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Musings about 2D Mario after revisiting Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES)

ScOULaris

Member
31689-super-mario-bros-3-nes-screenshot-title-screen.jpg
31693-super-mario-bros-3-nes-screenshot-world-map.jpg

With NES games being a little more in the limelight than usual right now thanks to the release of the NES Classic Mini, I've also been in a retro mood and revisiting a variety of 8- and 16-bit games on my Retropie setup. For the last few days, I've been playing through Super Mario Bros. 3 in its original release form (NES) while making use of save states in a similar fashion to how people would be revisiting it on the Classic Mini. In doing so, I'm finding myself consistently impressed with not only how well the game plays to this very day, but also how the current strain of 2D Mario releases (the "New" series, in particular) could benefit from looking back to SMB3 for inspiration beyond just mimicking its structure.

Before I dive into my little mini-analysis, let me first establish my unique history with SMB3.
For most people who got into gaming during the 8-bit era of Nintendo dominance, SMB3 was probably the pinnacle of the NES's lifecycle for them. Its release was hyped and marketed unlike any videogame to come before it, and when it finally hit store shelves it was an unqualified success critically and commercially. Everyone loved it, and most people agreed that it was not only far-and-away the best Mario game to date, but possibly the best game ever made up to that point.

For me, however... I never owned it as a kid. Being dependent on my parents to buy me games during the NES era, there were some notable holes in my tiny gaming library. I had gotten into gaming with SMB1 and I owned SMB2 as well, but for whatever reason I only ever played bits and pieces of SMB3 at friends houses and never ended up owning it myself. In fact, I wouldn't actually play all the way through SMB3 until picking up the GBA release based on the All-Stars version of the game over a decade later in college.

For all that time prior to playing through SMB3 on my DS Lite, I had always confidently held the opinion that Super Mario World was the best 2D Mario game bar-none. Sure, I new that people held SMB3 in high esteem and some even put it above SMW in their personal rankings, but I didn't think I'd ever be swayed. Well, after playing it through as an adult it suddenly became much harder for me definitively claim that SMW was the best in the 2D series. SMB3 just had so much innovation for its time, birthed so many staples of the franchise, and crammed so much content into one NES cartridge that it arguably surpasses SMW when comparing the two on all of their merits.

So that's my little SMB3 backstory, but now on to me playing through the original NES release in 2016.

First off, let me just go on record by stating that this is the best version of the game. Yes, the All-Stars version is more approachable thanks to the inclusion of saves between worlds, but the original release has a much better atmosphere and aesthetics thanks to that dark color palette and stage-play theming. A lot of that unique art style was done away with in the SNES All-Stars remake, which is a shame.


So here are some things that are jumping out to me as I play through SMB3:
  • Power-up and Lives Distribution: This is one of the first big differences between SMB3 and the post-SMW 2D Mario games that immediately struck me. Not only was SMB3 prior to the staple inclusion of the power-up reserve, which allows you to store an extra power-up should you take damage and lose yours, but it was also far stingier with power-ups in general. Throughout any given level, there will usually only be one or two power-ups maximum, and oftentimes to get some of them you will need to already be Super Mario because they will be obstructed by a brick that needs to be broken before you can get underneath them.

    The lower power-up prevalence combines with a similarly more restricted distribution of extra lives (if you don't count exploits to cheese infinite lives) to form a bedrock of 2D Mario design that still feels modern due to its polish but also more challenging/punishing than what we're used to with the NSMB series. The fact that you can't save in the original release also really makes you play less recklessly since losing all of your lives will mean starting the world over (with some things persisting). There's a weight to dying in SMB3 that I feel is lacking in pretty much every 2D Mario that came after it, but that weight is nicely counter-balanced by the next bullet point...
  • Bite-sized, challenging levels: In this post-SMW world, we're used to 2D Mario levels being pretty lengthy compared to what we see in SMB3. The introduction of checkpoints in SMW opened up the level design in terms of horizontal length, and other additions like the cape combined with fewer hardware constraints meant that levels were often expanded vertically as well. SMB3 was the last of the zoomed-in, small field-of-view Mario games, and while that was mostly a product of its time it's also kind of refreshing to see after being so used to the zoomed-out, widescreen view of the action that we get in the NSMB games. Since the perspective is so much closer to Mario with less time to react to impending threats, there's an increased tension and feeling of risk when trying to speed through a level.

