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[digoutyoursoul]

All the complaining on forums, websites, twitter and so on about Microsoft's ideology to first party (I'm one of them) really...it doesn't have much impact, the Xbox Live sub however, does. Mine is due to run out at the end of August and if they have another E3 like last years I definitely won't be renewing.

My expectations are already at the lowest it's been after over a decade of buying and playing Xbox so anything I'm pleasantly surprised by is a bonus.

 

[SPDIF]

The fact that they have to tell investors this means that it's questionable.

Why?

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

Yes, those are certainly what he is referring to. Likely including Halo 6 and Forza 7 in that as well.

Hmmmm, nothing to get excited about yet then. But we'll see what they bring at E3.

I see people saying "no more SP only games" but that shouldn't be a big surprise after Phil's comments recently. I think from now on MS will be looking to get both SP and MP in their games. Or at least i hope so because i love SP games.

And no way in hell can they only be counting on online/MP games, they need SP experiences for diversity. Bring me games similar to Gears and Crackdown in that they offer both SP and MP and I'm good! Bring me games that take advantage of the hardware so we get great visuals.

 

[Podge293]

That last chart...a whole segment with "loyalty" written next to it...WTF does that even mean?

Less PowerPoint, more games please. And nail the Scorpio release and support.

Until then, you can keep your MAUs.

If you have loyal users you get more money from them. That's not rocket science it's good business.

Yeah you can drum up short term gains by selling something big once but if they don't stay around for v2,3,4 etc then itll never survive.

Also this was a briefing to analysts. They care about this kinda stuff so of course MS would show this to them.

 

[JlNX]

The fact that they have to tell investors this means that it's questionable. They didn't give a time frame of the profitability.

Actually at these briefing's they like to focus on one aspect of the company that investors might not understand fully. That is why they bring up such basic and guess ablle things like profitability, it's also due to the fact that this is a way to give media a defined statement to take all the Xbox is not profitable articles from being written. Media thought surface wasn't profitable for a long time but they came out at a briefing were they focused on hardware and said the same things. In fact in this same briefing profitability is mention in all aspects of the company not singled at Xbox. I think your reading into it far to much.

 

[ViciousDS]

T-Mobile is gonna have it on their T-Mobile Tuesdays app in June, so people there are going to have a free month of gamepass to try at least.

YUS!

 

[wesleyshark]

Its never been about just selling consoles for years. XBL Subscriptions have changed the game on how a company can make more money on a console, to the point Sony and now Nintendo have done the same.

Yep

 

[Triggerhappytel]

They've really got to bring it this E3. Exciting times. You talk a good talk Phil; now it's time to put your money where your mouth is.

 

[Trup1aya]

The fact that they have to tell investors this means that it's questionable. They didn't give a time frame of the profitability.

You'd be surprised what investors need to be told. Even analysts often have incomplete understanding of the markets they analyze.

 

[RichiRamjag]

They've really got to bring it this E3. Exciting times. You talk a good talk Phil; now it's time to put your money where your mouth is.

I hope they do. With it being so close to E3, I'm trying to think positive lol.

 

[jeffram]

Especially if Xbox Game Pass takes off. That would help fund more story-driven single player games. They've already said as much.



Right, so they're definitely in the red?

No idea, but when they stopped reporting on Xbox financials by packaging it into other businesses, it was in the red. Saying it's profitable might mean it was profitable for the first time in q4 last year, or maybe it's been profitable since the one launched.

The conspiracy theorist in me is they are trumpeting the value of Xbox because they want to fetch a high price if they do sell. It's we'll know that apple is looking to get into games, and people are looking at publishers, but I think apple wants to stay out of content and get into platforms. The whole presentation seems tailored for apple. Apple as the market leader wants to drive loyalty, and now we have Microsoft talking about loyalty as the end goal and it even has an apple logo in the loop. Now, I don't actually believe this, but it's fun to think about.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Is it just me, or does Phil have some very short T-Rexy arms?

half man
half beast
half dinosaur
100% action

 

[hanspampel]

