or Horde. You even have scrap for making new cards.

Halo 5 req packs is a big part of the game, Forza you buy credits to buy cars that you can acquire by racing in different modes but it's something that comes up when the game is booted and is a big part of how the game works.

Uncharted doesn't come out unscathed either same with Last of us, but your playing for mainly the campaign and they don't lock certain things behind a paywall for single player.

And we shall see how multiplayer and community tools free/paid come into play this E3 for State of decay, Crackdown 3.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

You mean stuff like this?

What the fuck? Even if meant as a joke that's not even funny or right in any way. Absolutely unnecessary too.

Yeah quite crazy that you don't get kicked off for a while for that but for some absolutely miniscule things you CAN.

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

Have Microsoft mentioned what controller will be included with the Scorpio? New revision, elite, regular?

 

[soundscream]

You mean stuff like this?

Holy Shit. I made a joke in the OT about mods not giving a shit anymore on the gaming side, but god damn.

 

[Chris1]

You mean stuff like this?

Jesus christ

 

[LukasTaves]

Game pass, Gears of war 4 have you booted it up lately I ahve over 150 hours in horde and everytime I boot it up there's more new skins, or some Esports drop, new Skins.

How you even level your classes up uses cards you have to purchase by playing Competitive multiplayer or Horde. You even have scrap for making new cards.

Halo 5 req packs is a big part of the game, Forza you buy credits to buy cars that you can acquire by racing in different modes but it's something that comes up when the game is booted and is a big part of how the game works.

Uncharted doesn't come out unscathed either same with Last of us, but your playing for mainly the campaign and they don't lock certain things behind a paywall for single player.

And we shall see how multiplayer and community tools free/paid come into play this E3 for State of decay, Crackdown 3.

If you are saying Ms is moving (and not just xbox as a company) towards a model were they have people paying for subscriptions and other recurring payment segments than I'd agree, and it's obvious that games as a service are part of that push.

And that's also what gamepass is, not a mean to deliver games as a service, but a service in which they can release tons of single player games, that wouldn't generate as much revenue as the big online hits, but by being part of that service they do, because there will be millions of subscribers.

So games like Quantum Break, instead of not making more like those anymore, it's likely Ms will add them directly to game pass, to keep giving people reasons to subscribe.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

That's why I didn't include it in my comparison, that would be a no brainer to get them a Switch

Also parental controls are perfect for tablet usage, though probably not enough people actually use them.

Ha great minds think alike.

 

[Trup1aya]

Game pass, Gears of war 4 have you booted it up lately I ahve over 150 hours in horde and everytime I boot it up there's more new skins, or some Esports drop, new Skins.

How you even level your classes up uses cards you have to purchase by playing Competitive multiplayer or Horde. You even have scrap for making new cards.

Halo 5 req packs is a big part of the game, Forza you buy credits to buy cars that you can acquire by racing in different modes but it's something that comes up when the game is booted and is a big part of how the game works.

Uncharted doesn't come out unscathed either same with Last of us, but your playing for mainly the campaign and they don't lock certain things behind a paywall for single player.

And we shall see how multiplayer and community tools free/paid come into play this E3 for State of decay, Crackdown 3.

Game pass is not a "game as a service". It's simply a service.

Gears is a game with a bunch of microtransactions... no different than what every other publisher is doing.

The only 'game as a service' they have coming up is Sea of Theives, potentially.

You're finding excuses to not include games published by other publishers in your critique, but there all shallow.

 

[etta]

I enjoy challenging people. I don't care if the poster get's banned or learn something new.

The point is their behaviour won't change.

 

[Papacheeks]

Game pass is not a "game as a service". It's simply a service.

Gears is a game with a bunch of microtransactions... no different than what every other publisher is doing.

The only 'game as a service' they have coming up is Sea of Theives, potentially.

You're finding excuses to not include games published by other publishers in your critique, but there all shallow.

What? You mean all the microtransactions in games like uncharted, Mario kart which I think are few. Yes there are some I didn't omitt them if you saw previous post I mention games like uncharted and the likes.

I also talked about third party that do it as well. Did you miss that post as well?

I also lump PS+ in with games with Game pass since it started out as that. It's all relative.