    But this works fine because the levels tend to be shorter than anything we've seen post-SMW. In fact, they have more in common with the punishing-but-short level design that's common in modern indie platformers like Super Meat Boy. There's no one way to design a Mario level, but I think these shorter levels with fewer power-ups and higher penalty for death combine to form an experience that feels fresh after so many years of the newer school of 2D Mario level design.
  • World variety and scale: At this point most Mario fans have already partaken in plenty of discussion bemoaning the "safe" approach that most of the NSMB games take in terms of themed lands and common elements/assets between games. SMB3 is the polar OPPOSITE of that. Compared to what came before it, SMB3 was pretty much an avalanche of new ideas and brought with it a bold new art style that made Mario and the other Mushroom World inhabitants look like pixel-art illustrations instead of just blocky characters. In a lot of ways SMB3 reminds me of the Galaxy games in how frequently it mixes things up from level-to-level and area-to-area.

    While pretty much every 2D Mario game since SMB3 has featured a world map, I'd argue that alongside SMW the third entry presents the most interesting and varied world to explore. While SMW's map is special due to its secret exits and interconnected layout, SMB3's map impresses by virtue of how sprawling it is in totality. Of all the Mario games, SMB3's setting is the grandest in scale. It takes place in Mushroom World, and we actually get to visit various kingdoms other than the Mushroom Kingdom within that world. There's a real feeling of globetrotting in SMB3 that I'd love to see return in a future 2D Mario release.

    SMB3 also introduced the "themed land" approach that the newer entries are so fond of, but it presented the player with a lot more variety. Sure, there are desert and snow stages, but there are lots of other themed areas that we've never seen represented post-SMB3. And within each land we're treated to bite-sized levels that not only fit the theme of the area but usually introduce a new caveat or twist on the gameplay from those that came before it. There's just an abundance of variety and creativity on display here, and it's nuts that this was all crammed into an NES cart.

I think I'll stop there for now to prevent this OP from stretching on for too long. I'm in World 3 at the moment in my new playthrough, so I'll be posting more thoughts in this thread as I go along. I'm not using warp whistles because I want to see every level in the game.
 

bjork

Member
I'm not sure if I was just the right age for all the marketing to be targeted at me, but SMB3 had the biggest "big game" feel of anything from that era. There were hugely popular games, but if the NES library was a calendar year, SMB3 was the Christmas. I kinda miss that in gaming nowadays. Companies still try and push like their thing is going to be huge or whatever, and they do their numbers, but something about SMB3 was different in a really positive way. Doesn't hurt that the game is great fun, of course.
 

Aesnath

Member
I think part of the difference afterward, for better or worse, was that SMW emphasized exploration heavily, while SM3 was much more in line with the idea of rewarding exploration at times, but making it less essential. This change fundamentally altered the expectation of how the lives system worked and your ability to pick up where you left off. Notably, on the NES release, even though I knew of several secrets, not all of them were worth the trouble given that it occasionally required you to risk valuable resource. SMW isn't like that. Where SMW has some very challenging stages, and can require a lot of the player for-and-in secret levels, you tended to risk very little overall trying them. Moreover, some of the gains tended to be permanent, meaning, just barely beating it was good enough. This changes the entire flow of of the experience and how one weights risk-vs-reward. In SM3, you are rewarded for having a good mastery of early stages, so that you can conserve resources for the latter stages. That dynamic is completely missing from most subsequent SM releases.

Currently, the SMW flow has been taken to the extreme, with non-optional levels being cakewalk and the only challenge is present in optional experiences that typically require exploration. Don't get me wrong, I love SMW and a large number of the experiences that came after them. However, SM3 marks a split in how the games were made and how one plays them.
 
  • Power-up and Lives Distribution:
    The lower power-up prevalence combines with a similarly more restricted distribution of extra lives (if you don't count exploits to cheese infinite lives) to form a bedrock of 2D Mario design that still feels modern due to its polish but also more challenging/punishing than what we're used to with the NSMB series. The fact that you can't save in the original release also really makes you play less recklessly since losing all of your lives will mean starting over. There's a weight to dying in SMB3 that I feel is lacking in pretty much every 2D Mario that came after it, but that weight is nicely counter-balanced by the next bullet point...