Actually at these briefing's they like to focus on one aspect of the company that investors might not understand fully. That is why they bring up such basic and guess ablle things like profitability, it's also due to the fact that this is a way to give media a defined statement to take all the Xbox is not profitable articles from being written. Media thought surface wasn't profitable for a long time but they came out at a briefing were they focused on hardware and said the same things. In fact in this same briefing profitability is mention in all aspects of the company not singled at Xbox. I think your reading into it far to much.

correct.
you really need to watch the full briefing to understand that
they also talk how they digitally transform a butter producer.

so what analysts and investors really have that much insight and expertise in all those areas? they can read and understand the financial figures Microsoft is providing and read into the bottom line, sure

But do they know 100% on every operational aspect of Microsofts business and their customers, too?
Because today you need to know and understand their customers business, otherwise you don't know what MS is actually doing. Microsoft does not only sell software and services to customers anymore. They work and partner with them for unique and custom solutions fitting their needs.

 

[Slythe]

I'm in for trying Sea of Thieves on PC. Interested in Crackdown because I liked the first one a lot. Other than that I'm ready to be surprised. With all the quality SP content from Sony and Nintendo these days I am fine if Microsoft focuses on a few new service based, multiplayer heavy projects a year.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Well that is a cut and dry quote for people that constantly say the Xbox division is in the red.

But Xbox is dead and MS is just there for show!!!1


Keep doing what you doing MS, you're moving toward the right track I think.

half man
half beast
half dinosaur
100% action

101% uncle

 

[Bold One]

Microsft's messaging is always fuzzy - I never understand what they are trying to say.

 

[Podge293]

No idea, but when they stopped reporting on Xbox financials by packaging it into other businesses, it was in the red. Saying it's profitable might mean it was profitable for the first time in q4 last year, or maybe it's been profitable since the one launched.

The conspiracy theorist in me is they are trumpeting the value of Xbox because they want to fetch a high price if they do sell. It's we'll know that apple is looking to get into games, and people are looking at publishers, but I think apple wants to stay out of content and get into platforms. The whole presentation seems tailored for apple. Apple as the market leader wants to drive loyalty, and now we have Microsoft talking about loyalty as the end goal and it even has an apple logo in the loop. Now, I don't actually believe this, but it's fun to think about.

If you think that's true that's not how businesses work. Due diligence would happen and any profits or losses would be easily found unless MS are into some serious fraud and have been submitting false data for years.

I'd say they said it because there's plenty of noise that the Xbox isn't profitable and that can scare investors. By MS directly saying it is, calms investors fears

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Metaverse?

Someone has been enjoying some Persona 5.

 

[Kill3r7]

I think anyone on GAF who follows the financial side of the game industry understands that the driving force behind financial growth and security in the industry is GaaS, specifically MT. Just look at EA or Activision's latest briefings. The amount of money coming in from loot boxes, skins, FUT or MUT is far greater than what you would make from a SP only games. It would be financially imprudent not to pursue GaaS. That is not to say that SP is dead and buried. There is still a market for it but it is not as lucrative as GaaS.

 

[Milly Osworth]

Thats a very Polygon graph.

 

[LukasTaves]

The fact that they have to tell investors this means that it's questionable. They didn't give a time frame of the profitability.

I don't think you realized the purpose of the presentation was not just to tell people: Xbox is profitable, we pink swear it!

Hint: They started the presentation talking about the cloud, and not the power of the cloud for xbone either.

 

[Trago]

I think anyone on GAF who follows the financial side of the game industry understands that the driving force behind financial growth and security in the industry is GaaS, specifically MT. Just look at EA or Activision's latest briefings. The amount of money coming in from loot boxes, skins, FUT or MUT is far greater than what you would make from a SP only games. It would be financially imprudent not to pursue GaaS. That is not to say that SP is dead and buried. There is still a market for it but it is not as lucrative as GaaS.

Unfortunately, many people will ignore this point.

 

[Admodieus]

Thats a very Polygon graph.

It's not a graph....it's a graphic for a slide. It's not conveying any numbers

 

[Sjefen]

I hope games as a service will be a small marketsegment and I really hope Sony and Nintendo dont share this vision.