They could include other things in game pass down the road. But as it stands there are Microtransactions to get cars for forza which is what the game is about, which is unlocking driving different cars. You for sure can just play the game to get enough to purchase the cars. But shouldn't they just unlock by playing the game like older racing games do it?

Have you played gears of war 4? the horde mode and competitive mode are built around drops, card packs to upgrade classes in horde.

I would rather just earn them or unlock them by playing the classes.

 

[TheUnsunghero26]

You mean stuff like this?

Wow. What the fuck?

I'm not sure how many people do it, but it's always worth PMing a mod to deal with shit posts.

 

[Trup1aya]

It's also owners, not users.

So a lot of it depends on how they selected the 2000 owners and how the questions were worded.

Surveys can sometimes lead to incredible errors in statistics.

They can and will IF the selection process is biased.

I would imagine that , due to the implications of this study, they would have been extra careful.

 

[leeh]

Honestly that isn't even funny and I'm surprised it was allowed

I do feel the moderation on here has been lax ever since Bish's departure.

The guy's a junior and not perm banned for saying someone should be killed? This should be stopped straight away, this forum needs to stay respectable.

 

[Trup1aya]

What? You mean all the microtransactions in games like uncharted, Mario kart which I think are few. Yes there are some I didn't omitt them if you saw previous post I mention games like uncharted and the likes.

I also talked about third party that do it as well. Did you miss that post as well?

I also lump PS+ in with games with Game pass since it started out as that. It's all relative.

They could include other things in game pass down the road. But as it stands there are Microtransactions to get cars for forza which is what the game is about, which is unlocking driving different cars. You for sure can just play the game to get enough to purchase the cars. But shouldn't they just unlock by playing the game like older racing games do it?

Have you played gears of war 4? the horde mode and competitive mode are built around drops, card packs to upgrade classes in horde.

I would rather just earn them or unlock them by playing the classes.

I own Forza and Gears.

Forza has a single player campaign and a multiplayer game that you can play without spending an extra cent. It also has a traditional dlc model. The game ships with hundreds of cars - and every car the game ships with can be had without additional transactions. There's no 'traditional' unlock model. Many racing games have been using a freeform credits model for progression for decades, and forza has been doing it since BEFORE they implemented MTs. forza now gives you the option to accelerate your credit earning with $.

Not only that, but the game hands you cars all the time, and gives you credits even when you aren't playing.

Same thing goes for gears. You can play through the campaign and competitve mp without ever spending an extra cent... and spending $ provides no advantage. The mts in horde mode are gregious, but no more so than what we've seen in games from Sony, for example. In fact TLOU and Uncharted are much worse because they provide advantages in vs modes.

Neither ps+ or game pass are GaaS... because they aren't games...

You are just failing to explain, w/o making excuses, how the design of MS' recent and upcoming games is any different from how every major publisher had been proceeding.

You can opine that SP components are of a lower quality compared to the competition... But you can't prove that to be due to a newfound GaaS focus. in comparison to Sony and Nintendo MS has been struggling with SP for as since they left the og xbox behind.

 

[hanspampel]

some back to topic post

We have hardware launches, one of which Phil referenced, which is ”Project Scorpio," that tends to have and can have an impact on company gross margins in a given year even if the structural improvement in every segment increases.

maybe not that newsworthy and expected, but this should give an idea, that Xbox Hardware margins decrease with the Scorpio launch.
So they won't go for profits with that console, but rather still just break even
$399 more likely now!?

 

[Salty Hippo]

I do feel the moderation on here has been lax ever since Bish's departure.

The guy's a junior and not perm banned for saying someone should be killed? This should be stopped straight away, this forum needs to stay respectable.

The fact that some of you don't see that as a joke, as unfunny as you may find it, is a little worrying to me. I apologize if anyone felt offended by that. But perm banned? Wow. Really?

By the way, I thought backseat modding was ban worthy? Campaigning for perm banning for a stupid joke posted in a funny thread about stolen IDs is something I find, quite frankly, kind of disgusting. You know that comment is not litteral, yet here you are implying I seriously said he "should be killed". My critical views on Microsoft's gaming division must really get on your nerves if you're that desperate to get rid of me.