But, losing all your lives in Mario 3 doesn't make you start over. You go back to the start of the world you're currently in and while most of the levels reset, unlocked doors stay unlocked and roaming hammer bros and things stay beaten. Especially in world 8, only a couple of the levels reset. When I originally played Mario 3, I didn't really mind losing all my lives.
 

ScOULaris

Member
I think part of the difference afterward, for better or worse, was that SMW emphasized exploration heavily, while SM3 was much more in line with the idea of rewarding exploration at times, but making it less essential. This change fundamentally altered the expectation of how the lives system worked and your ability to pick up where you left off. Notably, on the NES release, even though I knew of several secrets, not all of them were worth the trouble given that it occasionally required you to risk valuable resource. SMW isn't like that. Where SMW has some very challenging stages, and can require a lot of the player for-and-in secret levels, you tended to risk very little overall trying them. Moreover, some of the gains tended to be permanent, meaning, just barely beating it was good enough. This changes the entire flow of of the experience and how one weights risk-vs-reward. In SM3, you are rewarded for having a good mastery of early stages, so that you can conserve resources for the latter stages. That dynamic is completely missing from most subsequent SM releases.

Currently, the SMW flow has been taken to the extreme, with non-optional levels being cakewalk and the only challenge is present in optional experiences that typically require exploration. Don't get me wrong, I love SMW and a large number of the experiences that came after them. However, SM3 marks a split in how the games were made and how one plays them.

Well said. You further elaborated on the unique feeling of resource scarcity and conservation (in the way of items and lives) that I'm getting from SMB3 after years of playing modern 2D Mario games. I honestly don't think I've feared death in any 2D Mario game post-SMW, so it's refreshing to actually be wary of enemies and hazards because deaths come quick and lives are hard to come by. You really have to plan ahead and use stored items intelligently if you're trying to do a whistle-free playthrough.
 

ScOULaris

Member
But, losing all your lives in Mario 3 doesn't make you start over. You go back to the start of the world you're currently in and while most of the levels reset, unlocked doors stay unlocked and roaming hammer bros and things stay beaten. Especially in world 8, only a couple of the levels reset. When I originally played Mario 3, I didn't really mind losing all my lives.

Oh, thanks for the clarification. I've updated the OP.

I haven't quite lost all of my lives yet thanks to save states, so I was misremembering the consequence of losing them all.
 
I never had trouble collecting lives in SMB3. Getting the Star card at the end of each level is usually very easy, as were the toad minigames. I always had a ton of lives by the end. There were definitely less power-ups, but lives were plentiful.
 
This has been my favourite Mario since I was first introduced to it on the gba. I'm too young to remember the release, but it always felt different from the others to me. It felt faster, tenser, and more dynamic to me than SMW and that appealed. Your bullet points put words to a lot of that.

Really, though, the tanooki suit plus p speed just makes for some of the most fun and fast platforming in the series, something that has really been properly emulated.
 
Back in 1991 after completing SMW and getting over the new abilities of the Super Famicom I realized that Mario 3 is the better game. Years later the internet agrees. Mario 3 just has more imaginative level design, where SMW has more levels but they are just cookie cutter in most cases.
 
I could never get into SMB3. I like SMW and NSMBU a lot better.

I'm not really sure why, but I never grew up with it and only played it way later with the Wii VC release. Something about the color palette always bothered me. I don't really like hitting a hard stage, losing all my lives, and having to redo several stages just to get back to the stage I was stuck on. I don't mind hard stages at all, but needed to do multiple stages over again if you fail 3-4 times in a row is too harsh of a time punishment.
 
I could never get into SMB3. I like SMW and NSMBU a lot better.

I'm not really sure why, but I never grew up with it and only played it way later with the Wii VC release. Something about the color palette always bothered me. I don't really like hitting a hard stage, losing all my lives, and having to redo several stages just to get back to the stage I was stuck on. I don't mind hard stages at all, but needed to do multiple stages over again if you fail 3-4 times in a row is too harsh of a time punishment.

I mean, one of the ideas behind the extra lives system is that you don't just get to bang your head against a level unlimited times until you beat it.

You actually have to develop skills and make it to that level with resources from playing the previous levels, then apply that growth to beating the later levels.

If you're dying "3-4 times in a row" and then getting a game over, it's because you didn't successfully collect and retain lives from the previous levels. This is never a problem in later Mario games because you're spoonfed lives and can always replay older levels to get more. There's basically no point in ever having a death state in those games.
 