 

[JaffeLion]

RIP single player Xbox games.

well, apparently gamers don't want them. just look at the best selling games, almost only multiplayer games..

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

But with all of this explained about mixed reality, do they really need to go into detail about it during the Xbox E3 press conference? This seems like enough information for now. And he once again mentions investing in first party. I just wonder if they mean their current first party or actually new upcoming studios.

 

[Trago]

well, apparently gamers don't want them. just look at the best selling games, almost only multiplayer games..

They aren't ditching SP games!

 

[Ricky_R]

MS's first party games have never appealed to me all that much, and if they're going to chase games more as a service then they will appeal to me even less, but there's a big market out there that they appeal to and MS will probably find more success there than trying to push more single player games that the Xbox fanbase don't seem to be interested in.

 

[AyraSutoraifu]

When i read these reports… it so confirms why MS never will dominate Europe.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

well, apparently gamers don't want them. just look at the best selling games, almost only multiplayer games..

Unless i missed something, i don't see them saying there won't be any SP games anymore on Xbox. By that logic it would mean Halo won't have SP anymore and same with Gears. Just don't expect anything like QB anymore, a game that is solely SP.

If we get games like Ryse, Sunset Overdrive and so on that deliver both SP and MP we have nothing to worry about.

It's not like MS didn't try it with SP games, but look at how pretty much nobody bought it. This move is understandable even if as a consumer I'm not super happy about it.

 

[jeffram]

If you think that's true that's not how businesses work. Due diligence would happen and any profits or losses would be easily found unless MS are into some serious fraud and have been submitting false data for years.

I'd say they said it because there's plenty of noise that the Xbox isn't profitable and that can scare investors. By MS directly saying it is, calms investors fears

By value, I didn't mean profitability, I meant the value of the business model in supporting the brand, specifically through loyalty.

 

[Trago]

Unless i missed something, i don't see them saying there won't be any SP games anymore on Xbox. By that logic it would mean Halo won't have SP anymore and same with Gears. Just don't expect anything like QB anymore, a game that is solely SP.

If we get games like Ryse, Sunset Overdrive and so on that deliver both SP and MP we have nothing to worry about.

I was gonna make that point. At the very least, if they're gonna fund a story driven game, then expect tacked on multiplayer with loot boxes.

Recore 2: Electric Boogaloo

 

[cripterion]

They bled plenty of 360 owners coming off their shit Xbox one at the start of the gen, where was the loyalty there? Bring out good games and make a good console and people will buy that, plain and simple. I'm considering buying Project Scorpio but the initial Xbox one was such a disappointment and their endeavors on pc are still a turnoff for me.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

I was gonna make that point. At the very least, if they're gonna fund a story driven game, then expect tacked on multiplayer with loot boxes.

Recore 2: Electric Boogaloo

Yup! Or if there's ever a new Banjo game they probably will add some kind of MP mode or whatsoever. It seems people believe Xbox will only have free to play, mmo and MP games in the future. I don't see that happening at all because not every game is suitable for only MP or SP and again, xbox will want a good diverse library I'm sure.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

I think it just shows that Nadella and Microsoft see gaming as more than just Xbox.

Which is what a lot of us here have been saying whenever doom and glooom about "selling the division" and "exiting the industry" people rear their heads

 

[Jasper]

The problem with Microsoft is if they are going to follow the same pattern as XB1, and release their first & second party offerings (and Microsoft partnership third party games) on both PC AND XBOX (like Forza 6, Halo Wars 2, Killer Instinct, ReCore, Quantum Break, Gears of War 4, etc).

What the fuck is the point in getting an XBOX gaming system, when there aren't even any fucking exclusives...and you can play Microsoft's first/second party games on your PC instead?

Microsoft can't have it's cake and eat it too....they need to pick a lane! Either (a.) release their games on XBOX AND PC for superior software sales but inferior XBOX hardware sales, or (b.) release their games only on XBOX and have superior hardware sales but inferior software sales.

If they stick to the same plan as present, they are fucked. The uber-hardcore gamers will continue on with a PS4 + PC combo (a PS4 for all of Sony's incredible PS4 exclusive games, and a PC for third party games and Microsoft's own games).