I again apologize for the joke, it was a bad choice of tone, but still obviously a joke. I should have gone for "locking him inside a closet" or something more light hearted like that. I also apologize for the off-topic, but I was mentioned multiple times here for some reason despite the fact that my joke wasn't even posted in this thread.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

What discussion did I stumble upon?

 

[soundscream]

The fact that some of you don't see that as a joke, as unfunny as you may find it, is a little worrying to me. I apologize if anyone felt offended by that. But perm banned? Wow. Really?

By the way, I thought backseat modding was ban worthy? Campaigning for perm banning for a stupid joke in a funny thread about stolen IDs is something I find, quite frankly, kind of disgusting. You know that comment is not litteral, yet here you are implying I seriously said he "should be killed". My critical views on Microsoft's gaming division must really get on your nerves if you're that desperate to get rid of me.

I again apologize for the joke, it was a bad choice of tone, but still obviously a joke. I should have gone for "locking him inside a closet" or something more light hearted like that. I also apologize for the off-topic, but I was mentioned multiple times here for some reason despite the fact that my joke wasn't even posted on this thread.

The problem is your "joke" was A) not funny & B) completely inappropriate. To think its ok to even joke about causing bodily harm to someone over video games says a lot about yourself and your level of maturity. The reason I post on this forum is because of the moderation that is supposed to keep things like your "joke" out of here.

 

[spannicus]

Moderation at times is sketchy at best around here. Word up

 

[Salty Hippo]

The problem is your "joke" was A) not funny & B) completely inappropriate. To think its ok to even joke about causing bodily harm to someone over video games says a lot about yourself and your level of maturity. The reason I post on this forum is because of the moderation that is supposed to keep things like your "joke" out of here.

You have the right to feel that way, but the air quotes won't stop the joke from being a joke. If mods feel that warrants a perm ban, I'll take it.

I won't derail this thread any further.

Cheers.

 

[LukasTaves]

The problem is your "joke" was A) not funny & B) completely inappropriate. To think its ok to even joke about causing bodily harm to someone over video games says a lot about yourself and your level of maturity. The reason I post on this forum is because of the moderation that is supposed to keep things like your "joke" out of here.

To be fair, he meant killing Phil to be in his place forever. not out of hate for him.

 

[Giftofgab24]

I do feel the moderation on here has been lax ever since Bish's departure.

The guy's a junior and not perm banned for saying someone should be killed? This should be stopped straight away, this forum needs to stay respectable.

I had no idea that Gaf mods were ok with death threats. Kinda sours my experience. I come here to avoid that shit.

 

[hanspampel]

I had no idea that Gaf mods were ok with death threats. Kinda sours my experience. I come here to avoid that shit.

So i hope you do not visit polit_gaf
Not sure about death threats, but ivocation of violence is pretty comon there.

I tried my best. Now even i fell for the off topic talk. Let's cut it here please

 

[Matt]

I disagree and moreso think it more directly relates to being able to have a job and buying a console.

It could be indictive of mobile gaming being huge but it shows once people reach age of working that they do buy consoles

That's not what's happening. Kids who in past years would own a console are now just playing games on mobile, Minecraft on a PC, or not gaming at all.

That's a bad thing for the traditional market.

 

[etta]

That's not what's happening. Kids who in past years would own a console are now just playing games on mobile, Minecraft on a PC, or not gaming at all.

That's a bad thing for the traditional market.

Maybe the whole nickle-and-diming and microtransactions shoved up the ass and season passes and cut up content and pay-to-win DLC is driving the low/no-income users away.
Hopefully the implosion of this industry is near.

 

[LukasTaves]

Maybe the whole nickle-and-diming and microtransactions shoved up the ass and season passes and cut up content and pay-to-win DLC is driving the low/no-income users away.
Hopefully the implosion of this industry is near.

But that's basically mobile gaming too XD

 

[ForkNetwork]

Maybe the whole nickle-and-diming and microtransactions shoved up the ass and season passes and cut up content and pay-to-win DLC is driving the low/no-income users away.
Hopefully the implosion of this industry is near.

Dang etta, your posts always make me feel that you need a hug