Back in 1991 after completing SMW and getting over the new abilities of the Super Famicom I realized that Mario 3 is the better game. Years later the internet agrees. Mario 3 just has more imaginative level design, where SMW has more levels but they are just cookie cutter in most cases.

I mostly agree with this.

My biggest problem with SMW is the cape, and the ability to skip most of the level by infinitely bobbing above it. The raccoon suit is pretty much better in every way, including originality.

I still love SMW but Mario 3 buries it in most categories.
 

maxcriden

Member
Great write-up, thank you! I'm curious, have you played all of the NSMB games? NSMB2 in particular has focused, bite-sized levels more akin to SMB3 than any other post-SMB3 games.
 

ScOULaris

Member
Great write-up, thank you! I'm curious, have you played all of the NSMB games? NSMB2 in particular has focused, bite-sized levels more akin to SMB3 than any other post-SMB3 games.

I have played all of the NSMB games through to completion with the exception of NSMB2. I only played like two worlds into NSMB2 when I briefly owned a 3DS before swapping it out for a Vita a year or so ago.

That's cool that it featured similarly small, focused levels though. I remember feeling like it played well but felt a bit rushed and uninspired otherwise. I think that was the general consensus about NSMB2, since there was already starting to be some NSMB-series fatigue by that point. Using the exact same art assets, physics, enemies, items, and general level designs in every freakin' NSMB game is just the worst. We were really spoiled by the 8- and 16-bit entries always changing things up with each new game.

I've heard that Super Luigi U features short, speedrunning-centric levels too. I need to check that out sometime.
 
Very good writeup and fun to read. But I do have a quibble with this part:

[*]World variety and scale: At this point most Mario fans have already partaken in plenty of discussion bemoaning the "safe" approach that most of the NSMB games take in terms of themed lands and common elements/assets between games. SMB3 is the polar OPPOSITE of that. Compared to what came before it, SMB3 was pretty much an avalanche of new ideas and brought with it a bold new art style that made Mario and the other Mushroom World inhabitants look like pixel-art illustrations instead of just blocky characters.

4c526c950fcf4680b535131e91d0de7d.jpg


I'd argue that SMB2 was the one that had the bold art style. Characters look great, enemies look great. Mario actually has white in his eyes, very cartoony. Though, SMB2 pretty much cribbed it right from Doki Doki Panic, so...
 
What I love about Mario 3 the most is the feeling of variety.

Levels are short, so you're never stuck doing one thing at one place for very long.
The map has a bunch of Hammer Bros., Toad houses, and minigames to break up the action and (in the Hammer Bros. case) to provide an element of surprise.
You'll get other random things on the map appear occasionally, like the card flipping game, or the very rare coin ship and hidden Toad house.
There are a ton of powerups (the suits, P-wing, etc.) and some very interesting map items (like the jukebox and cloud) that keeps your inventory looking well stocked.

Basically, it feels like the game never lets you get bored. There's always something new around the corner, and you are always doing something different every minute or two.


The other thing I like is that the secrets in the game actually feel worthwhile. In newer Mario games, it isn't fun to go into a pipe just to get 1-ups or coins, and it isn't as fun to go into a pipe to get a secret coin that you were looking for anyway. It IS fun, however, to go into a secret and find a suit that's really hard to find, or a warp whistle or something like that.
 

ScOULaris

Member
Very good writeup and fun to read. But I do have a quibble with this part:



4c526c950fcf4680b535131e91d0de7d.jpg


I'd argue that SMB2 was the one that had the bold art style. Characters look great, enemies look great. Mario actually has white in his eyes, very cartoony. Though, SMB2 pretty much cribbed it right from Doki Doki Panic, so...

Yeah, that's true. I guess I just discounted it since SMB3 was the big, proper sequel to SMB1 given that 90% of SMB2's assets were from a completely different game.
 
Yeah, that's true. I guess I just discounted it since SMB3 was the big, proper sequel to SMB1 given that 90% of SMB2's assets were from a completely different game.
Yeah, you're not wrong. It's just a weird situation to skip over SMB1 to SMB3, though there is justification for it.

I do wonder how much of SMB3 was influenced by how good Mario looked in SMB2. Probably a lot, looking at the two side by side.
 

maxcriden

Member
But, losing all your lives in Mario 3 doesn't make you start over. You go back to the start of the world you're currently in and while most of the levels reset, unlocked doors stay unlocked and roaming hammer bros and things stay beaten. Especially in world 8, only a couple of the levels reset. When I originally played Mario 3, I didn't really mind losing all my lives.