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

The problem with Microsoft is if they are going to follow the same pattern as XB1, and release their first & second party offerings (and Microsoft partnership third party games) on both PC AND XBOX (like Forza 6, Halo Wars 2, Killer Instinct, ReCore, Quantum Break, Gears of War 4, etc).

What the fuck is the point in getting an XBOX gaming system, when there aren't even any fucking exclusives...and you can play Microsoft's first/second party games on your PC instead?

Microsoft can't have it's cake and eat it too....they need to pick a lane! Either (a.) release their games on XBOX AND PC for superior software sales but inferior XBOX hardware sales, or (b.) release their games only on XBOX and have superior hardware sales but inferior software sales.

If they stick to the same plan as present, they are fucked. The uber-hardcore gamers will continue on with a PS4 + PC combo (a PS4 for all of Sony's incredible PS4 exclusive games, and a PC for third party games and Microsoft's own games).

Seriously don't you think this question is already outdated? XPA isn't new, it's almost a year already, and yet you still asking "what's the point of getting an Xbox if there is no exclusive"? can't you just go check how Xbox doing with XPA in past year? is that really hard to find it out?

 

[lynux3]

So did xb1

lol, pretty good.

 

[Rembrandt]

If they stick to the same plan as present, they are fucked. The uber-hardcore gamers will continue on with a PS4 + PC combo (a PS4 for all of Sony's incredible PS4 exclusive games, and a PC for third party games and Microsoft's own games).

Besides for all those uber-hardcore gamers that currently don't even have a PS4 or have a PC/Switch.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

I was thinking more like Alan Wake 3. (We're jumping 2 just because).

MS already set the precedent by skipping Windows 9!

 

[Leflus]

Good news: Profitable division

Bad news: GaaS*

*GaaS doesn't necessarily mean MP only games, but that's what the term sounds like to me every time it is mentioned

Yup! Or if there's ever a new Banjo game they probably will add some kind of MP mode or whatsoever. It seems people believe Xbox will only have free to play, mmo and MP games in the future. I don't see that happening at all because not every game is suitable for only MP or SP and again, xbox will want a good diverse library I'm sure.

Fun fact: Banjo X, the cancelled remake of Banjo-Kazooie, was supposed to have a co-op mode.

I actually think it could work as a co-op game. Would be an interesting way to spice up the IP

Spoiler

without adding in car building

 

[Trup1aya]

No idea, but when they stopped reporting on Xbox financials by packaging it into other businesses, it was in the red. Saying it's profitable might mean it was profitable for the first time in q4 last year, or maybe it's been profitable since the one launched.

The conspiracy theorist in me is they are trumpeting the value of Xbox because they want to fetch a high price if they do sell. It's we'll know that apple is looking to get into games, and people are looking at publishers, but I think apple wants to stay out of content and get into platforms. The whole presentation seems tailored for apple. Apple as the market leader wants to drive loyalty, and now we have Microsoft talking about loyalty as the end goal and it even has an apple logo in the loop. Now, I don't actually believe this, but it's fun to think about.

That's one whopper of a theory. Lol

I think they simply stopped reporting Xbox sales because in comparison to Sony, it looks bad, even if xbox is making money.

I don't think they could ever trick apple into buying their plaform. And it seems to me that they do believe Xbox live is a means to prop up their other businesses and they lose that benefit if they dump the brand.

 

[Dougieflesh]

Reasonable people knew that they were profitable. Good luck getting into the GaaS space though with all that competition.

 

[jeffram]

I think anyone on GAF who follows the financial side of the game industry understands that the driving force behind financial growth and security in the industry is GaaS, specifically MT. Just look at EA or Activision's latest briefings. The amount of money coming in from loot boxes, skins, FUT or MUT is far greater than what you would make from a SP only games. It would be financially imprudent not to pursue GaaS. That is not to say that SP is dead and buried. There is still a market for it but it is not as lucrative as GaaS.

thats true on a game by game basis. When you are supporting a platform the portfolio needs to be broad, and give a broad audience a reason to buy it. People don't buy a platform to be monetized, they do because there is something on it they want. Now once the're in, sure find them the right software that serves as service. Microsoft needs to have a library that resonates emotionally with buyers before they can monetize the service of those games. It doesn't really make sense to me to have one GasS game after another when you have a customer base that is used to jumping from tent pole to tent pole.

 

[leeh]

No idea, but when they stopped reporting on Xbox financials by packaging it into other businesses, it was in the red. Saying it's profitable might mean it was profitable for the first time in q4 last year, or maybe it's been profitable since the one launched.

The conspiracy theorist in me is they are trumpeting the value of Xbox because they want to fetch a high price if they do sell. It's we'll know that apple is looking to get into games, and people are looking at publishers, but I think apple wants to stay out of content and get into platforms. The whole presentation seems tailored for apple. Apple as the market leader wants to drive loyalty, and now we have Microsoft talking about loyalty as the end goal and it even has an apple logo in the loop. Now, I don't actually believe this, but it's fun to think about.

"I have no idea but I'll then proceed to say things like they're the truth"

The tinfoil on your hat is mighty thick.

 

[Trup1aya]

The problem with Microsoft is if they are going to follow the same pattern as XB1, and release their first & second party offerings (and Microsoft partnership third party games) on both PC AND XBOX (like Forza 6, Halo Wars 2, Killer Instinct, ReCore, Quantum Break, Gears of War 4, etc).

What the fuck is the point in getting an XBOX gaming system, when there aren't even any fucking exclusives...and you can play Microsoft's first/second party games on your PC instead?

Microsoft can't have it's cake and eat it too....they need to pick a lane! Either (a.) release their games on XBOX AND PC for superior software sales but inferior XBOX hardware sales, or (b.) release their games only on XBOX and have superior hardware sales but inferior software sales.

If they stick to the same plan as present, they are fucked. The uber-hardcore gamers will continue on with a PS4 + PC combo (a PS4 for all of Sony's incredible PS4 exclusive games, and a PC for third party games and Microsoft's own games).

I truly don't understand why people still ask this question.

MS doesn't care which box you use to play their game. They aren't in this business to sell consoles. They are in it to sell software and services.

The Xbox console exists, so that people who prefer consoles will be buying software and services from Microsoft.

For people who don't want to play on consoles, MS can still sell them software and services on PC. And of course they profit by selling the operating system this software runs on.

By operating on console AND pc, they are increasing the total number of customers can reach.

Regardless of if a customer is are Xbox Only, PC Only, PS4+PC, or Xbox + PC, MS has an opportunity to sell him a game. This is better for them MS relying only on customers who have xboxes.

thats true on a game by game basis. When you are supporting a platform the portfolio needs to be broad, and give a broad audience a reason to buy it. People don't buy a platform to be monetized, they do because there is something on it they want. Now once the're in, sure find them the right software that serves as service. Microsoft needs to have a library that resonates emotionally with buyers before they can monetize the service of those games. It doesn't really make sense to me to have one GasS game after another when you have a customer base that is used to jumping from tent pole to tent pole.

A game can be both a tent pole AND a GaaS. Like Madden, FIFA, COD,

 

[RichiRamjag]

Which is what a lot of us here have been saying whenever doom and glooom about "selling the division" and "exiting the industry" people rear their heads

Honestly, those comments aren't even worth addressing in most cases.

 

[wapplew]

Reasonable people knew that they were profitable. Good luck getting into the GaaS space though with all that competition.

I don't think they care since other all "competition" services on Xbox need to pay them.
Who ever win, they win too.

 

[LordBaztion]

Incredible that in 2017 you still have to explain investors that gaming is not the same as the early 00s. I bet they were asking for sales numbers.
The metaverse we thing looks interesting.

 

[Guevara]

Two takeaways:

1. Microsoft seems really committed to the Xbox program; simply having Nadella and Hood there say a lot, as well as Nadella's comment that Xbox isn't just a business. At times previously, Microsoft has seemed less invested in the Xbox. They probably will be able to make a lot of money with Xbox as a social platform.

2. I'm not interested in Xbox's vision of the future.