You still have to leave the system on though to retain that progress, right? What with no saving.
 
I do wonder how much of SMB3 was influenced by how good Mario looked in SMB2. Probably a lot, looking at the two side by side.

Probably not at all, given that Super Mario Bros. 2 came out in the US less than a month before Super Mario Bros. 3 did in Japan.

If anything, I bet the inspiration went in the other direction, with SMB2 inheriting assets from SMB3 and sprucing them up based on the palette in that game.
 

petran79

Banned
It was the pinnacle of 2d platformers.

One issue I had was that it was difficult not because of difficult level design but because of length. Despite the level variety, the ones I preferred playing the most were the most difficult and tense as well: World 8 and the also difficult Ice World. Few times I even reached Bowser with the Hammer Bros suit, which could be found only once in Ice World.

I wouldnt mind that kind of difficulty but with less level design.SMB1 had a better balance in difficulty. Though Super Mario Land ground levels were the hardest Mario game I played, due to the GB screen and controls.

SMB3 is very easy in most levels and very hard just in two worlds.

Never played SNES Mario games. But it seems they abandoned the arcadey roots of NES Marios,adding save, tutorials and slowing down gameplay
 

maxcriden

Member
I could never get into SMB3. I like SMW and NSMBU a lot better.

I'm not really sure why, but I never grew up with it and only played it way later with the Wii VC release. Something about the color palette always bothered me. I don't really like hitting a hard stage, losing all my lives, and having to redo several stages just to get back to the stage I was stuck on. I don't mind hard stages at all, but needed to do multiple stages over again if you fail 3-4 times in a row is too harsh of a time punishment.

I think you might enjoy the GBA and NES Classic versions a lot better. Save states to save after completing a level take some of the frustration away and allow you to avoid that feeling of punishment you described. Weve been playing SMB1-3 on NES Classic and if we didn't use save states it would just take too much longer for us. I say this as someone who didn't grow up with it either and agrees with your feelings above. (NSMB games do have half this mechanic with only letting you save up to towers or castles on your first playthrough, but lives are more plentiful and levels are generally easier, so as you indicated, it's not the same thing--I totally agree.)
 

PSqueak

Banned
But, losing all your lives in Mario 3 doesn't make you start over. You go back to the start of the world you're currently in and while most of the levels reset, unlocked doors stay unlocked and roaming hammer bros and things stay beaten. Especially in world 8, only a couple of the levels reset. When I originally played Mario 3, I didn't really mind losing all my lives.

I loved this bit about SMB3, because it enhances the stakes of losing all your lives and ups the rewards for completing certain objectives.

Finishing a fortress felt more of an acomplishment because the fortress would remain destroyed even if you got a game over, still getting a game over wasn't desired because it would reset all the levels your character completed, which by the way added a new element to multiplayer, if mario got a game over, all the levels completed by mario would reset, but those compelted by luigi would remain cleared.

It also played well with the dynamic elements on the map, if you reached the world's castle and lost a life there, the doom ship would roam around the map, if you got a game over, the doomship would still roam the map, so you wouldn't need to clear all levels again to reach it, but now every time you fail the doomship level there is a risk it would roam behind a uncleared level.

Roaming monsters (hammer bros) also abound and the best part is the arenas would change depending where on the map you fight them, so if they're standing in water tiles in World 3, the battlefield would have water, otherwise it would be on land.

No other mario game has had this level of dynamism in the map.
 
Probably not at all, given that Super Mario Bros. 2 came out in the US less than a month before Super Mario Bros. 3 did in Japan.

If anything, I bet the inspiration went in the other direction, with SMB2 inheriting assets from SMB3 and sprucing them up based on the palette in that game.
Heh, the more you know!
 

ScOULaris

Member
No other mario game has had this level of dynamism in the map.

Yeah, great points. While many 2D Mario games have world maps, the one in SMB3 really feels like a "world" rather that just a graphical backdrop for a level selector. Those little details that you mentioned really add up.

For what it's worth, I thought that the NSMBU map was the best in a long time, even if it still can't hold a candle to the one in SMB3 for the reasons you outlined. It was at least a step back in the direction of making the map somewhat interesting again.
 
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